Za Shaloc.3908

Not sure of the full scope of your limitations but just as an FYI there are keybinds for allied targeting. Maybe you could bind them to your mouse buttons?

Lol. Haven't you made these posts for the other especs before they even become playable? At this point I am convinced you are memeing.

For Mutate Conditions: Reduce the condis cleansed to 4 and give it 2 charges IMO.

Please. Now that it is a legit mechanic thanks to Specter, it would be a huge buff to a lackluster weapon. Druid CA 1 maybe too?

In theory, this is everything I was hoping for Thief: scepter, shadow magic, allied support, more skills (via transform), a beautiful shade of purple...I even love the name as well. In practice? Not gonna fall trap to the hype train again after the last 2 rounds of specs and am expecting it to be lackluster. Hope to be proven wrong because this is like my dream spec just based on the trailer.

Alternatively, I would be happy if they simply introduced a bunch more 3- and 4-stat sets to the game to allow for further optimization and customization for builds. After they buffed Cele, I honestly don't think anything is off the table. There are certain 3-stat sets now that are completely eclipsed by Cele now and it's a shame. When theorycrafting, it feels like you should take it for almost any build if you aren't running Mara, Zerk, Minstrel, or Trailblazer. There's not much fun in that when you can get so much value in Cele rather than picking and choosing old 3-stat sets to make the perfect build. Feels like the illusion of choice to a certain extent.

Out of curiosity, what Ele build are you talking about that can do all of that? The only possible one I can think of is Fire Weaver, but what you are saying sounds a bit hyperbolic. Cele do be like that.

Renegade was straight up trash in PvP/WvW in the beta. They also had some questionable design decisions, like the stunbreak being on the heal IIRC. Didn't play during any of the HoT betas so I can't tell you. Vindicator is messy and needs work, but I still largely prefer it to beta Renegade. There are certain design philosophies that really made me lose faith in ANet's approach to balance, such as allowing for permanent 10-man Alacrity with the press of 1 button. Shortbow is fun to play now (mostly because its braindead easy in WvW), but Renegade was a major low point for me as a Rev main. I have more faith in what Vindicator can be after they spend more time on it. But hey, this is all just my opinion.

I believe the Slam Urn effect does affect the caster? No way to test it now but I thought I remember tracking my combat log for this purpose specifically. I was thinking that adding a single stack of stability to Slam Urn would be a potential solution too, but at the same time I'm not the biggest fan of the idea simply because it feels like a bit of a copout approach to the whole mechanic. Similar to how I feel with a skill like Glyph of Stars for Druid getting stab; it feels like the skill would be getting success/ease handed to it too directly, if that makes any sense.

I was thinking that could work too, but at the same time, it makes sense for Slam Urn to require a cast time as it grants bonus effects. To me that is a fair trade-off, in theory. It functions like a pseudo-Facet so I think it is correct for the Slam to have a cast time. Yeah, I think the Slam Urn functionality is really neat on paper. However, I think from a practical approach, it is a bit more complicated. Personally, I love that the skill has risks to using it, and I would like for that to remain as it is a balance philosophy that the game does not practice enough. I think it would be nice to have the bonus effect granted while dodging with Urn active instead of the Slam functionality, as that would be a nice halfway point between Slam and a more practical approach--as well as a way of integrating the enhanced dodges into the kit to make it a bit more complex. You are rewarded for making a combo, but not put at total risk to behind focused/CC'd while in competitive modes if you decide to activate it. I was thinking Aegis could be a nice addition for the kit as well. IMO, Battle Dance would be a nice fit for it; AoE aegis would make the skill *much* stronger as it is currently rather weak/clunky. I think it fits just fine with Saint Viktor, the problem is that you are forced to take both legends. Just like Urn feels useless on DPS builds in most scenarios, Spear of Archemorus feels useless on pure healing builds that have no DPS investment. I don't think this is a matter of the skills being bad, but moreso a matter of how the alliance swapping works for Vindicator in its current form. Would prefer that they polish up how the alliance swapping works rather than try to spread Urn into too many directions.

I would like to start a thread regarding Urn of Saint Viktor because it is probably one of the worst received skills I have ever seen based on the feedback in the Rev subforum. I am in what seems to be the minority, in that I actually see a ton of potential in the skill and would really like for it be polished rather than scrapped/reworked. Despite its flaws, I still found a lot of success with the skill. Not going to lie, it did get me killed a couple times too, but that will be outlined later. First, I would argue that it feels bad for people largely because of how the Alliance legend and legend-flipping mechanic function. As a DPS, having to rotate urn into your rotation in order to get back to Spear is not only dangerous, but also requires a large cast time and a significant amount of energy. Second, the urn feels particularly punishing because of both the ~1.7s ICD and the 1s cast time to slam it. You can't just simply pulse it. You have to wait nearly 2 seconds and then risk a whole second cast time. Third, the health threshold bonuses are not that great and feel unrewarding due to the inherent risks of the skill combined with the above reasons. Now, what abouts its benefits? The damage reduction bonus felt difficult to profit from due to reason #2, but the healing it pumps out is extremely good. The fact that the activation is instant is a huge deal, as you can very easily layer it with other heals, as well as cast it mid-dodge. There is an absolute ton of potential burst healing with this. When executed successfully, it felt really nice. But, IMO its beta iteration dug too far into the drawbacks. So...some suggestions: - Lower its upkeep to 8. - Change the 0% incoming healing to 0% incoming healing from allies only. The urn shouldn't heal you, but make it so you can still use your other healing skills and profit from it. - Increase its radius to 300. - Remove the Slam flipover skill. There isn't much payoff and it makes the skill feel like a total liability to use. - Reduce the ICD from toggling it off by 1s to normalize it with other upkeep skills. All core legends have around a .7s ICD and all facets have no ICD; meanwhile Slam Urn has around a ~1.7s ICD. Without alacrity and quickness, you are forced to eat 3 ticks of damage if you are simply trying to pulse it, which is significant as you are also negating any healing. - If the skill feels like it lacks identity, make it grant an additional slam-like effect if dodging while the urn is active. Give it some extra healing, some barrier, or some boons to have it function somewhat like Embrace the Darkness. Currently the dodge mechanic and Alliance legend feel like they were randomly smushed together; there is not much complexity added. It would be nice to have the special dodges feel like they were better integrated together. What are your thoughts on the skill? What do you think could improve it?

Give the trait the underwater Vindi dodge animation, yes yes.

1. Well sure if you are speaking in terms of a DPS build that is at the very least partially correct. Alliance felt worse on DPS builds for sure. However, this conversation is about a support Vindicator build. I played with both Alliance/Jalis and Alliance/Ventari and was partial to the Ventari variant. You could run Ventari/Jalis for sure but I found Alliance to be quite strong and I wouldnt want to swap it out tbh. I also preferred running GS as my secondary weapon because having a second mobile block is very strong, and when GS3 gets fixed, a 900 range dash will be wonderful as well. 2. Well, I don't think it is fair to really say a build is bad based off what we can assume is a bug. Getting CC'd mid-dodge felt really horrible and whatnot, but I am trying not to factor that in considering it should be fixed. And yeah, they could clean up the aftercast/immob portion of the dodge for sure too; IIRC it is slower than a normal dodge which should not be the case. However, despite this I still found the build to be better than support Herald/Renegade. I was able to be considerably more aggressive with my playstyle which I found to be quite enjoyable. If you take Jalis you are quite resilient to CCs as the stunbreaks in Alliance are actually both very good. If you take Ventari...well that is moreso a Ventari issue than a Vindicator issue, so I wouldn't say Vindi is more CC-able since you have access to more dodges, more mobility, and a second mobile block.

Was really hoping for Svanir myself.

Well, this is indeed in WvW with full Minstrel's. Have been running 3/2/3 in Salv with Monk's/Transference. So yes, a lot of this is considering the outgoing healing modifiers, which is still a factor regardless. Are the coefficients weak? Absolutely, but that doesn't make the spec's potential itself weak in actual practice. I don't disagree with you about the offensive capabilities, by the way. I am simply enjoying its surprising support capabilities while they are here. I fully agree that its offense should be tuned up and was surprised they leaned so heavy into the support aspect of this entire e-spec. At the same time, I do think it's disingenuous for others to say that both Herald & Renegade are "support" specs when they are hybridized just like this one.

Bunny Saint, that's really cute. And yes, I agree that it is actually quite effective! I definitely wouldn't call it meta by any means, but I would say it is above the performance of heal Herald & Renegade. At least it has felt like that way for me (I feel I can keep allies alive better). @Infusion.7149 the SV heal can heal ~2k/tick and even though the urn is a death sentence, it still can pump healing. The dodges are nothing to scoff at considering it can be a 4k heal and 2.3k barrier per dodge, and you can do a rotation like dodge > legend swap for energy proc > dodge > F2 > dodge while also double-rotating your SV skills for massive support. The legend actually has insane healing, honestly more than Ventari since one dodge will give you about the same value as one Natural Harmony. Even Tree Song @ 5 condis will heal for over 10k. Being able to heal while in SV means you can save more of your energy in Ventari for cleansing and using your bubble, which is really nice. Is it on the level of FB/Scrapper? Nah? Tempest? Nah. But it certainly is quite good and the most effective I have ever felt on a Rev in terms of pure support. You can swap Ventari out for Jalis of course for the roads & rites but SV/Ventari does actually feel legit nice despite the issues Ventari runs into. But yeah, being CC'd mid-dodge feels absolutely horrible. @Knighthonor.4061the Saint's Shield dodge will 100% be nerfed because it allows for bunkering. I just hope that they increase coefficients on it (considering it is THE healing dodge) and other some of the other skills in order to make it more worthy to invest healing power.

I'm going to focus my post on the support aspect of it as that is all I have played of it. Numbers-wise, the Saint Viktor skills feel great. Having 2k ticks on Sefless Spirit feels really amazing. Tree Song is incredibly potent if used at 5 condis (getting 10k heal procs from it in WvW). Urn's healing is nice to have despite its drawbacks. It is also amazing to have a group stunbreak. Not to mention the dodge and its mega value. The additional 20% modifier makes heal Rev feel a bit more like its old self in WvW. These are all really valuable tools that fit wonderfully into a support spec. I would be stoked if I could take just a simple Saint Viktor legend, or to be able to pick and choose...though I feel like that would be the lazy way out. The whole dual legend thing is just odd. The biggest upside I have felt to the mechanic is using the SV heal on allies and then using F2 to be able to use it again in 10 seconds. Otherwise, it felt meh. Throughout my whole playtime, it felt like I was just throwing away energy to cycle through skills to get to the ones I wanted. I particular, Scavenger Burst and Spear of Archemorus. I don't think that is good design, to force skills to be wasted...especially when they cost energy and incur a cooldown. I also found myself camping the Alliance legend a lot in order to wait for the cooldowns to come up, which seems to to against the intended vision of Revenant, which is shorter cooldowns with a playstyle meant to be optimized by swapping legends very frequently. I would like to give some positive feedback regarding Urn of Saint Viktor because all I have seen is scathingly negative comments about it. Is it perfect? Far from it, but it does have potential and I would like to have it improved upon rather than be completely scrapped. So here are a few ideas. Lower its upkeep to 8. Change the 0% incoming healing to 0% incoming healing from allies only. The urn shouldn't heal you but make it so you can still use your heal skill and able to profit from it. Increase its radius to 300. Remove the Slam flipover skill. There isn't much payoff and it makes the skill feel like a total liability to use. If the skill feels like it lacks identity, make it grant an additional slam-like effect if dodging while the urn is active. If you are absolutely insistent on keeping the Slam flipover skill in the game, reduce the cast time by a bit and remove the ICD it has after activating the urn. All core legends have around a .7s ICD and all facets have no ICD; meanwhile Slam Urn has around a ~1.7s ICD. Without alacrity and quickness, you are forced to eat 3 ticks of damage if you are simply trying to pulse it, which is significant as you are also negating any healing. Now some other feedback... Alliance Tactics feels half-baked. Feels like they should be separated so your energy isn't punished so much for wanting to access the other Alliance legend. I also agree with others that it is odd that it favors the Alliance Stance so much. I read a post from somebody suggesting that instead of the F2 swapping the Alliance skills, there could instead be a flipover skill lasting for X seconds after using an Alliance skill that will have you swap skills; otherwise your current skill will persist. I quite liked that idea (Ex: You use Tree Song and for 3 seconds after using it, you have the option of flipping it over to grant access to Scavenger Burst. If you don't use it within 3s, the flipover skill will disappear and you will stay on Tree Song). The aftercast and vulnerability frames in the dodge makes it feel less good. Assuming that the vuln frames are an oversight. As I have mentioned in a previous post, please reduce ALL dodges to 50 endurance and adjust their effects accordingly. All of the master traits feel like different iterations of the same thing. Literally just delete/consolidate Reaver's Curse & Angsiyan's Trust and introduce another more offensive option. Why does Redemptor's Sermon exist? You balance devs have spoken so much about wanting to remove passive gameplay and this trait is exactly that and you are introducing it to be released in 2022! It adds no depth to the class, hogs up a trait slot, and is conditional based on health despite being arguably more important for the condition cleanse aspect. 2 traits are dedicated exclusively to the Legendary Alliance Stance. What happened to not wanting to obviously favor a specific legend within a traitline? I get there should be strong synergy for the e-spec's corresponding legend, but the traits should not be completely useless if using only core legends. Glint upkeep traits are actually well designed because they still bring major value to the core legends as the upkeeps are a key component to each legend. The animations are very low effort. Very lackluster visual effects. Skill icons across the board lack detail/depth. Trait icon background colors are inconsistent with both previous e-specs. Poor 'ol Saint Viktor that appears after his urn is slammed on the ground looks like a derpy stretched out Catmander tag. The legend swap image is a straight up insult to artistic integrity and an absolute eyesore to behold. Since when was this game's visual taste geared towards 6 year olds? **looks at Magic weapons** Oh wait... Okay, I may be a bit harsh on the visual aspect of it, but I am a judgmental art snob so I can't help myself. And hey, we had neon ravekittens for our last legend, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Long story short, I think the spec has potential, but it needs a lot of iteration. It feels like an alpha version of the spec. God bless whoever decided to delay EoD release date, because if y'all actually released EoD in Q4 2021, the e-specs would be a dumpsterfire of half-baked disappointment.

Dodging immediately after dismounting will consume endurance but not cause a dodge (tested only with Saint of zu Heltzer trait) You cannot dodge while rezzing an ally (tested only with Saint of zu Heltzer trait) When using Spear of Archemorus, Archemorus will face the way you are facing when it completes the cast, not towards the target. (Example: if cast while running away from a target, it will face the same direction you are facing, and the spear will go backwards towards the target) Phantom's Onslaught will only move you ~300-400 units. It will only move you further if you are somewhere around ~600-700 units from the target when using it. Any more and it will still bug out. Not sure if this is a bug or not, but Urn of Saint Viktor will still slam on the ground with the image of Saint Viktor even if you don't use Slam Urn of Saint Viktor. This occurs if you run out of energy and also if you swap out of the legend while using it. Urn of Saint Viktor will persist on your skill bar if you use Alliance Tactics with it active. This may also be intended.

Honestly I wish they would just make each dodge cost 50 endurance and last the same amount of time as Saint's Shield. 150 endurance is just absurd for a single dodge. Adjust the numbers on the effects and call it good.

The spec is...interesting to say the least. Played most of last night and I can tell you right now, the dodge spam is 100% going to get nerfed because of its bunker potential. Unfortunate because it is carrying the spec a lot and it feels really good to have a strong support skill. I was starting to enjoy myself by the end of it as I began to develop muscle memory for it. Monkeyed around on Ventari/Alliance full Minstrel support. Not to say that I think the spec is well designed or in a good spot; it felt like its success was defined by cheesing dodges. Regardless it was the most effective I have ever felt as a support Rev in WvW. I was having to waste a lot of energy to get to the skills I needed to or to use F2, which I found unsatisfying and unintuitive. A lot of skills felt clunky to me. I personally actually quite liked playing with the urn, but that is probably because I was playing a dumb Minstrel tank build and had barrier for days to cover for the health loss. Got some good healing from it and it's nice that it is instant cast so you can toggle it on with other heal skills to get some real good numbers. Will comment a more thorough critique later at some point but in general I both liked it and disliked it. I do think a lot about it needs work though.

Can we take a moment to talk about how absolute trash the Alliance legend swap image above the player is? Looks like a couple of some knock off 25cent gundams. Where is the taste?

Y'all killin my hype while I'm at work after reading all this lol.

Rev also has the luxury of benefitting from sigil procs via legend swap, which will make it easier to maintain a proper rhythm while gaining dodges from energy sigil. IMO this is a pretty big deal and a big reason as to why this isn't a doom-and-gloom situation. At this point, I am considering actually running dual energy sigil so I can guarantee that the proc will always happen at some point. Idk, we will see. Glad to hear you are excited about it. You on NA or EU? But yeah axe is a really great weapon, even now. I think offhand sword just outshines it in general because of the flexibility/versatility of sword 5. But there have been plenty of situations when roaming axe fares better. Axe 4 is truly so incredibly underrated. I am wondering too if power roaming builds will be able to get away with not using Shiro. Surely the mobility is not AS good on Alliance, but if running GS instead of staff, the mobility from GS3 will help alleviate that, and Jalis has a lot to offer and would complement the teamfight nature of Alliance. Am thinking Ret/Invo/Vindi Jalis/Alliance could make a nice roaming build.

I have so many ideas. Probably gonna try to no-life this week and record some footage. The ones I am excited for the most are Alliance/Jalis and Alliance/Ventari supports. A couple things I am curious about is how Charged Mists will feel/flow the legend, and if GS will provide enough defense to replace staff. I suspect it may which is super hype. If that is the case I will probably swap offhand sword for axe on power builds so I can get back some CC.

Ask in a week. It is only speculation at this point with us not having access to it.