Gotejjeken.1267

So for those keeping score at home we have: - Trevor's 1K gold challenge to whoever can beat a celestial druid build - Hobo takes up the offer but is on EU, challenge issuer refuses to transfer from NA to EU - Tink organizes the duel and also facilitates Hobo transfer from EU to NA - Pre duel: there are many complaints by Trevor regarding how the F key works, starting distances, and also food (this will later be seen as toxicity) - Duel begins, Trevor kites endlessly and ragequits - Forums call Trevor out on this - Trevor starts talking about toxicity and disqualifying people (to explain the ragequit) also gets angry at Tink for literally creating content for the Twitch channel by facilitating transfer - Forums call Trevor out on this - Bigo offers to be a challenger - Trevor claims to be setting something up with Bigo but also claims that this entire thing was a giant troll to get traffic for his Twitch (probably the only honest thing said thusfar); also claims to be the savior of forum activity via trolling

You can't even stop posting in a topic you said you were going to stop posting in seven posts ago...yikes.

Six (large) posts later... Which normally is nitpicky, but the foundation of the topic is this: Then we have: When the entire topic was about disputing this. In fact, it started off as 'even in 1vX' (meaning always better in 1v1) and 'will out brawl' which later somehow morphed into 'celestial druid loses to tanky soulbeast in 1v1' and 'will out kite'--surely you can see why we're all confused here? No matter what spin, the foundations weren't proved. At the most neutral level this ended in a stalemate so we actually have no idea which side would have won. It's two tank builds and one is actively running from the other, that could take hours to see who makes a mistake or wins via attrition--that isn't fluff, it literally is what it is.

I know I (and guessing most others here) want to see a conclusion to this 'cele druid is unkillible' debacle. I personally would be very interested to see what happens when a CC / power spec faces it; preferably in an area without a ton of LoS blocks as we'll have the same thing all over again (i.e. sorry you didn't realize walls blocked projectiles man). Anyway, about toxicity--maybe it'd be best if your char wasn't literally named 'gank' if you wanted a chill game experience 🤔

Why do I get the feeling another GW2 'legend' is going to be born in this topic? This is why people hate Twitch though, anyone can stream on it, and when they stream they automatically get a certain arrogance from 'being a streamer'. It means jack all though, because this whole thing was a setup for bad content--but at least the streamer got some laughs out of it? At least I think...from watching the footage it did seem Trevor was a bit confused at times: "how do I enter?" "press F" "how" "he has ascended food, oh no no no, ascended food is OP---hey you, USE REGULAR FOOOD" "stay close to me so this is more even" *finds out no LB* "oh...huh" So really, what is the point of all this except to ruin credibility? Because now every time I see the name I'm gonna remember this 'challenge' 😄. As in "remember the time that guy made an ambiguous challenge for views and someone actually paid to make it happen and he ended it early to avoid losing?"

I mentioned some of my issue in that streamer wars topic but, I think my overall issue with MH axe is it has tools but none of them work as well as other weapons. We have: Axe #1 - Ricochets and grants might; nothing a LB won't do at greater range and faster (if you use sigil of rage for instance); LB won't ricochet but it will pierce with MM Axe #2 - Applies bleeds; nothing a SB won't do but faster--can stack 10 bleed with sharpening stone and axe #2, can do this with sharpening stone, sb #2 and a few autos (or use crippling shot and have your pet apply some for you)--in addition you get poison with shortbow Axe #3 - Unique, the only really standout thing about MH axe If we extend to offhand: Axe #4 - Useless, but even so both concussion shot and PBS do a better job at overall utility Axe #5 - Biggest problem is being immobile while casting, otherwise works fine. Still outclassed by barrage and if you want rather immobile damage maul (4-5 second channel to get to 8-10k damage vs. one hit, if it hits lol). I don't really want to mention MH Dagger as as far as I'm concerned it has zero redeeming qualities. But for OH Dagger: Dagger #4 - This would be plenty serviceable if they'd give the range back from offhand training; as is pretty much anything is better for kiting (sword is closest but serpent strike just has more evade frames) Dagger #5 - Outclassed by crippling shot mostly--can be fine though, it's a toss up with torch really for me as burning field tends to do more with less telegraph (you aren't throwing it like you unfortunately are with torch #4) Anyway, I've personally been trying to theorycraft something with axe for forever now. I've tried replacing shortbow in my druid build with both Axe/Dagger and Axe/Wh (taking BM instead of WS)--neither of which really give me full utility that a shortbow does. Like axe will stack some nice stuff + chill, but reapplication is a pain and pressure is non-existent. Think axe would be dope if it would remove a boon on the #1 with a certain ICD. Then you'd have something super unique for ranger because you could strip boons in an area. Overall that would make it good for me, and then OH axe just need to entirely rework axe #4 (to be more like prelude lash) and axe #5 to be cast while moving (I can hear the forum cries from miles as an army of rangers runs into a zerg whirling away).

Yeah, of course the forums doesn't want this touched. Engi has been a 'bad player with easy win buttons' for a long, long time now.

It really is--it has no pressure and has nothing a shortbow can't do far, far better (aside from the chill). Even OH axe is a gimmick, yeah #5 can do a lot of damage if you get caught with prelude lash--but as we see here that damage is very easily negated by moving away from the whirling defense. No one uses the #4 on OH axe because it is terrible and has been since inception. On the Druid build in specific, axe is far worse than using shortbow; I get why it was used here (because celestial), but it really doesn't work at all. I don't really need to prove that either when there's enough content on that Twitch channel to clearly see why it doesn't work.

Let's not also overlook the fact the streamer (i.e. the one benefiting from this through views) would not transfer to EU with own funds or would not finance said transfer to NA. So I can see why hobo would be a bit steamed here.

Yeah after watching that I think Fastcar has definitely been training Trevor lol. Anyway, I have two issues with it: Hobo showing up with a tanky SB build with a single hittable CC skill (prelude lash) was never going to kill this Druid. It doesn't mean this Druid is unkillable or good, it means that you'd essentially need to build for CC so he can't just run like that. The wager was never 'until someone gets bored', there were only time limits in place to stop the running fiesta or it was implied it'd be a loss. Also I see no switching of builds allowed here, because I think Trevor knows what I said above is correct, and if Hobo would have switched to a more CC oriented build he'd be done. If anything this has proved that MH axe indeed is awful, and inevitably someone is going to go try this celestial build thinking it's good when this 'fight' was about as engineered into a favorable situation as one could get (including 1984 levels of double speak).

Builds tweaks / discussion aside, this captures the essence I think. Essentially for us rangers to do the damage people complain about we cannot run any defensive traitline (WS/NM). If we do run WS/NM then the sustain of practically any other spec is equal or better so nothing is accomplished. So there IS skill play in 'pew pew'ing' from range, because you have to know positioning very, very well or you are useless. The problem is even if you have the best positioning in the world there is that one scrapper or guardian firing off every defensive stat in the game and running right by without a care in the world. Then (this is a PUG problem) your group goes chasing them and none of them have the damage to take out the sustain so you get nothing done.

Wait, you want all these nonsensical changes because of some terribad backline Elementalist casting meteor shower? This is why we can't have nice things. I swear, I don't know what scares awful players more, ancient seeds or longbow. I can tell you good players don't care about either of these things and they don't do anything outside of picking off stragglers. I wonder if it's the stragglers that always come to the forums? I mean, in the past day while roaming I've fought a berserker who stayed in my immobs for all of 1/4 of a second, a scrapper who is literally immune to the immobs and on top throws up projectile blocks with superspeed, and if that goes wrong just goes into mini-mode and becomes immune to literally everything, and a reaper who if I dare pull out LB would just port to me and destroy. Anyway, the 'inverted damage' on LB is the best--sure let's not fix shortbow (which is meant to be close range and also suffers from projectile blocking issues), let's essentially make longbow a melee weapon (lol) because people can't seem to find the dodge key or a line of sight. Trust me, you don't need inverted anything, if you are squishy I'm killing you regardless with GS. Unless you want to 'invert' that too and I could throw it again, would be great. Also, are you saying pets improve damage options more than past years? I hope not or you need to go read some patch notes, it's walls of text like this that got pets neutered to window pane licking CC devices. In the 'days of old' you'd be dead in about 30 seconds while standing on a wall from a stealth attack via jaguar. So I think what you really mean is 'pets are ignored above because they suck so much I have nothing to complain about' 😂

If you are getting rek'd by a condi SB just wait until you meet a good reaper....

lol, I was actually thinking Trevor was a Fastcar alt for a while until I heard him talk Anyway, I hope this match happens, Tink Tink definitely the real hero here

Pure irony considering a Twitch streamer started this thread.

I feel like this argument is pretty specific to classes that were built to CC without a second thought about how broken both CC and damage at once is. We can have this, but I want a tradeoff that if I'm at range it cannot be blocked; can just say 'use your gap closers' when the complaints roll in. Because essentially, oppressive melee classes benefit from adding damage back to CC more than anyone else. The forums are all about counterplay, so what is the counterplay for being hit with a CC that does massive damage? Using my stunbreak or anti-CC skill right? Well you'd use that anyway without the damage because the point of the CC is to setup burst, why should it have additional bonuses? The reason all this worked before is simply the game was different. The original devs had ideas for how the original mechanics would work, and they did work pretty well. There were far less 'do everything' classes and buttons so you could have things like damage on CC as it was really just warriors that had this back in the day because their whole thing is being close. Now EVERYTHING seems to CC in some way and every class has additional damage that makes balancing pretty impossible. The only argument I can see for returning CC is to help mitigate some of the barrier spam many classes rely on. Feel like reason it is so oppressive is there are a lot of skills that used to damage and do not now, leading to builds that have huge barrier uptime that is very hard to counter. Though that is probably getting into an entirely different discussion...

Sounds like OP needs to transfer to EU for some content for the Twitch channel...

Essentially, but OP lost in the other topic in the actual Ranger forums so posted here 🤣

What does any of this have to do with people macro'ing to stay in the game while they are afk?

Well time to theorycraft some nike ranger builds... Forget alliances, Anet need to rename the mode 'world of running' cause that's all that is going to be happening now.

Wat: Game Update Notes: June 8, 2021 - Game Update Notes - Guild Wars 2 Forums Unless you meant in intensity?

Where is the 'high tier' gameplay then? No explanation about running from the 2v1? Because if you can't 2v1 with the build in 'middle tier' gameplay then what good is it if you are inviting 'high tier' opponents to a 'money match'? Also, it is doubtful anyone is going to take some superfluous '1k gold' bet so you can get traffic for your fledgling Twitch channel. Unless we get some better content of you winning 1v1's against 'high tier' players or winning 2v1's there really is no other conclusion than Celestial Druid is a meme.

Using 'PvP' generally: Duels should only be requestable in PvP areas, and have some mechanic like 'followers' where you can send a duel request and the opposing party can just ignore it indefinitely. Can of worms but, mounts should really be removed from all PvP content. I don't even know if they are in sPvP (I hope not) but they make WvW a bit of a joke with the provided mobility and CC immunity. EDIT: I also remember when people were vehemently against mounts because they didn't want GW2 to 'become WoW'. Mostly years ago on the old forums that are long gone so hard to prove now, but mounts were definitely not wanted by a large section of the playerbase.

Trait / skill rework is pretty simple: Baseline pet stat increases from BM Add something to make commands work like shouts did to open up alternate playstyles outside of WS Add some sustain to Druid (at least on Glyph of Stars) Add boon support or something to NM to make it fit with the current state of the game The other stuff I can't agree with. Some random objections: Soulbeast has plenty of stability with Dolyak Stance, not sure why you'd need more Skirmishing is most definitely not just used for power builds--it lynchpins condi bleed builds The WS 'rework' does nothing to get people away from it Making Druid a healbot does absolutely zero to get people to use it Taking away Soulbeast stats in exchange for longer stances on merge/unmerge is a pretty big nerf--no one is going to randomly merge or unmerge for some crappy temporary stat boost (that can be stripped / corrupted) Making dagger into sword 2.0 isn't really doing anything; if anything dagger should be almost pure condi because ranger lacks that (and the offhand is pure condi) Not sure why you'd want to remove piercing from SB as poison volley pierces by default--we don't need more LOS stupidity by making the 'splinters' hit random walls and things around targets

I don't think the topic creator is coming back...