NPCs should never play a dominant role in Player vs Player match outcomes.

[SevlisBavles.3059]

Necromancer minions, Ranger pets to a relevant degree and Elementalist summons to an irrelevant degree. It should never be the case that you full CC and DPS burst a ranger and he survives because his pet CCs you, or straight up kills you in the case of 8k+ Drake tail swipes. It should never be the case that you fight a full bunker MM who takes your entire chain to take down, only for the minions to pressure you so much you can't take him down, at which point he will re-sustain in no-time. In a PLAYER vs PLAYER setting minions and pets should be scaled in such a way that they do not pose a meaningful contribution to the outcome of a fight, more like something akin to a trait or a skill that grants +150 of a given attribute. Not something akin to fighting two entire players.

 

Ranger pet damage and CC ability is way overscaled to the point where you can 1v1 a Ranger, die and 20k damage output will have come from the pet. Necromancer minions contribute way too much to point holding other than providing condi cleanse and Death's Carapace stacks to the point where it's a waste of time to even contest the point for the majority of classes. This is not good gameplay in a PLAYER vs PLAYER setting.

Edited August 20, 2021 by SevlisBavles.3059

[Aktium.9506]

Pets are fine when they require micromanaging to be effective. Every skill pets  and minions use should be on a hotbar. They should do nothing except auto attack unless you manually press their skills tbh.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Mhm, I agree with the post.

No AI should be a cornerstone in PvP. 

 

Not saying they shouldn't exist and their skills are fine.

The damage and pressure they bring, is not.

[cloudsareyum.8120]

I disagree... this is a game mechanic thing and it's both counter-able and fun-challenging to play against and fun to play as

[Shrapnel.7249]

There’s truth on both sides. Any person who has dedicated time to becoming adept at ranger would tell you they would LOVE to have better control of their pet. Abso-freakin’-lutely! As it is, that’s not the way the designed the mechanic, and will probably never happen. Pet AI is stupid and cumbersome. It takes dumb paths, faces the wrong direction on just about any skill that leaves them rooted, and you cannot properly control their attacks.
However,  there is a pattern to all their attacks, and it’s a pretty simple pattern. They have an opener, a follow up attack, and their goofy autos. They do this is a set order dependent on opponent’s positioning (meaning if they don’t have to chase the opponent). I find it a extreme disservice to anyone who has gotten adept at actually controlling their pet that they are completely under the control of AI and the player does nothing and just gets free kills. Trust me when I tell you, if you face a high tier player who has spent time on ranger, they are controlling their pets to a certain degree.

Now, CC and damage of a pet is certainly worth discussing. The reality of the pet situation is that most pets are awful. There’s a few pets that everyone uses and it’s obvious why. Dogs class pets have a knockdown, jacaranda has a root, some rangers bring a trait that gives them the ability to taunt, but you sacrifice an amazing grandmaster choice to bring that. Right now rangers are great duelist and roaming classes, however, don’t do enough in team settings to prefer it over a ton of other options. They are viable and in a good place, but I don’t feel they  are OP. Druid’s ancient seeds is an example of a toxic trait, but it’s a terrible trait line in general, and you suffer for bringing it. 
Most ranger players would love to be less dependent on their pet or at least have better control. But since that isn’t that case, let’s be realistic about what a ranger can and cannot do. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I think ranger pets are less of a problem (although some skills are probably a bit OP, imo), but minion mancer is straight up kitten.  One or maybe 2 minions tops for the useful utilities they bring might be ok, but running around with your own army is ridiculous in sPvP.

 

This would be less of an issue if it wasn't on Necro. But their ability to have 2 health bars, strong AOE, powerful condi, frequent fear, AND their own army of minions? Yeah, that's busted.

 

I agree with the original post. If I wanted to fight NPCs, I'd play PvE.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Necro minion, counter-able by what ?

More aoe and condi spam ?

[Genesis.5169]

Ask for the minions to be much much weaker so they can be cleaved easier. I don't find the build OP but it is obnoxious that Necro can just have his pets play for him and forget how to play the game and just run around and sustain themselves, almost as brain dead as DH dropping 3 traps and yonking people for kills.

 

There not OP but i'd love for anet to some how increase the skill ceiling for Necro's so they can't just faceroll on the keyboard and get kills.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[greedywholesome.9081]

People complain about scourge but from my experience, core MM is a bigger threat side node. They are annoying AF. 

Try prot holo, scrapper and on reaper, try well of darkness to blind and spectral grasp for LF. 

 

Most MM players are used to the brain dead gameplay but the best ones use their minions like mesmers and shatter them at the perfect moment. 

[Mik.3401]

I think an easy fix to necro MM is to rework the skills into what they Used to be in GW1 - you can only create a minion from a dead corpse.

 

So simple, I was shocked to see minions in GW2 can be summoned on demand - it is so stupid

Edited August 21, 2021 by Mik.3401

[frareanselm.1925]

Op, are you talking about MM with a e-spec in particular or the core necro? Condi, power?

Edited August 21, 2021 by frareanselm.1925

[Kuma.1503]

Replace all AI with Engi turrets.

 

If we can't have it neither can they!

 

/s

Edited August 21, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i've never understood the dislike for ai builds. its just another way to play the game and adds some flavor. ofc they shouldn't be op, but an op ai build isn't worse then a op build without ai. 

[Genesis.5169]

3 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i've never understood the dislike for ai builds. its just another way to play the game and adds some flavor. ofc they shouldn't be op, but an op ai build isn't worse then a op build without ai. 

 

Doesnt feel good to lose against, if your fighting against a bunker weaver who face tanking all your stuff going to elements and skillfully weaving everything you respect it, you see a bunker holo spaming holo leap, blasting water fields using elixers and elixer gun to sustain you respect it.

 

You see a MM running around just sustaining and letting his minions do the work your like if this dude wasn't on Necro he'd prolly suck.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Stand The Wall.6987]

6 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

Doesnt feel good to lose against, if your fighting against a bunker weaver who face tanking all your stuff going to elements and skillfully weaving everything you respect it, you see a bunker holo spaming holo leap, blasting water fields using elixers and elixer gun to sustain you respect it.

 

You see a MM running around just sustaining and letting his minions do the work your like if this dude wasn't on Necro he'd prolly suck.

so its the passivity? i can understand that. all bunkers have some form of passive sustain, mm being the worst probably. altho once you kill the heal minion its a lot easier, but some classes just don't have the tools to take a mm down. also if they have full shroud you will probably have to reset or rotate.

[jalmari.3906]

Nearly all professions can build on summoning skills/traits, it's part of the game.

 

If your build does not work on  them, try some other build. Or profession. In general, high AoE damage wipes the trash pretty quick, that's why not many summoning builds survive mid fights.

 

Sometimes there might be some need for balancing, but generally it has been fine even before gw2 release date. I'd say in general, summoning builds have not been very strong, especially outside pvp arenas.

 

rock paper scissors

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by jalmari.3906

[jalmari.3906]

15 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

Doesnt feel good to lose against, if your fighting against a bunker weaver who face tanking all your stuff going to elements and skillfully weaving everything you respect it, you see a bunker holo spaming holo leap, blasting water fields using elixers and elixer gun to sustain you respect it.

 

You see a MM running around just sustaining and letting his minions do the work your like if this dude wasn't on Necro he'd prolly suck.

 

Have you thought, that maybe, if you cannot kill the minions or necro your build is not so great against them?

 

Minions work well against certain types of opponents but totally fail against others. Also sustaining shroud is extremely difficult against some professions. Also if they're bunkering their damage is like superlame.

 

[Genesis.5169]

3 hours ago, jalmari.3906 said:

 

Have you thought, that maybe, if you cannot kill the minions or necro your build is not so great against them?

 

Minions work well against certain types of opponents but totally fail against others. Also sustaining shroud is extremely difficult against some professions. Also if they're bunkering their damage is like superlame.

 

 

Lol...

I'm going to ignore you and not insult you.

But man lol.