Why doesn't GW2 have the option of 1x1 duels??

[sasya neko.1985]

3 hours ago, hatozeni.5721 said:

My first thread and this is 17 pages long.
There should be a prize for threads that bring such important needs to the game... like the simple 1v1 that such a beautiful game still doesn't have.

which we still don't need, but if a 17 page thread still doesn't make that clear than you're beyond hope.

[Zephire.8049]

7 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

sPvP players are some of the most engaged and active players. This is seen in raw twitch numbers. mAT and PvP tournaments dwarf any other GW2 stream content by a very large amount. 

Twitch isn't a great metric for GW2. It's not the most fun to watch and it really depends on the streamer being able to make the stream engaging. If you're talking about top tier PvP streamers, that's letting people experience something they may not be able to (unlike the rest of the game) as well as learning strats visually.

 

And there are several PvE streamers that hit 500+ viewers at any given time—PvP-only streamers tend to top out at ~250 from what I've seen.

 

But again, it depends on what the streamer is bringing to the table. You can have the most amazing game to both watch and play and if none of the people streaming it are engaging, the Twitch views will be far lower than they'd be otherwise.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

11 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, it's a part of a very, very old trend. Most MMORPG players just happen to either not like PvP at all, or at least have it very clearly separated from PvE. It's not GW2 specific, by the way. It has been true even in times when open world PvP, or other forms of forced PvP integration into PvE content, were actually common - it just took MMORPG devs some time to notice it.

I find it very odd that you think that people spouting their opinions on the forum are anywhere near a majority.  Duels are optional in every game they're part of, by the way.  Forced PvP != dueling so drawing comparisons to games that have big open worlds and forced pvp within them isn't going to float here. Dueling, by its very nature, is optional.  You can reject duel invitations either manually or automatically

As it stands, if Dueling was magically introduced  this Tuesday  because ANet found a way around the aggression system and found some method to make it work, what would happen is the following (Based off trends with gemstore content and in no particular order):

1.  Salty PvErs crying about how this person won't stop inviting them to duel (When the system would be opt-in).  They refuse to use the block functionality when the person starts two whisper them to remove the offender.
2.  More salt on the forums about  1v1 balance (Which the game will never be balanced around; and it'd be the same salt already posted in the PvP subforum.)
3.  People crying about how they're leaving because "duels make GW2 like every other MMO".
4.  A month or so of people using the new feature massively.  Same thing happens to gemstore skins.  Tons of people bankstanding everywhere using the new skins or item. With dueling it'd be tons of people in spots fighting each other in high traffic areas just to have the fun of the new novelty.
5.  This calms down to it only being used occasionally to kill time waiting and the amount of people who use the feature dips low.
6.  Eventually you just see people at meta events just waiting so they pass the time with some duels and a community forming around 1v1s
7.  The game would go on without a bunch of very stubborn people getting angry that a themepark MMO added a new ride.
8. There would likely be a server crash because GW2's code is a mystery and something this big would break other systems elsewhere

But none of this will happen.  It's not because of anyone's opinion on the forum either. The opinions of the vocal minorities that loom on the forums are meaningless to ANet as a whole.  Think of it this way; GW2's playerbase is an ocean.  Forum opinions are food coloring.  Individually, we make no big marks, and eventually, our opinions just fade away to the statistics ANet actually has on the playerbase.  It's all for that technical reason.  You do recall how against raids everyone was back when  HoT was going to have them?  How about Fractals and Ascended gear in general?  The game is doing just fine after the "mass exodus" of both of those systems being introduced.

This is why I'm here and posting.  The answer was already delivered as to why 1v1 duels in GW2 won't happen (At least not in the way anyone would want or expect) because of those technical reasons.  Anything beyond this is just assumptions and conjecture.

  

2 hours ago, sorudo.9054 said:

which we still don't need, but if a 17 page thread still doesn't make that clear than you're beyond hope.

We also didn't need the legendary armory, build templates, mastery systems, updates that are technically free if you're here for them, raids, fractals, any QoL update, new  PvP game modes, new methods of rewards in wvw/pvp, etc.  At the same time, fishing wasn't needed either but we're getting that.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

I find it very odd that you think that people spouting their opinions on the forum are anywhere near a majority. 

I don't. I am not basing it on opinions on these forums. What i mentioned is a very well known fact - one that has been true for decades (it's been already true in the age of text-based MUDs, before first graphical MMORPGs entered the stage - and now, when the overall playerbase is way more casual than it was then, it is even more true).

I get it, you like duels. And since you do, you think others will either like it, or at least be neutral to them. And you may think that it is possible to introduce them without impacting all those players that do dislike the idea.

Problem is, you severely underestimate the degree to which a lot of players are averse to anything competitive. And you do not see that if Anet did indeed find out a way to introduce duels in a way where everyone not asking for them could easily ignore them, that would not end up as something those players that do ask for them want.

The "duellists" for the most part, do not want the feature to keep duelling with the same, very small group of players they already know. They want to be able to challenge pretty much everyone else. Or at the very least show off in front of those other players. If their duel challenges will not even be noticed (due to the default "ignore challenges" setting), if they won't be able to use other channels to push for those challenges (not that i have any idea how that could be prevented), and if the duels would be pretty much invisible to players not interested to them... what would be the point? They"duellists" would just get bored after using that feature for a week or so with the very small number of players that share their desire for the feature, but finding out that everyone else is not really interested in dueling with them after all.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

25 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I don't. I am not basing it on opinions on these forums. What i mentioned is a very well known fact - one that has been true for decades (it's been already true in the age of text-based MUDs, before first graphical MMORPGs entered the stage - and now, when the overall playerbase is way more casual than it was then, it is even more true).

Citations needed.

 

Quote

I get it, you like duels. And since you do, you think others will either like it, or at least be neutral to them. And you may think that it is possible to introduce them without impacting all those players that do dislike the idea.

I actually don't.  In almost every game I turn off duel invites, but I'm also not deluded enough to believe that giving people the option to duel would kill the game in any way, shape, or form and I'm also not petty enough to quit a game over a singular option being added.

 

Quote

Problem is, you severely underestimate the degree to which a lot of players are averse to anything competitive. And you do not see that if Anet did indeed find out a way to introduce duels in a way where everyone not asking for them could easily ignore them, that would not end up as something those players that do ask for them want.

This isn't a true competitive game mode, though.  That's where you're failing.  This is literally 1v1 duels.  Optional, just like PvP and WvW are (mostly) optional game modes.  Most players  can a lready ignore duels in games that already have them.  This isn't asking for enforced PvP in open world, this is literally asking f or a right-click; duel option.
 

Quote

The "duellists" for the most part, do not want the feature to keep duelling with the same, very small group of players they already know. They want to be able to challenge pretty much everyone else.

Again, citation needed as to what duelists want.  If I were to use this, it'd be to facilitate either a roleplay story plot point or to kill time.  This "They want to be able to challenge pretty much everyone else." just reads as a conjecture, an assumption made on  preconceived notions from prior negative experience with one or more bad eggs in other games that have a dueling options. In ESO, for example, a game where I've spent 3000 hours in it, I've met many people using the dueling system near a lot of daily quest spots.  They may try to duel you but none of them in my entire time there have every tried to force someone to duel.

 

Quote

Or at the very least show off in front of those other players. If their duel challenges will not even be noticed (due to the default "ignore challenges" setting), if they won't be able to use other channels to push for those challenges (not that i have any idea how that could be prevented), and if the duels would be pretty much invisible to players not interested to them... what would be the point? They"duellists" would just get bored after using that feature for a week or so with the very small number of players that share their desire for the feature, but finding out that everyone else is not really interested in dueling with them after all.

The thread is about open world optional 1v1 duels. People are also  already obnoxious in this game, salty in map chat when a meta fails for the first time it shows up in the day, and purposefully troll and throw shade on one another in squad chats or private chats for under performing or just how they dress up their characters.    Also showing off?  Don't people already do that by virtue of wearing expensive/high effort skins and showing expensive/high effort titles? Where is the issue with people showing off?  At the same time, if it's the person trying to force someone else to duel by pressuring them with words; block, report, move on.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Sobx.1758]

44 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I don't. I am not basing it on opinions on these forums. What i mentioned is a very well known fact - one that has been true for decades (it's been already true in the age of text-based MUDs, before first graphical MMORPGs entered the stage - and now, when the overall playerbase is way more casual than it was then, it is even more true).

If it's true, it's only a fact in regards of open world pvp/pk systems where it can allow players to harass others out of the pve areas. This is absolutely not the case for friendly dueling system that's mentioned in this thread.

Quote

Problem is, you severely underestimate the degree to which a lot of players are averse to anything competitive.

Nothing about dueling system -with a possibility to completely opt out of- is "competitive". For a lot of people it's just a way to do something fun inbetween of regular content without the need to jump the maps. Saying that it's some sort of "show off competition" (in front of people that don't even care about it) is misguided, to say the least.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[The Greyhawk.9107]

9 hours ago, hatozeni.5721 said:

My first thread and this is 17 pages long.
There should be a prize for threads that bring such important needs to the game... like the simple 1v1 that such a beautiful game still doesn't have.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but Dueling ain't happening. 

[Kurrilino.2706]

9 hours ago, hatozeni.5721 said:

My first thread and this is 17 pages long.
There should be a prize for threads that bring such important needs to the game... like the simple 1v1 that such a beautiful game still doesn't have.

 

Did you even read the 17 pages ?

 

Let me help out here.

It's 17 pages of duelling in PvE is not of any importance and should not be introduced at all under any circumstances.

It's also full of 1vs1 already exist in tons of ways and game modes.

There was also a poll before 3 of the same topics got were merged which visualized exactly that.

 

I assume you already guess what prize people would award you for an answer like that.

 

Unbelievable.....

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Citations needed.

 

I actually don't.  In almost every game I turn off duel invites, but I'm also not deluded enough to believe that giving people the option to duel would kill the game in any way, shape, or form and I'm also not petty enough to quit a game over a singular option being added.

 

This isn't a true competitive game mode, though.  That's where you're failing.  This is literally 1v1 duels.  Optional, just like PvP and WvW are (mostly) optional game modes.  Most players  can a lready ignore duels in games that already have them.  This isn't asking for enforced PvP in open world, this is literally asking f or a right-click; duel option.
 

Again, citation needed as to what duelists want.  If I were to use this, it'd be to facilitate either a roleplay story plot point or to kill time.  This "They want to be able to challenge pretty much everyone else." just reads as a conjecture, an assumption made on  preconceived notions from prior negative experience with one or more bad eggs in other games that have a dueling options. In ESO, for example, a game where I've spent 3000 hours in it, I've met many people using the dueling system near a lot of daily quest spots.  They may try to duel you but none of them in my entire time there have every tried to force someone to duel.

 

The thread is about open world optional 1v1 duels. People are also  already obnoxious in this game, salty in map chat when a meta fails for the first time it shows up in the day, and purposefully troll and throw shade on one another in squad chats or private chats for under performing or just how they dress up their characters.    Also showing off?  Don't people already do that by virtue of wearing expensive/high effort skins and showing expensive/high effort titles? Where is the issue with people showing off?  At the same time, if it's the person trying to force someone else to duel by pressuring them with words; block, report, move on.

 

Short answer :  NO

Long answer: NO and stop repeating always same arguments every week. Duelling is not gonna happen, deal with it

[Kurrilino.2706]

4 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

This is why I'm here and posting.  The answer was already delivered as to why 1v1 duels in GW2 won't happen (At least not in the way anyone would want or expect) because of those technical reasons.  Anything beyond this is just assumptions and conjecture.

 

Thank you very much, can we stop now having threads about that topic every week?

[Kurrilino.2706]

On 9/11/2021 at 9:50 AM, Jilora.9524 said:

Which means nothing. If you went back to all the does GW2 need fishing most were in there saying no and look what happened.

 

???????

 

Are you serious? Tons of players were supporting housing and fishing for years.

 

Duels on the other hand is rejected by a vest majority of the players

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

10 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Did you even read the 17 pages ?

 

Let me help out here.

It's 17 pages of duelling in PvE is not of any importance and should not be introduced at all under any circumstances.

It's also full of 1vs1 already exist in tons of ways and game modes.

There was also a poll before 3 of the same topics got were merged which visualized exactly that.

 

I assume you already guess what prize people would award you for an answer like that.

 

Unbelievable.....

Do you even read and process what people post or do you just havae an emotional response?

7 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Short answer :  NO

Long answer: NO and stop repeating always same arguments every week. Duelling is not gonna happen, deal with it

Look, I already explained what would actually happen if what is being asked for here was actually implemented if it were  possible within the game engine without massive reworks.  Your opinion on the matter  doesn't actually matter to ANet.  What matters to them is the following; How much effort is it to implement this feature vs how well can it be monetized vs how many people will actually use it?

5 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Thank you very much, can we stop now having threads about that topic every week?

It's not every week, but please, if threads that discuss  this topic frustrate you, take care of yourself first by doing literally anything else and come back with a clear mind.

  

3 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

???????

 

Are you serious? Tons of players were supporting housing and fishing for years.

 

Duels on the other hand is rejected by a vest majority of the players

I guess the amount of players in each and every fishing thread against fishing or being critical of it suddenly don't exist because it's a feature you like?

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Kurrilino.2706]

On 9/11/2021 at 7:57 PM, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

It's a handful of very opinionated people that really don't like duels because they have a personal problem with them

 

 

I assume you missed the poll that ended 83% versus 17% before it was merged into this topic?

You really underestimate what you are going against here.

When the vast majority of people tell you that they are against this feature they mean it.

There is no reason to force it down their throat just because you want it

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I assume you missed the poll that ended 83% versus 17% before it was merged into this topic?

You really underestimate what you are going against here.

When the vast majority of people tell you that they are against this feature they mean it.

There is no reason to force it down their throat just because you want it

No I know that the forums are full of a very vocal and entitled minority that think they're the majority.  These people will threaten to quit over t he most mundane features too.

EDIT: Imagine having such a vehement and obtuse view of the game that you think a feature that is opt-in, that would be fun f or some people around world bosses or as an alternative to bankstanding in a city, is such a vile option that you'd quit over it.  Guild Wars 2 is a themepark MMO. It'd be to their benefit to add content (rides & attractions) to the game.  The screeching people do over dueling is hilarious.  It's like the Old School Runescape playerbase voting no to a new skill.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Sesaline.6705]

I don't see the issue with adding duels in open world if they are optional. 

 

Players could duel if they want to or automatically decline if they don't want it. You don't have to be a hardcore competitive player to enjoy spontaneous pvp like this. It's a great way to learn your class with someone else or test gear on something that isn't a static test-dummy sponge. But I guess you could do this in an arena in GH too, so yeah.

 

It's also great for roleplayers believe it or not. They enjoy duels for all kinds of reasons.

 

14 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I assume you missed the poll that ended 83% versus 17% before it was merged into this topic?

You really underestimate what you are going against here.

When the vast majority of people tell you that they are against this feature they mean it.

There is no reason to force it down their throat just because you want it

 

If it is optional, you're not forcing anyone to do anything. You're only opening up opportunities for people who do want it or are interested in it. If it doesn't affect you then why be a Karen about it?

And--

 

14 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

No I know that the forums are full of a very vocal and entitled minority that think they're the majority.  These people will threaten to quit over t he most mundane features too.

 

If the forums are the minority of players who take the time to use forums (which is true) , then these poll statistics are an atom in the bucket. There's no way you can definitively say that dueling is hated by most players when less than 1% of them chose an option on a forum poll.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

13 minutes ago, Sesaline.6705 said:

If the forums are the minority of players who take the time to use forums (which is true) , then these poll statistics are an atom in the bucket. There's no way you can definitively say that dueling is hated by most players when less than 1% of them chose an option on a forum poll.

The forums are a minority of players who take the time out of their day to post.  Both the faction of PvE players here and PvP, raiders, instanced content players, etc.  They're all a sub-faction of the player groups ingame.  There's some wonky maths you can do to get estimations, but that's all they are, a projection of incomplete information; a guess.  The reality of the situation is that the forums would have a stink, but it wouldn't involve many new faces.  Most players ingame wouldn't even care when asked, or would prefer.  The problems with 1v1 duels (in the manner that the people in this thread actually want) , however, is that it's too much work for what's basically a novelty like costume brawls.  It'd require lots of engine work and currently, ANet is working on an expansion.
 

53 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but Dueling ain't happening. 

Just like how capes, raids, & mounts weren't ever going to happen?

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[The Greyhawk.9107]

5 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Just like how capes, raids, & mounts weren't ever going to happen?

This is a kitten argument, Anet never said "No" to any of those things and even if they did that doesn't mean they're going to change their entire philosophy of keeping the competitive game modes separate from the co-operative game modes.  Especially in the face of a decent amount of people being vocally against it (and not just in this forum) and there already being options in game for similar play And the massive hurdle of trying to code into the OW systems a change to how aggression works (as you among others have mentioned)....no, its just not going to kittening happen.

Oh, and also: I'd rather they spent resources on other things.©

 

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

58 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

The forums are a minority of players who take the time out of their day to post.  Both the faction of PvE players here and PvP, raiders, instanced content players, etc.  They're all a sub-faction of the player groups ingame.  There's some wonky maths you can do to get estimations, but that's all they are, a projection of incomplete information; a guess.  The reality of the situation is that the forums would have a stink, but it wouldn't involve many new faces.  Most players ingame wouldn't even care when asked, or would prefer.  The problems with 1v1 duels (in the manner that the people in this thread actually want) , however, is that it's too much work for what's basically a novelty like costume brawls.  It'd require lots of engine work and currently, ANet is working on an expansion.
 

Just like how capes, raids, & mounts weren't ever going to happen?

 

i don’t remember if they said anything about raid but capes they said they wanted to add and actively worked on for a long time. It was technical problems holding them back. 
 

as for mounts they only said no mounts at launch. They never said anything one way or another about mounts later. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

This is a kitten argument, Anet never said "No" to any of those things and even if they did that doesn't mean they're going to change their entire philosophy of keeping the competitive game modes separate from the co-operative game modes.  Especially in the face of a decent amount of people being vocally against it (and not just in this forum) and there already being options in game for similar play And the massive hurdle of trying to code into the OW systems a change to how aggression works (as you among others have mentioned)....no, its just not going to kittening happen.

Oh, and also: I'd rather they spent resources on other things.©

 

That's the thing, though.  ANet did.  Just like how expansions weren't going to be a thing.  They're capable of changing their mind, and nothing we say or do is really going to stop them.

Also this:
 

Quote

Especially in the face of a decent amount of people being vocally against it (and not just in this forum)

I'd love to see a poll done ingame, but it 's not going to happen.  You speak for yourself and no one else.  Unless you've some form of statistics that are unbiased and blind to who's doing t he voting, you can't claim this.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Ultramex.1506]

Any reason this post still going? the People that dislike duel outnumber the People that don't and even the dev have made an decision regarding this.

Why does this need to continue again? Why waste everyone time? Obviously i zoned out and didn't bother reading anymore but seeing it pop on first page again and again with same old tired argument, really annoying since there are more important things to discuss

Edited September 13, 2021 by Ultramex.1506

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

That's the thing, though.  ANet did.  Just like how expansions weren't going to be a thing.  They're capable of changing their mind, and nothing we say or do is really going to stop them.

Also this:
 

I'd love to see a poll done ingame, but it 's not going to happen.  You speak for yourself and no one else.  Unless you've some form of statistics that are unbiased and blind to who's doing t he voting, you can't claim this.

Anet never said that they weren't going to go with expansions only that they weren't sure and wanted to experiment.   And as Just A Flesh Wound reiterated Anet never said they weren't going have any of the other random stuff you brought up.  But again, Even IF they had said no and changed their minds, all that random stuff is a still a far cry from changing one of the Core Philosophies of keeping Competitive separate from Co-operative, a Core that Anet has had since Guild Wars Prophecies.

Also, I don't need to show polls or statistics to be able to say that "decent amount of people being vocally against it".  I didn't say a majority or most or give an exact percentage, I only said a 'decent amount', which I am perfectly justified in saying.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

as for mounts they only said no mounts at launch. They never said anything one way or another about mounts later. 

Mounts actually were of those few technical issues they mentioned they wanted to introduce in GW1, and couldn't due to engine limitations (so, one of reasons why GW2 even got created). They probably didn't have them at launch only because they either didn't manage to solve the issue, or simply didn't have time to implement all the things they wanted.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If it's true, it's only a fact in regards of open world pvp/pk systems where it can allow players to harass others out of the pve areas. This is absolutely not the case for friendly dueling system that's mentioned in this thread.

That's your opinion. 20 years of gaming history says otherwise.

Most PvE players just don't like any form of encroachement of PvP into their safe PvE spaces. Even when it theoretically does not affect them (but then, in practice, it often does affect them)

Quote

Nothing about dueling system -with a possibility to completely opt out of- is "competitive". For a lot of people it's just a way to do something fun inbetween of regular content without the need to jump the maps. Saying that it's some sort of "show off competition" (in front of people that don't even care about it) is misguided, to say the least.

In theory, sure. In practice, a system that woudl be completely transparent to all PvE players that do not even want to see it would make it next to impossible for the would-be duelists to find dueling partners. In all the games that had such a system it always ended up with bored duelists bothering people that were not interested, often way past the point where those made it very clear that they are not, and would not be interested.

I know of no single case of a PvE-focused game with a duel system added where that system would not cause friction. If you do, please enlighten me.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

You're both just using generalizations and conjecture.  Arguing with you is useless as neither I nor you will be satisfied until there's actual hard evidence and numbers.

15 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I know of no single case of a PvE-focused game with a duel system added where that system would not cause friction. If you do, please enlighten me.

ESO.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

ESO.

If you think that did not cause any friction, then we really have nothing to talk about, because you clearly just live in a different reality than i do.