Why doesn't GW2 have the option of 1x1 duels??

[Jilora.9524]

7 hours ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Any reason this post still going? the People that dislike duel outnumber the People that don't and even the dev have made an decision regarding this.

Why does this need to continue again? Why waste everyone time? Obviously i zoned out and didn't bother reading anymore but seeing it pop on first page again and again with same old tired argument, really annoying since there are more important things to discuss

Same thread. People commenting keep it going. Maybe go look into more important threads like the swimsuit one or rise in player base oh wait basically every thread is a waste of our time and who are you to say one can't continue because you don't find it important.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

12 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If you think that did not cause any friction, then we really have nothing to talk about, because you clearly just live in a different reality than i do.

Lol, different realities.  Sure thing.

Dueling in ESO really doesn't cause problems, though.

You see maybe 10 people dueling near daily spots or crossroads, sometimes while waiting for groups to fill for dungeons and trials.  You walk near the circle, someone may try to duel you.  You select 'no' they 999 times out of 1000 tend to leave you alone.  In my time there  (Where I put over 1000 hours playtime in a couple months), I met a singular person who got salty that I wouldn't pvp them. This was back in 2020, too, when everyone was going crazy from quarantine. Do the people dueling talk crap?  Yes.  Yes they do.  It's only to their opponent though and not to anyone else.

But also, look, ESO didn't have dueling, then did.  And it's still alive and running well enough.  It's the only other MMO where the open world is generally cooperative with minor competition for nodes and some loot.  Do keep prattling on about how bad dueling is though, it's actually kind of hilarious.

[Aeis.8519]

This whole thread is a dumpster fire of armchair  developer and statistical analysis opinions and whinging about abuse, or potential abuse, from duel invites.  The good news is the question was answered earlier on as to why dueling hasn't been done yet.  Any other reasoning beyond the technical is just a salted opinion.  Also, before anyone asks, no I don't even care about dueling if it's added in the manner described in this thread, or not at all.  I'd just rather people actually have a civil discussion, but  there's so many bad faith actors here who'd rather spend their time insulting and arguing over nothing.  Everyone in this thread read so similarly to the people who  were arguing over raids back in the day.

[Gibson.4036]

I'm highly amused that this thread now largely consists of  "the topic was settled pages ago" posts.

Not amused enough to find an eating popcorn meme. But amused nonetheless.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Sobx.1758]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's your opinion. 20 years of gaming history says otherwise.

Most PvE players just don't like any form of encroachement of PvP into their safe PvE spaces. Even when it theoretically does not affect them (but then, in practice, it often does affect them)

Nah, opt-in/out duels just don't influence the players that don't want to participate. Because how exactly is it supposed to affect them?

Quote

In theory, sure. In practice, a system that woudl be completely transparent to all PvE players that do not even want to see it would make it next to impossible for the would-be duelists to find dueling partners. In all the games that had such a system it always ended up with bored duelists bothering people that were not interested, often way past the point where those made it very clear that they are not, and would not be interested.

I know of no single case of a PvE-focused game with a duel system added where that system would not cause friction. If you do, please enlighten me.

What friction? You have an option to not be able to receive the duel invites at all, how is this supposed to bother anyone? It just won't. If your claim is limited to saying something along the lines of "if you don't accept the duel, someone can flame you!" then that's a non-argument seeing how people of that sort will always find something to flame others about. Title, rank, level/masteries, build, class, modes they play, guild name, nickname, weapon choice and so on -if "someone might feel the need to insult others!" is the only argument against the opt-in/out duels you have, then it's equally true for almost any part of the game where people are able to make their own choice which can go against the choices of other player/s.

It's not an open world pvp/pk system.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

I was wrong, not just "this topic was settled" posts.

Also, "You can't say something bothers you if I can't understand why it bothers you" posts. At least the thread still has that.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I was wrong, not just "this topic was settled" posts.

Also, "You can't say something bothers you if I can't understand why it bothers you" posts. At least the thread still has that.

Also your non-responses that try to show how uninterested you are in the topic and yet, I guess, you still want to be a part of it by providing some weird meta-commentary instead of answering to anything anyone writes. Not sure what's your goal with that.

[Gibson.4036]

22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Also your non-responses that try to show how uninterested you are in the topic and yet, I guess, you still want to be a part of it by providing some weird meta-commentary instead of answering to anything anyone writes. Not sure what's your goal with that.

Yeah, I stopped posting a while back and just watched the thread devolve, thinking it was probably best not to feed this snake that has been swallowing its own tail for a while now.

Then I had a moment of weakness and joined back in. 

Mea culpa.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[cheri.6941]

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet or not cuz I'm not gonna read 19 pages when it looked like a feces flinging contest by the end of page 1 but my friends and I just look for empty custom pvp lobbies to use if we want to 1v1. Always plenty with 0 players and no entry requirements/passwords we can freely "duel" eachother in. Hope the idea helps.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

20 hours ago, Zephire.8049 said:

Twitch isn't a great metric for GW2. It's not the most fun to watch and it really depends on the streamer being able to make the stream engaging. If you're talking about top tier PvP streamers, that's letting people experience something they may not be able to (unlike the rest of the game) as well as learning strats visually.

 

And there are several PvE streamers that hit 500+ viewers at any given time—PvP-only streamers tend to top out at ~250 from what I've seen.

 

But again, it depends on what the streamer is bringing to the table. You can have the most amazing game to both watch and play and if none of the people streaming it are engaging, the Twitch views will be far lower than they'd be otherwise.

You deciding it isn’t the most fun to watch is a completely subjective and irrelevant topic. Any sort of  media outside the game and its engagement is useful data. This includes things like YouTube videos. 
 

mATs and hosted tournaments on Teapots channel have recently gotten almost 2000 concurrent viewers. Dwarfing any other type of streaming content for GW2.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

You deciding it isn’t the most fun to watch is a completely subjective and irrelevant topic. Any sort of  media outside the game and its engagement is useful data. This includes things like YouTube videos. 
 

mATs and hosted tournaments on Teapots channel have recently gotten almost 2000 concurrent viewers. Dwarfing any other type of streaming content for GW2.

Except that has no relevance to the game metrics or game success. None of that 'useful' information tells you anything, and certainly nothing about the apatite players have for 1v1 duels in OW. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Ultramex.1506]

6 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Same thread. People commenting keep it going. Maybe go look into more important threads like the swimsuit one or rise in player base oh wait basically every thread is a waste of our time and who are you to say one can't continue because you don't find it important.

Because it has been talked to dead with neither party agreeing, atleast with swimsuit you get a good laugh out of it and there only 1-2 swimsuit request but this dueling request resurface more than other, so....yeah i can say my feeling hoping for this to end but eh its all for naught

Edit: oh and the post like "rise in player" die out but this keep going and going

Edited September 13, 2021 by Ultramex.1506

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

50 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except that has no relevance to the game metrics or game success. None of that 'useful' information tells you anything, and certainly nothing about the apatite players have for 1v1 duels in OW. 

You jumped in mid-conversation without understanding the point. That would honestly be terrible if that information told ANET nothing about what their populations interests are. There is a lot of useful information that can be found outside the game. I feel like if a marketing or data team came to the same conclusions as you they would be immediately fired. 

 

There are many useful ways to gauge consumer interest. It would be at ANETs loss to only look at their ingame metrics. 

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

 

Edit: oh and the post like "rise in player" die out but this keep going and going

I think that was a moderator's doing.

[Gibson.4036]

7 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Same thread. People commenting keep it going. Maybe go look into more important threads like the swimsuit one or rise in player base oh wait basically every thread is a waste of our time and who are you to say one can't continue because you don't find it important.

Aw, for a second there I thought you were in support of our clear need for swimsuits in game. And then you went and ruined the ride.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, cheri.6941 said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet or not cuz I'm not gonna read 19 pages when it looked like a feces flinging contest by the end of page 1 but my friends and I just look for empty custom pvp lobbies to use if we want to 1v1. Always plenty with 0 players and no entry requirements/passwords we can freely "duel" eachother in. Hope the idea helps.

Yes, it is something you can do, but it doesn't exactly address one of the reasons for some people being interested in having dueling system in the game: for a lot of people it's just a way to do something fun inbetween of regular content without the need to jump the maps.

Most things being listed against the idea is so vague that they have nearly no meaning as something directed specifically at this request, with the examples from the post on the previous page:

-"it can cause friction!", 

-"[some of] the other games don't have it!" ,

-"some people don't want to see it, so the people that want to use the system wouldn't be able to find a dueling partner!".

All of this is intentionally vague and either can be said about many other things in the game ("can cause friction" and "but other games..!") OR pretends it's a concern for the players wanting duels, while it really isn't ("what if they can't find someone to duel?" -if you don't want the dueling system in the first place then why do you pretend you care about that? If those players can't find anyone to duel then... they just don't). That's pretty obviously an attempt to create a problem where there isn't one for the sake of saying no. Well, at least from my understanding, but for now nobody bothered to explain to me why that's not the case.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758
the "you" in this post isn't directed @cheri, but at the people making those specific arguments :p

[Zephire.8049]

3 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

You deciding it isn’t the most fun to watch is a completely subjective and irrelevant topic. Any sort of  media outside the game and its engagement is useful data. This includes things like YouTube videos. 
 

mATs and hosted tournaments on Teapots channel have recently gotten almost 2000 concurrent viewers. Dwarfing any other type of streaming content for GW2.

I didn't come up with the conclusion it wasn't fun to watch, that's years of people explaining why they'd rather play GW2 than watch someone else do it. If a game isn't fun to watch for most people but is also accessible and fun to play, of course a lot of them will skip watching and jump right to playing unless the streamer adds to the experience to make up it.

 

And one-off/periodic events aren't useful info, either. Of course people will tune in for things they're not participating in or otherwise will have to watch a VOD later if they want to see it. GW2's EoD stream hit something like 15k and various giveaways hit 700-3k concurrent viewers. But outside of events and people watching to get free stuff, GW2 streams tend to sit at 50-700 viewers with the largest streamers maybe getting a peak of 800-1k.

 

And most of those streamers are only/primarily PvE or coming from another game and have thousands of subscribers who will watch them play whatever since they're there for the streamer, not the game. I'm looking at the most active streams right this moment and of the top 10, 9 are PvE/giveaways/streamers trying out GW2. The only PvP one is #10 and just over 100 views. If PvP were such a great indicator of PvP players' interest in GW2, I'd have thought they'd be higher up and have more streams even during off-hours.

[Gibson.4036]

15 hours ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Why does this need to continue again? Why waste everyone time? Obviously i zoned out and didn't bother reading anymore but seeing it pop on first page again and again with same old tired argument, really annoying since there are more important things to discuss

Yeah, like the meaning of the confused emoji!

Wait... a... minute....

 You're part of the reason this topic stayed on the front page. 

Wait, I am, too!

Ack!

Edited September 13, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

You jumped in mid-conversation without understanding the point. That would honestly be terrible if that information told ANET nothing about what their populations interests are. There is a lot of useful information that can be found outside the game. I feel like if a marketing or data team came to the same conclusions as you they would be immediately fired. 

 

There are many useful ways to gauge consumer interest. It would be at ANETs loss to only look at their ingame metrics. 

No they wouldn't be immediately fired ... because the BETTER data is the data they can get directly from the game. As someone said ... social media is an iffy place to get information about a game. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[IndigoSundown.5419]

* If a developer bases its choices as to what features get added to the game based on negative reaction, they would never add anything new to the game.

 

* Duel-phobia is real.

 

* The expectation that putting duels in would lead to a dramatic decrease in the quality of life for players is perplexing.  I've played a lot of games where there was a dueling feature.  In nearly 20 years of gaming, I've refused a metric ton of duels, had a few repeat invites, and zero cringe-worthy whispers.  While I won't deny that some people may have had negative experiences, I have to wonder if there isn't a healthy amount of fear based off a small amount o experience or even hearsay.  I believe that fear of a dueling feature is based in exceptionally negative thinking.  While I'm capable of expecting the worst, I tend to reserve that thought choice to certain real world issues, where the evidence suggests it's warranted.

 

* In games where I did duel, the only time I did was while waiting in a PvE location for something (usually a dungeon group to form or my guildmates who liked to keep the raid group waiting.  None of the options for duels in GW2 would work for the GW2 equivalent, which is waiting for a world boss to pop.  All involve leaving the map, and there is usually a high likelihood that there would be no room in the map on return.

 

* The most likely reason ANet is not implementing a dueling in PvE feature is due to the amount of programmer work needed to make it happen.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I was wrong, not just "this topic was settled" posts.

Also, "You can't say something bothers you if I can't understand why it bothers you" posts. At least the thread still has that.

We understand it bothers you, but also there's always that one player you know them.  That one that gets salty about everything.  Having a handful of experiences with bad eggs doesn't justify exclusion  of the whole.  If everything added to this game followed that same philosophy, nothing would get done.

[Gibson.4036]

9 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

We understand it bothers you, but also there's always that one player you know them.  That one that gets salty about everything.  Having a handful of experiences with bad eggs doesn't justify exclusion  of the whole.  If everything added to this game followed that same philosophy, nothing would get done.

I totally don't expect ArenaNet to cater to what bothers me or doesn't.

I do find it silly when people think other people must be saying something bothers them because of a secret agenda because they just can't come to terms that it bothers some people.

I don't understand why my daughter likes the taste of hot dogs over bratwurst. But I don't imagine she must have an ulterior motive for saying she does.

"I don't think there are many people who are bothered, even though you say you are" is a perfectly fine response.

"I don't think you're really bothered, you're just making it up because it would be absurd to be bothered" not so much.

You'll find both responses throughout this thread.

____________________________

I'm pretty sure my final post actually discussing duels conceded that if it couldn't happen in cities and where people gather to do open world events, I'd be fine with it.

I just came back to participate in the meta-conversation this thread largely devolved to, talking about talking about duels. I shouldn't have. But I am weak. 😄

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

5 hours ago, cheri.6941 said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet or not cuz I'm not gonna read 19 pages when it looked like a feces flinging contest by the end of page 1 but my friends and I just look for empty custom pvp lobbies to use if we want to 1v1. Always plenty with 0 players and no entry requirements/passwords we can freely "duel" eachother in. Hope the idea helps.

To save you some time here's the TL;DR of this thread.

Person asks why there's not 1v1 duels (EG, right-click, duel option)

many opinions were spread about how horrible they are f or this game.

One (1) actual technical answer as to why it won't work with a reddit thread linking to the dev who said it.  It's somewhere in this thread, I think.  I'm unsure if the post was edited or deleted because I sure as heck can't find it.  For those curious, it's due to how the game handles aggression and mob hostility.

More vitriolic opinions and mud slinging ensues.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I totally don't expect ArenaNet to cater to what bothers me or doesn't.

I do find it silly when people think other people must be saying something bothers them because of a secret agenda because they just can't come to terms that it bothers some people.

I don't understand why my daughter likes the taste of hot dogs over bratwurst. But I don't imagine she must have an ulterior motive for saying she does.

"I don't think there are many people who are bothered, even though you say you are" is a perfectly fine response.

"I don't think you're really bothered, you're just making it up because it would be absurd to be bothered" not so much.

You'll find both responses throughout this thread.

I actually found the former more often than the latter.

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

I actually found the former more often than the latter.

Sweet.

I totally didn't tally. I have responded to some that were the latter. Maybe my fault for not being clearer. My responses probably sound like a blanket, rather than specific, response.