Pvp does not reward skilled player

[Zinzon.4081]

Every single meta build are builds that reward passive play and are just overall batshit easy to play facerolling every enemy. You try to play any sort of class with a minimum of brain power required and it super hard actually climbing with them. You learn skill rotation, skill combo, burst rotation defensive rotation nothing matter, ranger blow up half your health in 1 shot while his pets does 2k autos and yours do 1k2. The state of balance is sad. It didnt even change since the 1 year I was away. Theres no data collected to balance things correctly, like class win rate, build template win rate, weapon combo winrate etc. All in all Anet is still as incompetent as one year ago in balancing and even worst you are coerced to play some classes to actually have a shot at reaching high rank even tough you completely trash platinum player on their class with 10h play and get stomped with your main because of dogshit balance. How can the community endure this?

[crewthief.8649]

21 minutes ago, Zinzon.4081 said:

Every single meta build are builds that reward passive play and are just overall batshit easy to play facerolling every enemy. You try to play any sort of class with a minimum of brain power required and it super hard actually climbing with them. You learn skill rotation, skill combo, burst rotation defensive rotation nothing matter, ranger blow up half your health in 1 shot while his pets does 2k autos and yours do 1k2. The state of balance is sad. It didnt even change since the 1 year I was away. Theres no data collected to balance things correctly, like class win rate, build template win rate, weapon combo winrate etc. All in all Anet is still as incompetent as one year ago in balancing and even worst you are coerced to play some classes to actually have a shot at reaching high rank even tough you completely trash platinum player on their class with 10h play and get stomped with your main because of dogshit balance. How can the community endure this?

Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome? 

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

Crazy that minion mancer and scourge are still a thing. Garbage bunkers are always gonna be a thing unfortunately. 

[Locuz.2651]

4 hours ago, Zinzon.4081 said:

Every single meta build are builds that reward passive play and are just overall batshit easy to play facerolling every enemy. You try to play any sort of class with a minimum of brain power required and it super hard actually climbing with them.

 

 

The only specs that fit in to the "passive play faceroll" meta you describe is scourge, MM and to some extend core necro. The rest is all managable and there is a huge gap between bad and good "anything else".

 

All classes have at least 2 good options to push rating with. None of them are super hard to reach at least plat 1-2 with.  So stop playing the blame game and start looking at your own gameplay or mindset as the reason you cant climb any further.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Locuz.2651

[Psycoprophet.8107]

8 hours ago, Locuz.2651 said:

 

 

The only specs that fit in to the "passive play faceroll" meta you describe is scourge, MM and to some extend core necro. The rest is all managable and there is a huge gap between bad and good "anything else".

 

All classes have at least 2 good options to push rating with. None of them are super hard to reach at least plat 1-2 with.  So stop playing the blame game and start looking at your own gameplay or mindset as the reason you cant climb any further.

This^ anet has done a great job at balancing, if they didn't ud see the same small handful of classes in every high level match or tournament vs the incredible diverse selection u currently see chosen in these matches. I mean take warrior for example, this class is considered by the devs to be in a great state of balance within this game and that was shown to be true in its healthy representation in such matches, I mean look at the last MAT's, warrior had a very healthy representation :).

Lastly the fact the games pvp population is so healthy is a direct result of anets incredible ability to balance their classes.

I say good job anet, u guys are great.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[SevlisBavles.3059]

13 hours ago, Zinzon.4081 said:

You learn skill rotation, skill combo, burst rotation defensive rotation nothing matter, ranger blow up half your health in 1 shot while his pets does 2k autos and yours do 1k2. 

Someone's Drake was chasing me one game while the Ranger seemed to be busy with something else. I was playing Carrion Mirage and I figured: let's see what happens when I just fight this pet 1-on-1. The kittening thing took over half my health off when I had barely even taken 20% off, even with me evading the tail swipe. That kitten is utterly ridiculous. Pets do not belong in PLAYER vs PLAYER setting, they need to be reworked. Even the worst and most useless builds played by a HUMAN player should never ever be outclassed by an NPC.

Even beyond that, 8k Maul that can instantly be refreshed into another 8k Maul should never be a thing. Ranger Greatsword damage needs to be halved at least and pets should serve a utility function in fights at most.

The thing is, Rangers don't contribute as much to the outcome of a match as say, a MM sitting on a point. In the grand scheme of things, match-outcome wise, they aren't broken. In 1v1 scenarios they utterly are broken against every class except Weaver, it's dumb to have to play against them in their current state. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

7 minutes ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Someone's Drake was chasing me one game while the Ranger seemed to be busy with something else. I was playing Carrion Mirage and I figured: let's see what happens when I just fight this pet 1-on-1. The kittening thing took over half my health off when I had barely even taken 20% off, even with me evading the tail swipe. That kitten is utterly ridiculous. Pets do not belong in PLAYER vs PLAYER setting, they need to be reworked. Even the worst and most useless builds played by a HUMAN player should never ever be outclassed by an NPC.

Even beyond that, 8k Maul that can instantly be refreshed into another 8k Maul should never be a thing. Ranger Greatsword damage needs to be halved at least and pets should serve a utility function in fights at most.

The thing is, Rangers don't contribute as much to the outcome of a match as say, a MM sitting on a point. In the grand scheme of things, match-outcome wise, they aren't broken. In 1v1 scenarios they utterly are broken against every class except Weaver, it's dumb to have to play against them in their current state. 

I noticed that my pets can 1v1 bad players, heck after ranked reset sometimes I roll up on side nodes and refuse to hit my enemies and see how long they last against a smokescale, meanwhile good players take almost no damage from them.
And no, rangers are not unbeatable, you are supposed to avoid the pets by movement, not by ramming your head against theirs.

[WUROCKET.5182]

8 minutes ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Someone's Drake was chasing me one game while the Ranger seemed to be busy with something else. I was playing Carrion Mirage and I figured: let's see what happens when I just fight this pet 1-on-1. The kittening thing took over half my health off when I had barely even taken 20% off, even with me evading the tail swipe. That kitten is utterly ridiculous. Pets do not belong in PLAYER vs PLAYER setting, they need to be reworked. Even the worst and most useless builds played by a HUMAN player should never ever be outclassed by an NPC.

Even beyond that, 8k Maul that can instantly be refreshed into another 8k Maul should never be a thing. Ranger Greatsword damage needs to be halved at least and pets should serve a utility function in fights at most.

The thing is, Rangers don't contribute as much to the outcome of a match as say, a MM sitting on a point. In the grand scheme of things, match-outcome wise, they aren't broken. In 1v1 scenarios they utterly are broken against every class except Weaver, it's dumb to have to play against them in their current state. 

Are we really supposed to take balance suggestions from someone who cant 1v1 a ranger pet?

[SevlisBavles.3059]

2 minutes ago, WUROCKET.5182 said:

Are we really supposed to take balance suggestions from someone who cant 1v1 a ranger pet?

Are we really supposed to take someone seriously who can't read?

[SevlisBavles.3059]

4 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I noticed that my pets can 1v1 bad players, heck after ranked reset sometimes I roll up on side nodes and refuse to hit my enemies and see how long they last against a smokescale, meanwhile good players take almost no damage from them.
And no, rangers are not unbeatable, you are supposed to avoid the pets by movement, not by ramming your head against theirs.

Yes, exactly. Just like Scourge carries bad players to higher ranks because they don't have to think about what they do, Ranger carries bad players to high ranks because they are carried by their pets and sheer overscaled GS damage. Rangers are definitely not unbeatable, I didn't say that and overall I have no more trouble taking them on than any other class. I don't mind dying when I'm being outplayed by someone, I mind dying when I'm completely outplaying someone, do a perfect rotation, completely kitten on them, Mantra their heal, and still die to 18k+ combined pet damage. I should not have to dodge a human player AND an NPC to begin with, I should have to dodge a human player with skills and abilities he actively and dynamically controls. It doesn't matter in that regard whether a player like Boyce can entirely evade a pet during a fight, he shouldn't have to either. 

Pets are overscaled to begin with. No NPC should even remotely stand toe-to-toe with even a Bronze player playing full zerk Power Firebrand. NPCs should never ever be a deciding factor in a Player vs Player confrontation.

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

15 hours ago, Zinzon.4081 said:

Every single meta build are builds that reward passive play and are just overall batshit easy to play facerolling every enemy. You try to play any sort of class with a minimum of brain power required and it super hard actually climbing with them. You learn skill rotation, skill combo, burst rotation defensive rotation nothing matter, ranger blow up half your health in 1 shot while his pets does 2k autos and yours do 1k2. The state of balance is sad. It didnt even change since the 1 year I was away. Theres no data collected to balance things correctly, like class win rate, build template win rate, weapon combo winrate etc. All in all Anet is still as incompetent as one year ago in balancing and even worst you are coerced to play some classes to actually have a shot at reaching high rank even tough you completely trash platinum player on their class with 10h play and get stomped with your main because of dogshit balance. How can the community endure this?

If you're actually a skilled player, passive-play classes are an easy W for you. 

Where do people get this idiotic idea that balance in a team-fighting setting means every char holds up just fine against all others? No, you're not gonna get that core necro bunker tank off that node by bum-rushing them with your lil flamethrower. But a skilled ranger will get them to move all day long, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do with a bunker. They win wars of attrition 1v1. Wanna facetank them? Get a zerk build and outburst them. Get a long range build and kite them. Make them waste their lich/shroud and CC spam them. But your team-fighting build isn't MADE to solo bunkers.

This is rock-paper-scissors, not rock-rock-rock.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Brimstone Jack.3462

[Coffee And Cream.6198]

Obviously saying that warrior is in a balanced state with absolutely zero play, zero in top level AT says it all.

If Ele, Mesmer and Warrior is considered by ANET to be balanced and received the least amount of top level play in AT.  What does that say about everything else?

 

The easiest thing to balance right now would be Necro MM, those minions really need to die a lot faster than they do.

[Leonidrex.5649]

40 minutes ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Yes, exactly. Just like Scourge carries bad players to higher ranks because they don't have to think about what they do, Ranger carries bad players to high ranks because they are carried by their pets and sheer overscaled GS damage. Rangers are definitely not unbeatable, I didn't say that and overall I have no more trouble taking them on than any other class. I don't mind dying when I'm being outplayed by someone, I mind dying when I'm completely outplaying someone, do a perfect rotation, completely kitten on them, Mantra their heal, and still die to 18k+ combined pet damage. I should not have to dodge a human player AND an NPC to begin with, I should have to dodge a human player with skills and abilities he actively and dynamically controls. It doesn't matter in that regard whether a player like Boyce can entirely evade a pet during a fight, he shouldn't have to either. 

Pets are overscaled to begin with. No NPC should even remotely stand toe-to-toe with even a Bronze player playing full zerk Power Firebrand. NPCs should never ever be a deciding factor in a Player vs Player confrontation.

if you take 18k dmg from their pet you didnt outplay anything, you tunneled ranger ignored and facetanked their class mechanic and got kitten on for it.
Im sorry to say but if kittening river drake does 18k damage to you, maybe you should learn how to kite the pet

[Matthius.9104]

Getting real tired of these "skilled players" coming into literally every thread with the "git gud" argument. Pets are broken and annoying as kitten to play against and stop trying to say otherwise. If you have to waste dodge rolls vs the pet then you will just have to facetank everything else the ranger shits out. Why defend these braindead class mechanics that have no downside? Stop this virtue signaling kitten that you are better than everyone else because YOU beat a ranger or 2. Plat players need to get off their high horse and quit thinking that everyone values their opinions so much

[SevlisBavles.3059]

14 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

maybe you should learn how to kite the pet

You really aren't reading. It's PvP. PLAYER. versus. PLAYER. Evading an NPC during a fight should never play a role in PLAYER vs PLAYER matchups. The fact that you keep hammering on about HAVING to evade a pet only supports my argument. 

[Khalisto.5780]

well, i agree to certain extent, bunker builds mainly give the "bad player" too much value, you facetank ppl fairly better than you  more than you should.

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

You really aren't reading. It's PvP. PLAYER. versus. PLAYER. Evading an NPC during a fight should never play a role in PLAYER vs PLAYER matchups. The fact that you keep hammering on about HAVING to evade a pet only supports my argument. 

it legit should? pet is a mechanic as any other, one class will but a wall that you need to play around, another will put pulsing aoe, third one will stealth and you have to play around that and ranger has a pet.
the fact that you played differently and position differently against ranger differently is how a game SHOULD work.
You try to approach fighting ranger the same way you approach other classes which is why you get kitten on and complain.
How about you pay attention to your surroundings and what is going on instead off only trying to damge damage damage iterupted his heal! I must win now right? interupting his heal is so hard I deserve to instantly win now.
And its a shame coming from a mesmer player, as you have to fight a mesmer differently too.

[Genesis.5169]

4 hours ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

You really aren't reading. It's PvP. PLAYER. versus. PLAYER. Evading an NPC during a fight should never play a role in PLAYER vs PLAYER matchups. The fact that you keep hammering on about HAVING to evade a pet only supports my argument. 

 

I bet you think your on to something here.

Your not.

No one whose decent at pvp has issues with ranger pets.

Except you it seems.

 

The question is whose wrong the world or you?

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[SevlisBavles.3059]

7 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

I bet you think your on to something here.

Your not.

No one whose decent at pvp has issues with ranger pets.

Except you it seems.

 

The question is whose wrong the world or you?

 

Clearly not since there's plenty of top-level PvP streamers who complain about it as well.

[Cynz.9437]

There will be always complains about balance due to its nature. All the complains about pets aside (lol rangers), what does indeed bother me and also one of the reasons why i barely login anymore is how builds that enable bots to easily farm gold in pvp (hello necros and their xpac variants) still remain untouched and are as viable as ever.

Why does balancing team support botting (at least with their lack of action for really long time now) is beyond me. Are gold farmers healthy for the game in their opinion? Thief one shot builds were deemed broken and got nerfed (which is fine). Builds that allow bots to farm gold successfully are apparently OK. I am truly puzzled.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Cynz.9437

[Disney.7826]

On 9/2/2021 at 3:19 AM, Zinzon.4081 said:

Every single meta build are builds that reward passive play and are just overall batshit easy to play facerolling every enemy. You try to play any sort of class with a minimum of brain power required and it super hard actually climbing with them. You learn skill rotation, skill combo, burst rotation defensive rotation nothing matter, ranger blow up half your health in 1 shot while his pets does 2k autos and yours do 1k2. The state of balance is sad. It didnt even change since the 1 year I was away. Theres no data collected to balance things correctly, like class win rate, build template win rate, weapon combo winrate etc. All in all Anet is still as incompetent as one year ago in balancing and even worst you are coerced to play some classes to actually have a shot at reaching high rank even tough you completely trash platinum player on their class with 10h play and get stomped with your main because of dogshit balance. How can the community endure this?

On top of leaderboard there were always holos prevs and thieves, which are apparently skill builds

 

u are talking about skill rotation in pvp. What do u expect as reward for your skilful play? Demote to bronze?

 

roamers will always have highest winrate because its the best way to carry

Edited September 3, 2021 by Filip.7463

[Leonidrex.5649]

11 hours ago, Filip.7463 said:

On top of leaderboard there were always holos prevs and thieves, which are apparently skill builds

 

u are talking about skill rotation in pvp. What do u expect as reward for your skilful play? Demote to bronze?

 

roamers will always have highest winrate because its the best way to carry

and thats just the truth of it.
Its easier to climb on medicore roamer then on S tier side-noder.
As a roamer you can work around your weaknesses, as a sidenoder you are more or less stuck with what you get.

[Ehecatl.9172]

On 9/2/2021 at 12:47 PM, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

You really aren't reading. It's PvP. PLAYER. versus. PLAYER. Evading an NPC during a fight should never play a role in PLAYER vs PLAYER matchups. The fact that you keep hammering on about HAVING to evade a pet only supports my argument. 

 

So you basically just don't want rangers in your game then, right?

 

Because you know the ranger's core mechanic is having a pet and that the entire class is built around working in tandem with their pet to be able to win fights. It is literally impossible to play without a pet.

 

So you are quite literally arguing every ranger should be a free kill by virtue of their class's core design.

[Guirssane.7082]

River drake hits stronger than my radiance GS guardian

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:51 PM, Cynz.9437 said:

There will be always complains about balance due to its nature. All the complains about pets aside (lol rangers), what does indeed bother me and also one of the reasons why i barely login anymore is how builds that enable bots to easily farm gold in pvp (hello necros and their xpac variants) still remain untouched and are as viable as ever.

Why does balancing team support botting (at least with their lack of action for really long time now) is beyond me. Are gold farmers healthy for the game in their opinion? Thief one shot builds were deemed broken and got nerfed (which is fine). Builds that allow bots to farm gold successfully are apparently OK. I am truly puzzled.

Wait, you want them to balance around bots rather than players? You understand how ridiculous that is, right?