[Unpopular opinion?] Elite specializations should be able to dual wield their one-handed proficiency weapons

[Lonami.2987]

New weapons are pretty much the signature feature of elite specializations, yet for some reason, we're watching them get relegated to a second plane for End of Dragons. We already saw this in Path of Fire as well, but it seems to be turning into a trend at this point.

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Path of Fire

• Elementalist - Weaver: Main-hand sword -> Missing off-hand sword.
•  Mesmer - Mirage: Main-hand axe -> Missing off-hand axe.
• Engineer - Holosmith: Main-hand sword -> Missing off-hand sword.
• Ranger - Soulbeast: Main-hand dagger -> Off-hand dagger previously available.
• Guardian - Firebrand: Main-hand axe -> Missing off-hand axe.
• Warrior - Spellbreaker: Main-hand dagger and Off-hand dagger.

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End of Dragons

• Mesmer - Virtuoso: Main-hand dagger -> Missing off-hand dagger.
• Necromancer - Harbinger: Main-hand pistol -> Missing off-hand pistol.
• Engineer - Mechanist: Main-hand mace -> Missing off-hand mace.
• Thief - Spectre: Main-hand scepter -> Scepter restricted to main-hand usage only.
• Guardian - Willbender: Off-hand sword -> Main-hand sword previously available.
• Warrior - Bladesworn: Off-hand pistol -> Missing main-hand pistol.

---

This raises the question: Why aren't all elite specializations able to dual wield their one-handed proficiency weapons?

We aren't talking about a huge endeavor here, it's 2-3 skill tops for each elite specialization (8 for weaver due to attunements). For example, the Holosmith's off-hand sword could be a spinning reflect on #4, and some thrown boomerang skill on #5.

There are some cases where the theme of the profession might serve as an excuse for this decision, such as the fact guardians can't wield any one-handed weapons in their off-hand, which could justify Firebrand having only main-hand axe (plus, they got 15 tome skills too, so they're more than served). However, this is an exception, not the rule.

You could take this whole conversation further, and ask why core professions don't get any updates. Stuff like mesmer main-hand pistol, thief off-hand sword, revenant main-hand axe... Are we never going to see these, or will they get shoehorned into elite specializations instead of actual new weapons?

For a game so focused on fashion wars, restricting weapon choices feels like such a dumb decision imo.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Lonami.2987

[dodgerrule.8739]

Didn’t want to say anything but the bladesworn doesn’t use a pistol.

[DeanBB.4268]

Limiting the options now extends the future options. IE, they can add the "missing" weapon for a future elite spec.

[dodgerrule.8739]

I do think that they should be able to daulwield like the warrior got with spell breaker.

[Panda.1967]

1 hour ago, dodgerrule.8739 said:

Didn’t want to say anything but the bladesworn doesn’t use a pistol.

You might want to rewatch the reveal video and pay attention to the end… they get off-hand pistol, the gunsabre is their burst replacement.

[DeanBB.4268]

Well, warrior is about the worst example, but if they did give them dual pistols for EoD, that would only leave Scepter, Focus, Short Bow and Staff for future elite specs. Yes that sounds like a lot, but who knows what the future holds? What happens when they run out of weapons?

Still, if they do an elite with main hand pistol, what does it get paired with? Everything off-hand would be melee. Maybe their main hand pistol would be reduced range? So perhaps they should have made the EoD elite spec dual pistols?

[Panda.1967]

24 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

Still, if they do an elite with main hand pistol, what does it get paired with? Everything off-hand would be melee. Maybe their main hand pistol would be reduced range? So perhaps they should have made the EoD elite spec dual pistols?

This is a problem with the weapons being locked to the elite specs… it would be better to have the new weapons fully unlocked when you completely unlock an elite spec… thus allowing use with other specs.

[frareanselm.1925]

I think the usage of weapons available souldn't be tied to a specialization equiped.

Imagine how great and fun would be a pistol/torch harbinger. With the high potential this game has Anet keeps castrating the experience, to keep the user not fully satisfied, and make the buy gemstore things to fill this void.

Edited September 18, 2021 by frareanselm.1925

[Kodama.6453]

Then it would feel even shittier for your class to get an offhand weapon with a  elite spec...

[Knighthonor.4061]

not going to lie, I wanted Warrior Pistol 🔫 for mainhand to run with warhorn 🎺 off hand since I mostly play support in WvW. But the new elite skill may make up for that with more shouts!!!

[Tseison.4659]

I agree only because for the Mesmers I’d like to be able to Dual Wield: Pistol, Axe and Dagger because you know, thematically they make sense 😂 and not sure why they didn’t give us that option to begin with. 

[ShadowInTheVoid.9183]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:16 PM, Panda.1967 said:

This is a problem with the weapons being locked to the elite specs… it would be better to have the new weapons fully unlocked when you completely unlock an elite spec… thus allowing use with other specs.

This seams like a good option, especially given that they could add main and offhand version of a weapon in different elite specs with different themes to give them more variety longer term.

 

There is defiantly professions that could do with more love when it comes to weapons then others though.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Honestly I want to dual wield shield as a chrono

[Smoosh.2718]

On 9/15/2021 at 6:43 PM, Panda.1967 said:

You might want to rewatch the reveal video and pay attention to the end… they get off-hand pistol, the gunsabre is their burst replacement.

I think you missed his joke there. The warriors current pistol can barely be called a pistol since its 240 range, slightly more than a melee attack.

On a side note I was hyped knowing warrior was going to get a pistol to finally use at range in the mainhand, to then see it be a footnote saying 'oh warrior gets a pistol but its not exciting'

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

I think you missed his joke there. The warriors current pistol can barely be called a pistol since its 240 range, slightly more than a melee attack.

On a side note I was hyped knowing warrior was going to get a pistol to finally use at range in the mainhand, to then see it be a footnote saying 'oh warrior gets a pistol but its not exciting'

Sad that you don't find exciting. I think the pistol 4 and 5 combo is quite fun to use.

[Smoosh.2718]

15 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Sad that you don't find exciting. I think the pistol 4 and 5 combo is quite fun to use.

But it barely flows with the mainhand weapon, yes it works well with itself but try use it with an axe, mace or sword. You have to move forwards or use a leap to get closer to attack again, if you're chasing down a target you end up getting stuck in the spot for 1/2 a second. I do not see the niche role this is trying to fill, the one thing warrior was missing from day 1 is a 1 handed range, this was meant to be it.

The skill is interesting to use but so jarring, it misses a lot due to its range limitation of 240.

Honestly if they make the weapon a mainhand increase the range of the Dragon's Roar attach an auto attack this would be fine and would work a hell of a lot better than offhand and fill the gap warrior has been lacking since 2012.

I know Im not alone on this, as this spec has not really bought anything new to the table, we have melee greatsword 2.0 and 3 different flavours of burst. I really was hoping that we were finally going to get a role which had an active support element to it, like slapping down barrier shield generators onto the floor, healing an ally with something that isnt a shout or might.

I invested a lot into the pistol for warrior, I made HOPE over a year back for the warrior (seriously see my previous posts about it). To then see its a melee pistol which does less damage than Axe offhand and the fact you dont get to use it due to Dragon triggers jarring weaponswap CD.

Visually the explosions do look cool, yes I agree. But its not bringing anything new to the warrior as its not ranged.


Honestly I really hope Anet switches the hands for this weapon else this honestly will be the most dissapointing spec for me, i was never hyped for gunblade or greatsword 2.0, it was all about the pistol for me, this is what I was hyped for, to have it ruined by strange design choices.

[Kodama.6453]

10 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

But it barely flows with the mainhand weapon, yes it works well with itself but try use it with an axe, mace or sword. You have to move forwards or use a leap to get closer to attack again, if you're chasing down a target you end up getting stuck in the spot for 1/2 a second

You don't have to immediately use 5 again after reloading with 4. You can also use 5 for the damage + trait proc, then 4 to reload 3 ammo and close the gap immediately. You don't really lose ground that way unless your target is really mobile (but other offhands would lose you ground then, too).

The reload time for one ammo of 5 is 5 seconds. So loading from your refilled 3 ammo up to the full 6 again takes 15 seconds... which is exactly the cooldown of skill 4. You don't have to use skills off cooldown, I found that using it the way I described is also quite good if the situation calls for it, even if it gives you less trait procs then.

10 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

I do not see the niche role this is trying to fill, the one thing warrior was missing from day 1 is a 1 handed range, this was meant to be it.

It is a damage and utility weapon combined, since it can proc your ammo traits frequently if desired and also gives you aegis for a quick block, while also dealing good damage.

Axe is pure damage, it doesn't provide utility. Warhorn and shield are pure utility without damage. Pistol serves as a middle ground to these.

10 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

The skill is interesting to use but so jarring, it misses a lot due to its range limitation of 240.

I don't see it this way, honestly. But I was not as much attached to the thought of warrior needing a one handed ranged weapon....

 

10 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

Honestly if they make the weapon a mainhand increase the range of the Dragon's Roar attach an auto attack this would be fine and would work a hell of a lot better than offhand and fill the gap warrior has been lacking since 2012.

Don't see them making such drastic changes to the weapon. Bladesworn is obviously intended as a melee spec, so making pistol ranged also doesn't make much sense with the intended spec playstyle.

 

10 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

I know Im not alone on this, as this spec has not really bought anything new to the table, we have melee greatsword 2.0 and 3 different flavours of burst. I really was hoping that we were finally going to get a role which had an active support element to it, like slapping down barrier shield generators onto the floor, healing an ally with something that isnt a shout or might.

It isn't as obvious a support as stuff like druid, but it clearly has some support potential. Shout builds with it seem promising and it also has a spammable projectile block it can use from range.

People tend to say that support spellbreaker is better, but I don't see why. Spellbreaker mostly adds personal defense for the warrior, but doesn't provide much to support allies. Bladesworn gives benefits to the shout build by making the healing and supportive shouts more spammable.

10 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

I invested a lot into the pistol for warrior, I made HOPE over a year back for the warrior (seriously see my previous posts about it). To then see its a melee pistol which does less damage than Axe offhand and the fact you dont get to use it due to Dragon triggers jarring weaponswap CD.

I understand that it is frustrating that pistol didn't turn out the way you wanted it to, since you invested in the legendary weapon. But this does not mean they have to rework it....

 

10 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

Honestly I really hope Anet switches the hands for this weapon else this honestly will be the most dissapointing spec for me, i was never hyped for gunblade or greatsword 2.0, it was all about the pistol for me, this is what I was hyped for, to have it ruined by strange design choices

As said, I don't believe they will make such major changes now. I honestly don't consider these strange design choices. The entire ammunition synergy is really cool for me, I enjoyed it quite alot. And if I am honest, even if I personally was in the staff camp for warrior as a spear replacement, when I knew that warrior gets pistol, I was already expecting it to be melee. It meshes well with the class identity and fantasy and also is an unique niche for the warrior, pistol, since all other pistols (including the new harbinger pistol) are ranged weapons.

Warrior using the pistol in melee makes it unique.

[Lonami.2987]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:49 PM, DeanBB.4268 said:

Well, warrior is about the worst example, but if they did give them dual pistols for EoD, that would only leave Scepter, Focus, Short Bow and Staff for future elite specs. Yes that sounds like a lot, but who knows what the future holds? What happens when they run out of weapons?

Still, if they do an elite with main hand pistol, what does it get paired with? Everything off-hand would be melee. Maybe their main hand pistol would be reduced range? So perhaps they should have made the EoD elite spec dual pistols?

Four weapons are more than enough for the future, plus they can always create new weapon types, such as 1h spears or 2h polearms.

On 9/20/2021 at 9:25 PM, Tseison.4659 said:

I agree only because for the Mesmers I’d like to be able to Dual Wield: Pistol, Axe and Dagger because you know, thematically they make sense 😂 and not sure why they didn’t give us that option to begin with. 

Also, the amount of work in these cases (2-3 extra skills) is ridiculously low. Let people have fun.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Lonami.2987

[Zenith.7301]

Mainhand dagger with no matching offhand is what's making Virtuoso so unappealing, and is what made Soulbeast awfully unappealing to begin with. Nobody likes to be mainhanding a dagger with a sword or pistol as an offhand.

 

What's worse, slashing your dagger into the air to create pink Soraka bananas peaks at a new level of aesthetically unappealing. The animations for mesmer mainhand dagger suck, if it at least adopted the mesmer greatsword model of a levitating magical weapon it would look a lot better.

[Lonami.2987]

Updated the first post with Mechanist (mace) and Specter (scepter).

On 10/16/2021 at 9:42 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

Mainhand dagger with no matching offhand is what's making Virtuoso so unappealing, and is what made Soulbeast awfully unappealing to begin with. Nobody likes to be mainhanding a dagger with a sword or pistol as an offhand.

 

What's worse, slashing your dagger into the air to create pink Soraka bananas peaks at a new level of aesthetically unappealing. The animations for mesmer mainhand dagger suck, if it at least adopted the mesmer greatsword model of a levitating magical weapon it would look a lot better.

100% agree. In the case of the soulbeast, I think they should have moved off-hand dagger skills to off-hand sword, and made off-hand dagger exclusive to soulbeast, with new skills just like main-hand dagger's.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Lonami.2987