Vindicatior Rating Poll

[Saleos.8975]

Feedback thread is a good thing, but it will soon become flooded with a lot of info and opinions.

I think it would be more appropriate and easy for A-net to understand players opinion about Vindicator if we bring them some statistics on what to focus 😄

So please concider sharing your thoughts in this poll even if you already replied to the thread above.

 

P.S. just noticed the same type of thread in elementalist section, so please check it out too and vote 😄

Edited September 28, 2021 by Saleos.8975

[Jthug.9506]

Imho, if they split forerunner of death to increase pve dps performance, rework the urn of saint viktor so it sucks less, fix the bugs around tenacious ruin the new dodge so you can't be cced or dpsed while up there, add some hard cc somewhere in the legend, and make the f2 better then I would be satisfied.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Jthug.9506

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

39 members isn't representative, that's the only good point for ArenaNet, because the poll is terrible.

• 55% think Vindicator is bad or worse

• Changes most wanted concerns the split mechanism (F2 included)

• 1 vote excepted, none is going to use Vindicator for PvE end contents

• 37,5% (More than one third) don't know how or if they will play Vindicator

 

I really hope ArenaNet will react to the bad reception of Vindicator.

[Axl.8924]

I really do like vindi, but there are a few things .

 

Its kinda irritating using a skill someone else pointed this out and it switches like when i use spear of archemon and it switches from alliance i think it was? to dwarf stance Sometimes you don't want that.

I think maybe the jumping thing either needs to be put so it loses evade and gains vigor or changed. The more i think about it, the more i think it will probably never get more vigor due to the evades and how OP it would become in PVP and pve with infinite evades. If you are to suport with barrier, it would help if you healed with barriers more so to differenciate itself from herald and perhaps focus on the stuff that makes it unique. Herald has access to resolution resistance alacricity strong heals and strong condi cleanse. Vindi has might gen barriers regen and a few other boons. Urn of saint victor could prob be changed since it costs energy and damages you. Personally i'm not a representative of revs as a whole since i didn't play a whole lot, but i played some herald on the beta to compare and played more of vindi. i did fractals, and focusing also on offensives, since vindi is a hybrid should prob also focus on some of its offensives.

 

Some skills could use adjusting form gs, because they do feel a little bit need but they are generally good unlike ele's catalyst which feels like it needs way more help.

[Mordeus.1234]

I just can't get my head around the utility flipping thing. It's so easy to lose track of what's going on and feels like an unnecessary addition on top of everything else. Not to mention that it encourages you to go dps/healer hybrid to make use of it all. I was hoping to be able to go strictly Archemorus/Shiro or Viktor/Ventari but instead it feels like playing a more chaotic Weaver. I really don't understand why it can't be a simple legend swap via the F2.

[Jthug.9506]

On 10/2/2021 at 7:46 PM, Mordeus.1234 said:

I just can't get my head around the utility flipping thing. It's so easy to lose track of what's going on and feels like an unnecessary addition on top of everything else. Not to mention that it encourages you to go dps/healer hybrid to make use of it all. I was hoping to be able to go strictly Archemorus/Shiro or Viktor/Ventari but instead it feels like playing a more chaotic Weaver. I really don't understand why it can't be a simple legend swap via the F2.

My take on it was that it is quite powerful in small scale competitive mode like pvp or wvw roaming, but that for comped wvw or pve you just don’t want to use the legend. In small scale it’s nice to have 3 stun breaks, and extra mobility and self boons and healing even if your build is purely damage oriented. But that stuff is simply not very helpful in any kind of organized group, and so I personally found myself using shiro/jallis exclusively in wvw and pve. Maybe if the quickness from legendary alliance could be shared, it would be different.

[Shao.7236]

Most of my complains will come from the jankiness it currently has on GS skills, Blocking acting unatural and is too loud, 2nd skill AoE effect is misleading, 3rd skill distance lies and is extremely small, 5th skill is supposed to act like a meteor shower but right now it operates by randomly tracking and quickly spamming all over the place when it's supposed to last way longer.

 

F2 consuming energy is too much, it should only consume enough if people trait for the skills to be all reset. F2 on core rev literally gives a buff relevant to the legend and more energy, just giving endurance doesn't justify an energy cost.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

It seems anet kinda butchered the majority of the class concepts and implementations lol none of them seem to know what they want to do or have too many limitaitons/obstacles to get any of it done. In terms of the vindicator, everything just feels weak and unimpactful in my short time of using it. My issue with the whole dodge thing is most encounters are balanced around having two dodges and being able to use those to survive. Not only have they taken away one dodge, they made the dodge remove you from combat for a brief period significantly reducing dps which is the name of the game. The heal dodge only works due to not needing to have consistant dps for its role and that it requires half the energy of a normal dodge effectively making it as usable as the regular two-dodge bar that is baseline, albeit not being able to use two dodges one after another, but the rate of dodging is still the same. It does look really cool though so props for that.

On to the greatsword. It's a simple weapon that seems only adequate for taking out trash mobs and meta events. It doesn't do anything really fancy and won't be taken over sw/sw for any dps purposes. It's only use is really for cleaving which is fine I suppose since it is a weakness of revs current options, but added with the rest of the espec it just feels dissapointing because the rest of the kit feels wonky.

On to the legends(s).  The flip mechanic is dual legend thing is just a convoluted mess. Maybe it's one of those things that it'll just take a second to click once we become familiar with the skill bar and it becomes second nature, but right now it feels like fighting through a thicket of bull-ish just to use skills. I feel like there aren't going to be many instances that can actually take advantage of having both bars and ultimately one of the bars is going to be completely ignored and thus just kinda of get in the way. 

Now the new "mechanic" if you can call it one. Well with this spec the dodge and dual legend have invented all these new and uneccesary problems, so the great idea for a mechanic is a one hit button to effectively diminish the negative side effects that the dodge and legend present. Only issue is that it drains half of your starting energy and there is no way on god's green earth that you'll be using the alliance stance and flip the skills because you'll either A) be out of energy when you need it or B) need the energy to use skills and so pressing the button will make you unable to use the skills you flipped to. It's just bad design. Literally making it free with no energy cost would in no way make it too strong. The energy cost just makes it useless. 

I'd go onto the traits but idk I have few thoughts on those. They are very oriented to the dodge but the only issue is the dodge is rarely usable outside of the heal dodge and the dodge is in no way a defining strategy because it can only be used so sparingly, again except for the heal dodge.

So all in all we get a class focused on a cool dodge and a weird alliance stance that really doesn't feel like it brings anything to the table outside of a bunch of headaches and a more complicated way to play painted with some flashy effects. You can say the same for catalyst too.

[lunaeclipse.6843]

Personally, the Vindicator felt really good to me. Im absolutely not going to deny it felt undertuned, especially in PvE But I think a big reason for that was exactly the 3s Dodge. 3 seconds of no damage is a big, big dip in overall DPS.

 

On topic of Dodges: the biggest issue i think Vindicator has is the evasion windows don't line up with the animations. The only dodge that seemed wo line up accurately with the animation was Saint's Shield. Im unsure if this was just a bug but im hoping it get ironed out. Personally, I would really like to see the dodge's all have the same animation times, with the same evasion windows, but have the dodge costs buffed to 50/75/100 instead of 50/100/150. So each dodge is still the standard 3/4s, with 3/4s animation, but the cost (and therefore cooldown) increases.

 

The Greatsword felt amazing. I am so, so hyped for the Greatsword. It's everything i wanted. Taking the greatsword into a push in WvW was devestating. Pulling off GS5 in a zerg was insanely satisfying. I do wish GS4's counterattack had a bit more radius though; it was quite hard to land. Greatsword overall compliments Hammer very well in WvW and the PvE rotation, while undertuned, was fun and fluid imo.

 

The Traitlines are really interesting to me too. It pretty well established with herald that a condi/boon build already exists but i think Vindicator will be able to pull it off too with its traitline. I think it could be able to sustain 25 might on 5 targets as opposed to herald being 10 target, but not full capping + other boons.

 

Overall Solid 8/10 from me. Just needs some fixes and damage buff in PvE. I am very excite!

[Jah Warrior.9682]

Vindicator needs some solid buffs and a serious look at the traits. It attacks too slow, has no cc, legend that is a mess, a dodge that costs too much and recharges way too slow without forcing you to respec, and a lot less damage than most other power specs. There's a lot of missed potential currently that need a lot of love and attention before it can accomplish what anet promoted it to be. Revenant needs a good greatsword power spec, not this. A solid 3 out of 10. 

[Buran.3796]

   The most clear things I got from the meta are that I would never use the Alliance legend and probably won't use also the F2. This isn't related of how strong ends being, because Kalla is meta for Renegade in PvE and I dislike the summon mechanics so much that I never use it, no matter how strong they buff Kalla. The same happens with the Alliance: I don't like the lore, I don't like any of Kurzik's skills, I don't like neither of the elites so Vindicator (if used) NEVER will deploy those two in any builds of mine.

  Now, abut the use of the spec in game modes...  I will give Vindicator a chance to be used in PvP and roaming, but I'll ditch it if proves being less viable than the other builds we already have. In PvE, I'll complete the EoD maps (and maybe some of the core maps) with the Vindicator in one of my three Revs, but if falls behind the condi builds in OW PvE (and that seems to be the most ceratin outcome), I'll ditch the spec entirely.

   On paper the Vindicator seems fun, but we are trading a "F" skill for a worse alternative, we are trading evades for a "jump" which isn't clear if will work in PvE (dps loss?) or PvP (too predictable?) and we are trading strong traitlines for one which at best, can be used to mitigate the lack of conventional evades.  The greatsword utterly lies about the reach of its abilities and demands brutality + celerity sigil in order to not feel as clunky as the hammer. 

   To be honest the new spec adds very little to the class: most of the animations are stolen from other classes, and the jumps seem as bugged as most of the things in the spaghetti coding in the Revenant. The main theme is "cleave strike damage", but the damage is weak at the moment. Could work as a bruiser? No idea: I felt tanky in the beta but most of other specs had crap damage, and with the GS we have the same problem Rev had before the short bow: 0 pressure agaist foes at range. And double sword at least has better gap closer (I found gs + staff better than gs + doeble swords, at least vs players).

[Dahkeus.8243]

My votes and reasoning:

1) Average (hard to say... it's just... strange)

Overall, the spec has a great thematic design and isn't necessarily bad, but needs substantial work in some areas to be worth using.  The potential is there though.

 

2) Dodge mechanics

The dodge is definitely awkward, particularly because it takes so long to perform.  It also has some issues with leaving you vulnerable when the evade frames don't last as long as the animation.  Even if the evade lasted the full duration, it's still very awkward and puts too long of a pause in the gameplay loop to be enjoyable.

F2 skill (only)
This co-incides with the next selection (so, not necessarily "only").  However, even outside of the issues I describe for the next section, it's in a rough spot similaryly to how the Untamed mechanics have problems with how it interacts with non-hammer weapons. 

Having this skill only provide endurance when not in the Vindicator legend just feels wrong.  It feels incomplete and really seems to just be discouraging you from using it at all when you're in a non-Vind legend.

Utility skills flip mechanics

The F2 could be reworked substantially to solve some of the flip skill issues, but it still really feels like there should be two F-skills.  One should allow you to reset your skills to damage-focused and the other should allow you to go defense-focused.  Without something like this, there's just too much control lost to perform your offensive/defensive direction. 

This is most apparent with the elite when you are running a offensive-oriented build.  If you are running offensively, the defensive elite is just an obstacle to being able to use your elite.  There's almost no value with holding the ashes with offensive stats and you're forced to sacrifice time and health to get to the spear, making it practically worthless overall unless you blow your F2 cooldown because you can't just quickly burn your defensive elite flip to get back to the spear.

 

3) It won't be fun to use anywhere in it's current state...

The elite spec has potential; particularly in PvP as a sort of brawler and maybe even in PvE as a DPS or healer with enough balance/rework.  However it doesn't really add much to the toolbox of Revenant in a way that's entirely appealing.  I love my Revenant, but if I stick with Rev main in EoD, I don't see myself using Vindicator in any aspect of the game for any reason.

 

One positive I will add is that I think the Greatsword is done pretty well.  It's a bit basic since it feels a lot like the Ranger/Warrior greatsword design, but the skills are designed well.  In particular, I love not getting stuck in animation with the mobility skill like the Ranger/Warrior skills do.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Honestly it would be cool if the GMs would basically remove one faction of the alliance. So the heal dodge removes archemorus and you have SV only, while the offensive dodge removes SV and you keep Archemorus. The middle choice keeps the switching going.

 

This could be a nice middle ground tbh instead of making two separate legends.