Specter not viable in Raids and Fractals?

[Asum.4960]

39 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

That's how it works for "up to 3 targets" but not for more. Quickness is applied on hit so you would have to use it way more often to cover a 5 man group let alone a 10 man group (which you could never fully cover since you would be always excluding yourself) which is not susuainable with 100% uptime for "everyone".

At 14-28 seconds of Quickness every 6 seconds (1 Initiative per second) to 3 Targets, even with 0% BD, 0% Initiative gain, it's perma Quickness on a 5 man Group (excl. self) 

Excluding yourself from Quickness doesn't matter though if it's still higher group DPS than competing support combos, since you can run 4 DPS + hybrid Specter, rather than Alac+Quick+3 DPS. 

That's on top of Specter having access to Portal+Blink skips to speed up general clear times with things like the old Chrono skips.

 

As for being meta, we will have to see how much DPS support/hybrid Specter does in practice (and how clunky the beam targeting will be). In terms of being viable as high end group support, it clearly is in it's current form though.

 

/E:

It's also possible that the 3 player Target Cap only applies to the Beam on top of the selected Target it's connected to, or that we can just drag the beam through allies (or it prioritising new Tagets in a stack per individual hit) granting Quickness to everybody (7-8 allies) with every skill use, both of which could leave even more Initiative over for sustained use.

You'll likely want some BD for Alac on Wells anyway, so maintaining Quickness should be easy with plenty Initiative to spare for 5 player support.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Asum.4960

[HotDelirium.7984]

4 hours ago, Eleandra.4859 said:

Please do not forget that Spectre will be the only support in the game that has to de-target an enemy and stop its damage completely to provide a big part of the specialization's support.

This makes the spectre:
1. The only single target support in a game where (nearly) everything else is aoe.
2. The only support that needs to stop dps 100% (apart from condis ticking) to provide a big part of its support in a world where all the other support specs buff their whole group (or even squad) by doing an enemy focused rotation.
3. The only support spec that does not support itself.

To me this does not bode well and feels like the ANet devs did the worst thing a developer can do: "Falling in love with their own (bad) idea".

Cal Cohen even mentioned that the team was aware of the fact that the concept might be interesting but could be too limited.

In a different game, this elite might have been great or at least interesting but in GW2, based on the admittedly limited data we have at this time I guess it will be DOA.

Let us hope that Anet will either realize that putting a self-absorbed, pseudo-immersive, green field elite into a game with as much legacy as GW2 or that they are aware of the fact that Spectre (and many of the other EoD elites) have severe mechanical issues and limitations that do not work in a world with POF and (to a lesser extend) HOT elites in the game.

The main concern I have is that this is not a numbers (quantitative) issue that can be tweaked later on, the complete mechanical setup of the class is against the design philosophy of 9 years of GW2. If this means ANet is going to change their design philosophy and retroactively change a lot of stuff in the game I would be happy but I guess that is not going to happen.

For me the idea that Cal Cohen brought up during the elite preview "a bunch of Spectres all buffing up the WVW Commander" to keep them alive by it should have been a very clear red flag that the elite spec design team is running in a very wrong direction.
 

They should take the idea from the new Sage in FF14 where they "mark" their main receiver of beneficial support. They can mark themselves too. So unmarked anyone- more DPS. Marked self-more survivability. Marked tank or fellow adventurer-bonus support. Trying to find and click the same person over and over again while worrying about reflects or projectile blocks is going to be an absolute nightmare. 

[Esorono.1039]

It's not likely to be firebrand/scourge/renegade levels, but assuming that targeting won't be hell on allies like I am fearing it will be, especially in Action Combat, they should still be pretty decent at support. Alacrity, quickness, barrier, venoms, rot wallow, and healing are all really decent support options. With enough concentration, keeping up perma Alacrity and quickness is possible with the current numbers. Though what worries me most is the targeting, and the fact that you have to stop DPSing to apply the quickness. I am not sure how I feel about that in groups. Being able to share venoms as well will be also rather neat. Assuming it isn't clunky as hell, I'd say it will be a solid B to A- tier support.

[ASP.8093]

(With the caveat that I haven't played it yet, since none of us have, of course…)

 

I feel like we have a better model for how to do "your attacks do ally support" already — the Mesmer staff bounce. You could keep the enemy/ally mechanical dichotomy and improve ease-of-use by just adding some bounce to the scepter projectiles.

Encounter against a lot of trash mobs? You're spreading AOE DPS to help burn them down faster (something thieves outside Staff Devil usually struggle with a bit).

Group fight against a solo boss? You hit the boss once for modest DPS and then spread heals/barrier and venom to several team mates.

(Playing solo? Use Scepter auto to put conditions on groups. Switch to a set like P/D to do more single-target damage. If your projectiles can bounce to self then possibly that's how you can do a bit of tanking in solo play as well.)

Edited October 23, 2021 by ASP.8093

[Gatvin.6510]

It seems a bit premature for complaining about the spec when they haven't done any tests on it yet.

 

That said, its always been the blindspot in thief design. Thief gets to be highly conditionally like 10% better than other classes at damage output in exchange for losing 80-90% of the area coverage and most of the defensive utility other classes get. Its never been a good deal. Everything you try to do with a thief, you need to solve a numbers optimization problem, master very specific timings, and your reward is, you get something roughly as good as the average build from any other class. I HOPE that won't be the case here, but I also spent all of PoF hoping they would fix Deadeye rifle's coverage issues, and they don't really even acknowledge its a problem.

[Infusion.7149]

Late to this thread but for me it's the most interesting spec in EoD. All the pDPS specs aren't that interesting when you look past the DPS numbers ; harbinger has cDPS but the shroud seems counterintuitive for how I'd play (I'd rather run cQB or quickness scrapper and possibly StM chrono in a few situations) ; catalyst has a whole host of issues.

As far as instanced PVE I could see it being stronger in raids due to tanking mechanics while in fractals you would need some micromanagement to target people that need additional support.

Shadow shroud is torment focused which means against broken defiance bars it will be quite potent. If you try to run it as full DPS then probably it will act similar to condi scourge. Panaku's Ambition as a minor trait makes added utility to stealth beyond skips , barrier on stealth makes it actually useful in PVE.

Since Second Opinion converts 7% condition damage into healing power, unlike power-based healers on harrier it has massive potential in plaguedoctor, seraph, or other stat types with condition damage. Just note it is  possible to run full plaguedoctor cQB and achieve 30K DPS , plaguedoctor scourge right now is ~27K DPS, and seraph hybrid firebrand is ~24K. Especially in fractals where barrier is better than straight healing due to -70% healing from agony this has ability to see some adoption as cDPS.

---

Currently I'm thinking Seraph/Plaguedoctor and tormenting runes, Scepter+Dagger with Well of Bounty (boons), Well of Sorrow (condi DPS), Skale Venom, Shadowfall/Basilisk Venom
Traits:

• Deadly Arts (3-2-1) --- Deadly Ambition (+120 condition damage, poison on dual attacks) , Panic Strike (immob applies poison) , Potent Poison (poison does more damage)
• Trickery (3-3-3 or 3-3-2) --- Thrill of the Crime for added boons, Pressure Striking for more torment, Deadly Ambush for stronger bleed on "Steal" / Siphon or Sleight of Hand for reduced "Steal" recharge
• Specter (1-1-1) --- Second Opinion (condition damage to healing power), Larcenous Torment (20% torment damage buff), Strength of Shadows (13% Vitality to expertise , Rotwallow Venoms do more torment)

Edit: @ ASP

Seraph (with sword instead of scepter as placeholder) which already has 42% boon duration
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAwiFYn4Yb9D-zRJYoRDfJ49A-e
* Add 120+ 7% of condition damage (1468 before food/utility) = +222 healing power or ~856 total healing power and the +20% heal modifier from Dark Sentry
* 13% vit to expertise = +130 expertise / 8.67% condition duration on top of the 60% torment duration you get from runes

There isn't a payoff for crits so see Plaguedoctor which already has 42% boon duration
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgiFYn4Yb9D-zRJYvRDfJ49A-e
* 13% vit to expertise = +282 expertise = 18.8% condition duration

You gain nothing as far as boon duration from celestial while losing nearly half the condition damage because cele doesn't have condition damage as a major stat. Barriers don't benefit from boon duration.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[ASP.8093]

12 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Since Second Opinion converts 7% condition damage into healing power, unlike power-based healers on harrier it has massive potential in plaguedoctor, seraph, or other stat types with condition damage.

Realistically, I think like 95% of Specter builds will be Celestial. It's just not worth it to run Condition Damage without Expertise, or Healing Power without Concentration. As long as the class has a decent way to stack enough Might to make Cele worthwhile in the first place, both the Healing Power trait and the Vitality-to-Expertise conversion trait also significantly improve Cele.

[Sons.5493]

Let me post this quick rotation, and maybe some ppl will change their mind on the capabilities of this spec.

Assuming full Plaguedoctor, Monk runes and 10% BD and healing sigil. Scepter/pistol.

 

SA 3/2/2

TR 3/1/2

SCPTR 3/3/3

2 Wells and shadow refuge

 

3>3 (20ish secs of quickness for 3 allies) >Siphon enemy > stealth attack > boon well > 3 > 3 > 5 > enter shroud > blast smoke field with 2 > leave shroud > stealth attack > poison well > Shadow refuge > stealth attack > start over

 

Everytime you use a well you burst your shield thatu just gained from the stealth attack, which applies leeching venoms and torment. Stealthing allies both with shadow refuge and black powder + shroud blast also gives them barrier which also applies venoms. 

 

This can effectively generate perma alac, perma quickness for everyone except you in 5 man content which deploying an decrnt amount of shields and heals (3 also shields aka more venoms). 

 

This is just a rough rotation to show u can provide a lot without targeting specific party members. And the only real drawback is ppl not going in the quickness beam which I'm sure won't happen that much since ppl are already stacked in general.

[Sons.5493]

1 hour ago, Esorono.1039 said:

It's not likely to be firebrand/scourge/renegade levels, but assuming that targeting won't be hell on allies like I am fearing it will be, especially in Action Combat, they should still be pretty decent at support. Alacrity, quickness, barrier, venoms, rot wallow, and healing are all really decent support options. With enough concentration, keeping up perma Alacrity and quickness is possible with the current numbers. Though what worries me most is the targeting, and the fact that you have to stop DPSing to apply the quickness. I am not sure how I feel about that in groups. Being able to share venoms as well will be also rather neat. Assuming it isn't clunky as hell, I'd say it will be a solid B to A- tier support.

You don't have to stop attacking when applying quickness because scepter/pistol 3 applies 7 stacks of rot wallow which if you are hitting 3 allies translates to 21 stacks of torment 🙂

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Sons.5493 said:

Let me post this quick rotation, and maybe some ppl will change their mind on the capabilities of this spec.

Assuming full Plaguedoctor, Monk runes and 10% BD and healing sigil. Scepter/pistol.

 

SA 3/2/2

TR 3/1/2

SCPTR 3/3/3

2 Wells and shadow refuge

 

3>3 (20ish secs of quickness for 3 allies) >Siphon enemy > stealth attack > boon well > 3 > 3 > 5 > enter shroud > blast smoke field with 2 > leave shroud > stealth attack > poison well > Shadow refuge > stealth attack > start over

 

Everytime you use a well you burst your shield thatu just gained from the stealth attack, which applies leeching venoms and torment. Stealthing allies both with shadow refuge and black powder + shroud blast also gives them barrier which also applies venoms. 

 

This can effectively generate perma alac, perma quickness for everyone except you in 5 man content which deploying an decrnt amount of shields and heals (3 also shields aka more venoms). 

 

This is just a rough rotation to show u can provide a lot without targeting specific party members. And the only real drawback is ppl not going in the quickness beam which I'm sure won't happen that much since ppl are already stacked in general.

That's an interesting take on a more support-oriented specter. I guess your shadow arts based play there is stacking spider venoms in stealth?

Any reason you run Shadow Arts 3-2-2 instead of 3-2-3? I think in fractals in particular with No Pain No Gain or Vengeance it would be better to be able to rip 2 boons than the meager one initiative you get on stealth attack? I guess the way you propose is stronger in competitive modes such as PVP/WVW but then again you would need more defensive utilities and torment isn't that great in general against moving targets.

As CMC stated in stream he doesn't believe alac well specter is going to be a thing since you need quite a few wells. It would likely shore up any alac downtime instead at best, so I feel 20% torment damage bonus and shadow force on torment application is far stronger from Larcenous Torment.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Nomad.4301]

The way I see Specter before having actually played it is an attempt at doing what the old support Chronomancer builds used to do in fractals, back when you would run Chrono + Druid.

In other words the Specter would be there for alacrity and a smattering of other boons + a little quickness but mainly it would be a hybrid condi DPS, unfortunately the only gear set that currently exists that gives condi and Boon Duration is Plaguedoctors, which is less-than ideal for DPS, hopefully there will be a new stat set in EoD that will help with this something like ++Condi Damage, +Expertise, +Boon Duration.

Unfortunately the Druid + Chrono meta died a long time ago in fractals, being replaced by the more efficient FB + Renegade, so at BEST I would expect Specter to be an alternative to DPS alacrity renegade rather than actually being a full healer, at least as long as Anet expects us to be a single-target healer, which just really doesn't work in Guild Wars 2.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Nomad.4301

[Vidit.7108]

It's got a lot of plus sides, I'm not saying it doesn't in the right group comp. I wish we could fast ward to launch so we know for sure what the boon durations are going to look like. I guess you have vigor which is okay but not great. As it stands Thrill of the Crime probably gets you to full fury uptime and I'm not sure how much might it can really provide on it's own. 

1 hour ago, Sons.5493 said:

And the only real drawback is ppl not going in the quickness beam which I'm sure won't happen that much since ppl are already stacked in general.

Do you pug t4's as a healer? I can't get Scourges to stand in front of me let alone stack. It's still got some problems in the stability department that are necessary for grouping up and keeping people in boon range.

 

15 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Any reason you run Shadow Arts 3-2-2 instead of 3-2-3? I think in fractals in particular with No Pain No Gain or Vengeance it would be better to be able to rip 2 boons than the meager one initiative you get on stealth attack

Core Thief can already boon steal all those boons on a boss with Bountiful Theft with full uptime I believe. Still works with Siphon.

[Sons.5493]

26 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

That's an interesting take on a more support-oriented specter. I guess your shadow arts based play there is stacking spider venoms in stealth?

Any reason you run Shadow Arts 3-2-2 instead of 3-2-3? I think in fractals in particular with No Pain No Gain or Vengeance it would be better to be able to rip 2 boons than the meager one initiative you get on stealth attack? I guess the way you propose is stronger in competitive modes such as PVP/WVW but then again you would need more defensive utilities and torment isn't that great in general against moving targets.

As CMC stated in stream he doesn't believe alac well specter is going to be a thing since you need quite a few wells. It would likely shore up any alac downtime instead at best, so I feel 20% torment damage bonus and shadow force on torment application is far stronger from Larcenous Torment.

I just wanted to showcase that there can be powerful rotations without the need of constantly clicking on your ally. I'm sure some traits will be more powerful here and there as u mentioned in the SA Traitline for fractals.

The point of the venom trait is making rot wallow venom leech since you will apply it extremely often with this rotation. The spider venom is just the cherry on top. But if it turns out the heal on shadowstep heals more (which I heavily doubt) then thats also an option.

 

Also cmc never mentioned that there won't be a well alac, he said u prolly won't run full well which is true because as it currently stands with 50% boon duration you need 3 Wells to achieve more than 100% uptime on alac, 6 seconds from 3 Wells with a cd of 15 seconds... you do the maths 🙂

[Sons.5493]

17 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

 

Do you pug t4's as a healer? I can't get Scourges to stand in front of me let alone stack. It's still got some problems in the stability department that are necessary for grouping up and keeping people in boon range.

 

I dont but I dont doubt you in the slightlest, I guess we can atleast move a bit while channeling and hopefully ppl learn  that beam = good

[Tails.9372]

4 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

You'll likely want some BD for Alac on Wells anyway, so maintaining Quickness should be easy with plenty Initiative to spare for 5 player support.

No it's not, expect for your targeted ally everybody else (exept you) is going to get between 9-18 seconds of quickness on average leaving you with 12 ini for 15 sec with max BD or 3 ini for 6 seconds with no BD which makes 100% uptime unpractical if you're running an offensive build and still leaving you mostly initiative starved for other things if you're running a support build meanwhile even a cele Harbinger offers better more reliable quickness uptime without having to gut most of its offensive capabilities for it.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Asum.4960]

37 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

No it's not, expect for your targeted ally everybody else (exept you) is going to get between 9-18 seconds of quickness on average leaving you with 12 ini for 15 sec with max BD or 3 ini for 6 seconds with no BD which makes 100% uptime unpractical if you're running an offensive build and still leaving you mostly initiative starved for other things if you're running a support build meanwhile even a cele Harbinger offers better more reliable quickness uptime without having to gut most of its offensive capabilities for it.

I seriously don't understand how you end up with 9 seconds of Quickness from a Skill that applies 7 packets of 2 seconds of Quickness with 0% BD, let alone 100%.

 

Additionally, Specter doesn't have to gut it's offensive ability for that - even if you almost exclusively spam the Quickness skill on allies while AA'ing, it also applies 7 Barrier packets to all allies hit, meaning 7 Rot Wallow Venoms per player, meaning 21 Stacks of Torment with 6sec base duration for every Quickness application.

 

Meanwhile Harbinger loses a lot of DPS as well for doing Quickness, does not provide Alacrity, aka. you have to sacrifice more group DPS to get another Alac support in there rather than another full DPS, does not spam barriers and AoE heals meaning you probably want a full support with it for the average group, esp. since Harbinger itself is extremely Squishy, and it doesn't allow for Portal/Blink skips like Specter, speeding up general clear times as well. 

 

Unless Specter just completely falls apart in actual playtesting come Tuesday (which is a possibility considering past EoD specs), on paper there is no way for Harbinger to compete with Specter in this, or seemingly any, regard (aside from ease of use). 

 

And sure, instabilities like Social Awkwardness might be a problem in terms of Quickness application for Spectre, but frankly, considering Harbinger has <4k HP with the Frailty instability due to how it stacks with Blight and will get oneshot constantly in Fractals with no blocks, barrier, Shroud, Prot or passive damage mitigation in the kit, that's still better. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Tails.9372]

27 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

I seriously don't understand how you end up with 9 seconds of Quickness from a Skill that applies 7 packets of 2 seconds of Quickness with 0% BD, let alone 100%.

Because per hit only 2 of the 3 remaining players get the boon so they get on average ≈9-18 seconds of quickness (assuming an equal distribution between them).

[Asum.4960]

17 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Because per hit only 2 of the 3 remaining players get the boon so they get on average ≈9-18 seconds of quickness (assuming an equal distribution between them).

We still have to test if the 3 player target cap is the whole ability or just the beam, it could be targeted ally + 3 with beam. 

But even if not, you could just prestack Quickness at the Mistlock Singularity for all, then every ~6-9 seconds use Endless Night for Quickness, Barrier, Regen and DPS (through Rot Wallow Venom), while using Wells for Alac and mostly AA's and Shroud inbetween. 

 

You don't really need Initiative for anything else. 

 

So again, even with 0% BD (which you won't have in Fractals with potions and mastery) that easy 100% uptime, while DPS'ing with Rot Wallow Venoms through Barrier, AA's and Shroud. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Tails.9372]

23 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

But even if not, you could just prestack Quickness at the Mistlock Singularity for all, then every ~6-9 seconds use Endless Night for Quickness, Barrier, Regen and DPS (though Rot Wallow Venom), while using Wells for Alac and mostly AA's and Shroud inbetween. 

 

You don't really need Initiative for anything else.

Spamming AAs when you could be using a proper damage skill is a massive DPS loss, you also need initiative to apply might, to do BB damage and to build up SS as your allies don't count for that.

One thing we don't know yet is if you can give the boons if your allies walk into the beam while you're targeting an enemy so we have to see about that but I almost doubt it as that would also mean that there is a chance that they would be able to block your other skills as well which could lead to various issues depending on some other interactions.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Tails.9372

[ASP.8093]

Bit of theorycrafting (note that this is assuming the build in the demo had 0 Concentration — an assumption I'm making because we saw 10 sec of 5 Might on Steal, which is the baseline value you get from the Even the Odds trait):

 

All Celestial gear. Scepter/Pistol with a Sigil of Concentration. Runes of Leadership (or, possibly, Runes of the Firebrand). +80% boon duration before food or fractal buffs.

 

Trickery 3-1-2: Stealing gives the team 18 sec+ Fury, Might, Swiftness, Vigor on a <20 sec cooldown.

Shadow 3-2-{x}: you can use a Stealth Attack every time you use Steal or your Heal Skill; I'm assuming Leeching Venoms will have some synergy with Rot Wallow Venom.

Specter 1-3-1: 6+ sec Alac on each well; compensates some for your low Healing Power stat.

Skills: Well of Gloom, Well of Bounty, Well of Sorrow, {X}, Basilisk Venom.

 

What's the point of all this?

* Zero investment in Shadow Shroud. It's nice but we are simply not counting on it for our basic rotation.

* 3 Wells with 20-second cooldowns: that's 100% Alacrity uptime on 5 people, including yourself.

* Use Well of Bounty after Steal: the boon priority means your well will grant ~7 sec Quickness every 18 seconds. (Caveat: if people don't already have Quickness. This isn't as easy to stack as it is on Firebrand.) Importantly, this will also apply ~9 sec Protection and Resistance.

* Endless Night (Scepter/Pistol 3 turn-over skill): probably awkward to use but grants 7x 3.5 sec Quickness to up to 3 allies.

* You can go into stealth for free once per 10 seconds by using your Steal or Heal skills. This is your main "burst heal" for specific allies who mess up some mechanics or lack personal sustain.

* Most of your rotation is moderate condi DPS.

* Extra initiative can go into Scepter 2 to self-stack some long-lasting Might, but I suspect going all-in on Endless Night will be the preferred play.

* Breakbars: Basi Venom, or pop into Shroud for skills 3+5.

* Against big clumps of enemies, you can also use Shroud for some quick 25-Might-stacked AOE condi spam.

 

What it's got:

100% Alacrity easily.

A lot of Quickness, in a way that's hard to quantify, possible 100% uptime for four people if you stagger it well.

100% uptime on Fury, Vigor, Swiftness, Regeneration.

~40% uptime on Protection and Resistance.

Good breakbar damage.

Condi damage via personal output and group buffs.

2 big spot heals every 20 seconds.

Condi cleanse hiding all over the place in weird little pockets.

Boon rips — highly relevant in a lot of Fractals.

Some group Might generation, but I don't think it's a lot?

 

What it's missing compared to other supports:

Easy reactive on-demand Stability/Aegis (the Stability/Aegis you do put out has quite a "windup" required).

Big bursts of Burning, which is the best condition for exploiting the breakbar damage bonus.

Maintaining 20-25 Might stacks all by yourself.

Unique buffs (like Assassin's Presence, Perfect Inscriptions, or banners).

Edited October 24, 2021 by ASP.8093

[Zergs.9715]

What some people are missing here is that you don't have to interrupt your attacks to support. Other people are your weapons! They are your mediums through which you deliver damage to the target. As long as you're pumping barrier onto them they will transfer your torment to the target.

 

Spectre basically received the ultimate pet! ^_^

 

What I find more worrying is that 1 second cooldown on a Dark Sentry trait. I don't know how much damage will you be able to deliver because of it.

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, Tails.9372 said:

Spamming AAs when you could be using a proper damage skill is a massive DPS loss, you also need initiative to apply might, to do BB damage and to build up SS as your allies don't count for that.

One thing we don't know yet is if you can give the boons if your allies walk into the beam while you're targeting an enemy so we have to see about that but I almost doubt it as that would also mean that there is a chance that they would be able to block your other skills as well which could lead to various issues depending on some other interactions.

What "proper damage skill" are you proposing to spend initiative on, that isn't Endless Night with it's 21 Rot Wallow Venoms through barrier anyway, which is the skill that gives Quickness? 

 

For building up Shadow Shroud you got traited Wells which you need for Alacrity anyway and ofc Siphon. For CC you then hop into Shroud for the Fear and Stun, while also being able to fit in a Headshot while still keeping up Quickness.

 

Might will have to be a group effort with BiP/Heroic Command etc. anyway, like current no-heal comps.

 

If you are targeting an enemy with Endless Night I'm pretty sure the attack and beam both change to the Torment and Slow attack, but considering that the Allied Targeted variant does vastly more Torment via Rot Wallow Venoms in group situations anyway (7 Torment against enemies vs. 21 Torment from Rot Wallow Venom applied to allies through barrier), I can't see why you would want to target an enemy with it. 

 

Same for Auto attacks, which apply 3 seconds of Torment to enemies, or Barrier + Rot Wallow Venom (6.75 second base Torment) to allies. There is no reason to attack enemies in group play. Just AA and Endless Night Allies.

 

/E:

Actually just now saw that Dark Sentry has a 1 second ICD (or that part was missing before on the wiki), which means far less DPS Output on allied targeted Endless Night in particular (3 or 9 Venoms/Torment, depending on ICD/per target interaction), but targeting allies is still preferable, especially as boon support ofc. 

Otherwise that skill would have been way OP tbf.

/E2:

Nvm, the Dark Sentry ICD is not on the Venom application, but use. So Endless Night on allies is indeed busted and grants 7 Venoms to all allies hit, with "attacking" allies being strictly better than targeting Enemies, even for full DPS builds.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

14 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The main combo the specter bring to it's party is Scepter AA granting barrier to allies around the impact. Granting allies barrier grant them a venom that apply torment on hit (minior trait). Venoms leech life from shadow art.

You grant barrier, make people apply ton of torment for you, add to their damage and heal them by just waving your wand. Use siphon once in a while to grant might/fury/vigor/swiftness. And if it's not to demanding you can even add some utility skills to the mess (Well to provide Alac or more venoms for condi damage and party life siphon).

It's definitely a solid support/dps for PvE 5 man content. Honestly I'm not even sure why they even put a shroud that support a single ally on top of that (maybe for PvP in order to add to the "+1" job).

...Are you sure?  Last I checked, the scepter didn't give barrier to allies around the impact.  The AA is single target, so it either strikes an enemy, or it supports a single ally.  Even then, Rot Venom has an ICD of 1 second between application, so rapidly applying barrier to an ally is going to do less damage than just attacking by yourself.  

[Geoff Fey.1035]

Couldn't the "heal everyone,extra become barrier" and "share your own barrier with everyone" (appears that if you have 1000 barrier, everyone gets 1000 rather than 250) plus all the conditions and a bit of alacrity added on the side actually be pretty good with proper timing? 

As well, tether the squishiest person on the team--they can go 100% glass and you'll keep thrm alive and AoE support everyone else

I get the feeling they were trying to make it slightly compete as a BarrierScourge-Alacren-Healbrand without 100% invalidating those builds in Fractals.

The biggest part is seeing how the condi side turns out. The sheer number of conditions is high but the damage looks so-so.

If you gain Shadow Force from Rot Wallow Venom on allies that might spike the recharge so you can Shadow-Healshare-Overheal=Barrier repeatedly to the point where it'd provide more healing/security than Aegis+heals

[MatyrGustav.6210]

well if it fails, a simple change can be made. 

All allies near your tethered target also receives all support effects and healing.

 

For balancing if needed, the healing can be split to x amount of allies near your tethered target.