"New" Kaineng

[The Greyhawk.9107]

5 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

Our eyes must surely see the shades of colors differently. But in any case, even if you find it closer to green, it is much more pleasant to watch than the fluorescent green of the golem or the one of the fractal

 

 

Yes I agree with you on everything you say except the echovald forest. I find the few images we had a little more reassuring than the rest, it looks quite close to guild wars 1 with more vegetation.

For example, the fort Aspenwood is exactly the same style as in gw1:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/43/7/1635711461-echovald.jpg

we will know more in 2 weeks

That image does look nice and I do agree with you about the Jade in gw1, it was much less saturated and 'florescent' and did at times have a slightly blue-ish or perhaps turquoise tint to it, though I think the lighting on specific maps might have had something to do with that.

[EdwinLi.1284]

3 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

That image does look nice and I do agree with you about the Jade in gw1, it was much less saturated and 'florescent' and did at times have a slightly blue-ish or perhaps turquoise tint to it, though I think the lighting on specific maps might have had something to do with that.

It was the lighting, location, and design choice.

Darker areas and spots with less jade mining had the jade look more blue-ish but areas with more light and had jade being mined had the jade show off more green but a bit of blue can still be seen.
 

They actually had certain area mix the blue-ish and green jades as well. I think the designers back then were trying to emphasize on the raw jade appearance and refined jade appearance.

Raw jade is not as green as people will say it is since it needs to be refined into the green jade look. The Green Jade we see being used by Machinist and in the Jade Tech we see in the EoD trailer are actually the refined form of jade which is why it is so bright green since any impurities have been removed and magically energy inside them is probably making them brighter. Raw Jade is a bit mix of blue and green (other colors as well based on location where it is formed) based on how it was formed before being discovered.


----------------------------------

This is quite important because it is a detail I think not many noticed being the location being mined in GW1 for Jade is most likely chosen to have more green jade because these locations had higher amount of jade purity. The greener the jade the purer it was so ideally, these locations will be targets of jade mining. They even worked around locations that had high impure jades in the location they were mining the jades.

This does go back to GW2 being that the Jade we see in Jade tech is all pure green which means they must have gone through refinement process to remove impurities to be pure green jade.

Raw Jade that have not been mined and not gone through refinement process should be a bit more impure by appearance thus should keep a more blue-ish appearance but with a slight hint of green while a bit noticeably green if it is more pure when raw.

We do see what looks like a factory in one of the Arts for EoD. It is possible the factory shown could be a Jade refinery to convert raw jades to refined jades.
 

Edited November 1, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Dami.5046]

13 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

Our eyes must surely see the shades of colors differently. But in any case, even if you find it closer to green, it is much more pleasant to watch than the fluorescent green of the golem or the one of the fractal

 

 

Yes I agree with you on everything you say except the echovald forest. I find the few images we had a little more reassuring than the rest, it looks quite close to guild wars 1 with more vegetation.

For example, the fort Aspenwood is exactly the same style as in gw1:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/43/7/1635711461-echovald.jpg

we will know more in 2 weeks

The cynic in me saw Tarir being re skinned for where house zu heltzer would of been and the underwater areas 'perfect' for the old buildings to be, well 'underwater' . The Big tree in the new trailer looks like the Big tree in the ogre area in Tangled Depths.  

However, if those screen shots are what we are getting in game, then I will be looking forward to see more. 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

19 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

I don't find it green at all, or really very discreetly. I almost only see blue in this video.

Afterwards, not all eyes see colors the same way. But in any case, we are very far from the green of guild wars 2

 

That blue tint is mostly caused by shadows. Put teal in poor lighting and it'll look blue. Or green in poor lighting, and it'll begin looking teal.

I'd also be unsurprised if that particular spot has some filters and blue lights going on, because 90% of the Jade Sea doesn't look like that in GW1. Even the shots before and after look solidly green/teal, and that spot from the world map is completely the same coloring as the rest of the Jade Sea.

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

That blue tint is mostly caused by shadows. Put teal in poor lighting and it'll look blue. Or green in poor lighting, and it'll begin looking teal.

I'd also be unsurprised if that particular spot has some filters and blue lights going on, because 90% of the Jade Sea doesn't look like that in GW1. Even the shots before and after look solidly green/teal, and that spot from the world map is completely the same coloring as the rest of the Jade Sea.

yep it really is a mixture of lighting, location, and design choice.

In more older videos we can see both blueish and green color based on location. 

However, the design choice is quite important because jade does not start out as green as certain people think it does when it is found raw. Which is why I do hope they get the Jade sea right in the game and not make it all pure green since raw jade is not that color until it goes through a refinement process.

It needs to go through a refinement process to reach the green look we see it as both in real world accessories and in the game's appearance for Jade tech. Not to mention how much Jade a person get out of a raw jade is based on their purity. Only very pure jades is when people will see more green when found raw. The greener the jade the more valuable it is since it means the jade is more pure and has less impurities. Jade mining does require a lot of work around to get to spots where the more pure jades are because impure jades don't hold much value. In GW2 case, most likely the pure jades are just better magic conductors for Jade tech but it should still be a lot of work just to find proper pure jades when mining it among all the impure jades.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Fueki.4753]

16 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Not to mention how much Jade a person get out of a raw jade is based on their purity.

But we also need to question, how pure is the Jade Sea's jade in the first place?

Was only the water turned in jade, with the salt dissolved in it being an impurity? Did the salt turn into jade, too?

What about of the excrements and other secretions of the sea life?

In comparison to real raw jade, sediment shouldn't impact the purity of the jade all that much, especially if the sea bed is deep below the dig site.

We also know that animals didn't turn into jade either, so they are not impurities and shouldn't affect the colour too much either.

Since animals are no impurities, One can assume plant aren't either.

I can't see too much that could lower the purity of the jade, so the Jade Sea being rather green wouldn't be too unreasonable.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:34 AM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I hope you're wrong about Cantha being "High-Tech", not interested in a Asian-Cyberpunk setting in GW (or any Cyberpunk for that matter).

Thank you. 👍 We are on the same boat here (pun intended).

On 10/29/2021 at 7:34 AM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

More than a few people that recently have been bringing up the 250 year time difference between the two games seem to think that GW1 was set in the 1700s or something.

GW1 was definitely much, much closer to Earth's Middle Ages (let's say 10th/11th century) than to the Age of Enlightenment (18th century).

That means that cyberpunk technology would be a huge leap in time, if we talk Earth-like timeline. Absolutely abhorrent, if you ask me. I didn't get into GW2 to have a weird mix of widely spread eras and genres forced down my throat years later just because the devs and writers, at some point, couldn't come up with more decent classic fantasy settings despite "dragons."

(It already took me some time to get used to the Charr's "industrialization" and basic Asuran magi-tech. That's really my pain threshold there.)

Edited November 1, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

However, the design choice is quite important because jade does not start out as green as certain people think it does when it is found raw. Which is why I do hope they get the Jade sea right in the game and not make it all pure green since raw jade is not that color until it goes through a refinement process.

Well, no. The name "The Jade Sea" comes from the color jade, not the material. The place was water first, and called the Jade Sea long before being solidified. It was a twist of irony that the sea named "the Jade Sea" got turned into green jade.

The sea itself was a greenish sea.

The Kurzicks of Echovald Forest and the Luxons of the now literally named Jade Sea have regained a great deal of their former independence,

[...]

Unable to farm for themselves in forests turned to stone or to fish in seas that have become jade, they instead compete for the jade itself and the rare mineral found within it. This jade then provides for the needs of their people, in theory. In practice, it appears that the corruption endemic to the bureaucracy has spread, resulting in more destructive mining practices, and more border skirmishes than ever

[...]

The Jade Sea's name became distressingly literal as the waves crystallized and were transformed.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Empire_Divided

Keep in mind, the jade from the jade sea is not actual jade, it's magically made jade. All that refining stuff you're talking about is 100% irrelevant because this jade != that jade.

It's water that was turned into (gem)stone, which happens to be the same hue of green jade.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 10/30/2021 at 10:30 AM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

I not trying to be rude to you but I have to say this. 

I feel not getting the expansion just because Cantha society did not develop the way you wanted it to is a bit extreme just to preserve the idea of how you wanted Cantha to advance over what was chosen. 

Wanted to comment on this, but not liking something isn't just a perfectly viable reason to not buy it, but it is the best reason.

Just because you love a book, doesn't mean you're going to love the movie or show adaptation of it. Say your favorite book gets an adaptation announced - you're excited, ecstatic even. But then you find out that something in it was altered to satisfy someone's headcanon, and it totally clashes with your own interpretation or the blatant subtext of that "something". You're not going to be excited for that adaptation anymore.

Is it then wrong to not want to pay to see it?

No. It's perfectly viable to not pay for what you don't like.

 

What would be wrong is insulting others for liking what they don't like, which happens a bit too often in the fandom, but not something I'm seeing Greyhawk do. Equally wrong is insulting others for simply having a different interpretation of canon lore or having a different opinion on how a what if scenario would go.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Wanted to comment on this, but not liking something isn't just a perfectly viable reason to not buy it, but it is the best reason.

Just because you love a book, doesn't mean you're going to love the movie or show adaptation of it. Say your favorite book gets an adaptation announced - you're excited, ecstatic even. But then you find out that something in it was altered to satisfy someone's headcanon, and it totally clashes with your own interpretation or the blatant subtext of that "something". You're not going to be excited for that adaptation anymore.

Is it then wrong to not want to pay to see it?

No. It's perfectly viable to not pay for what you don't like.

 

What would be wrong is insulting others for liking what they don't like, which happens a bit too often in the fandom, but not something I'm seeing Greyhawk do. Equally wrong is insulting others for simply having a different interpretation of canon lore or having a different opinion on how a what if scenario would go.

As I said I am not trying to be rude towards him nor insult him on his choices. It has always been the best option to not buy something you won't like. However, I also support the ideal that we can't really judge a book by their cover since experiencing something and seeing something usually are difference experiences and sometime they may like it if given a chance.

Both options have risks since a person may not like the experience but sometimes we never really know for certain ourselves until we actually experience the thing.

Edited November 1, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Well, no. The name "The Jade Sea" comes from the color jade, not the material. The place was water first, and called the Jade Sea long before being solidified. It was a twist of irony that the sea named "the Jade Sea" got turned into green jade.

The sea itself was a greenish sea.

The Kurzicks of Echovald Forest and the Luxons of the now literally named Jade Sea have regained a great deal of their former independence,

[...]

Unable to farm for themselves in forests turned to stone or to fish in seas that have become jade, they instead compete for the jade itself and the rare mineral found within it. This jade then provides for the needs of their people, in theory. In practice, it appears that the corruption endemic to the bureaucracy has spread, resulting in more destructive mining practices, and more border skirmishes than ever

[...]

The Jade Sea's name became distressingly literal as the waves crystallized and were transformed.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Empire_Divided

Keep in mind, the jade from the jade sea is not actual jade, it's magically made jade. All that refining stuff you're talking about is 100% irrelevant because this jade != that jade.

It's water that was turned into (gem)stone, which happens to be the same hue of green jade.

In advance sorry for two separate posts for two different comments but currently typing on my phone. That aside...

 

Note quite as it is still relevant because not all aspect of the sea was turned into magical jade. Only the water was affected which leaves a lot of minerals and other things mixed into the jade which will need to be separated to make it pure magical jade. It is why mining in the right spot is important since the locations are most likely containing more higher concentration of jade that does not have a lot of minerals and other things mixed into it.

[EdwinLi.1284]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Thank you. 👍 We are on the same boat here (pun intended).

GW1 was definitely much, much closer to Earth's Middle Ages (let's say 10th/11th century) than to the Age of Enlightenment (18th century).

That means that cyberpunk technology would be a huge leap in time, if we talk Earth-like timeline. Absolutely abhorrent, if you ask me. I didn't get into GW2 to have a weird mix of widely spread eras and genres forced down my throat years later just because the devs and writers, at some point, couldn't come up with more decent classic fantasy settings despite "dragons."

(It already took me some time to get used to the Charr's "industrialization" and basic Asuran magi-tech. That's really my pain threshold there.)

We need to include the effects of asura tech left behind in GW1 as well. I suspect the golem design being close to GW1 golem is a bit more than just because reasons. Asura tech was left behind in cantha during gw1 and if they studied them then there would have been a technology advancement skip due to how advance the gw1 golem were still back in GW1.

[radda.8920]

34 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

As I said I am not trying to be rude towards him nor insult him on his choices. It has always been the best option to not buy something you won't like. However, I also support the ideal that we can't really judge a book by their cover since experiencing something and seeing something usually are difference experiences and sometime they may like it if given a chance.

Both options have risks since a person may not like the experience but sometimes we never really know for certain ourselves until we actually experience the thing.

 

Afterwards we are already starting to know a lot about this extension: we have seen all the specializations which are mostly bland and uninteresting to play, we know that there will be no raid and fractal so all the HM content will be determined by the strikes, we also know that shing jea does not look like anything on gw1 and is even much uglier with awful colors, there is no pvp, no new race and no new class,  a more than laughable feature: fishing ...

 

So personally on my side, my purchase will be 100% based on the content of the strikes  and the look of the next maps. If it doesn't look like the cantha that I used to know, I'll skip my turn.

Edited November 1, 2021 by radda.8920

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

43 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

In advance sorry for two separate posts for two different comments but currently typing on my phone. That aside...

 

Note quite as it is still relevant because not all aspect of the sea was turned into magical jade. Only the water was affected which leaves a lot of minerals and other things mixed into the jade which will need to be separated to make it pure magical jade. It is why mining in the right spot is important since the locations are most likely containing more higher concentration of jade that does not have a lot of minerals and other things mixed into it.

Sure, but the point was that refinement isn't necessary for a green jade - that's the natural state of this particular jade. And there'd be plenty of areas where it's just pure water-turned-gemstone.

45 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

We need to include the effects of asura tech left behind in GW1 as well. I suspect the golem design being close to GW1 golem is a bit more than just because reasons. Asura tech was left behind in cantha during gw1 and if they studied them then there would have been a technology advancement skip due to how advance the gw1 golem were still back in GW1.

There wouldn't really be much. The asura showed up not long before the Ministry of Purity's increased xenophobia, and the only asura magitech we saw was P.O.X. and maybe (canonicity in question) an asura gate.  And I'm not so sure the gw1 golems were all that advanced since the manual description is:

Constructed out of stone, vegetation, and other semi-natural materials

And were just powered and controlled by power crystals in arrays.

Which, honestly, is not very different from Shiro'ken, except for the power source (souls versus some unclear kind of magic). And that's not very "techy".

Which was the great thing about core asura magitech. It was more magi than it was tech. It eventually veered way off that with plot device inventions for the sake of plot devices and sudden leaps and bounds of advancements done with the excuse of "Rata Novus discovered! Ley lines discovered!".

[Poormany.4507]

5 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

There wouldn't really be much. The asura showed up not long before the Ministry of Purity's increased xenophobia, and the only asura magitech we saw was P.O.X. and maybe (canonicity in question) an asura gate.  And I'm not so sure the gw1 golems were all that advanced since the manual description is:

Constructed out of stone, vegetation, and other semi-natural materials

And were just powered and controlled by power crystals in arrays.

Which, honestly, is not very different from Shiro'ken, except for the power source (souls versus some unclear kind of magic). And that's not very "techy".

I also don't think there was much Asuran contribution (maybe some inspiration here and there, but no major direct contributions) - The trailer text from Joon seemed to allude to jade tech being developed pretty rapidly ~100 years or so ago and largely independently by Cantha:

" Look around us. Your children would be trapped in the past if not for me. Their worlds are carved from the jade that I gave purpose. I promised them a future. A century of progress cannot end this way."

I'm guessing we'll find out in EoD exactly what it was that happened 100 years ago that enabled jade tech. Maybe something with DsD?.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[Dami.5046]

The whole point is it won't look like what GW's Cantha looked like. Take core maps, how different are they to the first game? They even put areas i consider iconic, such as ToA as an underwater HP. I mean really.

I fear that certain areas - Harvest Temple i'm looking at you - will have the same fate and will be some underwater HP or PoI. 

I hope that Kaineng isn't any 'punk' and they have made it into a refreshing modern looking city with no gimmicks. Tall buildings, maybe a hint of what was there before, flashing neon sighs , roads.

yeah I said roads. I have no issue with the next mount being a car.🤪

[Faridah.8431]

In GW1, portions of the city were technically on fire including Nahpui Quarter and the Xaquang Skyway above The Undercity. Obviously it didn't "spread" within the realm of how maps worked in GW1, but lore wise its not hard to imagine that the fires really devastated large portions of the city that were effectively poorly built slum shacks on top of each other with the only mitigation I could see being the large walled canal areas separating portions of the city. Its possible entire GW1 maps worth of the city simply burned down.

Combine that with later flooding from the Rising of Orr event and it's possible that huge areas of the city had to either be rebuilt, or else abandoned and other unaffected portions of the city not explored in GW1 (the big swath going down from Nahpui Quarter along the western coast for example, were developed as "New Kaineng".

Will be interesting to see how that plays out. We don't know at this point.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[EdwinLi.1284]

2 hours ago, Dami.5046 said:

The whole point is it won't look like what GW's Cantha looked like. Take core maps, how different are they to the first game? They even put areas i consider iconic, such as ToA as an underwater HP. I mean really.

I fear that certain areas - Harvest Temple i'm looking at you - will have the same fate and will be some underwater HP or PoI. 

I hope that Kaineng isn't any 'punk' and they have made it into a refreshing modern looking city with no gimmicks. Tall buildings, maybe a hint of what was there before, flashing neon sighs , roads.

yeah I said roads. I have no issue with the next mount being a car.🤪

They called it New Kaineng so most likely old Kaineng still exists but if they continued building upward as we know well in GW1 was their thing when they expanded the city by building over the older parts of Cantha city then Old Kaineng should still be there but maybe under New Kaineng.

13 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

I also don't think there was much Asuran contribution (maybe some inspiration here and there, but no major direct contributions) - The trailer text from Joon seemed to allude to jade tech being developed pretty rapidly ~100 years or so ago and largely independently by Cantha:

" Look around us. Your children would be trapped in the past if not for me. Their worlds are carved from the jade that I gave purpose. I promised them a future. A century of progress cannot end this way."

I'm guessing we'll find out in EoD exactly what it was that happened 100 years ago that enabled jade tech. Maybe something with DsD?.

 

I think that is a very important factor in the trailer we need to keep a eye on. The rapid advancement of Cantha is obviously been greatly influenced by a outside influence that is giving them knowledge way ahead of their time. We don't know who or what it is yet but we just now he or she exists due to EoD trailer. 

I personally think it maybe something beyond in the Mists.

Edited November 2, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Faridah.8431]

6 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

They called it New Kaineng so most likely old Kaineng still exists but if they continued building upward as we know well in GW1 was their thing when they expanded the city by building over the older parts of Cantha city then Old Kaineng should still be there but maybe under New Kaineng.

What is "Cantha City"?

[EdwinLi.1284]

5 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

What is "Cantha City"?

It is just the name I call the entire Kaineng city as a whole since names always gets mixed up back in GW1 days between Kaineng City and Kaineng Center. There was a lot of ground to cover back then after all. 


Now with the city probably expanding upward, we have to add in probably New Kaineng and Old Kaineng to the list of things to determine what area of Kaineng City as a whole we are talking about.
 

Edited November 2, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Faridah.8431]

3 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

It is just the name I call the entire Kaineng city as a whole since names always gets mixed up back in GW1 days between Kaineng City and Kaineng Center. There was a lot of ground to cover back then after all. 

 

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Super Hayes.6890]

For those that want GW1 Cantha, go play GW1 and visit it again. I am expecting a GW2 Cantha, whatever that may be. I am sure there will be nods to the first Kaining City but this is a different game. Set your expectations accordingly. I look forward to having fun with many of you in that game. I hope Greyhawk joins us too 😉

[Fueki.4753]

29 minutes ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

For those that want GW1 Cantha, go play GW1 and visit it again. I am expecting a GW2 Cantha, whatever that may be. I am sure there will be nods to the first Kaining City but this is a different game. Set your expectations accordingly. I look forward to having fun with many of you in that game. I hope Greyhawk joins us too 😉

However, if it's too green and shiny, it'll actually detract from that fun.

[radda.8920]

1 hour ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

For those that want GW1 Cantha, go play GW1 and visit it again. I am expecting a GW2 Cantha, whatever that may be. I am sure there will be nods to the first Kaining City but this is a different game. Set your expectations accordingly. I look forward to having fun with many of you in that game. I hope Greyhawk joins us too 😉

 

We are not asking for the same thing, obviously there will be changes in 250 years as in POF.
We just want to feel the same atmosphere, the unique style of cantha, the same soul , the same kind of brightness and sensation.
You can make the buildings and the environment evolve while keeping the same unique style.

If they make the extension to cantha, it’s to attract the fanboys of this place so what’s the interest to totally change the atmosphere...

Especially since right now, it’s to do something much uglier than the original. I went back to visit shing jea on gw1 and it is a thousand times more enjoyable to watch than the presentation of shing jea in video of gw2.
You can upgrade a place without turning it into a filthy green fluorescent dung, you know.

 

For the moment shing jea is an insult to gw1 players, simply. We’ll see the other 3 maps.

Edited November 2, 2021 by radda.8920

[EdwinLi.1284]

2 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

We are not asking for the same thing, obviously there will be changes in 250 years as in POF.
We just want to feel the same atmosphere, the unique style of cantha, the same soul , the same kind of brightness and sensation.
You can make the buildings and the environment evolve while keeping the same unique style.

If they make the extension to cantha, it’s to attract the fanboys of this place so what’s the interest to totally change the atmosphere...

Especially since right now, it’s to do something much uglier than the original. I went back to visit shing jea on gw1 and it is a thousand times more enjoyable to watch than the presentation of shing jea in video of gw2.
You can upgrade a place without turning it into a filthy green fluorescent dung, you know.

 

For the moment shing jea is an insult to gw1 players, simply. We’ll see the other 3 maps.

Is it because they made the grass too green and added a lot of green jade color and paintings on building and etc around Shing Jea Islands?

I remember back in GW1 there was signs of attempt to design the island to have a lot more plants if they could but graphics and limits of GW1 engine and computer system of that era probably limited how much they could have added into the Shing Jea Island.

GW2 graphic style of trying to reflect paintings made 3d could have also affected the coloring of places as well which I know certain people will not like since the painting art style would make certain aspect of color way too bright. 

The Plant life around Shing Jea Island is not a issue for me anyways since it is how I imaged Shing Jea Island to be like if GW1 never had their graphic limits but ya the buildings has a bit too much emphasis on green jade coloring. 

They can tone down the green brightness a bit but guess they had a lot of focus on certain  ancient china building designs.

https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/52/fe/3f/52fe3fc046740996feca5f81f8c295d3.jpg

Edited November 2, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284