Question shouldn't DH be overhauled if its so problematic?

[Axl.8924]

I saw peeps asking for buffing and others removing so how come they haven't done anything like that? such as give mobilioty speed from something so  guardians can get maybe superspeed for a few seconds when they are moving after doing something?

[Axl.8924]

I dunno why i got the confused emoji but if DH is so problematic that without scrapper rune it cannot function, how come they haven't incorporated it into DH skill tree itself  or overhauled its weapon and passives? or is it unneeded?

Edited October 26, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

I dunno why i got the confused emoji but if DH is so problematic that without scrapper rune it cannot function, how come they haven't incorporated it into DH skill tree itself  or overhauled its weapon and passives? or is it unneeded?

It's trapper rune that PVP players are complaining about, scrapper rune just gives damage reduction.

[Axl.8924]

9 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's trapper rune that PVP players are complaining about, scrapper rune just gives damage reduction.

Ok i meant trapper rune why don't ANET in all their wisdom do something to make it so DH in separate DH like gets superspeed for like 4 sec or something when using something and remove trapper rune? or is there something else that got peeps upset as well?

I just want to see DH improved if it can for PVP to make fun for guardian players without having to get a rune of trapper to hold itself by a very thin string for PVP.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Infusion.7149]

16 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Ok i meant trapper rune why don't ANET in all their wisdom do something to make it so DH in separate DH like gets superspeed for like 4 sec or something when using something and remove trapper rune? or is there something else that got peeps upset as well?

I just want to see DH improved if it can for PVP to make fun for guardian players without having to get a rune of trapper to hold itself by a very thin string for PVP.

Or they can just put an ICD on trapper rune like every other rune with an effect...

[Axl.8924]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Or they can just put an ICD on trapper rune like every other rune with an effect...

But it sounds as if DH has more issues than that for pvp if its such a issue that it hangs on a string.

I could and most likely am wrong though since i don't know anything about DH especially not in pvp i was just curious i guess.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Axl.8924

[medivh.4725]

I thought I would enjoy the DH but I didn't. Instead I reverted to core guardian. LOL
The DH definately got problems and anet should listen and address them. 

[Axl.8924]

Thats what i'm as

14 hours ago, medivh.4725 said:

I thought I would enjoy the DH but I didn't. Instead I reverted to core guardian. LOL
The DH definately got problems and anet should listen and address them. 

Thats what i'm asking the community medivh it seems like the spec has problems if it has people complaining about viability without trapper rune when folks cry for removal of trapper rune, which is why i asked why don't they just add trait.

 

 

[medivh.4725]

42 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Thats what i'm as

Thats what i'm asking the community medivh it seems like the spec has problems if it has people complaining about viability without trapper rune when folks cry for removal of trapper rune, which is why i asked why don't they just add trait.

 

 

Not sure is it really the rune or right hand side skills. But the auto attack didn't do it for me, and was already written on a DH related post back then after trying on DH. Mentioned was the arrow attack seem broken. Is legethic. Both in action and speed of projectiles. It could have exploded on impact. Allowing conditions to land on hit. There seem problem with the reach not hitting tower guards from ground dispite being in unobstructed proximity of about 900.  Not as enjoyable soon I dropped long bow and DH. To my knowledge the DH thing seem to work using traps and trap related runes, with lots of luring in WvW. Say for instance lay traps by the castle entrance etc. Not really working out in PvE per say. You got to make it fun if people were to take it up. If it is supposed to kill dragons hence titled as Dragon Hunters. Don't see much dragon hunting techniques other then traps traps and traps. In my humble opinion, DH could use some oversized heavy chains to secure its large prey as they're suppose be hunting dragons.

Edited October 28, 2021 by medivh.4725

[Sonork.2916]

They just need to balance stealth and have it not be the best + least counter-playable defensive ability in the game. 

But they won't.

[otto.5684]

Trapper rune and DH existed for 6 years. Only Anet absolute failure forced this design to be a thing post Feb 2020. I don’t see DH needs any rework, except LB. it is the entire pvp design that needs an overhaul. You cannot balance anything around the current pvp dumpster fire.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:31 PM, Axl.8924 said:

I saw peeps asking for buffing and others removing so how come they haven't done anything like that? such as give mobilioty speed from something so  guardians can get maybe superspeed for a few seconds when they are moving after doing something?

A lot of PvP balance discussions can be attributed to two thought processes:

 

Process 1:

* I don't play X

* I get beaten by X

* I have an overblown opinion of my own skill and therefore I can't accept the possibility that I was simply outplayed.

* I also fail to recognise that X may be specifically countering my build and might be easily defeated by other builds.

* Therefore, I conclude that X must be overpowered.

 

Process 2

* I play X

* I do not win as much as my overblown opinion of my own skill makes me think I deserve to.

* I also do not recognise that people beating me may be playing builds that are counters to my own but may be countered in turn by other builds.

* Therefore I conclude that the problem is that X is underpowered.

 

With both in play, a choice being in a healthy balance state usually results in a mix of people claiming it's OP and people claiming it's UP, with the former usually outnumbering the latter because there are generally more people who don't play X in PvP than those who do.

 

Which is not to say that this is always what's going on, but generally speaking having some people claiming something is OP and others claiming it's UP is part of the background noise of balance discussions. Often the real indication of a problem is when one side or the other just disappears.

[Axl.8924]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

A lot of PvP balance discussions can be attributed to two thought processes:

 

Process 1:

* I don't play X

* I get beaten by X

* I have an overblown opinion of my own skill and therefore I can't accept the possibility that I was simply outplayed.

* I also fail to recognise that X may be specifically countering my build and might be easily defeated by other builds.

* Therefore, I conclude that X must be overpowered.

 

Process 2

* I play X

* I do not win as much as my overblown opinion of my own skill makes me think I deserve to.

* I also do not recognise that people beating me may be playing builds that are counters to my own but may be countered in turn by other builds.

* Therefore I conclude that the problem is that X is underpowered.

 

With both in play, a choice being in a healthy balance state usually results in a mix of people claiming it's OP and people claiming it's UP, with the former usually outnumbering the latter because there are generally more people who don't play X in PvP than those who do.

 

Which is not to say that this is always what's going on, but generally speaking having some people claiming something is OP and others claiming it's UP is part of the background noise of balance discussions. Often the real indication of a problem is when one side or the other just disappears.

So its fine then?

[Obtena.7952]

7 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

So its fine then?

Maybe, maybe not ... but the process you come to either conclusion is important. The person you are replying to shows they understand this because the path you get to concluding whether it's fine or not also affects the implementation of the change. This thread is a great example because it's not clear if the problem is the runes or the spec. 

[Axl.8924]

42 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Maybe, maybe not ... but the process you come to either conclusion is important. The person you are replying to shows they understand this because the path you get to concluding whether it's fine or not also affects the implementation of the change. This thread is a great example because it's not clear if the problem is the runes or the spec. 

Thats why i make these kind of threads because i want classes to thrive and be enjoyable so i can play more classes and enjoy the game. I get a kick out of tinkering with various classes and learning stuff. It would suck if Anet in their wisdom destroyed all guardian specs by nerfing them because of the rune and ended up with no fun spec and for mains of guardians.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

So its fine then?

It's probably more accurate to say that my point is 'some people saying it's too good and some people saying it's too strong isn't necessarily a sign of a problem'. Sometimes you need to filter this sort of feedback through human nature to look for something to blame rather than accept that they might not be as good as they think.

 

I would say, though, that in my experience DH doesn't feel like it's dominant, but it doesn't feel like it's food either. Usually when I lose to one I can identify something I could have done not to lose (which is sometimes a case of 'still have a defensive cooldown that I used earlier' or 'keep distance even if it means relinquishing the point', but you can't win them all). If there is a problem, it probably lies with trapper runes - DHs are hard enough to kill without being able to break targetting. Overall, though, I think there are bigger balance problems to look at.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:31 AM, Axl.8924 said:

I saw peeps asking for buffing and others removing so how come they haven't done anything like that? such as give mobilioty speed from something so  guardians can get maybe superspeed for a few seconds when they are moving after doing something?

Why are you so concerned about the .01% of the player base talking about nerfing or buffing DH? If you don't have issues with DH then it doesn't matter. If you do, we can help you out with your playstyle. If you think DH is OP and want nerfs, I'm curious what you want to do with Necro and Prot Engi because those classes are much more problematic than DH.

[Axl.8924]

4 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Why are you so concerned about the .01% of the player base talking about nerfing or buffing DH? If you don't have issues with DH then it doesn't matter. If you do, we can help you out with your playstyle. If you think DH is OP and want nerfs, I'm curious what you want to do with Necro and Prot Engi because those classes are much more problematic than DH.

 

I'm just curious if its fine or not because I see so many complainin in pvp area about DH. I wanted to make sure spec survives because i get worried when i hear so many cries for nerf afraid of it happening. I like messing around with specs and sometimes i mess aroudn in pvp with rando spec and DH is one i tried a couple times. I dislike nerf threads at time because often you see ignorance people have compared to others who play the spec and know it well, and you see stupid request for nerfs that are possibly: 1 The spec works, so nerfing that one thing is not the thing causing the issue b: is willfully ignorant or malevolent about said spec and wants it to be nerfed into the ground so they can win. look at the thread for peeps asking to get rid of downstate, i think its prob a bad idea.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Obtena.7952]

I don't think we have to worry about what players think is fine or not. That's never seemed to be a primary factor in how Anet decides to change the game. That isn't something that can be objectively measured in the first place. If Anet jumped on everything players thought wasn't fine ... they would be paralyzed by the sheer amount of work.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

On 11/9/2021 at 6:09 PM, Axl.8924 said:

 

I'm just curious if its fine or not because I see so many complainin in pvp area about DH. I wanted to make sure spec survives because i get worried when i hear so many cries for nerf afraid of it happening. I like messing around with specs and sometimes i mess aroudn in pvp with rando spec and DH is one i tried a couple times. I dislike nerf threads at time because often you see ignorance people have compared to others who play the spec and know it well, and you see stupid request for nerfs that are possibly: 1 The spec works, so nerfing that one thing is not the thing causing the issue b: is willfully ignorant or malevolent about said spec and wants it to be nerfed into the ground so they can win. look at the thread for peeps asking to get rid of downstate, i think its prob a bad idea.

I doubt DH would get nerfed. 

However we could see trapper rune removed in the next expansion, they do remove them every now and then. Which would directly nerf DHs current build in spvp. 

[BOOO.9184]

DH is fine guys.

 

It performs well in some areas and Its basically walking prey vs some classes.