Wvw Rewards-Participation

[SimulationOfLife.4657]

I know there was some trouble with rewards in wvw before, but...For days now in wvw,  I get almost no reward, even when I fight and die, or even sometimes in a group while supporting. Also if I try to support-defend an area, instead of just running into a zerg to suicide myself when I'm alone, I get zero participation. This is so not right. A real army runs on support, but in wvw now it seems scouts, supporters and defenders are just completely disrespected. When I complained someone said, 'You're just not a good enough player'. So I said, 'Well, if you want wvw to be a pvp gankfest, then why not take away garrisons, towers, camps, NPC guards, tactics and supplies. Then have at em.' I got no answer. Feels bad 😞

[SimulationOfLife.4657]

Rewards and participation seems a little better tonight, not great, but better. But that is only due the the tag and his group. Sometimes you play when it's just a few of you and the enemy.

[Dawdler.8521]

TL;DR you choose a playstyle that gives low rewards, you unsurprisingly get low rewards.

WvW is as simple as capping territories. Join a group, do that, repeat as combat intensify. You'll get your loot. "Defending" is just a sideeffect of the enemy doing the same thing.

[SimulationOfLife.4657]

I play when I and how I can. I know how to cap things. I can take some camps alone, and most guards. Sometimes I can even take a tower, or a garrison, if roamers come, and no enemies show up while I take down a wall. I think my 'play-style' is as good as anyone's. I'm not talking about sitting afk and expecting the world. I have no clue how you took away, from what I first posted,  that I sit on my assets, and wait for rewards. Supporters in wvw work as hard, fight as hard, and die as often as anyone. They deserve just as much respect as everyone else. I'm saying I think rewards and participation are bugged sometimes, and also unfair at times. It's gotten worse after this latest update. Also, I do know the value of a group, if and when you're allowed to join. I think you may have missed the part where I said, ' Things were a little better with a group', in my second post.

Edited November 12, 2021 by SimulationOfLife.4657

[Sviel.7493]

I'm not sure if you heard, but participation for repairing, defense events and siege damage was removed in the last patch.  So, if you're defending something, you're not going to get any participation at all unless you fully kill someone.

We have some theories on why Anet did it, but they haven't actually said anything on the matter so we don't know for sure.  My guess is that they aren't intentionally trying to screw over the support crew.  I wouldn't expect any reversions, though, as that would require a level of attention that seems to be absent.  You'd have to join the big guild Discord server and somehow convince them to make any headway--Anet seems responsive to their complaints but kind of clueless about those effect the people the big guilds tend not to care about.

[SimulationOfLife.4657]

Well, that confirms what I needed to know. Which is that other players see this too. Still, I'm glad I brought it up. I'll try to work with it, because you're right, no big loud voice from many, no joy. Thank you, Sviel

[Zyreva.1078]

They did NOT remove participation from defense events. But you gotta get out there and get your hands dirty now if you want to gain something instead of twiddling thumbs inside safe zones.

Also supports can (and often should) be dealing enough dmg to get credit for kills.

[Boh.4568]

In some of the Alliances/WvW restructuring blog posts Anet mentioned they are going to implement something to give more credit to support classes who rarely kill in group fights. I don't know if they have it already planned and if they will test it in the next beta, but they surely know about this issue.

[Shining One.1635]

It seems a bit off to me. I can follow a friendly group and stand in their capture circles, never using my skills, and keep getting 10 minute participation grace periods. If I try to solo a tower, I'm losing participation every step of the way until I kill the lord. The first is objectively less effort on my part, but far more rewarding from a participation standpoint.

[SimulationOfLife.4657]

@UmbraNoctis As I stated in all my posts about this:  I am very much 'out there', even though I am support. I Also have a fair share of kills from running in zergs, ( tag credit ) when I am allowed to join. Also, as far as a support build 'should' be doing damage; Support builds don't always do high dps, and often can't survive without the high dps builds, who's life Support is trying to protect. When I am alone, because there are no tags or pugs running on our side, is when participation is at 0 sometimes. Even if I run around killing guards, and taking camps by myself. But it has also happened to me while running in a group ! Which is why I wondered if it was a bug, and I still  think part of it is at times. Now I also know, from what Sviel tells me, that it was also partially part of the last update before today's.   @ Boh,  I really hope you're right, ty for the info ! 🙂 @ Shining, Exactly !  If you're in or by the Cap-kill circle, ofc you should get credit. But you should also get some credit for trying to get to the lord, or taking a camp and killing guards, trying to DO something to help, ETC.,  even if you're alone.  It's nice to know that others see this issue too !   🙂

Edited November 12, 2021 by SimulationOfLife.4657

[Strider Pj.2193]

2 hours ago, SimulationOfLife.4657 said:

@UmbraNoctis As I stated in all my posts about this:  I am very much 'out there', even though I am support. I Also have a fair share of kills from running in zergs, ( tag credit ) when I am allowed to join. Also, as far as a support build 'should' be doing damage; Support builds don't always do high dps, and often can't survive without the high dps builds, who's life Support is trying to protect. When I am alone, because there are no tags or pugs running on our side, is when participation is at 0 sometimes. Even if I run around killing guards, and taking camps by myself. But it has also happened to me while running in a group ! Which is why I wondered if it was a bug, and I still  think part of it is at times. Now I also know, from what Sviel tells me, that it was also partially part of the last update before today's.   @ Boh,  I really hope you're right, ty for the info ! 🙂 @ Shining, Exactly !  If you're in or by the Cap-kill circle, ofc you should get credit. But you should also get some credit for trying to get to the lord, or taking a camp and killing guards, trying to DO something to help, ETC.,  even if you're alone.  It's nice to know that others see this issue too !   🙂

So..  I am hopeful that the way I write this does not come across as critical:

Getting credit and participation in Zergs is fairly easy on support.  Getting loot bags, well, as a heal FB I get probably 1/2 of the loot bags of DPS and…. I expect that because it was my choice to play support.  If I want more (2-3 silver) loot bags, I’ll play a DPS spec.  But considering the most I’ll lose in a fairly productive night is about 1 gold….  I get plenty of ‘loot’ from the tracks…. Which is why those were implemented in the first place.

 

If I run alone…..  I don’t play a ‘support class’ because…. Wait for it….  I am not supporting anyone.  I play a class that functions well ALONE.  Ranger, thief, ele, and necro (for me).  I don’t play support scrapper or heal firebrand..

 

If I run in small groups, (3-7) I may play support, but with Staff on FB, between staff 2 and 3 I get enough damage credit.  And that’s even if I play full stupid minstrels.  Swapping over to some celestial depending on who I am running with makes it far easier.

 

I guess the point is, if you are playing support in a Zerg, getting loot bags isn’t your goal.

 

If you are running alone or with a small Grouo, why would you consider running full support……

[SimulationOfLife.4657]

@Strider I don't care much about loot bags, they're OK, but mostly stuff I can get in pve. I do care if and when the game is bugged or unfair. Like if you are doing what you're supposed to be doing, and you don't get what you have been told by the game that you should. Yes I know roaming is different from running support with a zerg. I'm a kind of  'tanky' Druid. That is if you can even be called tanky in gw2, lots of people argue about that here. I have no desire to get into that conversation, as I've seen people block 'friends' over build disagreements. 😞

Edited November 12, 2021 by SimulationOfLife.4657

[Strider Pj.2193]

@SimulationOfLife.4657

 

If you are running a ‘tanky’ ranger, you really shouldn’t have trouble getting loot…

 

You may not want to discuss builds, but maybe you need to in order to change or tweak yours..

 

If I run an immob Druid build, I am tanky as heck, and have no trouble killing things.  Players may be a different story.  I have no trouble taking towers or camps.  
 

If you are looking for more ‘loot’, then maybe WvW isn’t for you.  

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

9 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

They did NOT remove participation from defense events. But you gotta get out there and get your hands dirty now if you want to gain something instead of twiddling thumbs inside safe zones.

 

Have you confirmed this?  I was told by others that it has been removed…. I was under the belief that this keeps alive the chance for participation for those that were saying there is ‘no reason to defend’. 

[SimulationOfLife.4657]

@Strider. My build is fine, ty. As I said above, I'm not looking for loot bags or build advice. This topic is about the process that advances-rewards you in wvw and whether it is bugged, and-or fair.

Edited November 12, 2021 by SimulationOfLife.4657

[Strider Pj.2193]

I would say it’s clearly NOT bugged, and ‘fair’ within the mode.  Fair compared to other modes is a whole different conversation.  

[Zyreva.1078]

4 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Have you confirmed this?  I was told by others that it has been removed…. I was under the belief that this keeps alive the chance for participation for those that were saying there is ‘no reason to defend’. 

Definitely still getting my 10 min participation for camp defense events (after killing the attackers). Haven't payed attention to my participation in other situations, but i doubt they would remove it from towers and keeps and retain it for camps only.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

For me, participation timer gain (10 mins green time) from active defense of walled objectives (throwing supply on a wall of a contested objective) only appears to be working on EBG.

 

I tested earlier today on Alpine, on both walls and gates, claimed and unclaimed for good measure, nada

 

I tested at reset on EBG in 2 different objectives, received 10 mins both times, didn't kill a soul, just put supply on the wall.

 

I moved over to desert bl, nada.

 

So, yeah...lol

 

[Gorem.8104]

14 hours ago, Shining One.1635 said:

It seems a bit off to me. I can follow a friendly group and stand in their capture circles, never using my skills, and keep getting 10 minute participation grace periods. If I try to solo a tower, I'm losing participation every step of the way until I kill the lord. The first is objectively less effort on my part, but far more rewarding from a participation standpoint.

Which is something I used to do often, honestly after the recent patch solo play has just been removed, they don't want you solo'ing towers anymore, siege now needs to be right next to the tower, and be a cata, for it to not go down every second. They don't want you solo defending either, they don't want you scouting, they don't want you roaming. All the latest update did was force people to zerg to play wvw, and its funny how the people defending are all avid zergers who want to force you to play how they do, how dare you play differently then zerging in wvw right? 

Or just afk in camps every 10minutes without even playing and be rewarded more then someone spending 10 hours defending and tiering up a tower 🙂

Cause only EBG defence events give grace time, outside of EBG, defence events do not. Your ONE and ONLY access to grace time now when defending outside of EBG is pvp kills. So all the attackers have to do, is wait out ten minutes by capping a camp somewhere else and you are either forced to leave, or fight with no rewards for hours. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Gorem.8104

[Gorem.8104]

My tip right now? If you have smc, go camp the walls there and watch a movie while afk repairing the walls for 10minutes until the defence tick grace timer is removed entirely just because Anet hates WVW. 

[HazyDaisy.4107]

6 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

My tip right now? If you have smc, go camp the walls there and watch a movie while afk repairing the walls for 10minutes until the defence tick grace timer is removed entirely just because Anet hates WVW. 

They don't hate wvw, they just somehow seem to forgotten to code the defense change on the one bl where people are most likely to do what this change was supposed to prevent.

[Sviel.7493]

18 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Definitely still getting my 10 min participation for camp defense events (after killing the attackers). Haven't payed attention to my participation in other situations, but i doubt they would remove it from towers and keeps and retain it for camps only.

You're probably getting the usual 10 minutes for kill credit on a player.  Or perhaps kills are now the only way to get credit in defense events--that seems unusual, but would be an equally poor change.

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Sviel.7493 said:

You're probably getting the usual 10 minutes for kill credit on a player.  Or perhaps kills are now the only way to get credit in defense events--that seems unusual, but would be an equally poor change.

Nah, was definitely from the defense event.

[Ronin.4501]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:00 AM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

They did NOT remove participation from defense events. But you gotta get out there and get your hands dirty now if you want to gain something instead of twiddling thumbs inside safe zones.

Also supports can (and often should) be dealing enough dmg to get credit for kills.

INCORRECT.  You will ONLY get participation during a Defense event IF you kill a player during the event, and said participation will be for killing the player, NOT for defending.  Try repairing walls during a Defense event and when the timer ends, you'll get WXP for the event, but no participation.  I've tested it already several times since the update was released.

[Ronin.4501]

20 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Definitely still getting my 10 min participation for camp defense events (after killing the attackers). Haven't payed attention to my participation in other situations, but i doubt they would remove it from towers and keeps and retain it for camps only.

The 10 minute participation you were getting was from the player kills made during the defense event, even before this update was made.  Defense events only ever rewarded 5 minutes of participation.