"Masters of weapons and physical combat"

[Zekent.3652]

Yeah, it's not 2012 anymore, warrior is just not the master of physical combat or weapons. Rangers also have a lot of weapons and they're all just better for nowadays, the warrior ones are too telegraphed, outdated and clunky. Even when it comes to melee, rangers are just better, they all have a LOT of almost everything on 1 build, especially compared to warrior, better bruisers, projectile privilege, ranged dps, better sustain, more pressure, etc.

 

I compared warrior a lot with the ranger, yeah, it's just the class that is the closest one to the warrior (imo), even a friend that tried gw2, and mains warriors on mmos, told me that; "you know, ranger just feels like a better warrior, with a pet"

 

I really hope this class gets more polished, right before or after EoD release :).

Edited November 21, 2021 by Zizekent.2398

[Telgum.6071]

9 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

"you know, ranger just feels like a better warrior, with a pet"

My thought exactly when I played greatsword ranger for first time.

[Gwaymor.9607]

You know what? I thought so myself. Yep, ranger has blocks, evades, whatnot. Then I wanted to check if this is really so, in PVE (I'm a newb and for now don't PvP or anything). What I found out was that my spellbreaker, with the same equipment and level as my soulbeast, could solo much more dangerous (from my point of view) situations, both bosses and mobs.

And of course, the feeling of being a tornado of (virtual:)) steel, whirling your way in and out of danger, countering blows aimed to fell you in an instant, IS what ranger totally lacks, IMHO.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

47 minutes ago, Gwaymor.9607 said:

You know what? I thought so myself. Yep, ranger has blocks, evades, whatnot. Then I wanted to check if this is really so, in PVE (I'm a newb and for now don't PvP or anything). What I found out was that my spellbreaker, with the same equipment and level as my soulbeast, could solo much more dangerous (from my point of view) situations, both bosses and mobs.

And of course, the feeling of being a tornado of (virtual:)) steel, whirling your way in and out of danger, countering blows aimed to fell you in an instant, IS what ranger totally lacks, IMHO.

I'd say that is more of a point against warrior in requiring a cheesy built-in defene mechanism to actually be viable.

 

The issues were never addressed sadly, as SpB was the response. And currently it rly carries warrior, although Core remains more flexible jusst becaue it can lot 2 lines with some form of dedicated self-heal. Now that wouldn't be the cae if SpB and Zerker had both viable ways of resustain that doesn't involve trying to abuse Defense (and it doesn't even work that well) or MMR. Not to mention that Tactics Zerker or SpB cannot be as competetive as their other variants, since Tactics have the 3rd tier healing capability between the bad CDs for Marching Orders and no other privilege in mightshare aside from that tiny heal (which frankly does have it's use in groups, but in wvw we are nothing compared to Heralds and Tempests).

 

Tldr: warrior needs a rework. The data, the solutions, the implementation. All in this sub. It's a matter of time I hope.

[Mesket.5728]

1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

warrior needs a rework. The data, the solutions, the implementation. All in this sub. It's a matter of time I hope

Considering they are releasing BS, I wouldnt trust this current ANET team that rework... Its hard to imagine what they can deliver if they are so disconnected with the game.

[Opopanax.1803]

2 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I'd say that is more of a point against warrior in requiring a cheesy built-in defene mechanism to actually be viable.

 

The issues were never addressed sadly, as SpB was the response. And currently it rly carries warrior, although Core remains more flexible jusst becaue it can lot 2 lines with some form of dedicated self-heal. Now that wouldn't be the cae if SpB and Zerker had both viable ways of resustain that doesn't involve trying to abuse Defense (and it doesn't even work that well) or MMR. Not to mention that Tactics Zerker or SpB cannot be as competetive as their other variants, since Tactics have the 3rd tier healing capability between the bad CDs for Marching Orders and no other privilege in mightshare aside from that tiny heal (which frankly does have it's use in groups, but in wvw we are nothing compared to Heralds and Tempests).

 

Tldr: warrior needs a rework. The data, the solutions, the implementation. All in this sub. It's a matter of time I hope.

I actually think that warrior just needs mostly minor changes to make it feel up to par.

• Sword F1 needs to be unrooted
• Mace OH 5 needs ground targeting like GS 3
• Rifle still needs overall help
• GS 2 needs help.  I dont know the answer, but the long rooted channel is bad with so many stunbreaks and superspeed now.  I suggest shortening the channel and not back-loading the damage, but equalizing it.
• Crack Shot trait for burning on LB 1 and adrenaline on Rifle 1 need to be baseline.  Warrior has too many weapons to trait them all, and the ranged weapons are too niche to make you pick this trait up, especially for an auto-attack effect..
• Stances - Do not extent stance effects, but DO extend the duration of associated boons that they give.
• Signets- I believe these just needs their CDs decreased.  The effects are actually not bad, it's just for what they are now, the CDs are far too high.  The signet trait needs to be swapped to Precision over Ferocity because it is in Arms, the Condi trait line.  Maybe look at healing signet...
• Dual wield trait in Arms should: Add F2 with a 20 sec CD for any Off-hand weapon equipped.  OH sword=Condi torment,  Warhorn = some aoe buff/debuff, shield = protection for 2 seconds on a 20 sec CD, etc
• Drop CD from Soldiers Focus in tactics... it's already limited by F1 finisher CD
• Defense minor Hardened Armor needs to have Resolution changed to Protection.  It would be the only source of Protection which is easily stripped and corrupted and would have a CD so would not be overpowered.  

If they started with this, I really think warrior would have so much more viability.  

 

ps- this is core.  I think Berzerker needs F2 when not in Berzerker and Spellbreaker needs its utilities and elite buffed for PVE.... but the core changes would be enough to breath life into weapons and traitlines to work on some fun new builds instead of feeling so pigeon-holed. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Opopanax.1803

[Broxxgar.6801]

Warrior still better than a ranger in all meele combats even on PvP. I can breake the teeths of a Soulbeast with a single war core build.

Just have in mind that major people who play warrior just follow the meta and can't counter their enemies builds. So they think warrior are weak, the only weak weapon now is Rifle, but even this weapon with a good enffort you can take advantage of it.

Ranger has advantage when using condi build.

[Zekent.3652]

6 hours ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

Warrior still better than a ranger in all meele combats even on PvP. I can breake the teeths of a Soulbeast with a single war core build.

Just have in mind that major people who play warrior just follow the meta and can't counter their enemies builds. So they think warrior are weak, the only weak weapon now is Rifle, but even this weapon with a good enffort you can take advantage of it.

Ranger has advantage when using condi build.

This is toxic possitivity about a class, just accept that warrior is on their (probably) worst historical state on pvp.

[Broxxgar.6801]

3 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

This is toxic possitivity about a class, just accept that warrior is on their (probably) worst historical state on pvp.

Its not toxic positivism. Is the reality. A lot people who don't know how to play war, came here and talk this. Take a look on good Warrior Videos on youtube, and you gonna see them destroying other classes.

Its very easy to be countered by a Ranger with range weapon against a warrior who just run with 2 meele weapon.


I will take the things easy to you, I don't like to put the video of other player here. And take note that I don't follow all their content.

 

 

[Zekent.3652]

1 minute ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

Its not toxic positivism. Is the reality. A lot people who don't know how to play war, came here and talk this. Take a look on good Warrior Videos on youtube, and you gonna see them destroying other classes.

Its very easy to be countered by a Ranger with range weapon against a warrior who just run with 2 meele weapon.


I will take the things easy to you, I don't like to put the video of other player here. And take note that I don't follow all their content.

 

 

Montages are made to hype the people and just put your good plays in the video, nothing else that makes your class/gameplay look bad or things that your class really lacks of, montages are not the reality of the class.

[Broxxgar.6801]

7 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Montages are made to hype the people and just put your good plays in the video, nothing else that makes your class/gameplay look bad or things that your class really lacks of, montages are not the reality of the class.

That why I said that I don't like to post their videos and I don't follow them and their content.


But I don't change my opnion about your opnion. What I can achieve with my Ranger I can achieve better with my War. Take this as the reality or the 'Real deal'. Trapper ranger is the most dangerous out there.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

3 hours ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

Its not toxic positivism. Is the reality. A lot people who don't know how to play war, came here and talk this. Take a look on good Warrior Videos on youtube, and you gonna see them destroying other classes.

Its very easy to be countered by a Ranger with range weapon against a warrior who just run with 2 meele weapon.


I will take the things easy to you, I don't like to put the video of other player here. And take note that I don't follow all their content.

 

 

You're right that, in the hands of a very skilled player, warrior can indeed be deadly. But that's true of every class, and I don't think anyone was really disputing that point. The view shared by many on this subforum-- that warrior underperforms compared to other classes--is still valid. It may be that you are just an exceptional player and are able to thrash the majority of players you come across--whether you're playing warrior or another class. That's more of a credit to your skill as a player and understanding of the game than a credit to the inherent power of warrior as a class.

 

There is a reason why warrior has been absent from high level play in the MAT for the past 3 months, and nearly absent before that. And I don't believe for a second that it's because the best players in the game "don't know how to play warrior." They know how to play it (one top thief player swapped to SpB for a match vs a team with 3 holosmiths in the MAT final 4 months ago, for instance), but they have come to the realization that, in most circumstances, warrior is just outperformed by other classes.

 

And *that* is the central issue addressed over and over in these forums. And while we congratulate you and other elite players for the success you've had with the class, that doesn't mean that warrior is in a healthy place in the various game modes for the vast majority of players.

[Zekent.3652]

31 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

You're right that, in the hands of a very skilled player, warrior can indeed be deadly. But that's true of every class, and I don't think anyone was really disputing that point. The view shared by many on this subforum-- that warrior underperforms compared to other classes--is still valid. It may be that you are just an exceptional player and are able to thrash the majority of players you come across--whether you're playing warrior or another class. That's more of a credit to your skill as a player and understanding of the game than a credit to the inherent power of warrior as a class.

 

There is a reason why warrior has been absent from high level play in the MAT for the past 3 months, and nearly absent before that. And I don't believe for a second that it's because the best players in the game "don't know how to play warrior." They know how to play it (one top thief player swapped to SpB for a match vs a team with 3 holosmiths in the MAT final 4 months ago, for instance), but they have come to the realization that, in most circumstances, warrior is just outperformed by other classes.

 

And *that* is the central issue addressed over and over in these forums. And while we congratulate you and other elite players for the success you've had with the class, that doesn't mean that warrior is in a healthy place in the various game modes for the vast majority of players.

Totally agree, and im not sure if there's just a better answer.

[Broxxgar.6801]

1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

You're right that, in the hands of a very skilled player, warrior can indeed be deadly. But that's true of every class, and I don't think anyone was really disputing that point. The view shared by many on this subforum-- that warrior underperforms compared to other classes--is still valid. It may be that you are just an exceptional player and are able to thrash the majority of players you come across--whether you're playing warrior or another class. That's more of a credit to your skill as a player and understanding of the game than a credit to the inherent power of warrior as a class.

 

There is a reason why warrior has been absent from high level play in the MAT for the past 3 months, and nearly absent before that. And I don't believe for a second that it's because the best players in the game "don't know how to play warrior." They know how to play it (one top thief player swapped to SpB for a match vs a team with 3 holosmiths in the MAT final 4 months ago, for instance), but they have come to the realization that, in most circumstances, warrior is just outperformed by other classes.

 

And *that* is the central issue addressed over and over in these forums. And while we congratulate you and other elite players for the success you've had with the class, that doesn't mean that warrior is in a healthy place in the various game modes for the vast majority of players.

No I don't consider myself a elite player, I don't have that time anymore.

I pointed out the problem that you already know, War on PvP receive another status, but is not unplayable. PvP you have a lot of thing to consider. Team composition, fights and etc. I don't even care about the MAT.

Show your skill by outplaying your enemy, not playing the same set of  build waiting for results when you are already countered.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[Zekent.3652]

No one is saying that warrior is unplayable, we're saying that is just outperformed by the other classes, why would you pick a warr when there's a class that does X thing better than warrior? Only warriors mains that are not burned of this meta do that.

[Broxxgar.6801]

4 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

No one is saying that warrior is unplayable, we're saying that is just outperformed by the other classes, why would you pick a warr when there's a class that does X thing better than warrior? Only warriors mains that are not burned of this meta do that.

You can also outperform otherclasses. Just train and see by yourself.

[Zekent.3652]

Of course, and we get back to what CalmTheStorm said:

 

-"You're right that, in the hands of a very skilled player, warrior can indeed be deadly. But that's true of every class"

-"They know how to play it (one top thief player swapped to SpB for a match vs a team with 3 holosmiths in the MAT final 4 months ago, for instance), but they have come to the realization that, in most circumstances, warrior is just outperformed by other classes."

 

2 players, 1 is a warrior, and the other is just a better class than a warrior, both have good and the same skill levels, the other class just have advantage.

 

There's no excuse to keep warrior on that spot for so long.

[Broxxgar.6801]

8 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Of course, and we get back to what CalmTheStorm said:

 

-"You're right that, in the hands of a very skilled player, warrior can indeed be deadly. But that's true of every class"

-"They know how to play it (one top thief player swapped to SpB for a match vs a team with 3 holosmiths in the MAT final 4 months ago, for instance), but they have come to the realization that, in most circumstances, warrior is just outperformed by other classes."

 

2 players, 1 is a warrior, and the other is just a better class than a warrior, both have good and the same skill levels, the other class just have advantage.

 

There's no excuse to keep warrior on that spot for so long.

So you are saying, that I have to accept the mistake of top "THIEF" player and hold his opnion as mine? Is not because spellbreaker  uses a dagger that its similar to  a thief. He choose and probably was outplayed and that is the end of the match.

[Zekent.3652]

Actually surprised how far some persons go just to hold their first posture lol.

[Broxxgar.6801]

No, you are just ensure a thing that has no base at all. You are assuming that for every occasion the MAT decides which  class is better. Not all people will play MATs, event those top players, PvP goes far to WvW. So are a lot of things to see and put on the table to discuss.


There is a thousand of Soulbeast that killed me, but isn't because he is better than a Warrior, its because he played well with his team. And other outplayed me as well. That is the part of the game. You win and you loose. But came here on the forum and take the account on the class, that what your adversary had done to you, conquered your mind.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[draxynnic.3719]

Spare us the Sun Tzu koans.

 

So, you've beaten a few soulbeasts. Despite the premise of this thread, soulbeasts aren't exactly meta these days either. 

 

The general consensus among the general player base is that Warrior has been underperforming for some time. You can say that the tournament players don't represent the entire player base, but they do represent the player base that has demonstrated the ability to play and do well at the highest levels, and, well, they're not finding warrior competitive to do so.

 

You're drawing a pretty long bow if you want to claim that the regular playerbase just doesn't understand warrior well enough to use it properly, but the players that have demonstrated ability to play at the top level also fail to recognise its true potential, and somehow you've seen the truth... despite, by your own admission, not having the time to try to compete at the top level in the first place. So for all you know, you could be doing fine on warrior... but that could be because your MMR is about a hundred points lower than it would be if you'd spent the same amount of time mastering warrior on some other build instead.

 

(I would note that greatsword warrior, which is pretty much all PvP warriors since healbreaker got nerfed to death, is a pretty high skill floor build. But it also seems to be failing at the top levels. High skill floor and low skill ceiling is not a good combination.)

[Broxxgar.6801]

26 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Spare us the Sun Tzu koans.

 

So, you've beaten a few soulbeasts. Despite the premise of this thread, soulbeasts aren't exactly meta these days either. 

 

The general consensus among the general player base is that Warrior has been underperforming for some time. You can say that the tournament players don't represent the entire player base, but they do represent the player base that has demonstrated the ability to play and do well at the highest levels, and, well, they're not finding warrior competitive to do so.

 

You're drawing a pretty long bow if you want to claim that the regular playerbase just doesn't understand warrior well enough to use it properly, but the players that have demonstrated ability to play at the top level also fail to recognise its true potential, and somehow you've seen the truth... despite, by your own admission, not having the time to try to compete at the top level in the first place. So for all you know, you could be doing fine on warrior... but that could be because your MMR is about a hundred points lower than it would be if you'd spent the same amount of time mastering warrior on some other build instead.

 

(I would note that greatsword warrior, which is pretty much all PvP warriors since healbreaker got nerfed to death, is a pretty high skill floor build. But it also seems to be failing at the top levels. High skill floor and low skill ceiling is not a good combination.)

Remember that he talked about Ranger against Warrior, if you wanna change the topic, create another topic. And I never said about Ranger been meta. But you can do this put word on my mounth.

As I said I has no time anymore. By that you can understand a lot. Even when I was playing PvP. I can't do this anymore.

When you are fighting a guys with the same health and armor as you, you are ensure to him a lot of thing. I'm not saying nothing about regular player base, I said about that one who throw their failure on the class. Its has it problems, but not that you can't outmanuvers.


But you ask about builds and mastering:

https://i.imgur.com/QxWdkZe.jpg

Probably this  match was with GS or not, you can imagine it by yourself.





 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

21 hours ago, Mesket.5728 said:

Considering they are releasing BS, I wouldnt trust this current ANET team that rework... Its hard to imagine what they can deliver if they are so disconnected with the game.

I'm holding my breathe until the next beta. I HOPE there are some significant changes to the especs for us to test out, otherwise what would be the point of a second beta.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

20 hours ago, Opopanax.1803 said:

I actually think that warrior just needs mostly minor changes to make it feel up to par.

• Sword F1 needs to be unrooted
• Mace OH 5 needs ground targeting like GS 3
• Rifle still needs overall help
• GS 2 needs help.  I dont know the answer, but the long rooted channel is bad with so many stunbreaks and superspeed now.  I suggest shortening the channel and not back-loading the damage, but equalizing it.
• Crack Shot trait for burning on LB 1 and adrenaline on Rifle 1 need to be baseline.  Warrior has too many weapons to trait them all, and the ranged weapons are too niche to make you pick this trait up, especially for an auto-attack effect..
• Stances - Do not extent stance effects, but DO extend the duration of associated boons that they give.
• Signets- I believe these just needs their CDs decreased.  The effects are actually not bad, it's just for what they are now, the CDs are far too high.  The signet trait needs to be swapped to Precision over Ferocity because it is in Arms, the Condi trait line.  Maybe look at healing signet...
• Dual wield trait in Arms should: Add F2 with a 20 sec CD for any Off-hand weapon equipped.  OH sword=Condi torment,  Warhorn = some aoe buff/debuff, shield = protection for 2 seconds on a 20 sec CD, etc
• Drop CD from Soldiers Focus in tactics... it's already limited by F1 finisher CD
• Defense minor Hardened Armor needs to have Resolution changed to Protection.  It would be the only source of Protection which is easily stripped and corrupted and would have a CD so would not be overpowered.  

If they started with this, I really think warrior would have so much more viability.  

 

ps- this is core.  I think Berzerker needs F2 when not in Berzerker and Spellbreaker needs its utilities and elite buffed for PVE.... but the core changes would be enough to breath life into weapons and traitlines to work on some fun new builds instead of feeling so pigeon-holed. 

Pretty much everything that we came up with in the Omnibus thread that CMC and Grouch took one look at and said it was too much to read.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I came up with the best solution. Gunflame every mfer in existence. Thatis now all I do everyday. Ngl gunflame mastery is pretty fun.