Congrats to guardians *rolls eyes*

[Obtena.7952]

24 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

there is One force larger then meta. its called community perception. and while we spread these words about this Specc. it'll damage it long term regardless of the final Product. because we're ALL dooming it.

That's absolutely correct and the people with the perceptions that we need every shared boon to be 100% uptime and 10 man are those that push meta ... whether they know it or not. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

11 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's absolutely correct and the people with the perceptions that we need every shared boon to be 100% uptime and 10 man are those that push meta ... whether they know it or not. 

beleiving everything should have the right to be competitive isnt a Meta push, its called having the bar close enough to make these proffessions Relevant you fight a Battle that doesnt affect you.

Weather willbender is 100% Uptime or 60% uptime it has 0 Impact on yourself, yet you choose to fight to ensure this proffession is Benched as far as competitive modes are concerned for some absurd idea. Alacmirage isnt Meta, yet plenty are fine with it because it atleast fulfills the job its intended to manage.

Willblender is a Dead on launch specc... if anything i'd argue you want that to happen.... u know and have admitted you know, this specc is only good in a place where people dont care about Optimal comps / gameplay. which is a Minority to begin with. and before u say crap it is. its Statistically Proven the vast majority of players in Instanced Based PvE and PvP are using meta builds at minimum. Open world another story. but it can be very easily shown that the vast majority in Raids, high Fractals, SPVP and WvWvW do use them.

your "Crushing" Nothing. you merely Defending a Company Delievering Half assed work, thats it.. a Anet Simp at best.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

beleiving everything should have the right to be competitive isnt a Meta push, its called having the bar close enough to make these proffessions Relevant you fight a Battle that doesnt affect you.

You can play what you want and be successful in this game. They don't need to compete, at least in PVE that's true. What, you think this is the first time I've encountered this argument? The 'bar close enough' is meta pushing. The fact is that you are using optimal scenarios to push for changes you want on the class, all for the illusion that it needs to 'compete'. That's what meta pushers do. 

Pretty sure that no matter how Alacrity is implemented on Willbender, it won't be meta because of it's Alacrity ... so the ruse needs to end. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

You can play what you want and be successful in this game. They don't need to compete. 

 

being a Hinderance, isnt being Successful, its being carried.

if ur doing content with willbender.. ur being carried Lol, your not there cause ur needed, ur there cause ur players feel sorry for you.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

being a Hinderance, isnt being Successful, its being carried.

 

Then don't play in competitive teams that want optimal builds. This is just the reality of how this game has worked for 9 years. (Oh and your meta push is showing BTW) See, if you do content with non-optimal classes and you do that with a whole bunch of other people doing it, everyone is carrying everyone else. It's called teamwork. 

Nothing needs to be changed because it's not meta. FACT. Proven by years of this game existing and people playing classes they want and being successful by teaming with people who are doing the same. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Then don't play in competitive teams that want optimal builds. 

Its not about being Optimal

Its about being a Decent Person and trying ur best as part of a team... intentionally handicapping urself and Just handing urself to ur squad Half assed because u couldnt be bothered to actually use a Proper build is a Lame excuse. This games so power crept its made people like you build bad Habits.

EoD however by communication wont be Powercrept alike current, which means these new strikes should be developed around Player potiental.. I.E having a Enrage timer that actually makes Boon Uptime relevant, atleast by what they're communicating on this.

If this comes true. Willbender wont cut it outside of "old Content" from the past while be benched in Newer content.. how fujn for the new guardian elite.

your Mentality is fine. providing More People arent Playing  bad builds then are.. however in a World where it becomes the norm actually ti wont be fine at all. your basically saying if it can be carried in current content it can do well.

"competitive teams" facepalm.

The Casual Player is still going to want a Optimal Team lol. No one builds a team for failure. No one cartes about Each others "Fun"

Edited December 1, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Its not about being Optimal

Yet you think Willbender needs the optimal Alacrity application. Sure. 

Again, if you want to be a 'Decent person" and do your best for the team, you make choices to do that. Not every choice available to you needs to enable you to be a 'decent person'. 

You can also embrace the philosophy of the game and play how you want with other people that do the same. Both work. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yet you think Willbender needs the optimal Alacrity application. Sure. 

Again, if you want to be a 'Decent person" and do your best for the team, you make choices to do that. If you embrace the game and play how you want with other people that do the same, you can make other choices. Both work. 

Once again i will spell it out to you.

I. WANT. ALACRITY. REMOVED. FROM. WILLBENDER.

Its got fundamental flaws i want Fixed out. I.E its current Design conflicts entirely with the core design So it doesnt function properly in roles it was Initally Developed for. Alacrity doesnt help Willbender. its a BandAid and it needs removing and a Actual fix put in.

and Yes u can make other choices work

Spectre.

mechainst

Alacrity Mirage

Alacrity Renegade.

are all Competing Speccs for Alacrity Uptime realistically, Their all choices.. and a Groups gonna likely get one of those 4 apply to their groups before a Willbender does. Because Willbender will be Low popularity due to its Design realistically. if willbenders Design was So "popular" Herald would be far More popular among the community yet it isnt.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

31 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Once again i will spell it out to you.

I. WANT. ALACRITY. REMOVED. FROM. WILLBENDER.

Its got fundamental flaws i want Fixed out. I.E its current Design conflicts entirely with the core design So it doesnt function properly in roles it was Initally Developed for. Alacrity doesnt help Willbender. its a BandAid and it needs removing and a Actual fix put in.

 

You want it out ... but then you argue it should be 100% uptime and 10 man? Wow, OK. This thread is wild. 

I don't know Anet's motivation to put in it, but I do know that there are two truths here:

1. It doesn't need to be 10 man 100% uptime if it stays and certainly not because "you aren't pushing meta" 😆

2. Whatever Anet's reason is (they might have even said it somewhere because they do that), it doesn't seem inappropriate for the theme of the class. 

See, you've made a pretty bad assumption here: You are assuming that if Anet remove the Alacrity, they are going to fix the problem in your perspective the way you want it fixed. Why would you assume Anet sees the problem the way you do and think the way you do about fixing it, especially if their current approach is already one you don't like?

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Exile.8160]

On 11/25/2021 at 2:25 AM, Aedil.1296 said:

Congrats to Guardians for being the first class to cover might, stability, quickness, healing, alacrity, power, condi, tanking, aegis, etc. etc.

Truly a class that can do everything kitten eles isn't it. 

Imagine complaining about the willbender hahaha

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You want it out ... but then you argue it should be 100% uptime and 10 man? Wow, OK. This thread is wild. 

I don't know Anet's motivation to put in it, but I do know that there are two truths here:

1. It doesn't need to be 10 man 100% uptime if it stays

2. Whatever Anet's reason is (they might have even said it somewhere because they do that), it doesn't seem inappropriate for the theme of the class. 

no i said Willbenders Alacrity isnt competitively viable because it isnt 100% Uptime, therefore a Unnessercarcy change to bandaid a larger problem the specc currently is dealing with. and it isnt. stop using the fact some people Dont care as a excuse to say it is.

If u have to intentionally not play the game optimally, it isnt Good. thats just the way it is. boon Uptime builds are a Specific Breed and Willbender isnt fit for the role.

I'd like the larger problem dealt with properly, without bandaiding a problem with a Role it cannot competitively fulfill.

there are Plenty of Non-meta builds which are fine. Boon herald, Tempest and more are all Non-meta choices that still bring Alot of Value into groups In niche situations, I.E Tempests do REALLY good in Raid training. because although its place isnt needed at the top. at the core playerbase the additional healing it offers is a MASSIVE HELP

Tempest is a good example of a Specc which is Not a Meta Pick or Option should look like. you should be able to find somewhere it Is a Defintiive help to. I.E Raid training etc etc. these sorts of speccs are fine. the problem is no matter how low down the pole u are Willbender is HARDER to USE for LOWER results.

Alac renegade is ONE BUTTON PRESSED ON CD for 10 man Alac. Willbender is tying 2 Traitlines in for 5 man alacrity at 60% Uptime.

Why are u promoting CASUAL PLAYERS to adopt HARDER BUILDS Therefore REMOVING their SUCCESS RATES at a casual level.

Alacrity willbenders gonna do like 12k DPS and offer 60% Uptime.

While the common Double Alacrity ren does 37k DPS each and offers 100% Uptime xD.

Do the kitten math, even in a Low uncaring Group.. the alacrity Rev is a MASSIVE help to that team. if i go play alac renegade for a team i make this game Easier for them to pass through i make the situation more enjoyable and better for everyone. but relieving stress off other players looking to have fun.

I play alacritry Willbender. I increase the stress levels of players around me Increase the pressure required and hold them responsible to play mechanically Better to make up the DPS Loss im causing single handerly.

If ur oki stressing ur players out and Requiring them to push further then they're capability allows thats on u. but willbender should be a Addition to a team in some form. alacrity isnt only offensive.. it actually Makes EVERYTHING faster including Boon Access. things like condi weaver are hinged on consistent Alacrity uptime.. it also increases the healing output passively.

boon uptime is a HUGE part of the success of a run. it makes Runs EASIER to do and Reduces the mechanical requirement of the rest of the group.

willbender should do what guardians always been good at. stability Aegis and protection. the buffs the core of the proffession is balanced upon.

at this distance u've realistically only repeated the same stuff.

Explain why exactly its So bad that Willbender becomes competitive with other speccs or being "meta pushed". what negative impact as a player does it have on u.. and why do u feel the need to fight against it.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Explain why exactly its So bad that Willbender becomes competitive with other speccs or being "meta pushed". what negative impact as a player does it have on u.. and why do u feel the need to fight against it.

Because it doesn't need to be competitive with those meta specs in those same scenarios. Not being competitive is not an argument to improve something if icompetitiveness not a requirement for people to choose the spec and be successful playing it. 

The negative impact is that you aren't actually fixing a problem by giving it equivalent performance for that boon share. In otherwords, metapushers use meta as the reason for the change ... but the change doesn't necessarily result in the spec being meta since it's highly unlikely that it's possible for multiple specs to occupy equivalent meta positions.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Barraind.7324]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:24 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Just because not 100% uptime 5 man alacrity is not optimal for high performance teams does NOT mean it isn't viable.

 

Yes, yes it very much means that, for the purposes of answering the "does it provide alacrity" question.  Does willbender provide full uptime alacrity to 5 or 10 people? No. Its therefore in the pile with every other DPS spec that doesnt provide one of the high-end buffs. 

 

In some game modes, it doesnt really matter. You might not care about what groups can being when you're doing non-cm fractals, sure, thats great, you can do them with 4 whatevers and a safety net.  Doing those CM fractals or raids, or anywhere where composition actually matters?  It matters, and being worse DH matters when your competition for viability is yourself on a different elite. 

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

On 11/26/2021 at 5:03 AM, Aedil.1296 said:

At least alacrene presses a button, you don't even have to do that cause it pulses from your passive F2 😂

had you actually paid attention you would realize that for wilbender, for that alac you need to press f2 and then it has 6 seconds during which it needs to keep scoring hits (5 hits per single alac proc). With a perk it's 4 sec that can be extended by scoring kills to 8s. and then it goes to quite hefty cd.

So yes, technically speaking guardian can now provide all boons in the game hooray, who would let such a details as - most of it is on one espec and 1 boon is on the other espec and considerably weaker than every other group alac provider to date - in the way of complaining about OPie guards...

And for the record I am not a huge fun of them altering that trait to allow sharing of alacrity, but I dislike this change specifically because it's a food for complainers, and nothing else.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Lord Trejgon.2809
rephrased hitting hits which was a weird mindfart merger of scoring hits and hitting things....

[Obtena.7952]

20 hours ago, Barraind.7324 said:

 

Yes, yes it very much means that, for the purposes of answering the "does it provide alacrity" question. 

Good thing Willbender isn't just intended to be a 10 man alacrity bot then because then we would have a problem. 

That's a little cryptic, so I will be plainer: it's not a problem that Willbender can't be a 10 man alacrity bot for 10 man instanced content.  Not meeting the criteria of a specific function is NOT an indication of the overall viability of a spec. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Good thing Willbender isn't just intended to be a 10 man alacrity bot then because then we would have a problem. 

That's a little cryptic, so I will be plainer: it's not a problem that Willbender can't be a 10 man alacrity bot for 10 man instanced content.  Not meeting the criteria of a specific function is NOT an indication of the overall viability of a spec. 

 

tbh currently Willbender is not intended for any other role but the bench lol.

I still dont understand why your trying to fight against these players.. these changes dont negatively affect anyone, Numerically buffing a Specc doesnt negatively impact players who dont care about optimal gameplay yet its current situation is clearly negatively impacting Players who do. fixing the issue is only a Positive thing.

There are LOTS of topics around that I dont care about or not interested in, yet People want changes which have no negative impact on myself, i simply Dont join the conversation. Saying somethings viable Is clearly not enough. Current PvE End game (Raids) is Doable by a Raid of level 74 Core Proffessions..and was litterally done. Doom CM is Doable with 10 Players only auto attacking the boss.

The Reason "everythings viable" is because the content has become a Joke due to power creep, however if the needed changes To make PvE Less of a Joke, would mean ALOT of these "Viable Speccs" Would suddenyl become ALOT less viable. Just leave the conversation to players that the current position of the specc is clearly negatively Impacting.

PvE Balancing is the minimum ELite Speccs should be able to manage. and Numerical Balancing changes nothing about the specc in a Way that'd make any player like willbender any less, theres 0 Reason to realistically be fighting against making Willbender Numerically stronger.

Elites are something ALOT of people buy expansions for. Which means if it comes out badly, they dont buy the expansion. I.E Less sales. I.E Reduced profits. I.E Possible negative impact on the company I.E Affects us negatively as the playerbase.

Yes we can say. Guardian is sooo popular today among the playerbase maybe they're trying to get players rerolling to new things and maybe Anet want to Make Less Popular proffessions and builds played more, but the playerbase is allowed to complain about that happening. thats what forums are for.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

tbh currently Willbender is not intended for any other role but the bench lol.

 

OK then don't play it. I'm sure many people have thought of more reasons than you have to play it. If people don't play it enough for Anet, they will buff it. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK then don't play it. I'm sure people have more reasons than you have thought of to play it. If people don't play it enough for Anet, they will buff it. 

I listed why someone would play it. Someone who doesnt care about optimal Gameplay effectively.. People still play Chronomancer in SPVP.. dont get me wrong in 99% Of the Circumstances its because their a absolute troll, but they'll do it.

And buffing it after the damage is already done? Lmao. U behave as if community perception is a Fast process to break down. Newsflash it isnt. they had to drive Scourge over the edge Overpowered before people would speak well of it, even though it was actually really strong prior its onset of buffs People actively wouldnt beleive it.

"if people dont play it enough anet will buff it".

Weavers actively had almost 0 Representation Yet has Not recieved buffs, Ironically its actually recieved more nerfs lmfao.

How about, we consider the fact its Not in a good state Right now. and Feedback that data Prior its Launch. as the Beta was intended to be for?.. to concept of a Beta is to Discuss these things BEFORE its launch. Not to idely sit around and wait til afterwards.

If Players Dont feedback, Anet have a Excuse, If 0 People write anything and something goes wrong we hand Anet the card of "Well no one told us?.. there was no good feedback regarding problems". the Idea is the Sh*tstorm needs to erupt NOW. not in a Month. Not after EoD Launch. Not once raids begin, Not when new content drops. RIGHT THIS MOMENT.

If u have a Problem with the current situation of a Elite that you care about, the time to State that is now. Stop with this "Oh just wait til launch.. they'll buff it one day" IT TOOK FOUR YEARS FOR SCRAPPER.. FOUR YEARS!!!! why would u Take the option of awaiting 4 years Comparitively to submitting now when they're actually working on the development of this Elite now?!

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I listed why someone would play it. Someone who doesnt care about optimal Gameplay effectively..

Yup ... and that's actually LOTS of people ... so GL pushing for 10 man 100% uptime alacrity when Willbender doesn't need it. Again, if you want to worship the meta, play the specs that are meta. Not every spec needs to be part of that. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup ... and that's actually LOTS of people ... so GL pushing for 10 man 100% uptime alacrity. 

In all honesty.. i want everyone dropped to 5man boons and tbh quite a few predict this is actually going to happen. Grouch has also announced that the Planned changes to the Existing elites wont happen til After EoD Also, so effectively im rooting for all 10 man boons to be cut down to 5 man.

I Simply want Proffessions to be Balanced, the goal is to get every proffession as close as possible to one another balance Wise, they'll never get it perfect.. we'll never see every specc be a Winner. but in comparable margin to one another.

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, if you want to worship the meta, play the specs that are meta. Not every spec needs to be part of that. 

aaah here comes the Dumb comments again.

U dont need to "worship the meta" to expect a Team of Qualified People Employed to Balance the game.. to do their job lol.

Its LITTERALLY apart of their job to balance the proffessions and speccs, again sure it'll never be perfect. but it can be a HELL Of alot closer then it is currently.

Give me one reason why Speccs being competitively balanced would affect you as a Player negatively.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

In all honesty.. i want everyone dropped to 5man boons and tbh quite a few predict this is actually going to happen. Grouch has also announced that the Planned changes to the Existing elites wont happen til After EoD Also, so effectively im rooting for all 10 man boons to be cut down to 5 man.

I Simply want Proffessions to be Balanced, the goal is to get every proffession as close as possible to one another balance Wise, they'll never get it perfect.. we'll never see every specc be a Winner. but in comparable margin to one another.

That's sensible. I want balance too ... but I'm apparently more realistic, see how Anet changes the game and understand Anet can't engineer things into meta spots. Their version of balance isn't just about performance. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's sensible. I want balance too ... but I'm apparently more realistic and see how Anet changes the game. Their version of balance isn't just about performance. 

but thats Exactly what balance is.. What other function do these proffessions bring other then performance. Unless we're seriously going to consider "what if players wanna Walk around lions arch Roleplaying as a Willbender" which imma just ask u how would improving willbender Affect their ability to walk around Lions arch Roleplaying as a Willbender negatively.

If One Portion of the community Dislikes Something. That has no negative Impact on the other portion of the community why Should that thing not be fixed. Numerical changes Once again have NO IMPACT ON GAMEPLAY, it doesnt Harm players who dont care about being Meta to buff the Specc.

Well if u can see it.. you can "Realistically" See their "Version of balance" has Left this game down to nothing other then a Downward Spiral of Popularity.. they almost murdered their own company.. and  ucant say "that has nothing to do with the changes"> people Dont quit games. Because their the same game they loved from when they begun. They quit games when they feel the game has Changed in a Negative way which Impacts their enjoyability of the game.

and Burnout doesnt make people quit games, it makes people take breaks from games.. GW2 is a F2P Game. With no ability to "Fall behind" in, Its not a game type People would long term quit. and Tbh reading forums majority of the problems people have is down to the Way they feel their proffessions balance is handled.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

but thats Exactly what balance is..

maybe ... but that's not what Anet does or at least not JUST what they do. You can argue all you like about what balance is. I can assure you ... that's not the version Anet is using. They have their own and they have been following it for over 9 years. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

maybe ... but that's not what Anet does or at least not JUST want they do. YOu can argue all you like about what balance is. I can assure you ... that's not the version Anet is using. 

I still dont understand why u need to vocalize this against People having a Issue. these are Forums. this TOpic is dedicated to our thoughts on the balancing of Willbender. if ur not making a Case to State why u think willbender is stronger then those in the topic are suggesting.. Why are u fighting against Players who want change.

we are allowed to Say we think Anet are Wrong. Or we think something needs Reworking... What they're doing right now with hte game. is Clearly not working. the popularity of the game wouldnt drop. and sure thats multiple factors but im ngl. u cant get up on these forums right now and sayt "no ones unhappy at the game because of its balance". because every sub class forum is setting itself on fire Screeching "ANET HATE US THEY WANT US TO SUCK"

More and more new players are getting online these forums to vocalize their unhappyness with the state of things.. and as a community its Those who agree wit hthat statements job to get up and Ensure that vocal is as Loud as humanly possible.

this game wont be successful if the community just silebntly dies and Lets anet do whatever they want with 0 Feedback. Its important that unhappy Players get up and hand anet the opportunity to encourage them to stay. Its Our right as Customers to Make Complaints, Write Posts and State what we're unhappy with.

Anet asked for feedback. we gave them our feedback. and providing our feedback has a Point. Is Constructive and Identifys the problems. its considered Fine by the ToS For us to put forward. Willbender is lackluster compared to multiple other options and has No Role of Success in any game mode right now. maybe theres some big plan we arent seeing where they intend the capability of all speccs and More to be dropped to Reduce power creep. and if thats the case its Anets fault for not communicating that to us.

sure Anet also have the right to ignore us, but at the end of the day that doesnt mean we cant keep Resiting the problems and Keep Complaining.

and ofcourse guardian Player numbers will go down lol. Every MMORPG on the market proves the FoTM Reroll is a Real thing. People play guardian cause its Strong and a Leader in the Meta Its the path of least resistance to bandwagon a Wanted Proffession thats considered Strong then it is to play a Underdog and have to Justify your spot in a Raid by working twice as hard for the same results.

Just like in EOD the vast majority will swap to whatever character performs the best in what they're trying to do lol. The fact that the 2 Strongest proffessions in the game are currently massively More played in both time and Accounts then every other proffession right now and it isnt because of "Coincedence".

you cant prove how many people Dont care about optimal gameplay.

No one can prove how many do care about optimal gameplay.

To make this sorta Judgement as you try we'd need every GW2 player in the game to get up and Put forward their vote, until that day, you cannot say "most people dont care about optimal builds" factually, you can put ur opinons forward yes and so can everyone else. and the vocal Community atleast DO Care about optimal builds. which is shown by the Quantities of Topics Brought up about balance.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[cat.8975]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

tbh currently Willbender is not intended for any other role but the bench lol.

 

As a dps pick it was looking pretty solid during this last beta. The alac build is *almost* fine too, it just needs a bigger radius and maybe the addition of Absolute Resolve increasing the base duration of the regen/alac by 25%.

(And before you bring it up, I'm sure they'll add another power mod or two when they fix the current bug w/ TM and chill.)