No Equity in Skill Floor

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

not when playing a necromancer, no.
but then again, who can deal 70k damage at a time, let alone warrior

ranger wolf birbs do like a million damage

[Arheundel.6451]

19 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Some classes, and this is sometimes only temporary, but some classes have a really low skill floor, and yet, they can go all the way to even rank one, even winning mats.

The skill ceiling for these same classes, is in a way that floor is 0 and ceiling is infinity (figure of speech).

What do you think happens?

I think, and I SAID THINK, that this is one of the most prevalent driving motivations for players to choose a class.

Without saying a single class, think of one in your head, that you know fits the above description.

Then, try to imagine how often or how rarely you see that class.

I have a couple, maybe  a few in my mind.

When I, (ME, MYSELF), imagine these classes, they are in every game, with very very few exceptions.

Now, I have fell as low as silver, not from decay, but from terrible loss streaks, and I have been up to plat 2, which may be the pinnacle of my own personal performance, but the classes that I see the most are the same across the spectrum.

The most played classes, the lowest skill floor classes can go from the bottom and actually excel at the top.

You will also find that for a majority of the population, when they choose one of these, their performance goes up, and if they venture out of that lane, their performance dips, drastically.

It is at the point, where you will see two or more of the same class, because no one knows how to play something else.

They don't practice anything else.

Why should they?

This is effective, but now, that things are down to a few narrow choices, you will see a crowd of these classes.

 

 

So, why are the higher skill floors also paradoxically capped at mid tier to only high tier, and not the absolute top? (with a VERY VERY few exceptions, due to extremely skilled notable players)

I would have expected that lower skill floors to cap out lower, and higher skill floors to be more prevalent at the top, but the "HERO" professions are just TOO successful across the spectrum.

The threats to their success are virtually non-existent.

You see threads that pop up from time to time about this class or that class that threaten the META of the HERO professions.

And, those are far a few between.

Funny thing is, the devs actually make nerfs to those "balancing" or "villain" classes while leaving the others alone, subbing a buff for a nerf, or nerfing everyone else so the nerf is actually a buff for the "HERO" classes.

It makes for a very very boring, bland, and homogeneous game.

 

You see how this works, and why people cry for nerfs?

Why some classes feel left out or weak?

 

Weaknesses and trade-offs wasn't a bad idea.

Time to get back to that.

 

Adding to the OP...

 

As a primary ele who mains also multiple other classes, what I find very disturbing is how individuals who enjoy playing far easier professions, delude themselves into thinking they have a legitimate idea of what balance is about.

If I jump on ranger, I can literally win fights while putting 1/5 of the effort and having 3x more sustain than an average ele player, who I can defeat with ease, including fire weaver ("complained in this thread") , and unless I am facing an above average ele player...I won't even look in their direction as I can literally kill them by looking in their direction

If I jump on necro, even with as little as 100 hours, I can start on a core necro, press F1 and literally become a super sayan, tanking dmg without pressing the dodge button once....no...I am not exagerating or joking at all, even worst I can use a scourge MM, press random buttons and actually win fights.

Typically this is why I don't main an ele nearly as often, why should I use my limited time trying to be x10 better than even a below average player on some other meta class, who can become a threat even by spamming buttons randomly?

But then people come on this forum and complain about..ele? Like really? ...I mean the only players who currently succeed on ele in PvP are like TOP 100 ( whatever does it even mean these days.....) who can literally win on any profession if so they'd wish and by contrast, those who complain about these "pro" ele players, are individuals who firmly main the easiest professions in the game:...necro...ranger...guardian....even engi.....

Good lord....back in the days, players not only would publicly recognize the faceroll status of some class/specs ( dervish avatar.....minionmancer...etc etc). they'd also admit that they were unable to play anything harder...and instead now?!

GW2 player :" the skill requirement of a class cannot be an indicative of required success" AKA "I should win regardless of my class being way more faceroll than yours"...is any wonder why the balance in GW2 is so atrocious?

Edited December 25, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Skoll.8650]

5 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Adding to the OP...

 

As a primary ele who mains also multiple other classes, what I find very disturbing is how individuals who enjoy playing far easier professions, delude themselves into thinking they have a legitimate idea of what balance is about.

If I jump on ranger, I can literally win fights while putting 1/5 of the effort and having 3x more sustain than an average ele player, who I can defeat with ease, including fire weaver ("complained in this thread") , and unless I am facing an above average ele player...I won't even look in their direction as I can literally kill them by looking in their direction

If I jump on necro, even with as little as 100 hours, I can start on a core necro, press F1 and literally become a super sayan, tanking dmg without pressing the dodge button once....no...I am not exagerating or joking at all, even worst I can use a scourge MM, press random buttons and actually win fights.

Typically this is why I don't main an ele nearly as often, why should I use my limited time trying to be x10 better than even a below average player on some other meta class, who can become a threat even by spamming buttons randomly?

But then people come on this forum and complain about..ele? Like really? ...I mean the only players who currently succeed on ele in PvP are like TOP 100 ( whatever does it even mean these days.....) who can literally win on any profession if so they'd wish and by contrast, those who complain about these "pro" ele players, are individuals who firmly main the easiest professions in the game:...necro...ranger...guardian....even engi.....

Good lord....back in the days, players not only would publicly recognize the faceroll status of some class/specs ( dervish avatar.....minionmancer...etc etc). they'd also admit that they were unable to play anything harder...and instead now?!

GW2 player :" the skill requirement of a class cannot be an indicative of required success" AKA "I should win regardless of my class being way more faceroll than yours"...is any wonder why the balance in GW2 is so atrocious?

Lets be real here, give elementalist Celestial amulet in Structured PVP and it'll be faceroll like everything else, just like its wvw counter part. Something something, 4 elementalist and 1 theif. It's really all on builds, not really the class as a whole. 

[Yumenei.7943]

10 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Adding to the OP...

 

As a primary ele who mains also multiple other classes, what I find very disturbing is how individuals who enjoy playing far easier professions, delude themselves into thinking they have a legitimate idea of what balance is about.

If I jump on ranger, I can literally win fights while putting 1/5 of the effort and having 3x more sustain than an average ele player, who I can defeat with ease, including fire weaver ("complained in this thread") , and unless I am facing an above average ele player...I won't even look in their direction as I can literally kill them by looking in their direction

If I jump on necro, even with as little as 100 hours, I can start on a core necro, press F1 and literally become a super sayan, tanking dmg without pressing the dodge button once....no...I am not exagerating or joking at all, even worst I can use a scourge MM, press random buttons and actually win fights.

Typically this is why I don't main an ele nearly as often, why should I use my limited time trying to be x10 better than even a below average player on some other meta class, who can become a threat even by spamming buttons randomly?

But then people come on this forum and complain about..ele? Like really? ...I mean the only players who currently succeed on ele in PvP are like TOP 100 ( whatever does it even mean these days.....) who can literally win on any profession if so they'd wish and by contrast, those who complain about these "pro" ele players, are individuals who firmly main the easiest professions in the game:...necro...ranger...guardian....even engi.....

Good lord....back in the days, players not only would publicly recognize the faceroll status of some class/specs ( dervish avatar.....minionmancer...etc etc). they'd also admit that they were unable to play anything harder...and instead now?!

GW2 player :" the skill requirement of a class cannot be an indicative of required success" AKA "I should win regardless of my class being way more faceroll than yours"...is any wonder why the balance in GW2 is so atrocious?

 

True. As former ele main I used to hit plat 2-3 with ease, but it took me thousand of hours of class playtime to get to this point. At the same time my ranger could reach this level of performance after around 200 hours. 

Yes, condi ele is dangerous, but only when you stand in one spot. Every plat player that really deserves their rank will kite them when they are in fire attunement and go full ape on damage when they switch to water (and they have to sooner or later to heal up). Fire weaver deals next to zero damage to foes that are moving a lot. Try this next time before you start complaining about this build. Also, when you see fire sword 2 attack, that literally is one of the most telegraphed attacks in this game that screams dodge, you dodge and move away from fire field. Thank me later. 

 

The only good thing that came from maining ele for so long is that now every class feels easy to play. The only exception was thief which in full zerker build required even higher reaction times, and this is the class that stimulates my brain now. Every other makes me fall asleep from boredom.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Yumenei.7943

[Kuma.1503]

16 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Adding to the OP...

 

As a primary ele who mains also multiple other classes, what I find very disturbing is how individuals who enjoy playing far easier professions, delude themselves into thinking they have a legitimate idea of what balance is about.

If I jump on ranger, I can literally win fights while putting 1/5 of the effort and having 3x more sustain than an average ele player, who I can defeat with ease, including fire weaver ("complained in this thread") , and unless I am facing an above average ele player...I won't even look in their direction as I can literally kill them by looking in their direction

If I jump on necro, even with as little as 100 hours, I can start on a core necro, press F1 and literally become a super sayan, tanking dmg without pressing the dodge button once....no...I am not exagerating or joking at all, even worst I can use a scourge MM, press random buttons and actually win fights.

Typically this is why I don't main an ele nearly as often, why should I use my limited time trying to be x10 better than even a below average player on some other meta class, who can become a threat even by spamming buttons randomly?

But then people come on this forum and complain about..ele? Like really? ...I mean the only players who currently succeed on ele in PvP are like TOP 100 ( whatever does it even mean these days.....) who can literally win on any profession if so they'd wish and by contrast, those who complain about these "pro" ele players, are individuals who firmly main the easiest professions in the game:...necro...ranger...guardian....even engi.....

Good lord....back in the days, players not only would publicly recognize the faceroll status of some class/specs ( dervish avatar.....minionmancer...etc etc). they'd also admit that they were unable to play anything harder...and instead now?!

GW2 player :" the skill requirement of a class cannot be an indicative of required success" AKA "I should win regardless of my class being way more faceroll than yours"...is any wonder why the balance in GW2 is so atrocious?

There isn't a single build people call difficult when they're dying to it.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[Swagg.9236]

I admire the push for trade-offs and draw-backs to classes in order to focus their purpose into roles or unique abilities, but you're more likely to end up with an aneurism than convince anybody who has any sort of remote investment in GW2 PvP to give up their autopilot builds.  They feel safe and secure when they know that muscle memory and rock-paper-scissors is all they need to accomplish everything. 

[Axl.8924]

On 12/24/2021 at 4:27 PM, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

necro used to take damage.
avoiding damage is difficult on necro, back when you had to avoid damage it made the class difficult.
now you dont have to avoid kitten, facetank everything and usually live anyways

Necro has always about trying to survive damage that sometimes they had no choice but to facetank, the difference is that damage was too high and classes like "Necro" who couldn't tank stuff properly because every class was broken fundamentally and they had to be babysat 24/7.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Axl.8924

[FarmBotXD.1430]

4 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Necro has always about trying to survive damage that sometimes they had no choice but to facetank, the difference is that damage was too high and classes like "Necro" who couldn't tank stuff properly because every class was broken fundamentally and they had to be babysat 24/7.

necro was fine and functional before feb patch, in fact it was the most played class even then.
now its borderline overpowered nonstop  

[Axl.8924]

1 minute ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

necro was fine and functional before feb patch, in fact it was the most played class even then.
now its borderline overpowered nonstop  

 

1 minute ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

necro was fine and functional before feb patch, in fact it was the most played class even then.
now its borderline overpowered nonstop  

I'm mostly talking about the patch before that which brought specs in line by nerfing damage. I don't really remember when it was last. I'm talking about cutting back all of the POF power creep which was ridiculous which was necessary i think some of it was unecessary obviously i'm not really sure about all the ranger nerfs if it was needed as it got cut back a lot and i've seen some mes changes i questioned. A lot of folks begged for different changes to different classes asking for nerfs like always

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 12/24/2021 at 9:40 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

im pretty sure i fought you on condi weaver once and killed you as a zerker staff ele.

 

This comment made my day, lululz zerker staff ele. Gratz, although I expect this comment to draw confusion from certain individuals. 

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:08 PM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You wrote such big wall of text and at the end of it you still mispelled "Scourge" and wrote "Weaver" for some reason, weird times.

 

Yet another comment that made chuckle coz so trooo! Yet it may draw confusion from certain individuals. 

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 12/24/2021 at 3:10 PM, Hannelore.8153 said:

There's a huge difference between "Ele who spec'ed hard into this and has to press keys 200 times a minute" and "Necro who presses one key to survive while spamming damage on everything around it".

 

The whole point of this thread is about the skill floor, the opposite of what you posted.

 

Ele mains be like /shrug - w/e. 

What you said is absolutely accurate. 

 

Im not an ele main but it is my second favorite class 🙂

[Dr Meta.3158]

When they rebalance the classes and the OP still doesn't do well. The question is, will they realize the true problem or will they find something else to blame. It's like it's own "will they, won't they" plot on the forum.

 

Beyond that. Just play the easy class. Nothing is stopping you. Except the truth. But you'll find out faster at least.

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 12/24/2021 at 1:02 PM, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Some classes, and this is sometimes only temporary, but some classes have a really low skill floor, and yet, they can go all the way to even rank one, even winning mats.

The skill ceiling for these same classes, is in a way that floor is 0 and ceiling is infinity (figure of speech).

What do you think happens?

I think, and I SAID THINK, that this is one of the most prevalent driving motivations for players to choose a class.

Without saying a single class, think of one in your head, that you know fits the above description.

Then, try to imagine how often or how rarely you see that class.

I have a couple, maybe  a few in my mind.

When I, (ME, MYSELF), imagine these classes, they are in every game, with very very few exceptions.

Now, I have fell as low as silver, not from decay, but from terrible loss streaks, and I have been up to plat 2, which may be the pinnacle of my own personal performance, but the classes that I see the most are the same across the spectrum.

The most played classes, the lowest skill floor classes can go from the bottom and actually excel at the top.

You will also find that for a majority of the population, when they choose one of these, their performance goes up, and if they venture out of that lane, their performance dips, drastically.

It is at the point, where you will see two or more of the same class, because no one knows how to play something else.

They don't practice anything else.

Why should they?

This is effective, but now, that things are down to a few narrow choices, you will see a crowd of these classes.

 

 

So, why are the higher skill floors also paradoxically capped at mid tier to only high tier, and not the absolute top? (with a VERY VERY few exceptions, due to extremely skilled notable players)

I would have expected that lower skill floors to cap out lower, and higher skill floors to be more prevalent at the top, but the "HERO" professions are just TOO successful across the spectrum.

The threats to their success are virtually non-existent.

You see threads that pop up from time to time about this class or that class that threaten the META of the HERO professions.

And, those are far a few between.

Funny thing is, the devs actually make nerfs to those "balancing" or "villain" classes while leaving the others alone, subbing a buff for a nerf, or nerfing everyone else so the nerf is actually a buff for the "HERO" classes.

It makes for a very very boring, bland, and homogeneous game.

 

You see how this works, and why people cry for nerfs?

Why some classes feel left out or weak?

 

Weaknesses and trade-offs wasn't a bad idea.

Time to get back to that.

 

 

From what I remember in-game and on Grimjack stream, this OP plays thief and does it well. Sad to see him fall to silver. Stupidass rating system. It's ok, ratings have nothing to do w/ skill. Heck I've seen Dames and Knights in silver. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

necro was fine and functional before feb patch, in fact it was the most played class even then.
now its borderline overpowered nonstop  

Less so on damage output (excluding Lich of course) and more so on defense.  I found playing my Reaper post Feb2020 distasteful because it felt too unfair due to how durable it became relative to everything else.  I like fair/challenging fights, and necro right now is too easy to play with. CMC nerfed everyone's sustain and then left downstate and Shroud alone, which are two reoccurring QQ's post Feb2020.

The fair thing would have been to nerf downstate HP by 33% and Shroud's damage reduction to 33% from 50%.

[greedywholesome.9081]

I got bored of playing spell breaker and went extreme on core and burst Berserker elite spec warrior. One of the very few games I got damage and kill stats (on spell breaker, the most common stats are offense and defense from noding my butt off)

 

After one match, I got a nasty PM saying I was playing a cheap cheese build. 

 

I responded in-kind yet polite with "I'll just let you linger in your ignorance. Happy holidays" 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

4 hours ago, YaminoNakani.7083 said:

When they rebalance the classes and the OP still doesn't do well. The question is, will they realize the true problem or will they find something else to blame. It's like it's own "will they, won't they" plot on the forum.

 

Beyond that. Just play the easy class. Nothing is stopping you. Except the truth. But you'll find out faster at least.

 

It's like me and you are imagining the same class.

Can't imagine why /shrug