Perma Stealth Thiefs - What to do?

[smiiirf.3201]

4 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

What does EoD meta has to do with broken stealth mechanic though? Don't tell me that you think that if you slap hard timer, big hp pool and RNG mechanics is top kek "hard content". Lmao.
Teef doesn't need any buffs in the slightest though, where you people get idea that teef need some sort of compensation for removing broken mechanic? It'll still be pain in kitten to fight against with kitten load of teleports, mobility, blinds, interrupts and a lot more stuff in their kit.

It tells that alot of peoples do not know any mechanics ,including yourself.

 

That you don't know a fart about the thief either, you can see after that. If it would not be compensated, the thief would have to burn a lot of ini and dogdes in the defense and would have hardly any offensive possibilities. This would make the thief simply unplayable (AS D/P!!).  Deadeye would be literally dead aka unplayable LOL.

So because you personaly hate the Thief, anet has to delete 1 Espec and 1 Build.  Gz great Balance dude. The thief player bought this game too not only you. I mean how many paly guards and how many play thief? It is soooooooo OP as you say but why only few play it? I know what you will answer ;D

PS: And how to i Backstab then? When i can't stealth anymore? ^^ I guess you would delete this too because to much DMG OP!!! Help!. Your post was pure salty cringe man.

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Leolas.6273

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Remove every single source of reveal from game. 

You can no longer stack stealth. 

Problem solved.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

10 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Remove every single source of reveal from game. 

You can no longer stack stealth. 

Problem solved.

That's how it should be from 2012 though, stealth capped at 3s max after which you get forcibly revealed for 3s. But here we are people defending broken mechanic because they're incapable of fighting without it. People would be forced to actually think what to do within that 3s window instead of this "maybe i'll engage him? nah, let's wait for another 10s in stealth. oh he used very dangerous skill? let's wait in stealth for another x seconds until it runs out" circus.

[Scolix.4879]

On 6/16/2022 at 2:29 PM, Leolas.6273 said:

And you play condi mesmer.  Really fun to play against. Really.

Yea amongst other classes i do not shackle my self on one class i play them all except ranger because i can't stand AI pet classes.

Also where did i say i play pvp with condi mesmer its boring and wears out its novelty real quickly especially as it doesn't feel usefull at all when in group only thing where i use condi mirage is if and when i want to solo stuff with brains turned off.

And as for Harbinger i don't really like condi in that either so i play it as power its far more fun than using celestial faceroll mode.

[Gehenna.3625]

23 hours ago, Yunari.9065 said:

That is not true. Can't you see well and can't you hear? When a DE is closing in on you, you can hear it very well and the sign that you are marked is also very visible. In addition there are Reflects, Blocks, Bubbles, Evades, Dodges etc. etc. to avoid the shot. To that end, I haven't seen a DE really kill an opponent in one shot in a long time.

No wonder many did not make the EoD end meta.

Well, I have to play with the sound turned low, so no I don't hear them. And you're right, you can see the death mark on you but you can't predict when the shot comes or from which direction, because they can wait a long time since the death mark lasts a very long time and so they can try many times if it suits them. Now I don't die from the first shot, I admit. I used to. Still, it seems like deadeyes were popular for a while, then went away and recently have made their reappearance it seems. There are a lot more of them now it seems, cause I run into em a lot more recently.

However, even if the first shot doesn't kill nowadays, the perma-stealth makes it so they can keep pestering you till you're out of defenses and the death mark stays for a whopping 30 seconds and the recharge of it is 25 seconds so they can also permanently put a death mark on you. I mean 30 seconds is a long time. And if they can't kill you, they can just run away in stealth and you can never get them with their 50% increase of movement in stealth.

So regardless of why I hate deadeyes...they don't need perma-stealth, nor does any other profession.

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Gehenna.3625

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well, I have to play with the sound turned low, so no I don't hear them. And you're right, you can see the death mark on you but you can't predict when the shot comes or from which direction, because they can wait a long time since the death mark lasts a very long time and so they can try many times if it suits them. Now I don't die from the first shot, I admit. I used to. Still, it seems like deadeyes were popular for a while, then went away and recently have made their reappearance it seems. There are a lot more of them now it seems, cause I run into em a lot more recently.

However, even if the first shot doesn't kill nowadays, the perma-stealth makes it so they can keep pestering you till you're out of defenses and the death mark stays for a whopping 30 seconds and the recharge of it is 25 seconds so they can also permanently put a death mark on you. I mean 30 seconds is a long time. And if they can't kill you, they can just run away in stealth and you can never get them with their 50% increase of movement in stealth.

So regardless of why I hate deadeyes...they don't need perma-stealth, nor does any other profession.

 

The reappearance is on the forums because people need a flavor of the month bad guy to cry about. What you're saying is, that Mark gives some heads up but otherwise, DE gives about as much of a indicator of an attack as any other class gives off. The poor insight and ill informed and lazy arguments on these forums really shouldn't be pushing 20 pages. 

[Gehenna.3625]

2 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

The reappearance is on the forums because people need a flavor of the month bad guy to cry about. What you're saying is, that Mark gives some heads up but otherwise, DE gives about as much of a indicator of an attack as any other class gives off. The poor insight and ill informed and lazy arguments on these forums really shouldn't be pushing 20 pages. 

except I can't see them as opposed to other professions. So a warning yes, but beyond that I can't see where they're coming from. And the warning is essentially an uncleansable debuff that lasts for 30 seconds. If you don't have problems with that then you're probably a better player than I am, but not everybody is a good player in this game. So I can only explain what my experience is.

Like I said, it doesn't stop me from playing WvW but I also won't mind if they get rid of the ability to be stealthed permanently.

[senftube.6081]

On 6/17/2022 at 5:15 PM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well, I have to play with the sound turned low, so no I don't hear them. And you're right, you can see the death mark on you but you can't predict when the shot comes or from which direction, because they can wait a long time since the death mark lasts a very long time and so they can try many times if it suits them. Now I don't die from the first shot, I admit. I used to. Still, it seems like deadeyes were popular for a while, then went away and recently have made their reappearance it seems. There are a lot more of them now it seems, cause I run into em a lot more recently.

However, even if the first shot doesn't kill nowadays, the perma-stealth makes it so they can keep pestering you till you're out of defenses and the death mark stays for a whopping 30 seconds and the recharge of it is 25 seconds so they can also permanently put a death mark on you. I mean 30 seconds is a long time. And if they can't kill you, they can just run away in stealth and you can never get them with their 50% increase of movement in stealth.

So regardless of why I hate deadeyes...they don't need perma-stealth, nor does any other profession.

 

 

But then you weaken yourself if you lower the sound so that you can't hear half of it. Then you are simply self-inflicted sorry.

[Arolandis.8360]

All we need is more nerfs for what classes can do, right? Like we haven't gotten enough over the years.

Just nerf everything until every class is only able to take turns bonking each other on the head with sticks.

The only reason I got into this game is because of all the interesting things it's mechanics allow you to do, and nothing a thief can do anymore is really even that serious.

The cries about "they're stealthing as much as they want" or "they can spam there skills nonstop" or "they can shadowstep eleventy million times a second" are so not true. Most people complaining about the class haven't played it properly or understand it in order to counter it. This game requires you to know and understand what your enemies are doing in order to counter them. Learn to spot perma stealth thieves. There's ways to deal with them.

 

In other words. git gud.

[Virdo.1540]

5 hours ago, Arolandis.8360 said:

All we need is more nerfs for what classes can do, right? Like we haven't gotten enough over the years.

Just nerf everything until every class is only able to take turns bonking each other on the head with sticks.

The only reason I got into this game is because of all the interesting things it's mechanics allow you to do, and nothing a thief can do anymore is really even that serious.

The cries about "they're stealthing as much as they want" or "they can spam there skills nonstop" or "they can shadowstep eleventy million times a second" are so not true. Most people complaining about the class haven't played it properly or understand it in order to counter it. This game requires you to know and understand what your enemies are doing in order to counter them. Learn to spot perma stealth thieves. There's ways to deal with them.

 

In other words. git gud.

Its not like the other classes didnt get nerfed. Before all the nerfs, thiefs werent that hard to counter. Back then when berserker were oneshot from berserker classes. But now every class is tanky. Only thief got stealth and teleports on top

[Burial.1958]

10 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

Its not like the other classes didnt get nerfed. Before all the nerfs, thiefs werent that hard to counter. Back then when berserker were oneshot from berserker classes. But now every class is tanky. Only thief got stealth and teleports on top

 Thief is not tanky (Power) outside of some specter build, which do not any dmg at all then.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Grebcol.5984

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

Thief is not tanky (Power) outside of some specter build, which do not any dmg at all then.

Just letting you know that Cele Specter is indeed HELLA t0nky and can still hit 10k+ powerspikes EASILY (shroud 2 =~5k Damage  into Shroud 4= upwards of 8k Damage | Thats with 25 might before anyone comes in and calls Fakenews)... while being a fookin t0nk and having condi as its main damage... just saying... Timing shroud 2 and 4, they will hit at the same time and if your a bit lucky with your ~65% crit, it will burst for 10k+, if executed with 25 might. Even if you dont land a nice crit.... your main damage is still condi... remember. Almost permarooting your enemy and bursting them never was this easy 😄

I am playing it since a few days and i have to say.... People are sleeping on "Cele-Aristocracy-Specter"... The +100% Mightduration is WILD! Saying specter is tanky OR does damage is a lie... you can do both^^ http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABsqxjlhySZVsNWLO2WnxWA-zVRYVRDvYEDlSKFQshQvRQIJg7XAx1AkxwbR3pN-w   (i would use demon sigil, instead of malice, but demon is bugged atm and literally does nothing)

 

Secondly: People were arguing about DE alot here... it indeed sees more play than "pre-EoD",and that is not just a "Forum-thing".  It has a pretty easy time killing things that are popular atm. Personally i think DE is indeed very lame to fight against, as they can avoid you completly and then simply unload all of their INI with quickness from the trait. Back into stealth, rinse and repeat. We are fighting 2 German servers atm and they have ALOT of DE´s. Its very apparent atm. It is literally one of the 2 specs that i hate fighting. BUT.... and here comes the BIG BUT..... DO NOT NERF IT. Yes its lame, yes it can be frustrating... but lets not castrate every build out there, because we dont like fighting it.... we dont want stick fights.  There is things that require just a quarter of the brain that DE requires and performs better. (Not saying DE is crazy hard to play, just saying it requires atleast some brain, to score consistent and good results.) In all honesty.. we should not cry about thief... while there is literally Willbender and Harbinger "spam everything and pray" builds, and also "Boon-Bunkicator". So many builds that perform on a whole nother dimension.... yet we are here crying about Thiefs.

lastly: GUYS.... we are approacing Page 19 on a Thief cry thread....  *insert its time to stop meme*

Edited June 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[senftube.6081]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Just letting you know that Cele Specter is indeed HELLA t0nky and can still hit 10k+ powerspikes EASILY (shround 2 =~5k Damage  into Shroud 4= upwards of 8k Damage | Thats with 25 might before anyone comes in and calls Fakenews)... while being a fookin t0nk and having condi as its main damage... just saying... Timing shroud 2 and 4, they will hit in the same Frame and most of the time it bursts 10k+ if executed with 25 might. Almost permarooting your enemy and bursting him never was this easy 😄

I am playing it since a few days and i have to say.... People are sleeping on "Cele-Aristocracy-Specter"... The +100% Mightduration is WILD!

 

Secondly: People were arguing about DE alot here... it indeed sees more play than "pre-EoD",and that is not just a "Forum-thing".  It has a pretty easy time killing things that are popular atm. Personally i think DE is indeed very lame to fight against, as they can avoid you completly and then simply unload all of their INI with quickness from the trait. Back into stealth, rinse and repeat. We are fighting 2 German servers atm and they have ALOT of DE´s. Its very apparent atm. It is literally one of the 2 specs that i hate fighting. BUT.... and here comes the BIG BUT..... DO NOT NERF IT. Yes its lame, yes it can be frustrating... but lets not castrate every build out there, because we dont like fighting it.... we dont want stick fights.  There is things that require just a quarter of the brain that DE requires and performs better. (Not saying DE is crazy hard to play, just saying it requires atleast some brain, to score consistent and good results.) In all honesty.. we should not cry about thief... while there is literally Willbender and Harbinger "spam everything and pray" builds, and also "Boon-Bunkicator". So many builds that perform on a whole nother dimension.... yet we are here crying about Thiefs.

lastly: GUYS.... we are approacing Page 19 on a Thief cry thread....  *insert its time to stop meme*

But thats not the problem on Specter. It is the problematic cele set.Instead nerfing the spec they should adjust this set. Because there are also other classes which are pretty OP when wearing it (Cele Harbinger etc.).

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Yunari.9065

[Sahne.6950]

9 minutes ago, Yunari.9065 said:

But thats not the problem on Specter. It is the problematic cele set.Instead nerfing the spec they should adjust this set. Because there are also other classes which are pretty OP when  wearing it (Cele Harbinger etc.).

 

 

 

Cele has to much concentration, making stacking Might to easy.

OR might is too potent on builds with little power / conditiondamage. 

 

^ Full Cele gives 639Power and 639 Condidamage. | 25 Might give 750 power and 750 Condidamage. Having 25 might, more than doubles the offensive stats.... 

A Celebuild without might is nothing more than a bunker. The whole thing gets out of hand if the Celebuild can maintain 25 might.

It arguably has to many raw stats since the change in 2021, where they added concentration and expertise ontop, without lowering the "per stat" value of the other stats. But i think the real problem originates from how much value those builds gain from maintaining might.

But thats a diffrent topic.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Burial.1958]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

 

Cele has to much concentration, making stacking Might to easy.

OR might is too potent on builds with little power / conditiondamage. 

 

^ Full Cele gives 639Power and 639 Condidamage. | 25 Might give 750 power and 750 Condidamage. Having 25 might, more than doubles the offensive stats.... 

A Celebuild without might is nothing more than a bunker. The whole thing gets out of hand if the Celebuild can maintain 25 might.

It arguably has to many raw stats since the change in 2021, where they added concentration and expertise ontop, without lowering the "per stat" value of the other stats. But i think the real problem originates from how much value those builds gain from maintaining might.

But thats a diffrent topic.

 

 

Now for me it isn't an other topic really. Some peoples here want to nerf the thief -> Specter but it is the set which is problematic and not the class itself.

[Sahne.6950]

6 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

Now for me it isn't an other topic really. Some peoples here want to nerf the thief -> Specter but it is the set which is problematic and not the class itself.

This Thread was created wayy before specter was released. Originally it was about daredevils and DE sitting permastealth in keeps for hours and porting people in it.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

 

Cele has to much concentration, making stacking Might to easy.

OR might is too potent on builds with little power / conditiondamage. 

 

^ Full Cele gives 639Power and 639 Condidamage. | 25 Might give 750 power and 750 Condidamage. Having 25 might, more than doubles the offensive stats.... 

A Celebuild without might is nothing more than a bunker. The whole thing gets out of hand if the Celebuild can maintain 25 might.

It arguably has to many raw stats since the change in 2021, where they added concentration and expertise ontop, without lowering the "per stat" value of the other stats. But i think the real problem originates from how much value those builds gain from maintaining might.

But thats a diffrent topic.

 

 

It gets even better when some classes can also have access to other boons like fury, protection, regeneration, etc. :')

[Sahne.6950]

13 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

It gets even better when some classes can also have access to other boons like fury, protection, regeneration, etc. :')

yeah cele is the most overtuned thing since sliced bread and everyone knows that:D

Edited June 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Alcatraznc.3869]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:15 PM, Virdo.1540 said:

But now every class is tanky.

 

Well maybe because player have enough of getting one shot by something they cannot see nor hear. 

 

Ever since I switched to celestial, WvW has never been so much fun. I rarely get one shot by those perma stealth thief but sadly my damage output isnt high enough to kill them so they just run away (in stealth obviously). And now thief complain about celestial.

 

This is about as fun as a LB ranger mains complaining that WvW has too much reflect and "LB is no longer viable".