Nade engi

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:22 AM, solemn.9670 said:

I'm hoping so.

I'm less concerned about the braindead combos than I am just the constant near-unavoidable damage (I don't have infinite reflects like the nade engi has infinite grenades). Every one of those skills do far more than they should and the auto attack is, well, an auto attack it never goes on cd.

It's just like the "how to fight a shadow arts thief" meme; you don't, you just die because regardless of player skill it's going to win over your build unless you're using something equally untouched by balance and broken, and lord knows there are many builds like that right now, but for those of us hanging onto honour builds it's not so fun lmao.

*hits a 14k nade, instantly 50% of my healthbar has become barrier*

(I would post the braindead meme image here, but I'm afraid it's not exactly appropriate for gw2 forums and the mods give me enough spanks as is)

You used to be able to kill SA thief by bursting back.  It fell out of the meta for years because it died to power damage exchanges.

It's why the cries for reducing damage were always fought by the better members of the thief community.  We KNEW SA was going to dominate again the same way it used to and rule everything else out, and make the thief OP in the process.

Nade Egi is so egregious because it literally can't be punched back.  The only spec running comparable damage is soulbeast, which Scrapper is basically immune to, and no singular build counters the kit enough to out-duel it, including corrupt-heavy necros and movespeed-heavy thieves, due to its boon abuse.

The nature of the projectiles being AoE multi-hits delivered from stealth can't be reliably negated or forseen, AND bypasses blind and aegis, too.  It's just a safer version of RF ranger with better 1vX with the removal of retal.

[UNOwen.7132]

Nades are fine in every gamemode. In PvP its used as a filler for when your forge is cooling down, and Holo has builds without grenades that are about as good anyway. In PvE Engineer is a mediocre class. In WvW, Engineer is a good roamer, but its more down to the elite specs than grenade kit (core engineer notably is *not* a good roamer). Oh and in Zergs grenades are completely worthless since theyre projectiles.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Nade engi is elevated by the amount of projectile hate and superspeed every engineer spec has access to.

[SeTect.5918]

On 2/16/2022 at 10:22 PM, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Nade engi is elevated by the amount of projectile hate and superspeed every engineer spec has access to.

Except Mechanist, but yes I agree. 

However that means that grenade kit itself isn't the problem (as many say). 

I mentioned it multiple times but it isn't grenade kit which is so busted, its grenade kit + grenade trait + superspeed and some other e spec specific stuff that supports gren. kit. 

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

2 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Except Mechanist, but yes I agree. 

However that means that grenade kit itself isn't the problem (as many say). 

I mentioned it multiple times but it isn't grenade kit which is so busted, its grenade kit + grenade trait + superspeed and some other e spec specific stuff that supports gren. kit. 

Indeed.

[Sahne.6950]

All personal opinion here. (note that i am not playing engie and never have, so this opinion is just from "the receiving end")

I think the problem with nadescrapper is not the dmg of the nades, it is not the projectilehate, it is not the barrier, it is not stealth.... IT IS THE PERMANENTSUPERSPEED. The problem with the build is that nothing can chase it properly and that they can do full dmg while running away, aka being able to throw the grenades BEHIND them. running and spacing with superspeed is the defense of the nadescrapper. The thing where it gets out of hand is that they can stick to their defensive behaviour WHILE being offensive... they can kite,space AND deal damage without any drawbacks. Most classes atleast have to face the enemy to use their skills... nadescrapper is a diffrent story tho.  i see 2 very easy options to balance the nadescrapper that dont include lowering any of the dmg.

option a) tone down the superspeed a little bit. 100%uptime is really excessive. 70%uptime would go a long way. (same for Flamethrower;70% stabiuptime would leave small gaps where a skilled player can do something against a flamethrower engie!)

option b) make it so that grenades cant be thrown behind your back. atm scrapper feels like freshair on steroids! permasuperspeed and casts over the shoulder to get kills. superspeed only gives 100% movementspeedbuff when running forward. running sideways or backwards dont give the full 100%speedbuff. this would fix the current run and gun playstyle that we see from nadescrapper, where they keep running away from you while also killing you in the meantime. they would still keep all of their damage and mobility but it would limit this mindless " i-run-away-and-your-dying" gameplay we see atm.

Engie would need something in return tho, because i think the class doesnt need a nerf, just this headless gameplay needs to be looked at.

personally i would go with option a) and see if that is enough. As i am not a fan of nerfing something out of existance, like we have seen with alot of builds.... nadescrapper has its place and should not become useless. But it needs some small adjustments for sure. same goes for Flamethrower engie.

option b) would most likely kill nadescrapper as we know it right now, they would have to kite-turnaround-NADE-kite- repeat. They now have to choose wether to stay offensive or go defensive like basicly any other build around...    option b) would be a huge nerf to engie tho and it would need some kind of compensation.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Xenesis.6389]

Auto target aoes was such a bad option to add to the game(certain no los skills on certain classes abuse this too), I mean sure, fine, it's ok on aoes that have long cooldowns, but certainly not on ones that can be auto attack spammed.

Scrapper has had so much power creep added in their build, revamped gyros, superspeed duration cap raised, quickness, barrier generation, add explosive entrance to the mix, refreshed on dodge, but mirage gets a dodge slapped off them for daring to use it for anything other than defense. 🤔 🙄