Herald Support

[Lotus Bane.9387]

With the 10-target cap being removed, and Vindicator having possibly better support capabilities along with the current preference for Renegade's, do you think they may provide some possible buffs or adjustments for Herald? 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I do not.  Herald has been long forgotten on the back burner for Anet, being only good for filling boon gaps in WvW zergs and hand-kiting.  With all of their focus on EoD, I don't think Herald will be getting anything anytime soon.

[Zaret.1450]

all boons being 5 man might make alac herald somewhat used  but dont think itll become good enought

[ArthurDent.9538]

Im hoping that this will give anet a reason to bring p herald dps more inline with the rest of the classes but I feel like it's just going to be dumpstered without compensation as anet has a very long history of not caring about herald.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Vindicator is not a threat to herald as he wants the healer spot which is meh for herald.

However taking away 10 man boonshare is a huge problem. We all know that's the reason Herald exists in strikes and raid content, while in fractals you almost never see him.

Rather than dps i would like to see a different compensation:
Improved boons. Something we already know from some other professions, but here it would apply to all his facet boons (and allies affected by them)

Protection - from 33% damage reduction to 40%.
Regeneration - 50% more effective on poisoned targets (so generally ignoring poison healing reduction)
Fury - 5% extra critical chance.
Might - +10 condition damage per stack.  (we got all these traits for boosing power aspect but none for condition one)
Swiftness: + 50% movement speed.

With that he would be the best in slot spec for basic boons, something that would give him his current raid/strike spot in all group content.

 

[Virdo.1540]

There is a possibility for herald getting a slot in end game content groups. 

With each subgroup having to take one healer , one alac and one quickness there could 2roles be maintained in a 

heal alac herald. Maintaining all boons of herald + alac, while the other half could be filled with a stab quickness firebrand.

 

it would technically be an good &  ultrasave comp due to massive 5man healing on herald.... if herald wouldnt be so terrible on might stacking....

But still, it would be an incredible niche build and a squad/group will probably never be formed to fit one of those in. Hard to find any herald at all in pve.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Virdo.1540

[Infusion.7149]

It will be held back due to dominance in PVP and WVW. Herald not receiving buffs in PVE is solely due to competitive modes IMO.

If they do decide to buff herald the best place to start would probably be by increasing damage out on consume skills in glint to reduce passiveness.

[Zaret.1450]

1 hour ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Vindicator is not a threat to herald as he wants the healer spot which is meh for herald.

However taking away 10 man boonshare is a huge problem. We all know that's the reason Herald exists in strikes and raid content, while in fractals you almost never see him.

Rather than dps i would like to see a different compensation:
Improved boons. Something we already know from some other professions, but here it would apply to all his facet boons (and allies affected by them)

Protection - from 33% damage reduction to 40%.
Regeneration - 50% more effective on poisoned targets (so generally ignoring poison healing reduction)
Fury - 5% extra critical chance.
Might - +10 condition damage per stack.  (we got all these traits for boosing power aspect but none for condition one)
Swiftness: + 50% movement speed.

With that he would be the best in slot spec for basic boons, something that would give him his current raid/strike spot in all group content.

 

thing is if those boons got buffed it wouldnt be just on herald but on every class, in fact making all boons 5 man might help herald as a healer because even being subpar it can maintain better boons and easyer than vindi healer, as an example theres the alacrity on ventary, vindi might not be able to maintain it but herald should be able, also herald has better cc sustain and overall utility than a heal vindi in my opinion, if something had to be changed id say the celerity on facet of elements, maybe giving quickness? or maybe superspeed, as for vindi it is more of a pure healer, if it gives great heals, some shields and there are bosses where that is needed maybe we can see a heal scourge heal vindi compo somewhere.

On a side note please make herald shield better and rev healing not so dependant on ventary heal orbs.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

23 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

thing is if those boons got buffed it wouldnt be just on herald but on every class, in fact making all boons 5 man might help herald as a healer because even being subpar it can maintain better boons and easyer than vindi healer, as an example theres the alacrity on ventary, vindi might not be able to maintain it but herald should be able, also herald has better cc sustain and overall utility than a heal vindi in my opinion, if something had to be changed id say the celerity on facet of elements, maybe giving quickness? or maybe superspeed, as for vindi it is more of a pure healer, if it gives great heals, some shields and there are bosses where that is needed maybe we can see a heal scourge heal vindi compo somewhere.

On a side note please make herald shield better and rev healing not so dependant on ventary heal orbs.

Maybe i worded it wrong. What i mean that boons applied by herald would have these bonus effects. Not all boons applied by everyone as long as herald is in the group.

The Ventari alac is an abomination given a button. The energy costs and duration are so horrid, you're forced to spam it, taking away any agency or thought when in Ventari other then "keep pushing the alac button".

Meanwhile Herald can't have nice things because "He does have access to alac with Ventari". Yeah, about as good of an access as a warrior to healer and support roles...

Edited February 14, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Obtena.7952]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:06 AM, Lotus Bane.9387 said:

With the 10-target cap being removed, and Vindicator having possibly better support capabilities along with the current preference for Renegade's, do you think they may provide some possible buffs or adjustments for Herald? 

I doubt it will get more buffs from a isntanced group perspective. Renegade is already filling Alacrity, probably the best and Herald does provide a good support/healing hybrid. That's probably as good as it will get, in some cases better than other classes will ever see. I don't see Vindicator used in PVE group content. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[The Boz.2038]

10 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Maybe i worded it wrong. What i mean that boons applied by herald would have these bonus effects. Not all boons applied by everyone as long as herald is in the group.

The Ventari alac is an abomination given a button. The energy costs and duration are so horrid, you're forced to spam it, taking away any agency or thought when in Ventari other then "keep pushing the alac button".

Meanwhile Herald can't have nice things because "He does have access to alac with Ventari". Yeah, about as good of an access as a warrior to healer and support roles...

Yet one more reason why I think Ventari should be pretty much rebuilt from the ground up. 

Ugly, ugly Legend.

[Aeolus.3615]

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I doubt it will get more buffs from a isntanced group perspective. Renegade is already filling Alacrity, probably the best and Herald does provide a good support/healing hybrid. That's probably as good as it will get, in some cases better than other classes will ever see. I don't see Vindicator used in PVE group content. 

maybe  will be used on harder content since Anet stated that EoD content will have dificulty tiers to  choose from ?

Runing 2x power builds with jalis with 50% damage  and stability carpet if needed  seams a decent duo for pve tho.

EDIT: nvm just stack reapers...

@Lotus Bane.9387 maybe Anet could boost some quoficients we need to  carry EoD specs vs HoT Pof specs after  all ahahahha?????

@The Boz.2038 its amazing :D do u know how strong it means to heal like 10k aoes w/o even enter in combat?

The current tablet heals arround 7k on wvw, tho i  would love to get  its heal more  similiar  to pve or its energy reduced :)

 

Back in the days this tablet managed to give like 16k heals..x5 while herald would provide 1.4k regen ticks on each  ally every sec, even when was supper strong was not used cause noob boon spammers cant play w7o boon spam and game  also never needed a strong healer tho at least its what players belive...yet healing  alies  in  wvw for  15k every 3-4sec... managed to carry so much and help the Fb scrapper support, since its not a class to stack and spam it's labeled as useless, but that is due how wvw is blob boon ball spam or gtfo.

Tablet has its issues like any other Rev core utility has which is being to energy burden  and force players to  energy-management and  its not ment to be played by boon spammers.. its mostly a l2p issue.

The atitute player have towards  tablet design  reminds those players that QQ cause jalis was useless cause has no boons so they  were saying that was a not a support and was very selfish and useless utility.. go figure.. aoe boon spammers trying to play  rev.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[The Boz.2038]

Ineffective != badly designed. It has multiple redundant skills, clearly uninspired, and the fiddling with the tablet to proc a trait and some heals is just busywork. Hideous design.
But it kinda does deliver the numbers.

[Yasai.3549]

25 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

The current tablet heals arround 7k on wvw, tho i  would love to get  its heal more  similiar  to pve or its energy reduced 🙂

 

Back in the days this tablet managed to give like 16k heals..x5 while herald would provide 1.4k regen ticks on each  ally every sec, even when was supper strong was not used cause noob boon spammers cant play w7o boon spam and game  also never needed a strong healer tho at least its what players belive...yet healing  alies  in  wvw for  15k every 3-4sec... managed to carry so much and help the Fb scrapper support, since its not a class to stack and spam it's labeled as useless, but that is due how wvw is blob boon ball spam or gtfo.

Tablet has its issues like any other Rev core utility has which is being to energy burden  and force players to  energy-management and  its not ment to be played by boon spammers.. its mostly a l2p issue.

You can throw around all the numbers in the world and it won't change the fact that the entire design of "Proxy healing" via tablet will never be as good as something like Healbrand or Druid just aiming and vomiting.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Zaret.1450]

13 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Maybe i worded it wrong. What i mean that boons applied by herald would have these bonus effects. Not all boons applied by everyone as long as herald is in the group.

The Ventari alac is an abomination given a button. The energy costs and duration are so horrid, you're forced to spam it, taking away any agency or thought when in Ventari other then "keep pushing the alac button".

Meanwhile Herald can't have nice things because "He does have access to alac with Ventari". Yeah, about as good of an access as a warrior to healer and support roles...

the thing is i dont think anet will give herald good boons or increase herald boon effects without increasing it in other clases, as for ventary alac, yeah its a nightmare but in the end its there so anet has that excuse, id love if herald was remade so it is better and more fun but not likely to happen sadly

[Aeolus.3615]

51 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

You can throw around all the numbers in the world and it won't change the fact that the entire design of "Proxy healing" via tablet will never be as good as something like Healbrand or Druid just aiming and vomiting.

Druid is so amazing as a healer that is  used  as a  CC condi bot outside pve...

it just works on pve cause pve is ment  to be easy and anything work...

@zaswer.5246  besides improve some quoficients  i dont   see much that  can be  done, maybe change shield5 to be less selfish or improve herald F2  on its own legend?

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Ineffective != badly designed. It has multiple redundant skills, clearly uninspired, and the fiddling with the tablet to proc a trait and some heals is just busywork. Hideous design.
But it kinda does deliver the numbers.

What do u ment by redundancy? all skills are diferent...

Just some QoL touches would make it more smooth  to be played.

- Improve tablet movement and  reduce from 3  to 2 seconds,  and apply a 4sec CD into ventary blind truths trait since it's a blind  w/o CD, (when have continuous source of  alac i can almost perma aoe blind targets anyway adding some dodge and LoS breaks  its a  troll move), makes more  sense to add CD  to trait then nerf tablet  movement like Anet did for pvp..... 

- improve healing on tablet  movement slighttly a bit.

- Make Natural harmony cheaper or make it heal slightly  more outside PVE, (on pve i think it's balanced  since its a 10k aoe heal).

- Purifying Essence, needs  to be cheaper on all gamemodes or have its healing from removing condi boosted.

-Elite skill Energy expulsion needs to be stronger... burn all energy for a KB that m8 not even work..  :] boosting its  radios  would be amazing tho.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[The Boz.2038]

Clicking the tablet is busywork. Making it so to click more is more busywork. It is not the way you fix this legend.

How is it redundant, you ask?
OK, so, the tablet pulses healing. You move it to pulse more healing, possibly to blind enemies too. Every 3 seconds. Yay.
Protective Solace is a projectile hate bubble. So far so yay.
Natural Harmony is big heals. Possibly tiny alacrity (irrelevant). 
Purifying Essence is condi cleanse, possibly big heals. 
Energy Expulsion is condi cleanse, big heals, and CC. Costs all energy.

So, four baby heals, two to three big heals, two condi cleanses, some CC, and some projectile hate. One finisher, one combo field (the combo is more condi cleanse). The entire kit is thirsty, making it really hard to offer some more support via might or alacrity, or do any damage at all. 

[Aeolus.3615]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Clicking the tablet is busywork. Making it so to click more is more busywork. It is not the way you fix this legend.

How is it redundant, you ask?
OK, so, the tablet pulses healing. You move it to pulse more healing, possibly to blind enemies too. Every 3 seconds. Yay.
Protective Solace is a projectile hate bubble. So far so yay.
Natural Harmony is big heals. Possibly tiny alacrity (irrelevant). 
Purifying Essence is condi cleanse, possibly big heals. 
Energy Expulsion is condi cleanse, big heals, and CC. Costs all energy.

So, four baby heals, two to three big heals, two condi cleanses, some CC, and some projectile hate. One finisher, one combo field (the combo is more condi cleanse). The entire kit is thirsty, making it really hard to offer some more support via might or alacrity, or do any damage at all. 

 

"clicking on skill is busy  work", that can be aplied to any skill, tablet is ment to be use with tactical placement for better performance.

Its ment to be diferent not all classes and utilities need to be spammed, for that u already hjave scrapper druid and FB, and warriors to some extent lol...

[The Boz.2038]

Yes, sure, please pretend the previous posts never happened, then pounce on a word, ignoring clear context. 

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Yes, sure, please pretend the previous posts never happened, then pounce on a word, ignoring clear context. 

Im not ignoring that, u talked about tablet movement and i just focused that  tablet movement IMO doesnt need to be a massive heal, atm heals less than 1k arorund 800-900 and imo that's ok'ish, the only thing that kinda borks it its its CD that went from 2 to 4 and then to 3, its original CD was really decent, and its current 0.1 heal  coeficient outside pve  could be boosted, for sure i would love it to reach at least 1k lol... on pve its decent the main issue of this utility its the CD, 4 sec was to much, 3sec still makes it lag and be bit clunky, 2 sec like skill was orifinally was quite acceptable.

Anet nerfed its CD due ventari trait that blinds has no CD and peopel were spamming it in pvp.

IF anet improves the CD back to its original 2 sec and changes the quoficient for outside pve that skill imo is perfecttly fine.

i wont even talk about tablet passive pulses, its is as  much as a guardian pulses with the virtues aoe every 3 sec, arround  800hp every 3 sec...

Edited February 16, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[The Boz.2038]

The constant reclicking of the same skill that has no casting time, on cooldown, every 3 seconds, is busywork. Shortening the cooldown is even more busywork. Disconnecting the cooldown from the blind trait is an even worse idea.

The entire "click to move tablet and pulse heals and blinds every few seconds" aspect of the skill needs to be deleted entirely. The other skills need to get their own solid identity, and not overlap or be just a hilariously bad idea to use half the time.

[Aeolus.3615]

15 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

The constant reclicking of the same skill that has no casting time, on cooldown, every 3 seconds, is busywork. Shortening the cooldown is even more busywork. Disconnecting the cooldown from the blind trait is an even worse idea.

The entire "click to move tablet and pulse heals and blinds every few seconds" aspect of the skill needs to be deleted entirely. The other skills need to get their own solid identity, and not overlap or be just a hilariously bad idea to use half the time.

Wrong that is what makes it different from everything else wich is a good thing we already have lots of spamming support classes and we dont need more copy paste skills, also it  makes it a very unique and tactical skill, i can control its position w/o recasting some skills when using protective solace quite fast, protecting from some nader or range spike call for example, or if need to catch a spike on some player with Harmony i can move tablet and close solace basicly at same time and use its heal.

For the blinds spam balance Anet just need to put a ICD on the trait itself.... 

In some situation its faster to catch a spike to use harmony 1st and then use the tablet movement skill, but becomes harsher on the e-management.

 

Edit: was using tablet replacement word, but "tablet movement" is more acurate english.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

i can control its position

It's not that you "can control", you *have to*. If you're not, you're outright not utilizing your resources properly.

[Aeolus.3615]

12 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It's not that you "can control", you *have to*. If you're not, you're outright not utilizing your resources properly.

Excellent ... its how the legend works.

Question have u tried to change binds as in tablet movement skill to Q and make it a direct aoe cast on mouse position from the options? That's how i have my controlls setup up, so skill just go wherever i want w/o much effort.

Q = tablet movement/heals utility slot basicly  &   E= Natural harmony 

This way the clunky cast movement  and placement its gone and i dictate what i want to do faster and easier, ive been in situations that harmony even healed before reaching target >_> cause was to fast.

Note: For those who are using mouse > select zone to cast > click to cast, its a burden yes..having skills limited range automatic will help alot as well(at least this one game should force that wich would make some skills not glitch LoS buts that another story).

If the skill get back to its original 2 secs the flow of the tablet support gets really good, note as well staying in ventari as main legend and moving long distances pulling tablet over and over its not only wrong but idiotic players need to have some sense as well, during fight the positioning of it where i want its just amazing.

 

                     

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Aeolus.3615