Vindicator Build Brainstorming (All Gamemodes)

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I've seen this thread pop up in some of the other profession subforums and thought it'd be fun to do the same here. Curious what y'all are planning to test out when EoD launches next week. I didn't include any power Vindi builds but will for sure be testing out some of those as well as I spent most of my beta time trying out support stuff. Here are a few of mine:

 

 

1. Ventari/Alliance (WvW Support)

I played this build almost identically during beta 1 for probably about 15 hours and it worked pretty well, and that was before the alliance swapping was adjusted. Very potent healing and very high burst cleansing. IMO it is better than a Ventari/Glint Herald as it has a lot more active support within its kit. Won't compete with FB/Scrap/Tempest, but is fun nonetheless. First 2 Salv traits are flex depending on your sustain needs. Charged Mists was a bit awkward to upkeep with Alliance stance, but it is much easier to do so with SV than Arch, and the build will basically camp SV the whole time. GS is used exclusively for the block and dash. Can take hammer or mace/axe instead, but I am generally running solo or with a friend or 2, so the survivability is important for me. Will have to see how much of a difference running double energy sigils makes.

 

2. Jalis/Alliance Retribution (WvW Support)

More of a frontline build than the Ventari variant. I ran this during beta 4 but only played it a few hours so didn't get to test it too much. Less healing and cleanse of course, but Jalis carries so it has its advantages. Taking Ret over Invo provides some nice projectile denial uptime as you'll be spamming the SV heal a lot. Invo could work well too, but I'd say that Ret helps fill in the gaps of Jalis better. As with the above build, you can swap GS out for hammer for mace/axe. If taking axe, I'd probably opt for Dwarven Battle Training. 

 

3. Celestial Mallyx/Alliance (WvW Roaming/Smallscale)

Also, gonna experiment with a build like this. I didn't test out any sort of condi or hybrid Vindicator build whatsoever so I have no idea how it will actually perform, but I'm gonna give it a run to see how it compares to something like cele Herald. It is able to profit from every stat from cele, and although the Vindi traitline doesn't actually enhance condition damage, it still comes with its own benefits. There are a lot of traits and sigils that I will have to play around with of course, so this is a very rough draft. Thinking Invocation will be a good choice to provide stability and stable fury. Haven't used Roiling Mists in ages, but it will help bring up the crit chance to 75%; Call of the Alliance seems a bit lackluster so I'm not sure about Song of the Mists, and running GS over staff will encourage a heavier emphasis on power damage which would fit in better with RM.

 

 

[Thon.3780]

Which armor is suit for power build vindicator ?
wanderer set.? Or back to origin berserker?

Edited February 22, 2022 by Thon.3780
Correct word

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmhAEJlxQmMPCl1RnMOKlRSqMCqkJ/ldsD-zRIYRUxXG1mCVUB2eAEHjGA-e

 

It's woefully uncreative, attempting to do as much damage as possible.  This is the build that I'm going to be doing the auto-attack tests on, since I think the raid-DPS build will look very similar.  The non-auto strategy is pretty simple: spam Scavenger Burst and Nomad's Advance while in Alliance Stance to buff myself up.  Once I run out of energy and are fully buffed up, swap to shiro and turn on impossible odds.  If I need more survival, I'll swap out Assassin's Presence for Battle-Scarred and just become immortal.

 

[Jaykay.9641]

Really excited about the Celestial Vindicator options for small scale WvW. The build I'm going to experiment with will be focusing on Chill application and duration.

Chill-estial Vindicator

I apologize for the corny name, but it was the best I could do 🙂

Anyway, build focuses on the OP celestial stats, high chill uptime with Grenth Runes, and using sword/Axe/GS. Very similar to what @Za Shaloc.3908posted, with a couple tweaks. I messed around with this a lot during beta and had some very good duels with this as the Chill uptime can make kiting easy if players aren't reliably remove the Chill.

Notes:

• Corruption Grandmaster is flexible as usual
• I'm a big fan of the 10 sec healing skills in Alliance. Saw some feedback during beta that they would like bigger chunk heals with higher CD's. I disagree, the 10 sec CD on Alliance heals allow some new runes to be used other than the usual. There are about a dozen rune sets that activate on healing skills so Vindicator will get some use out of these (Herald, Brawler, Flock, Revenant, to name a few)
  • You can remove Invocation in this build and replace with Retribution and use Centaur Runes for perma-Swiftness without using Rapid Flow (one of my biggest complaints on Core Rev - only source of swiftness in all of core is in 1 trait). Adjust sigils to compensate for removal of Cleansing Channel if needed (and Corruption Grandmaster)
• I challenge all WvW and PvP'ers to NOT use Vindicator Grandmaster trait Saint of Zu Heltzer. It was way OP in the first beta and even still too good in 2nd beta. I'm expecting another nerf. If not, it's going to be a very big crutch that opposing players will probably complain about 🙂 This is why I'm going to try Vassals of the Empire for more Chill application at the start.
• Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew will seem like the logical food choice but I'm not sold on it due to the 100 energy usage for dodge so the Might generation isn't as impactful as say Mirage. This is why I like the Holographic Super Cake - less energy regen percent, but I like the health regen compensation for might loss instead. (I bought a ton of them right after SAB event for Mirage but never used them and they coming in handy for Vindicator lol)
• Finally, I chose Sword over Mace for main hand as it's more Chill application, but also another evade as block and dodge uptime isn't the highest without staff.

Challenges

• Mobility isn't the highest - you can spam Nomad's Advance and GS 3 for dashes, but not even close to Shiro. The escape comes from Chill application.
• Low block/evade frames most Revs are used to

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jaykay.9641

[Za Shaloc.3908]

6 hours ago, Thon.3780 said:

Which armor is suit for power build vindicator ?
wanderer set.? Or back to origin berserker?

 

For armor set I'll prob just run Zerk/Mara for WvW, maybe with some Dragon too depending on what traits I take. For PvE I imagine it'll be full Zerk, but haven't done any research to see whether any Dragon would be worth. 

 

2 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmhAEJlxQmMPCl1RnMOKlRSqMCqkJ/ldsD-zRIYRUxXG1mCVUB2eAEHjGA-e

 

It's woefully uncreative, attempting to do as much damage as possible.  This is the build that I'm going to be doing the auto-attack tests on, since I think the raid-DPS build will look very similar.  The non-auto strategy is pretty simple: spam Scavenger Burst and Nomad's Advance while in Alliance Stance to buff myself up.  Once I run out of energy and are fully buffed up, swap to shiro and turn on impossible odds.  If I need more survival, I'll swap out Assassin's Presence for Battle-Scarred and just become immortal.

 

 

Seems solid. Is this all for PvE? I'll prob run something similar for OW content. I hadn't realized until now that Death Drop gives 10x vuln 😮, so that'll work nicely with Dance of Death. Looking forward to the stamina sigil bunny smash memes in open world.

 

23 minutes ago, Jaykay.9641 said:

Really excited about the Celestial Vindicator options for small scale WvW. The build I'm going to experiment with will be focusing on Chill application and duration.

Chill-estial Vindicator

I apologize for the corny name, but it was the best I could do 🙂

Anyway, build focuses on the OP celestial stats, high chill uptime with Grenth Runes, and using sword/Axe/GS. Very similar to what @Za Shaloc.3908posted, with a couple tweaks. I messed around with this a lot during beta and had some very good duels with this as the Chill uptime can make kiting easy if players aren't reliably remove the Chill.

Notes:

• Corruption Grandmaster is flexible as usual
• I'm a big fan of the 10 sec healing skills in Alliance. Saw some feedback during beta that they would like bigger chunk heals with higher CD's. I disagree, the 10 sec CD on Alliance heals allow some new runes to be used other than the usual. There are about a dozen rune sets that activate on healing skills so Vindicator will get some use out of these (Herald, Brawler, Flock, Revenant, to name a few)
  • You can remove Invocation in this build and replace with Retribution and use Centaur Runes for perma-Swiftness without using Rapid Flow (one of my biggest complaints on Core Rev - only source of swiftness in all of core is in 1 trait). Adjust sigils to compensate for removal of Cleansing Channel if needed (and Corruption Grandmaster)
• I challenge all WvW and PvP'ers to NOT use Vindicator Grandmaster trait Saint of Zu Heltzer. It was way OP in the first beta and even still too good in 2nd beta. I'm expecting another nerf. If not, it's going to be a very big crutch that opposing players will probably complain about 🙂 This is why I'm going to try Vassals of the Empire for more Chill application at the start.
• Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew will seem like the logical food choice but I'm not sold on it due to the 100 energy usage for dodge so the Might generation isn't as impactful as say Mirage. This is why I like the Holographic Super Cake - less energy regen percent, but I like the health regen compensation for might loss instead. (I bought a ton of them right after SAB event for Mirage but never used them and they coming in handy for Vindicator lol)
• Finally, I chose Sword over Mace for main hand as it's more Chill application, but also another evade as block and dodge uptime isn't the highest without staff.

Challenges

• Mobility isn't the highest - you can spam Nomad's Advance and GS 3 for dashes, but not even close to Shiro. The escape comes from Chill application.
• Low block/evade frames most Revs are used to
•  

 

I like your build because you are staying away from the crutches of Tormenting Runes & Saint zu-Heltzer. I agree with you about zu-Heltzer; I am 100% anticipating a nerf since it provides sooo much healing and barrier, but it does worry me a bit that they'll overnerf it and not tune up the coefficients for the sake of support builds. If I don't run Tormenting Runes I will try out Grenth. Was thinking something like Traveler could be nice too so I can opt out of Rapid Flow and get more vigor uptime from Spirit Boon, or maybe even Firework for more vigor and same reasons as Traveler. Also, I totally see value in running Vassals of the Empire; the prot alone is huge value. Did you try this at all in either of the previous Vindi betas? Thanks for sharing!

[Buran.3796]

    I'm really only interested in builds with a potential to work in WvW (both roaming to small and large zerg scale) and PvP, since most of pure damage focused PvE builds trend to fail if you figth vs humans. So, those are the two variants I would try in the next weeks:

   Power:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAEZlxQHsOqhxROMP6hRSfMCKgl+VX8H-zVRYBR1GOsTJMJajKqMFC9KCU8JIg/WEeGA-w

   Fireworks runes could be replaced by Leadership ones, but since they provide the much needed 25% increase movement speed and Vindicator has lower mobility than core, herald or Renegade I think that FW fit better. Also, probably will need Energy sigils in both weapons and not in the staff alone. Diviner + zerker stats since I think that quickness is an absolute must for the greatsword; I don't see it working without that boon, and the duration of the quickness sources is too short.

   I don't have much faith in that because is too vulnerable to weaknes and to burst after the dodge, and also  can't be translated to PvP, so I feel is doomed from the start, but whatever...

   Hybrid:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAElflxQHsOqhxROMP6hRSfMCKgjqSf8H-z1IY1o+/MiUVlpUVxngw9b5RzK-w

   Full celestial, again Fireworks runes; much better stats but worse sustain over time due the lack of Devastation. Also impossible to translate to PvP.

   For PvE none of them would beat condi Renegade/condi Herald, which are WAY easier to play compared to even full PvE dps Vindicator builds, which require complex rotations and have lower tankiness compared with previous condi builds with either Nightmare (more damage) or Torment (a bitless damage but more sustain) runes.

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

2 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

Seems solid. Is this all for PvE? I'll prob run something similar for OW content. I hadn't realized until now that Death Drop gives 10x vuln 😮, so that'll work nicely with Dance of Death. Looking forward to the stamina sigil bunny smash memes in open world.

 

It's for overworld PVE.  We don't have all the numbers yet, so I don't know if the raid/fractal build will be Shiro + Alliance or Shiro + Jalis.  This is the kind of profession where a bunch of small adjustments can be made, depending on circumstance, so it is hard to commit to one exact build.

Though in general, I'm not sure if there's another good way to play Vind in PVE.  Small tweaks aside, the two big roles that Vind has going for it are DPS and Healer, but the healer is... awkward to play.  Healers ae really just the boons of a group, and the boon portfolio of the Vind isn't good.  It can give might and protection on dodge, but this is mutually exclusive with its healing dodge.  It can give alacrity by camping Ventari and spamming natural harmony... barely.  Natural Harmony caps out at 4 seconds of alacrity, which is ironically how long it takes to accrue 20 energy to use it.  Aside from that it has regeneration, but not in ventari and vigor, which doesn't matter much nowadays.  The one thing it has going for it is a theoretically massive volume of direct healing, but that isn't what most groups need.

The best version of healing Vind I can make is this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmhAYFllQmMKClNRnsKKlFSqsBqkn+kV0F-zRJYqRFfZUdFkeK47q4XA-e

Which, ironically, doesn't take the healing dodge.  Protection, Might, and Extending the duration of alacrity are far more important than extra healing on a spec that already has high heals.  This thing can do in a pinch, but I don't think that raid/fractal/strike teams are seriously looking at it.  

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

In speaking of WvW, I currently use a hybrid stat build for both Herald and Renegade, with a slight lean on power.  I tried to use the same setup for Vindicator, but found the damage output very lacking.  V’s traits, dodge, GS, and utilizes are too power stat oriented to be of use on a condi or hybrid variant, even with the sprinkled condi application from them. 

[Bish.8627]

I have been running the meta battle power bombardment build for so long, slightly changed and with the ability that gives extra energy swapping legend under 10, I really enjoy it because I am almost always doing something, with a new weapon to boot, it will be even better. So probably going to straight swap Vindicator in. Only thing I will miss is that vuln generation for battle scars, but using spear as second strike might help.

The other thing that puzzles me is the second tree, which will be better for keeping that dodge active.

[kanorsanity.9752]

what is a good pve build for vindicator?

[Thon.3780]

For pve , I think about this casual and basic

 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmyAwyFlxQmMP6k1RpMOClRSqMCqkp1Ve0H-zRJYnRHfZUYF0bKI7A-e
 

just basic power, hit use burst quickness till energy less than 10 %, switch to shiro with 75 energy, do quickness hit with phase traversal and switch back Ally with 75 ( can do 3 time burst) 

swap for clean , have trait gain mark life drain for sustain. 
every stance give you might.

I drop precision and ferocity to focus only power and might stack

rapid flow for emergency case or can’t hit drain life. Then use any skill to refill health
high armor high health 

[hainese.9216]

I've been playing around with this (mostly) celestial hybrid build in general PvE and in WvW roaming.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmyAkeZlZSMsTyjlSdMUijpSksSigjqUVsF-zVRYVRHTOC2nSCSgMFC9KC6QBo4Zh3pN-w

 

It makes use of the boon uptime to maintain close to permanent 25 might, Vigor, Fury, Regeneration, and Protection - very high swiftness uptime, access to fire aura through mace 2 into Luxon alliance leap, and a defensive set with staff & Kurzick Alliance.

 

I think that changing invocation to Top, Middle, Top might be more optimal to bring swiftness into the mix, but the mobility/evades from Shiro I thought would make up for it and the extra vigor and small might is good.

 

Taking Malyx over Shiro is also an option -- but Shiro pumps some might, quickness, evade, shadowstep, movement speed, strong CC to tick condis, and regain of endurance in one legend.. so it fits quite well - I've switched between them and haven't found a huge difference in terms of DPS

Edited March 3, 2022 by hainese.9216

[Buran.3796]

   Completed my first 10 Conquest clasificatory matches playing entirely with power Vindicator (the build I posted up), using Traveler runes and berserker amulet (but changed to demolisher soon, because the damage was good enough and I'm still learning, the extra armor allows more mistakes).

   Won 5 and lost 5, not great, not terrible. Plan to try to climb from gold I to III using solely the spec. New specs were from 20% to 60% of the builds I saw in the matches. I think that is stronger than other previous Revenant "bruiser" builds in terms of sustain + damage, but still trying to figure if would be better or worse than the power Renegade. It won't beat power Herald at the #1 spot, tho.

  The bad part is that I see very limited chance for having a viable condi/hybrid variant in PvP: maybe in WvW due celestial or trailblazer stats, but in PvP condi damage just not on par with the power variants, and the spec is not suited to to deliver significative condi pressure (or cc):

[Feduddle.5209]

I've been playing around with the new Dragon stats with Fireworks for an open world build, and am quite happy with the results.  It's tanky, mobile, does decent damage, and maintains might/fury/protection.

Here's the cool part.  You have around 4k power, 90% precision, and 15% boon duration.  With the Jade Offensive buffs added, you are pretty much unstoppable in open world, getting 25 might, fury, and ridiculously high power as soon as you enter combat while having the survivability to take on 20 Aetherblades at once.

Definitely recommend as an open world Vindicator build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAExzld0RMxsmaiLu5kTd1tneyLv91XkRugCiIiJ/1esF-zVRYBRNSYOc9nREygKUCK+CEwe42eLjaGB-w

[Zikory.6871]

WvW Zerg Power dps. 
Gear: Some mix of Mara, Zerk, Dragon, Assassins. ~60% crit caps with fury. 
GS / Hammer. At least 1 energy sigil. 
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAIFlZSHsTqhlSOMU6hpSfsSKgJ7lZsD-zVZYBBxvF0gYUxKkmSgMLhajAbPABsHeL6PDA-w

Vindicators melee damage is really strong. Both Ally legend and dwarf bring a lot to melee, the dodge hits quite hard and GS is pretty good, although slow (imo). You'll want at least enough support in your party so you can use your dodge offensively.

If I'm being honest though, if you want to be useful to your group bring a Herald or Dragon hunter instead. Herald offers better group utility while having a easier time with solid range spikes. Dragon hunter is well...not nerfed...  

I am having fun playing it though, still not a fan of only 1 dodge but I am looking forward to seeing what they do with Vindicator. 

[Thon.3780]

For condi vindicator,  for pve

just my opinion, it should be 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAkeFlhQmsI6kJRpMIClBSqMBqkj6SX0F-zxIY1o7/QyUC0pCImhgEHA-e

 

Nearly permanent- regeneration after jump 20 sec 

 Mace as main weapon with quickness from burst .
Axe 4,5. Anguished and reaver rage for CC. ( but I want cc good as staff 😞 )

GS as sun weapon for block and range 900 attack. (5 guaranteed hit)

spear , just press and let it auto attack.

 

[ZeroSkitzo.5403]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:46 PM, Jaykay.9641 said:

Really excited about the Celestial Vindicator options for small scale WvW. The build I'm going to experiment with will be focusing on Chill application and duration.

Chill-estial Vindicator

I apologize for the corny name, but it was the best I could do 🙂

Anyway, build focuses on the OP celestial stats, high chill uptime with Grenth Runes, and using sword/Axe/GS. Very similar to what @Za Shaloc.3908posted, with a couple tweaks. I messed around with this a lot during beta and had some very good duels with this as the Chill uptime can make kiting easy if players aren't reliably remove the Chill.

Notes:

• Corruption Grandmaster is flexible as usual
• I'm a big fan of the 10 sec healing skills in Alliance. Saw some feedback during beta that they would like bigger chunk heals with higher CD's. I disagree, the 10 sec CD on Alliance heals allow some new runes to be used other than the usual. There are about a dozen rune sets that activate on healing skills so Vindicator will get some use out of these (Herald, Brawler, Flock, Revenant, to name a few)
  • You can remove Invocation in this build and replace with Retribution and use Centaur Runes for perma-Swiftness without using Rapid Flow (one of my biggest complaints on Core Rev - only source of swiftness in all of core is in 1 trait). Adjust sigils to compensate for removal of Cleansing Channel if needed (and Corruption Grandmaster)
• I challenge all WvW and PvP'ers to NOT use Vindicator Grandmaster trait Saint of Zu Heltzer. It was way OP in the first beta and even still too good in 2nd beta. I'm expecting another nerf. If not, it's going to be a very big crutch that opposing players will probably complain about 🙂 This is why I'm going to try Vassals of the Empire for more Chill application at the start.
• Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew will seem like the logical food choice but I'm not sold on it due to the 100 energy usage for dodge so the Might generation isn't as impactful as say Mirage. This is why I like the Holographic Super Cake - less energy regen percent, but I like the health regen compensation for might loss instead. (I bought a ton of them right after SAB event for Mirage but never used them and they coming in handy for Vindicator lol)
• Finally, I chose Sword over Mace for main hand as it's more Chill application, but also another evade as block and dodge uptime isn't the highest without staff.

Challenges

• Mobility isn't the highest - you can spam Nomad's Advance and GS 3 for dashes, but not even close to Shiro. The escape comes from Chill application.
• Low block/evade frames most Revs are used to

Hey! Curious if you’re still trying out a cele vindicator build or moved on? With recent GS5 nerf and dodge nerf (which you called), I’m trying to find other ways to solo roam in wvw with it.

Thanks!

[ZeroSkitzo.5403]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:14 PM, hainese.9216 said:

I've been playing around with this (mostly) celestial hybrid build in general PvE and in WvW roaming.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmyAkeZlZSMsTyjlSdMUijpSksSigjqUVsF-zVRYVRHTOC2nSCSgMFC9KC6QBo4Zh3pN-w

 

It makes use of the boon uptime to maintain close to permanent 25 might, Vigor, Fury, Regeneration, and Protection - very high swiftness uptime, access to fire aura through mace 2 into Luxon alliance leap, and a defensive set with staff & Kurzick Alliance.

 

I think that changing invocation to Top, Middle, Top might be more optimal to bring swiftness into the mix, but the mobility/evades from Shiro I thought would make up for it and the extra vigor and small might is good.

 

Taking Malyx over Shiro is also an option -- but Shiro pumps some might, quickness, evade, shadowstep, movement speed, strong CC to tick condis, and regain of endurance in one legend.. so it fits quite well - I've switched between them and haven't found a huge difference in terms of DPS

Similar to my ask of the other guy - are you still trying cele vindi? Have you landed on a favorite build?

[Catchyfx.5768]

Vallun streamed with cele vindi

Gs and swords shiro alliance

Dont know runes

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmxAExzlxQmMP6k1RpMOClRSqMCqkjqUX0F-z1IY1o+vE8+AEOvlqMrA-w

 

Maybe he will make a video, but as he said, vindicator is dogshit vs outnumbered fights, but rly solid in 1v1 i tried it myself with dura runes in wvw and it was great but when fight gets 2v1 you fall of very quickly, usualy after dodge. And it was unable to compete with other cele builds. He was killing mostly full zerker players.

 

He was saying it is better then cele herald, but he is anet partner so maybe it was just "show them it isnt that bad pls"

Edited March 19, 2022 by Catchyfx.5768
Gramar

[ZeroSkitzo.5403]

3 hours ago, Catchyfx.5768 said:

Vallun streamed with cele vindi

Gs and swords shiro alliance

Dont know runes

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmxAExzlxQmMP6k1RpMOClRSqMCqkjqUX0F-z1IY1o+vE8+AEOvlqMrA-w

 

Maybe he will make a video, but as he said, vindicator is dogshit vs outnumbered fights, but rly solid in 1v1 i tried it myself with dura runes in wvw and it was great but when fight gets 2v1 you fall of very quickly, usualy after dodge. And it was unable to compete with other cele builds. He was killing mostly full zerker players.

 

He was saying it is better then cele herald, but he is anet partner so maybe it was just "show them it isnt that bad pls"

Thanks for sharing! I imagine he’ll make a vid. Curious he went S/S over M/A. Also surprised he said cele herald was worse since I know he loves cele herald. 

I’ve been playing harnes’s build any been enjoying it. Still a lot to learn with the alliance stance and making it most effective. Also running GS over staff for fun but staff would be better in outnumbered fights.

[Catchyfx.5768]

14 hours ago, ZeroSkitzo.5403 said:

Thanks for sharing! I imagine he’ll make a vid. Curious he went S/S over M/A. Also surprised he said cele herald was worse since I know he loves cele herald. 

I’ve been playing harnes’s build any been enjoying it. Still a lot to learn with the alliance stance and making it most effective. Also running GS over staff for fun but staff would be better in outnumbered fights.

He started with mace/axe and gs (or sw/sw). And mallyx alliance and was changing stuff and ended up with shiro alliance and gs sw/sw. It help him to have some defence offense at both weapon sets, m/a was better offensively but with one dodge he died very quickly without blok or evade. 

[ZeroSkitzo.5403]

4 hours ago, Catchyfx.5768 said:

He started with mace/axe and gs (or sw/sw). And mallyx alliance and was changing stuff and ended up with shiro alliance and gs sw/sw. It help him to have some defence offense at both weapon sets, m/a was better offensively but with one dodge he died very quickly without blok or evade. 

Ah good to know. Hopefully he will make a cele vind vid soon and hear is decision making, etc. I forgot to mention I’m also using malyx over Shiro right now just for different play style. I mailed cele renegade for too long with Jalis/Shiro or Bubble/Shiro. 

[Buran.3796]

19 hours ago, ZeroSkitzo.5403 said:

Curious he went S/S over M/A. Also surprised he said cele herald was worse since I know he loves cele herald. 

   He started with swords + greatsword due mace has condition damage, but lacks defense (neither axe or off hand sword), whereas staff has defense but barely does any damage in a hybrid spec. So double sword gave him physical damage + chill (and torment due the trait) and the sword #3 evade, and greatsword gave him also damage, chill + torment, and a block. But despite crushing randoms, dueling vs a good celestial Virtuoso the build was very weak: He was barely surviving while the Virtuoso was blocking almost everything with aegis and filling him with condis. The Virtusoso never fell below 50% and most of the time remained at 85% HP or full heal.

   Later Vallun was experimenting with mace.

   Imo celestial Herald is stronger. The positive thing is that Kurzik's Tree Song is a really powerful cleanse/healing skill, but that's all: celestial Mesmers, Necros, Rangers, Engies, Eles and even Guardians should have the upper hand. Vindi is not designed to be a great hybrid fighter. My argument is that Herald at leas can combo mace + axe with sword + shield, and a couple of dodges, and more freedom with the sigils and runes, so you have damage bul also blocks and heals and cleanses in the shield, plus more cc, Infuse Light and am AoE stbreak which reveals stealth.

[Telgum.6071]

It's been a while since I used to play Celestial builds but I don't think the current Vindicator is better than Herald when talking about Celestial stats.

Those builds are about stacking boons (Herald is better), stacking conditions (Vindicator is meh, Herald at least has Mallyx'sFacet) and surviving the long run (Herald is way better). Unless there is some weird broken healing empowered by Celestial healing power and Viktor + Saint Shield, I don't see Vindicator being comparable to Herald.

Not to mention the single dodge joke.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Telgum.6071
Typo

[Esufer.8762]

I've ended up here for WvW roaming for now.
Did quite a bit of testing with Alliance Stance - which had some nice utility but felt like an extra plate for spin for not a huge amount of return outside of Nomad's Advance and Tree Song, and I also did a lot of testing with the Retribution traitline, but didn't feel like we can make the most of Dwarven Battle training and I prefer the more constant sustain of the Battle Scars setup than Steadfast Rejuvenation.

 

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAExzlxQmMP6k1RpMOClRSqMCqkps1f8H-zVIYRUzfINpAyUK0rIQjXgA2D32rhCzAA-w

 

Also running the same build in spvp, with Divinity rune and Zerker amulet.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Esufer.8762