"Fixed a bug that caused legend swapping to activate certain sigils that activate when swapping weapons."

[Scoobaniec.9561]

8 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

Maybe to troll.

I mean it has to be cuz i cant believe someoneeeee

...

🙂

 

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't get that comment. Anet don't want sigils to swap on legend swap for Revenant because that's not what the sigils are intended to do. It can't be more simple than that. 

Again, you're just caught up on Anet calling it a bug. It's irrelevant what it's called. What's relevant here is the intent. There is no argument where Anet was wrong to change it because they called it a bug. 

Ok then why rev and no other classes using sigils in same manner?

[Kidel.2057]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:43 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

No the change isn't stupid because it's obvious Anet wants weapon swap sigils to trigger on weapon swaps. Imagine that the weapon swap sigils working on Revenant the same way they work on the other classes that have weapon swaps. Who would have expected such a strange thing to happen. 

Interesting how you completely omitted from your quote the part where I explain WHY it's stupid. The reason being you can still virtually trigger "on swap" sigils via legendswap IF you give up your weaponswap. So it's objectively bad design.
In case you decide to skip part of my post again, I'll repeat: it's objectively bad design. 

That being said, other professions have similar F mechanics that DO trigger "on swap" sigils and work exactly like legendswap used to do. Guardian tomes, Necro shroud, Spectre shroud. All those F skills are used very often, even more so than legendswap on vindicator.

So just to recap we have: 
1. A change that was called a "bugfix" when we have direct proof (2 forum posts) of the original Rev developer claiming it's intended by design. This alone should shut you up if you had any decency. 
2. A way to still trigger "on swap" sigils via legendswap if you just give up a second weapon (aka: bad design). The part of my post you avoided to quote. 
3. Other classes that have similar mechanisms, so the game just got more inconsistent. Something you claim it's different from legendswap, please explain how. 
4. A full list of nerfs on core Rev and Vindicator.  From one hand making Vindicator better than other specs (especially Herald), while nerfing Vindicator in all game modes. 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that patch note entry was made only to justify a nerf to Sigil of Energy on Vindicator and try to pass it as a bugfix. And that's absolutely hilarious. 

Again: this is all to nerf Vindicator and try to avoid calling it a nerf, since Revenant got nerfed big time in this patch and for no reason at all. They didn't want to upset people and in my eyes that just backfired. 

Hope you give up your mirror climbing dude. It's getting embarassing. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Kidel.2057
typos

[Obtena.7952]

53 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

Interesting how you completely omitted from your quote the part where I explain WHY it's stupid.

Don't worry, I didn't miss it. The fact is that Anet changed this to how it was intended to work. 

[Mini Crinny.6190]

14 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

yes I understood well but then for the revenant it was not a bug. It's them who set it up.

It's probably a bug tbh, it just hasn't been fixed until now which is why its dumb because people then think it's a feature of the class, Weaver has had a bug since PoF beta and it's still there so maybe they will fix that next year or so

[Obtena.7952]

6 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Ok then why rev and no other classes using sigils in same manner?

That doesn't make sense ... the sigil triggers on weapon swaps on other classes that have weapon swaps. 

[Kidel.2057]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Don't worry, I didn't miss it. The fact is that Anet changed this to how it was intended to work. 

So are you just going to completely ignore the 2 posts made by Roy saying that the "on swap" triggering on legendswap was supposed to work like that? And are you also ignoring all the other F skills of all the other classes (literally) that trigger "on swap" sigils? 

You're claiming "that's how it was supposed to work" with no basis and directly contradicting facts. 

  

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't make sense ... the sigil triggers on weapon swaps on other classes that have weapon swaps. 

No, they trigger on F skills too. And also on kits. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Kidel.2057

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

So are you just going to completely ignore the 2 posts made by Roy saying that the "on swap" triggering on legendswap was supposed to work like that? And are you also ignoring all the other F skills of all the other classes (literally) that trigger "on swap" sigils? 

You're claiming "that's how it was supposed to work" with no basis and directly contradicting facts. 

I am ... because Anet can change how they want the game to work at ANY TIME.  And yes, I'm also ignoring how other classes trigger Swap sigils because they aren't Revenants. We are talking about revenants. Anet doesn't want Revenants to trigger swap sigils on legend swap ... so they changed it. That's not wrong just because some other class does something else. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Kidel.2057]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I am ... because Anet can change how they want the game to work at ANY TIME. 

I'd be ok with them saying "we decided to change it" or "we nerfed it". Again, for the third time: the problem is that they're trying to claim it was a bug, when it's a fact that it was intended behaviour. The fact that they now want a new behaviour (and only on Revenant) doesn't make that retroactively a bug. It's simply a change. Hell, I'm a CTO and I'm arguing issue types with a random dude on a game forum. 

It's like if you have a wireframe and a mockup saying that the forum buttons have to be red, and after 6 years you go around saying "well, we now want the buttons to be blue, so the red buttons are a bug". 

Sorry, it doesn't work like that and devs at ANet know it perfectly. So claiming it's a bugfix it's probably a deliberate way to hide the fifth nerf in a patchnote hoping people would not recognize it (or hoping to get guys like you blindly defending them through mirror climbing). 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Kidel.2057

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Kidel.2057 said:

I'd be ok with them saying "we decided to change it" or "we nerfed it". Again, for the third time: the problem is that they're trying to claim it was a bug,

What they call it isn't a problem. What it's called doesn't change how it works or why it was changed. IF this is the problem for you, it's semantics. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Kidel.2057]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

What they call it isn't a problem. What it's called doesn't change how it works or why it was changed. IF this is the problem for you, it's semantics. 

We are arguing how they are calling it. For the 4th time. Impressive how you can read a sentence 3 times and still not get the meaning. Or maybe you're just trolling.

 If you're not here to discuss the way they called it, then have fun talking to the mirror you've been desperately trying to climb. 

And also please explain to all of us why that behaviour has been called "a bug" only on Revenant while it's still there on literally every other class in some form. 

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Kidel.2057 said:

We are arguing how they are calling it. For the 4th time.

And I'm telling you that's semantics. It's irrelevant what it's called. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Kidel.2057]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

And I'm telling you that's semantics. It's irrelevant what it's called. 

So you should probably stop posting here, right? You don't care how it is called yet you're replying in a thread about how it's called. 

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

So you should probably stop posting here, right? You don't care how it is called yet you're replying in a thread about how it's called. 

I probably shouldn't. It's not about what I care about. It's a fallacy to argue semantics to say the change shouldn't have happened, which is exactly what people are doing. 

I mean, have whatever hangups you want about what Anet called it, but that doesn't impact that it wasn't working how they wanted, so they changed it. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Kidel.2057]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I probably shouldn't. It's not about what I care about. It's a fallacy to argue semantics to say the change shouldn't have happened, which is exactly what people are doing. 

Nobody is arguing that. For the 5th time. Are you doing this on purpose? Stop changing reality. You can say it's pointless to argue semantics in your opinion, fine, but don't claim anything else is happening here. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Kidel.2057

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Kidel.2057 said:

 You can say it's pointless to argue semantics in your opinion, fine, but don't claim anything else is happening here. 

It's not a claim that anything else is happening here. So the ONLY thing that's happening in this thread is that people are ONLY offended that Anet called this a bug? That's not honest.  

[Kidel.2057]

43 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's not a claim that anything else is happening here. So the ONLY thing that's happening in this thread is that people are ONLY offended that Anet called this a bug? That's not honest.  

 

The title of the thread quotes the whole sentence from the notes. 

The first post of this thread is this: 

  

On 2/28/2022 at 5:59 PM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

From the patch notes.

 

What the kitten does this mean? They sayin this is a bug now? LOL

 

And the first page is all people discussing how this could never be called a bug and it's just another nerf. 

 

I'm starting to thing you're not unable to formulate proper reasoning, but you simply can't get the meaning of what you read. 

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

1 hour ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

It's probably a bug tbh, it just hasn't been fixed until now which is why its dumb because people then think it's a feature of the class, Weaver has had a bug since PoF beta and it's still there so maybe they will fix that next year or so

It was not a bug.  Check theses links with posts from Roy Cronacher, former Anet Dev and lead designer of the entire Revenant class. 
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Weapon-Swap-Sigils/page/1#post5305274
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Lets-Chat-Revenant-Masters-of-the-Mist/page/2#post4807746

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Kidel.2057 said:

 

The title of the thread quotes the whole sentence from the notes. 

The first post of this thread is this: 

  

 

And the first page is all people discussing how this could never be called a bug and it's just another nerf.

Yup, I didn't miss any of that. I also read beyond the first page as well so .. 🤷‍♂️

[Scoobaniec.9561]

1 minute ago, Kidel.2057 said:

 

The title of the thread quotes the whole sentence from the notes. 

The first post of this thread is this: 

  

 

And the first page is all people discussing how this could never be called a bug and it's just another nerf. 

 

I'm starting to thing you're not unable to formulate proper reasoning, but you simply can't get the meaning of what you read. 

 

Stop wasting ur time. He does that everywhere and even suggesting nerfing warrior axe offhand to make offhand pistol more attractive to pick up..

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Stop wasting ur time. He does that everywhere and even suggesting nerfing warrior axe offhand to make offhand pistol more attractive to pick up..

Well, that's completely wrong and out of context. 

Still, no one is going to tell me the ONLY thing going on in this thread is an fuss about Anet calling this a bug. There are plenty of people expressing OTHER things here. The irony is that I'm being accused of 'changing reality' from the person that is ignoring all the other comments that AREN'T just complaining Anet is calling this a bug ... but whatever. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Kidel.2057]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, that's completely wrong and out of context ... but not something I wouldn't expect someone to say. 

Still, no one is going to tell me the ONLY thing going on in this thread is an fuss about Anet calling this a bug. There are plenty of people expressing OTHER things here. 

Some people are discussing that the nerf is unfair because it's made only to quickly address the dodge spam of Vindicator, yet it nerfs all the other builds and the flow of Revenant in general, also creating an exception in how Guild Wars 2 works. 

Are you going to simply repeat that ANet has the right to do so? It's true. But we don't have to like it AND we don't buy it was a bug. 

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

Are you going to simply repeat that ANet has the right to do so? It's true. But we don't have to like it AND we don't buy it was a bug. 

OK ... I'm not arguing you have to like it or buy it. My point is clear: People shouldn't be arguing what it's called to complaint they don't like the change. That's absurd. What it's called is irrelevant. 

The change is NOT an exception to how GW2 works. The only exceptions to how the sigil works are on classes that have limitations or no weapon swap. Revenant WASN'T one of those classes. Revenant weapon swaps JUST FINE, so it's been changed to work as intended for Revenant. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[The Boz.2038]

This thread is dangerously close to being locked because of bickering because people keep feeding a troll.

Stop talking to mud.

[Kidel.2057]

22 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... I'm not arguing you have to like it or buy it. My point is clear: People shouldn't be arguing what it's called to complaint they don't like the change. That's absurd. What it's called is irrelevant. 

The change is NOT an exception to how GW2 works. The only exceptions to how the sigil works are on classes that have limitations or no weapon swap. Revenant WASN'T one of those classes. Revenant weapon swaps JUST FINE, so it's been changed to work as intended for Revenant. 

What is called is relevant if it's a deliberate attempt to avoid calling it a nerf (or, to be honest, a quick dirty fix to Energy Sigils on Vindicator, something that should have been obvious from day one to anyone developing this spec) and is, again (7th time?), the main point of this thread. If you think it's irrelevant there is the door. You're not forced to reply. 

And there are multiple classes with weaponswap that ALSO trigger "in swap" sigils with F skills, such as Firebrand, Necromancer and Spectre. I don't know why you're only thinking about Elementalist and Engineer when ALL classes worked like Revenant did, and it was intended by the dev making Revenant to leave it like that and see (and it has been ok for like 6 years, until Vindicator came with dodgespam, which is still a thing in pve). 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Kidel.2057
typo

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

What is called is relevant if it's a deliberate attempt to avoid calling it a nerf

 

No, because it doesn't matter what it's called. The result is the same. Call it whatever ... the intent is what is important. If Anet wanted to hide something, they just wouldn't have told us they were changing it. 

I don't care what other classes do ... obviously Anet INTENDS to have these triggers work different for different classes because of their different functions and restrictions. That's NOT a reason to prevent Anet from removing swap on legend triggers for these sigils on Revenant. 

I mean, I don't get the argument here. That peopel think Anet SHOULDN'T have removed it? That people think calling it a bug is dishonest? OK ... but those aren't reasons for Anet to not change the game how they intend for it to work. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952