6 months of feedback, not a single change to animations.

[Zenith.7301]

The Greatsword #2 still looks the same as the autoattack chain #1, virtually nothing about the greatsword lack of unique animations addressed.

 

Half assed expansion pack. Shame on your development practices.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

2 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

The Greatsword #2 still looks the same as the autoattack chain #1, virtually nothing about the greatsword lack of unique animations addressed.

 

Half assed expansion pack. Shame on your development practices.

As far as I can tell they also didn't change anything in terms of numbers/functionality from Beta 4 til now either....  What a joke

[Puck.3697]

because their great? and didnt need changing.

Being "unique" or "unseen" isnt important. a Greatsword is a Greatsword, Wielded by a Reaper, Wielded by a Vindicator or by a Guardian ur going to swing in the same fashion. you dont go into combat with a sword in Real life and intentionally Swing unlike anyone else to try be "unique" in combat because the results will be u wield it incorrectly and get urself killed in combat.

Vindicator is a Awesome Looking specc, the animations couldnt be better and they dont need "improvement".

8 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

As far as I can tell they also didn't change anything in terms of numbers/functionality from Beta 4 til now either....  What a joke

 

this however is kind of a larger issue however. it saw improvement since Beta 4, but sadly, the fact conditional Damage is just by default Better then power currently just puts a Axe in the specc given it isnt any useful boon provider and the healing isnt great.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Scoobaniec.9561]

6 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

because their great? and didnt need changing.

 

 

Ok? Will you waste dodge on my autoattack or gs2? How you gonna tell what im casting?

[Puck.3697]

6 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Ok? Will you waste dodge on my autoattack or gs2? How you gonna tell what im casting?

Yeah... because This is the largest point of "wasting dodges that eixst" lets ignore the Tons of abilities that basically have Litterally no animation and focus onto this.

i dunno why we've shifted from Animations to counterplay however, Neither of these abilities do enough damage to realistically require a 100% Dodge requirement. ontop of this, its far more likely ur going to want to dodge GS5 above either of these abilities realistically.

this isnt a real problem. Defintly not compared to several abilities currently existing.

however

6 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

How you gonna tell what im casting?

GS2 strikes from Right. Auto attack chain 2 Strikes from the left

Given their both pretty slow in cast, I'd say this is enough of a telling for the payoff of landing the ability.

GS Auto attack 1 is Swing 1 handerly, GS2 is Swing with 2.

Third swing has a Jump animation.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

19 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

this however is kind of a larger issue however. it saw improvement since Beta 4, but sadly, the fact conditional Damage is just by default Better then power currently just puts a Axe in the specc given it isnt any useful boon provider and the healing isnt great.

 

Condi got nerfed fairly hard, so there'll be a genuine choice between the two now.  Condi's looking like it's going back to Invocation rotation (which has heavy ramp up time compared to Devastation) and only going to be around 37-38k.  So we'll actually have a choice between power/condi now depending on short/long encounter.  Power Ren is also dead now compared to Vindi with the Battle Scars nerf. 

I'm mostly just frustrated with the lack of other changes and fine tuning.  Damage of Vindi still largely dependent on hitbox size.  No CC added.  Urn still questionable. Some of the Archemorous damage skills not overly worth using. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Puck.3697]

4 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Condi got nerfed fairly hard, so there'll be a genuine choice between the two now.  Condi's looking like it's going back to Invocation rotation (which has heavy ramp up time compared to Devastation) and only going to be around 37-38k.  So we'll actually have a choice between power/condi now depending on short/long encounter.  Power Ren is also dead now compared to Vindi with the Battle Scars nerf. 

I'm mostly just frustrated with the lack of other changes and fine tuning.  Damage of Vindi still largely dependent on hitbox size.  No CC added.  Urn still questionable. 

well yeah, issues rises the moment we bring up Breakbars. Condi Renegades burst is crazy high. but yeah Renegade defintly got brought downwards. depends how its going to be doing overall. but we wont see the full picture til summer.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Kidel.2057]

they didn't change a single thing or fix a single bug since the second Vindicator beta. They just nerfed core rev, heavily. 

[otto.5684]

12 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

they didn't change a single thing or fix a single bug since the second Vindicator beta. They just nerfed core rev, heavily. 

This is the the theme across the board. Most of the new elites have very limited to no changes since 2nd beta.

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

because their great? and didnt need changing.

Being "unique" or "unseen" isnt important. a Greatsword is a Greatsword, Wielded by a Reaper, Wielded by a Vindicator or by a Guardian ur going to swing in the same fashion. you dont go into combat with a sword in Real life and intentionally Swing unlike anyone else to try be "unique" in combat because the results will be u wield it incorrectly and get urself killed in combat.

  Black Desert Online and Last Ark do use different animation for most of their classes, weapons and specs, even if some of the wepons share a similar nature (longswords, katanas, sabers...). They look awesome and in combat every one of those classes look and feel distinctive.

   On the other hand, Eder Scrolls Online and New Word do use the same animations for each kind of weapon; the classes suffer for this: all looking the same while wielding the same weapon with the same skills. The combat feels boring and truly terrible in those games.

   Up to EoD GW2 was clearly in the first group: some autoattacks and a few skills had similar animations, but most of them and the animations were truly unique. EoD changes that streaks becoming a truly "budget expansion" in terms of polish...  But we paid the same!

[Puck.3697]

23 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

Black Desert Online and Last Ark do use different animation for most of their classes, weapons and specs, even if some of the wepons share a similar nature (longswords, katanas, sabers...). They look awesome and in combat every one of those classes look and feel distinctive.

their abilities are also hugely exaggerated and over the top at the price of delievering this. Something Anime games can get away with, but not a Western MMORPG.

u cant compare Easterna dn Western MMORPGs, their developed around different concepts and generally more Anime based games are extremely exaggerated in Animations which is why its so easy to create them to being individualistic. this isnt a design i would like in gw2 though. its Exaggerated it Looks Rly stupid and WAAAY over the top.

25 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 On the other hand, Eder Scrolls Online and New Word do use the same animations for each kind of weapon; the classes suffer for this: all looking the same while wielding the same weapon with the same skills. The combat feels boring and truly terrible in those games.

yeah EoD is no where near even as Restrictive as these 2 games. their animations are incredibly basic and GW2 even in EoDs case is a Major step up to this.

25 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

Up to EoD GW2 was clearly in the first group: some autoattacks and a few skills had similar animations, but most of them and the animations were truly unique. EoD changes that streaks becoming a truly "budget expansion" in terms of polish...  But we paid the same!

Right onto the funny part.

eeeeeh i wouldnt really say this. i think theres more reusing of animations then this lets on to admit, the issue is how Elite speccs work, because we continously add more and more to the same specializations surrounding the same themes the Idea pools run thin.

there are Pros and Cons to the elite system realistically.

to ur comments on "Budget expansion". i disagree, the gameplay feels FAR more refined, the Change in how they do story and Improvements are a Major boost above what we got in PoF Espically. the new art styles of cinematics and these videos is again a Major increase and the Story itself is ALOT Better.

this expansion actually brings up ur choices u make through the story and the actual story itself changes to some degree aswel las Dialogue based on what u choose to do.

EoD is a Major climb upwards from PoF, focusing more on the game and less then extreme Power creep to appease players who want the game to get easier.

as for the price.

yeah. £25 lol ur aware this is Under half the price of a Triple A MMORPG Cost right?.. its pretty normal to spend £50 minimum ona Expansion / MMORPG Core game. GW2 is priced as a Budget MMORPG Entirely even at full price, the game has 0 Sub fee and Still is cheaper o nthe one time price then Sub based games

FFXIV is £40

WoW is £40

even after both their games cutting the box price of their Expansions in trade for Bundle versions (collector and Ultimate) And even then both these games cost £100 for their Ultimate Unlike the £75 Ultimate addition.

Im sorry. but theres nothing budget about EoD.

DirectX Improvements.

Story Improvements.

Change of Direction.

Fully voiced Story + NPCS.

choices Meaning more then prior

Changes to the Art style.

theres Nothing budget about it, barring ur dislike of Animations. its fair to dislike something. but it seems a major exaggeration and unfair comparisons between genres realistically.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Yeah... because This is the largest point of "wasting dodges that eixst" lets ignore the Tons of abilities that basically have Litterally no animation and focus onto this.

i dunno why we've shifted from Animations to counterplay however, Neither of these abilities do enough damage to realistically require a 100% Dodge requirement. ontop of this, its far more likely ur going to want to dodge GS5 above either of these abilities realistically.

this isnt a real problem. Defintly not compared to several abilities currently existing.

however

GS2 strikes from Right. Auto attack chain 2 Strikes from the left

Given their both pretty slow in cast, I'd say this is enough of a telling for the payoff of landing the ability.

GS Auto attack 1 is Swing 1 handerly, GS2 is Swing with 2.

Third swing has a Jump animation.

 

 

Idk but last time i remember using it on charr there wasnt any swing from other side. Both auto and 2 looked exactly the same to me. Besides its the second strongest hitting skill in gs compareable to a maul. Save this comment for when a nerfbat hit to gs2 cuz its easier to enrf than give it a proper animation like maul.

 

Overall i dont really get any rev vibes from the gs anyway when it comes to animations

[Puck.3697]

7 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Idk but last time i remember using it on charr there wasnt any swing from other side. Both auto and 2 looked exactly the same to me. Besides its the second strongest hitting skill in gs compareable to a maul. Save this comment for when a nerfbat hit to gs2 cuz its easier to enrf than give it a proper animation like maul.

 

Overall i dont really get any rev vibes from the gs anyway when it comes to animations

None of the other Abilities with a lack of Telegraphing has been nerfed. so i realistically disagree with this. Vindicator isnt Overpowered.

Maul also has Access to instant resets for Burst and on a Shorter CD all together, realistically, I think maul is ahead of this ability by ALOT More then u try to show here.

10 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

EoD is rushed trash garbage to save finances. Im not even sure how 360 spin is related to opening some again invisible holes from mist.

and again i would heavily disagree

Increasing the game to DirectX11, Severe improvements to story telling. Upgrades to its graphics + Cinematics + Adding another layer of elites + over 300 Customizations of legendary weapons + Improvments to the video Art assosisated with the expansion, to then go back and Add fishing to every single Map and More.

Doesnt scream "Saving Finances".

and as already admitted.

These new Elites have Unique Animation based on your chosen Race also, which means these abiltiies have had to be Singularly Made for each race individually.

EoD likely costed more then both HoT and PoF Realistically, regardless if u want to aknowledge that or not. Upgrading a Entire game to DirectX11 by itself is a MASSIVE investment.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Buran.3796]

7 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

u cant compare Easterna dn Western MMORPGs, their developed around different concepts and generally more Anime based games are extremely exaggerated in Animations which is why its so easy to create them to being individualistic. this isnt a design i would like in gw2 though. its Exaggerated it Looks Rly stupid and WAAAY over the top.

  I would would you to take a look at For Honor, Diablo III, Path of Exile or Mortal Kombat games  to check the validity of that reasoning in those "eastern games". Oh, but they aren't MMOs, you got me!

   Ok, then let's compare Vindicator weapon animations with  the weapon animations of another class from  another western MMO: the Bladesworn. Now check again the internal coherence of your argument. Bladesworn. Vindicator. Bladesworn. Vindicator. One has flashy and unique animations which look over the top. The other has recicled animations from previous classes with toned down fx (albeit I must admit that I love the sounds). Same can be said with the Firebrand or Mirage skills.

   "Animations aren't important" Oh, for sure there are things that are more important, which isn't what is being discused in this thread. I think that Vidicator has poor lore integration and is badly designed in terms of visuals and mechanics. They should have gone with the Balthazar path, but since it was discarded, and they won't give use floating greatsword animations, ANet should try at least to not make look that you're invoking the powers of a ranger and a reaper from the mist.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

13 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

None of the other Abilities with a lack of Telegraphing has been nerfed. so i realistically disagree with this. Vindicator isnt Overpowered.

Maul also has Access to instant resets for Burst and on a Shorter CD all together, realistically, I think maul is ahead of this ability by ALOT More then u try to show here.

and again i would heavily disagree

Increasing the game to DirectX11, Severe improvements to story telling. Upgrades to its graphics + Cinematics + Adding another layer of elites + over 300 Customizations of legendary weapons + Improvments to the video Art assosisated with the expansion, to then go back and Add fishing to every single Map and More.

Doesnt scream "Saving Finances".

and as already admitted.

These new Elites have Unique Animation based on your chosen Race also, which means these abiltiies have had to be Singularly Made for each race individually.

EoD likely costed more then both HoT and PoF Realistically, regardless if u want to aknowledge that or not. Upgrading a Entire game to DirectX11 by itself is a MASSIVE investment.

 

This is nerfnant. Remember what happened to sword 4? Cuz i do. Even sigil proc on legend was deleted cuz it was a "bug". Gs5 without a doubt gonna get a nerfbat and so will gs2

 

Also counter point to rest. DX11 in 2022 is a literally meme. Its a feature that should have been added few years ago, they are behind by literally everyone else standards especially for "AAA" game which start to feel more indie.

The story is trash, i still remember what a joke the uhm saga/season 5/whatever was especially the ending - literally lol. What improved here again? Somehow humans in Cantha became the most smarties in the world surpassing asuras and charrs at once in no time? Sounds like great storytelling to me.

 

New legendary weapons have one model+recolors. How is it over 300+ customizations?

https://preview.redd.it/gbrm031yxd381.png?auto=webp&s=ae67badbca18746fadfeb428a5823e95bc14d99f

 

Might as well give it a dye ability and call it a day. I also honestly dont think there are many ppl who enjoy new specs. Not just rev but in general they feel like one big poop

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  I would would you to take a look at For Honor, Diablo III, Path of Exile or Mortal Kombat games  to check the validity of that reasoning in those "eastern games". Oh, but they aren't MMOs, you got me!

I havent played Mortal kombat

Diablo 3 Has like 6 classes in it with no alterations, Path of Exile is Kinda the same in this regard.

I mean lets Look at the facts here, the Reason the games Lowering in quantity of unique animations is because of Elite additions rather then Proffession additions. the fact that everytime round they're in this position of creating 5 x 9 Unique abilities at minimum not including the fact things like Elementalist require uptoo 25 New animations.

this is like saying "Well FFXIV has all unique animations" Ofcourse they do. they physically bind the weapon to that specific Proffession. with no choice or alteration so its REALLY easy to ensure nothing overlaps. GW2s Model prevents it having this which is my argument.

This is a Flaw created by the Elite specialization System. Not because of the actual game itself. your asking for too much when ur wanting over 100 Unique Animations made every Expansion, considering most MMORPGS dont expand its Animation pools AT ALL, because they develope 1 new Class per 4 years... Or just tie a entire weapon to one specific class.

6 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 Ok, then let's compare Vindicator weapon animations with  the weapon animations of another class from  another western MMO: the Bladesworn. Now check again the internal coherence of your argument. Bladesworn. Vindicator. Bladesworn. Vindicator. One has flashy and unique animations which look over the top. The other has recicled animations from previous classes with toned down fx (albeit I must admit that I love the sounds). Same can be said with the Firebrand or Mirage skills.

the Gunsaber is a unique weapon which no other proffession has Access to.

this is like saying "lets compare it to holoforge"

its far Easier to create Unqiue animations for a Weapon / Mechanic that Doesnt exist in the game Priorly. then it is for a Weapon that already has over 100 Animations in the game already.

7 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 "Animations aren't important" Oh, for sure there are things that are more important, which isn't what is being discused in this thread. I think that Vidicator has poor lore integration and is badly designed in terms of visuals and mechanics. They should have gone with the Balthazar path, but since it was discarded, and they won't give use floating greatsword animations, ANet should try at least to not make look that you're invoking the powers of a ranger and a reaper from the mist.

i never said Animations arent important.

I stated i like Vindicators animations, and the overlapping of Effects are a cause of the Elite system and arent avoidable with how elites work.

the Elite system is basically Spreading every weapon in the game with every proffession in the game continously at the same time as doing the same for every other proffession

their Expansions consist of releasing 9 different specs getting a Weapon already usuable by over half the other options already to then create Another kit for that Proffession, at fundamental bases

Every Proffession gets uptoo 5 New Abilities + 4 New Utilities + 1 Elite, Elementalist gets uptoo 20 New abilities 4 new Utilities and 1 Elite skill to stack ontop of this, New Mechanics Requirign new Animations, and they have to redo ALL these animations across 5 Different Races.

the reason NO OTHER MMORPG does this. is because the exact reasoning of this thread. Preventing overlap becomes INSANELY hard, because ur Developing Another Skin over a Weapon another proffession uses effectively thats what is going on here. which means unless u excessively alter the way the weapons used (I.E, Mesmers Greatsword) it becomes Increasingly more difficult every wave of elites to make every ability unique.

Elites have Pros and Cons.

Adding new Proffessions Instead of Elites have both Pros and Cons.

BDO, WoW, FFXIV etc etc use the traditional Methods of applying a New class/Proffession into the game and the way it gains "uniqueness" is because its Theme Is Exclusively bound to One Option and No other option, (although the overlap in WoW is tbh insane for the factor they dont suffer half the problems)

GW2 adds Elite speccs, thus gives Multiple new choices to everyone rather then 1 additional choice but at the same time is spreading the exact same weapons continously to every single Proffession.

[Puck.3697]

6 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

This is nerfnant. Remember what happened to sword 4? Cuz i do. Even sigil proc on legend was deleted cuz it was a "bug". Gs5 without a doubt gonna get a nerfbat and so will gs2

considering Vindicator is capable of 1 shotting, its semi-likely yes. but not ebcause of shared animations.

Tbh Revenant as a whole over-performed in PvP, even if it wasnt a "bug" it should have been removed either way it was a Serious power creep that was blatently ignored at revs Laucnh. the reason Sigil procced on Legends was because Orginally rev was not gonna have Weapon swap, they just didnt bother dealing with this when bringing weapon swap to the proffession.

8 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

New legendary weapons have one model+recolors. How is it over 300+ customizations?

New Colour / Effects are still a Form of Customization and Its longer to do then u give credit for.

 

9 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

ight as well give it a dye ability and call it a day. I also honestly dont think there are many ppl who enjoy new specs. Not just rev but in general they feel like one big poop

I think thats a Large pressumption which we lack Evidence to realistically say.

And is likely actually untrue realistically, Forums will always hold the population who dont like something, thats Statistically accurate, players who like what they've been handed wont come onto a forum at all to number ontop of this only about 1% of the games Population will use the forums at all.

however.. i'd of defintly liked the weapon Dye ability more then Legendaries getting colour customization based on the fact it'd affect a larger amount of weapons.. and be a Positive for a Larger amount of the community as the Amount of people who'll honestly go through the grind to unlock all these customizations are by far a Minority.

[Shao.7236]

Re-using animations is good for things that are more or less similar for the sake of the player sanity to react but also production time. In my experience most of the default animations are already to such degree of quality that it's hard to not justify re-using them and comparatively to other games they are much much better. The people who worked behind those initially at the release of the game are extremely talented and I know from experience that making new animations is not something you just come up with, it takes time and over the course of creating more animations artists do find ways to make more efficiently if they have to and that can take a hit on quality the more they have to do.

 

We do have new animations for skills and new mechanics that do require them, it's not bad practice, lazy somewhat but if they fit they work. Much of the same can be said for gameplay, however the team is definitely out of touch with their profession balance or innovations, have been for years now. It saddens me, used to have a burning passion for playing the game and they keep changing things in the most unnecessary ways.

[zallesz.1650]

There is no problem with reusing older animations. I love GS5 (from reaper GS2), have no problem with GS4 (ranger gs4), or even GS3. My only BIG problem is that autoattack and GS2 have the exact same animation, when GS2 is supposed to be your "fire away heavy hitter skill". And it's the SAME as autoattack. 

 

Can you think of ANY spec that has 2 skills out of their 5 weapon skills that look EXACTLY the same? 

[Blazinflames.8415]

The Vindicator actually has 4 skills out of their 5 weapon skills that look EXACTLY THE SAME!!! (The second part of GS4 also shares THE EXACT same animation as the second skill of autoattack!!!!)

 

I really don't get how people are even defending ANET on this. Like you said I have ZERO problems with reused animations but having 4 skills that share the same animations on a weapon with 5 skills is unacceptable. It just screams laziness to me!!! 

 

[Zaret.1450]

17 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

The Greatsword #2 still looks the same as the autoattack chain #1, virtually nothing about the greatsword lack of unique animations addressed.

 

Half assed expansion pack. Shame on your development practices.

if that was the worse thing i wouldnt mind but... vindi overall lacks a lot still in terms of utility and power, like more elite specs, also did youbsee what happened with the kirin? id understand a minor bug that sometimes happens but a hp in the first map being bugged in almost every instance? and only working in mew instances for later on bugging after being completed once, like, yeah i guess theyll solve this problems but dunno, i wouldnt have minded if they said, hey were having troubles, could you wait a bit till we get new elites on par with the pld ones and make sure there arent significant bugs? are there even testers because i cant understand how did they launch kirin like this

[Drlightningbolt.1754]

This entire spec is half assed why are you suprised