Bring the player, not the profession. That’s our goal. - Really ? Untamed is DEAD CLASS

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Untamed will have a role in end game PvE - that of the raid tank. He has all the tools for it save one - the missing alac/quickness from upcoming spirit rework. Once that's done he'll kick @ss and chew bubble gum.

Edited March 7, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Untamed will have a role in end game PvE - that of the raid tank. He has all the tools for it save one - the missing alac/quickness from upcoming spirit rework. Once that's done he'll kick @ss and chew bubble gum.

Pretty sure heal mechanist fits the bill better, especially with alacrity output on mace.

As in last beta, I think Untamed needs more hard CC to be relevant in PVE and with some damage on hammer. Right now it is outclassed by renegade most likely.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Nephalem.8921]

On 3/7/2022 at 3:25 AM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Untamed will have a role in end game PvE - that of the raid tank. He has all the tools for it save one - the missing alac/quickness from upcoming spirit rework. Once that's done he'll kick @ss and chew bubble gum.

Do you know that most bosses require no survival capabilities at all for the tank? you always take the one who loses the least. 

Untamed has no place in instanced pve. no healing, boons nor dps. it still needs to do dmg as alac/quick bot which slb can do so much better. its useless in wvw zergs and not even that great in spvp. spam skills fast is their whole identity. same for willbender. both have a cd reduction trait that has to carry the whole spec. in willbenders case it fixes the dps. still not a great class mechanic. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Lazze.9870]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:17 PM, Teratus.2859 said:

Basically going all in on the theme of the Untamed being a Beastmaster that uses Nature Magic.

No idea how effective it will actually be though, will have to make it and test it first.

Do you like suffering?

[Lazze.9870]

On 3/4/2022 at 4:29 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

You just have to see how the best ranger specialization is the one that removed the pet in exchange for stats and more abilities. Ranger weapon kits and utility skills are amazing but the pet system is broken and underperforming. The only place where I saw it performing very good is in PvP, where they will pressure as much as they can and trigger traps, and yet they are still broken there.

I'm just gonna quote myself from a different thread:

"I hate that the common notion is that soulbeast "removed" the pet, so untamed had to "embrace" it. Soulbeast never removed anything. Soulbeast is literally salvaging the entire pet mechanic in this game. It makes it useable, and not just through being permamerged, but also through constant merging and unmerging as well. It is the most effective use of the pet we've ever had in all three game modes. It's the only spec that has ever been close to being useable at the highest level in all three game modes.

If Anet really wanted to make Untamed a good WvW spec, they would have gone the full way and given us a mechanic with no reliance on AI. They can keep the theme and whatnot, but the physical AI can't exist in an effective zerg build."

---

Shame Untamed didn't remove it properly. We'll see what Anet is planning. The spec is fine in PvP, but it's not gonna break into WvW any harder than Soulbeast already did, and it's obviously not doing much for endgame PvE either. My bet is that Anet is gonna slap some PvE only damage on it until it is close enough and call it a day, catering to that crowd as per usual.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Teratus.2859]

12 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Do you like suffering?

Maybe XD

I like experimenting and trying different things.
That's usually how I end up finding the most fun builds to play.

Anyhow I made a quick mockup build of what I have in mind.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEcEWoMDmKrlxycxU7SNaPiwA-zRRYwR3eOsyIiUoiKwyB-e

Pets will be White Tiger and Siege Turtle (not available in the editor) They grant Aegis and Protection with their F2's, plus Tiger can teleport which is fun.

Spirited Arrival and Windborne Notes can be changed depending on solo or group play.
Natures Shield and Blinding Outburst can also be changed based on solo or group play.

For the record the shared build is the solo variant.

[wolfyrik.2017]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:11 AM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Easy gents, easy.
Let's remember one "small" detail - upcoming spirit rework.

Both rangers and warriors have slated reworks to their core support kits, and both are only professions that have no team alac or quickness. It looks grim, but only for now.

Once that's fixed we'll have a banger of e-spec on our hands - boon rips, quickness or alac, tough as nails - there will be reasons to bring untamed into a group.

Except from the fact that untamed is still inferior because you can't remove the pet when you need such as WvW zergs, it still has all the same AI problems, still has every pet using the same 3 skills, needs the pet to be micromanaged to bring it up to par with the pets on core and soulbeast, still has an offensive special effect. Oh and the Spirit changes will be available to and enhance the already superior core, druid and soulbeast. Infact druid and soulbeast will probably benefit all the more from the changes than Unplayed will, since they already work really well with the existing spirits.

 

Yeah apart from all that, it'll be just swell.

[GhandiBot.6257]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:46 AM, Cytoplasma.8216 said:

Hello dear players
I am asking you for help. The ANet in one of the last posts assured us players that each new class will have access to different roles, while the new ranger class DOES NOT HAVE DMG at all.

I tried to play both power, condi and hybrid for a few days. The damage is so low that currently nobody wants to see me in raids or fractals.

The only new support I can see is AEGIS, which has a CD of 30 sec - it is completely useless.

Many traits don't work on new pets that are just weak.

A question for you players, is it just me that this class requires big changes?

Or maybe I can't play and am doing something wrong?

At the moment, unfortunately, despite the ANet assurances, I do not feel needed by the group in any way - neither as a support nor as a DPS

Untamed is perfectly fine and has good damage modifiers. 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

3 hours ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

Except from the fact that untamed is still inferior because you can't remove the pet when you need such as WvW zergs, it still has all the same AI problems, still has every pet using the same 3 skills, needs the pet to be micromanaged to bring it up to par with the pets on core and soulbeast, still has an offensive special effect. Oh and the Spirit changes will be available to and enhance the already superior core, druid and soulbeast. Infact druid and soulbeast will probably benefit all the more from the changes than Unplayed will, since they already work really well with the existing spirits.

 

Yeah apart from all that, it'll be just swell.

I was talking about PvE not WvW.

On majority of  rest i disagree. Pet micromagement is good. I want my wolf to use brutal charge when I call for it, not when it thinks is right. Having full control over every pet skill outside auto attack is great from my perspective. And unleash skills let me insta teleport it on top of my enemy, so i'm a happy camper here.

Spirit rework won't be what you think. If it was we'd have total mess on our hands as you yourself well outlined. Broken dps spec (sb) that could outsupport the support (druid).

Instead the good stuff will be gated behind spirit actives and their cooldowns. The 3 other specs will be getting increase in support tool variety for sure, but raw supportive power of these spirits won't be that high. For druids that's ok, as there's little else he'll be putting on his utility bar anyway and boonshare is boonshare. Soulbeast can get some extra value with Moa stance but only to an extent - the free boon duration it grants is still subject to 100% bonus boon duration cap.

Untamed however has ability to reduce his active cooldowns by a LOT. That will make him the best user of spirits bar none, letting him go absolutely wild with their actives. And making it balanced and fair as well - other e-specs get more tools to support, he has less but makes up in raw power he gets from them.
 

[Nephalem.8921]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:31 PM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

I was talking about PvE not WvW.

On majority of  rest i disagree. Pet micromagement is good. I want my wolf to use brutal charge when I call for it, not when it thinks is right. Having full control over every pet skill outside auto attack is great from my perspective. And unleash skills let me insta teleport it on top of my enemy, so i'm a happy camper here.

Spirit rework won't be what you think. If it was we'd have total mess on our hands as you yourself well outlined. Broken dps spec (sb) that could outsupport the support (druid).

Instead the good stuff will be gated behind spirit actives and their cooldowns. The 3 other specs will be getting increase in support tool variety for sure, but raw supportive power of these spirits won't be that high. For druids that's ok, as there's little else he'll be putting on his utility bar anyway and boonshare is boonshare. Soulbeast can get some extra value with Moa stance but only to an extent - the free boon duration it grants is still subject to 100% bonus boon duration cap.

Untamed however has ability to reduce his active cooldowns by a LOT. That will make him the best user of spirits bar none, letting him go absolutely wild with their actives. And making it balanced and fair as well - other e-specs get more tools to support, he has less but makes up in raw power he gets from them.
 

Untamed needs hard dps buffs first then. most hybrid boonbots offer more dps than a full dps untamed. one that replaces utilities would be far lower.

[Desh.7028]

Bring the player, not the profession. That’s our goal. We decided all boons to be 5 man only so now making comps is really tight and bring the class is more important than ever.

 

Not a Ranger problem actually. For every 5 players 3 slots are predetermined and DPS optimally bring either really nuttty damage or some additional rare boons (like stab or unique buffs) or iron out weaknesses of the first 3 classes which always are support, alac and quick.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 3/10/2022 at 2:27 AM, Desh.7028 said:

Bring the player, not the profession. That’s our goal. We decided all boons to be 5 man only so now making comps is really tight and bring the class is more important than ever.

 

Not a Ranger problem actually. For every 5 players 3 slots are predetermined and DPS optimally bring either really nuttty damage or some additional rare boons (like stab or unique buffs) or iron out weaknesses of the first 3 classes which always are support, alac and quick.

What is suport if its neither alac nor quick? A pure healer? now this is a slot waste. Druid is bad and so are tempest and herald.

[Desh.7028]

2 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

What is suport if its neither alac nor quick? A pure healer? now this is a slot waste. Druid is bad and so are tempest and herald.

 

While hFB with quick and heal Mech with alac exist and change the formula, generally for most builds alac and quick is attached to specs that are basicly DPS specs in DPS gear.

Getting downed or even dying is really bad for DPS and some mechanics so unless there is a really brutal enrage timer you'll need to explain why going full glass cannon on the composition is an actual upside. "Druid is bad" and not naming heal Scourge is a little funny and I don't even know what this "Herald" is you speak of.

I'm not saying full boom sweaty comps aren't possible or a thing but it's neither the standard and I imagine not what Anet imagined for the post boon nerf meta.

[Nephalem.8921]

28 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

While hFB with quick and heal Mech with alac exist and change the formula, generally for most builds alac and quick is attached to specs that are basicly DPS specs in DPS gear.

Getting downed or even dying is really bad for DPS and some mechanics so unless there is a really brutal enrage timer you'll need to explain why going full glass cannon on the composition is an actual upside. "Druid is bad" and not naming heal Scourge is a little funny and I don't even know what this "Herald" is you speak of.

I'm not saying full boom sweaty comps aren't possible or a thing but it's neither the standard and I imagine not what Anet imagined for the post boon nerf meta.

Healmechanist outheals druid hard. Healscourge is good for one thing and that is cheesing encounters with mass revives. It shouldnt be the standard in every group. Druid had 10target might. without that there is no reason to take one anymore but pugs take eternities to adapt and always lack a year behind compositions.

Get rid of druid and you have more dps slots again. still no place for untamed though.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

On the bright side, as far as I know, core ranger is keeping spotter available for all specs which might very well become a stapple when banners change hit live (Yeah, the loss of banner of discipline bonus is gonna be hard to stomach). Thought I doubt spirits are going to make ranger's boon sharing extremly popular due to how spirits work.

 

I don't think Untamed in it's current state is going to be a meta tank in PvE (new spirits or not), it's only advantage over the other ranger's specs on this role are boon conversion and projectile hate and neither of those will make him especially competitive in this tank role.

Druid might still be used in PvE but, objectively, the spirit rework might spell it's doom. On another hand Soulbeast is the one that I expect to be competitive in PvE (mainly as a dps thought and primarily taken for Spotter).

 

[Substance E.4852]

On 3/8/2022 at 12:31 PM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Untamed however has ability to reduce his active cooldowns by a LOT. That will make him the best user of spirits bar none, letting him go absolutely wild with their actives.

We have no idea what the "spirit and banner rework" will entail other than Anet's implication that they intend to phase out unique buffs for baseline boons to level the support playing field

The only one that does that is frost spirit and given what happened to Grace of the Land, I wouldn't hold your breath for spamable quickness/alacrity

Even their attempt to give us boonrip after 8+ years was a dysfunctional flop

Ask for untamed fixes now, not after the spirit rework drops because you'll be waiting another 6+ months

 

[Desh.7028]

5 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Healscourge is good for one thing and that is cheesing encounters with mass revives.

 

Young one, barrier type effects are either always busted or tuned in a way that makes it so they're just a side note. Here they're more in the busted category.

I literally brought Mech and hFB into the conversation, what the hell?

 

5 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Get rid of druid and you have more dps slots again.

 

Who's keeping the healthbars nice and red then? Assuming we're doing something that actually has teeth or an average group of average players where not everything is dodged flawlessly. As I said, make your comp as sweaty as you want but I doubt that's the direction that Anet envisions for the playerbase as a whole.

 

5 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

pugs take eternities to adapt and always lack a year behind compositions

 

I get the rising suspicion discussion is pointless here. Your one point of view that entails literally nothing but one owns heal skill is obviously the true meta that the plebs just don't know about.

[Bunny.9834]

They need to cut down the cast times on hammer and give those skills bigger AoE radius to make it semi-valuable in ALL game modes. 

Strike damage melee weapons in this game is so easy to counter vs condi damage that mostly comes in AoE AND range. 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

1 hour ago, Substance E.4852 said:

We have no idea what the "spirit and banner rework" will entail other than Anet's implication that they intend to phase out unique buffs for baseline boons to level the support playing field

The only one that does that is frost spirit and given what happened to Grace of the Land, I wouldn't hold your breath for spamable quickness/alacrity

Even their attempt to give us boonrip after 8+ years was a dysfunctional flop

Ask for untamed fixes now, not after the spirit rework drops because you'll be waiting another 6+ months

 

On the contrary, we have quite the idea of what it'll be. We don't know "how", but we most certainly know "what" because a-net must move within very tight constraints to make it work.

1. It'll be team alac/quickness and on spirits.

2. It'll be gated with cooldown. Whatever core gets, elites get and therefore it must be kept in check to not make them busted.

3. Soulbeast (nr one spec to be broken if sprits get OP) has Moa stance. So once again - gating by cooldown, something SB cannot bypass will the required.

4. Untamed is the only ranger spec that can deal away with cooldowns, and not breaking balance while at it.