Are strike missions going to succeed where raid failed?

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

4 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

No, i am talking about second part of LFG.

I still fail to see the problem, you mess up you get kicked. You expect people to be perfectly fine with someone wasting like 10 minutes? Don't like it, don't join. Besides, you need to do something EXTREMELY wrong to die before the Sniper/Mech phase.

[Bakeneko.5826]

4 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I still fail to see the problem, you mess up you get kicked. You expect people to be perfectly fine with someone wasting like 10 minutes? Don't like it, don't join. Besides, you need to do something EXTREMELY wrong to die before the Sniper/Mech phase.

Thank you illustrating my point, that community learnt nothing from why raids failed.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Just now, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Thank you illustrating my point, that community learnt nothing from why raids failed.

Everyone can complain so much about requirements in squads like every squad should cater to them. You see a squad that has requirements you don't meet or don't like it's not for you, don't join it.
You are not entitled to anyone's time and you don't get to tell anyone how to play. This sounds familiar, right? This can be said by both sides.

As I said, if you die before the Sniper/Mech phase you are doing something extremely wrong and you're better off joining/making a squad for practicing. Expecting a squad to accept anyone despite them not meeting THEIR requirements is just as toxic as you claim that requirement to be.

Stop complaining about LFG requirements, don't like it? Make one yourself and you'll soon see why some exist.

[Krzysztof.5973]

3 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

You mean leave guild, who organises training, for guild who is known for toxic players, toxic behaviour and, worst of all, has teapot in it?

 

And community learnt nothing from why raids are dead: https://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZ

Have you earned KO CM title? Any of Strike CM titles? Have you actually successfully done the content on "high" level to throw accusations around? All the blame lies on raiders for god forbid, asking for experience in their own squads I guess... 😴

[Astralporing.1957]

On 6/1/2022 at 3:50 AM, Artemis.8034 said:

Lots of people want to raid and try raids, but they are scared off, there is this idea that gets pushed around that raiding it toxic and not worth the time.

There's this idea that gets pushed around that players are scared of raids because they haven't seen them and know nothing about them, and once they will learn more, their outlook would surely change. That idea is for the most part false. Sure, there might be some new players that indeed are like that, but for the most part players that avoid raids do that because they do know enough about that content, and have some real (and not imaginary) reasons for why this is not a content for them.

[Bakeneko.5826]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:11 PM, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Have you earned KO CM title? Any of Strike CM titles? Have you actually successfully done the content on "high" level to throw accusations around? All the blame lies on raiders for god forbid, asking for experience in their own squads I guess... 😴

Thank you for being another specimen

[Kozumi.5816]

On 6/2/2022 at 8:29 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

The efforts that these trainers and their guilds are going through

Effort to run things like the military for personal ego gains, yeah.

[Bakeneko.5826]

4 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Effort to run things like the military for personal ego gains, yeah.

Are you sure, you are not talking about high-ed speed run guild or something? Training guilds are chill-ish, with timetables only for runs, for organisational purposes.

[Juan.6124]

Strike cms have worse rewards than raids and therefore will fail. Doesn't help that Kaineng Overlook cm is harder than any raid encounter and all you get is 1 gold. Good players got their achievements and won't ever come back.

I got my KO cm title with a good pug group and have joined a few groups to help them out but it's incredibly frustraiting and the 1 gold is simply not worth the effort. If you get a second kill in a week you get NOTHING.

Edited June 6, 2022 by DirtyDan.4759

[Juan.6124]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:10 AM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Nah. I've been in the discords and they rank everyone based on their "worth" as a raider. It's inhuman.

There are no gameplay related ranks in Hs discord, only organization and moderation related ones.

[Juan.6124]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:19 PM, ugrakarma.9416 said:

Is the union of the illusion that players like strikes, + the temptation of a developer think that of cheap, low-cost content will be a good carrot.

Its smells hearding the vocal minority again, this happened with HoT. Also happened in past PvP balances, and always lead to disaster.

Anet should be careful when cater these guys who makes videos with their "DPS records" or too much "pro players"..... 

The open world player don't carry a DPS meter. The casuals carrot is almost looks, and these guys is who like buy Gem Stuff just to say to their friends that they look cool, not to say to friends theyre good and meta-building or have big DPS numbers.

Strikes worked on IBS, because theyre done what theyre promised for: a intro for others instaced content, not the main instanced content game-mode. The the IBS "strike economy" was around that idea: not forcing players to do it. Strikes rewards in IBS is  separated from OW rewards. So the elitism in IBS strikes was very reduced, at same time casuals jumped on it when they want not because they're forced.

 

 

 

Do you know what the words "challenge mode" mean?

[Juan.6124]

On 3/15/2022 at 3:54 AM, Shiyo.3578 said:

There won't be any strikes after these new 4, I guarantee it. The people who want 20 minute long square room bosses went to FFXIV years ago.

The next strike, including a challenge mode, has already been confirmed. It will be Battle for Lions Arch.

[Obtena.7952]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:45 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Effort to run things like the military for personal ego gains, yeah.

Again, you have no clue about what you are talking about. You're being ridiculous if you think there is a number of guilds setup for training because people have egos. I mean, you will encounter ALL different types of people who are training ... but to generally label them like this with that purpose is simply absurd.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Juan.6124]

25 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, you have no clue about what you are talking about. You're being ridiculous if you think there is a number of guilds setup for training because people have egos. I mean, you will encounter ALL different types of people who are training ... but to generally label them like this with that purpose is simply absurd.

It takes a kittened up personality to imagine that people lead training runs for their ego.

[Artemis.8034]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:27 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Thank you illustrating my point, that community learnt nothing from why raids failed.

TBF that is a cm run, they are not there to train they want people that can do the cm.  Nothing stops anyone from making their own group and saying if you want to learn this join me.  You have to learn to walk before you run, I did the normal modes then started doing cms. And the training groups I have been in to learn specific roles have been great. There is one on sunday evenings he does a 2 hour block to teach you the roles and raids like pylon and pillar and kiter. I would never have learned those things if he didnt take the time to teach us. I want to be useful in my raid groups and have something they need. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Artemis.8034

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 3/10/2022 at 5:52 AM, Teratus.2859 said:

Much like i've said in the past the main problem is difficulty tiers.

Raids didn't have them, this was a problem and still is and always will be until there is an easier difficulty mode to help players learn each bosses mechanics.
Strikes did have them but didn't implement them very well and some of them were cheesy and encouraged skipping mechanics which is always a very bad thing.

EoD strikes did it a lot better but putting the bosses in the story mode, so players could gets some experience with their mechanics before they try the strike mission.

on Neverwinter, their dungeons was classified by level,m the "hardest ones" is where final boss mechanics hit hard, and mobs thouger hp....,. 

 

also and wipe mechanic in gw2 is too exagerated... in neverwinter u only fall into "redoing it again", only in the final bosses, i mean, u dont have to start all stuff again because of wipe,... only the bosses.

[NaramSin.2693]

No, the playerbase it's the same with a lot of toxic elitist asking for KP and LI 🤦‍♂️ it's just faster than clear an entire wing, they also allowed them to get a turtle that they do not mind at all, since people show them just to flex they have it, and those that really want it can't have it due to the silly way to acquire a useless mount that throw them in the welcoming  kp/li country, go figure 🙉

[The Boz.2038]

Why do so many people feel entitled to a slot in raids, but don't feel like doing *any* of the work to earn it?
Why do these same people hate it when people try and organize non-training runs? 
Why do they then complain that training runs are done for ego?
Why is this all so tiresome?

[Firebeard.1746]

19 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Why do so many people feel entitled to a slot in raids, but don't feel like doing *any* of the work to earn it?
Why do these same people hate it when people try and organize non-training runs? 
Why do they then complain that training runs are done for ego?
Why is this all so tiresome?

hahahahahahahahahaahah

As a newer player, coming back in season 4, I put TONS of effort into earning gear. And learned a fairly tricky rotation too (double well chrono for alac/quick) and still had trouble finding spots when they were still a thing. And most of my experiences with raids were quite toxic to start out with. The people who raid regularly are people who consistently have good experiences and unfortunately that tends to be experienced raiders. Most experienced raiders don't care if you've done everything you can as a "noob" to prepare. Some of the few trainers out there are super mean. Most players don't want to prepare you. That's really where the problem lies. And sometimes, you'll still get flack for playing suboptimal build that is actually more optimal for training, even if it outpaces an exp player who's gotten rusty on a rotation. The only "entitlement" you could argue newer players have is to others' time in terms of learning, but once you're saying that garbage, you're basically saying you don't want raids: The whole point of raids in an MMO is to get players to band together and work together, but unfortunately in this game and in other games it's become turning into a cog in a machine and doing tons of research which just isn't fun. 

And that's basically why I went on such a strong crusade against raids for such a long time on these forums: I had put tons of effort in, learning harder rotations and gearing out many roles and couldn't find people willing to train me. 

The reason raids failed was because they were so complex, they encouraged toxicity in party formation, especially towards newer players. The other reason they failed that plays into this is many raids have many roles. I, for example have really only tanked 2 encounters in raids, and ebcause of it, I couldn't train a lot encounters worth crap even if I wanted to because I"d have to train tanks and I don't have a ton of experience telling tanks where to position. I couldn't train a tank in Xera right now even if I wanted to. It takes a lot of in-depth knowledge to properly train a whole squad because of how many little chores there tends to be. 

Also it's funny to note how subtle some of the tells in GW2 are compared to other games and how FFXIV basically added the WoW equivalent to DBM as baseline into the game. And now there's a similar debate in WoW about if they should make tells more clear. Defending GW2 raids in a box is like defending making everyone raid mythic in WoW: it's not really something most players do or would want to. 

The reason I was even able to get into raiding was I was lucky enough to find some random guy willing to train me who loves weed and was super chill, like all the time. He basically took me under his wing and let me try out a few roles in most raids and that got me to the point where I had LI and KP to do most encounters. Even then, I've lately been just sticking to interactions with the NA raid academy because I find most players too toxic to deal with and they'll help people remember mechanics when they're struggling instead of just booting. 

Anet needs to do more to encourage grit and cooperation, even when failing so players continue to work together instead of treating each other like cogs in a machine. But on the flip side, given the difficulty of raiding in GW2 against other games, I have to argue that they should give people more casual methods of legendary armor/ring acquisition that don't require WvW or PVP. 

Not everyone has a backpocket doobie rolling Californian willing to train them, so I honestly don't judge people who don't want to get into it, because I assume their experiences were much like mine before meeting said Californian. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Krzysztof.5973]

27 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

hahahahahahahahahaahah

Your entire comment nicely depicts entitlement. 

35 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

As a newer player, coming back in season 4, I put TONS of effort into earning gear.

Season 4 together with strikes already offers very easy access to exotic and ascended gear, with ascended already being BIS til the end of times. If getting single set of armor is "tons of effort" for you then I have some bad news...

40 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

still had trouble finding spots when they were still a thing. And most of my experiences with raids were quite toxic to start out with.

You got me curious, how many bosses have you killed so far? How vast is this experience of toxicity of yours?

42 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Most experienced raiders don't care if you've done everything you can as a "noob" to prepare.

No need to exaggerate. If you are "inexperienced" raider, then you join low-kp, no kp squads - not the ones by "experienced"  raiders for "experienced" raiders. Existence of their LFGs does not lock you out of raids. 

44 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Some of the few trainers out there are super mean.

Now we are spitting in the faces of all the people helping out new raiders in training communities. Nice. 

46 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Most players don't want to prepare you.

True, but not in your definition I assume. People are willing to explain simple mechanics of a boss. What they are not wanting to do is prepare you from the scratch. From gear, traits, getting specs, boons, awareness etc. 

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

And sometimes, you'll still get flack for playing suboptimal build that is actually more optimal for training, even if it outpaces an exp player who's gotten rusty on a rotation.

If this happened more than once, than the build you were playing was just bad. 

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

The only "entitlement" you could argue newer players have is to others' time in terms of learning, but once you're saying that garbage, you're basically saying you don't want raids: The whole point of raids in an MMO is to get players to band together and work together

So raids are bad because... people do not want to spend 1hr before first pull for each raids boss?
Raids were designed to be most challenging encounters in the game. Sorry, but if you are not good enough, you do not deserve to complain if you want to go straight for raids, after boosting to lvl 80. The "band together and work together" - you have open world metas for that. With strikes in place, you should start there not go straight to raids and expect everybody to explain you the basics. 

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

and couldn't find people willing to train me. 

https://snowcrows.com/explore
These guilds exist for years now, it just tells me you hadn't searched at all outside of in-game LFG.

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

The reason raids failed was because they were so complex, they encouraged toxicity in party formation, especially towards newer players. The other reason they failed that plays into this is many raids have many roles.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I, for example have really only tanked 2 encounters in raids, and ebcause of it, I couldn't train a lot encounters worth crap even if I wanted to because I"d have to train tanks and I don't have a ton of experience telling tanks where to position. I couldn't train a tank in Xera right now even if I wanted to.

Are you learning how to tank? Are you teaching others how to tank? I'm confused. 

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Also it's funny to note how subtle some of the tells in GW2 are compared to other games and how FFXIV basically added the WoW equivalent to DBM as baseline into the game. And now there's a similar debate in WoW about if they should make tells more clear. Defending GW2 raids in a box is like defending making everyone raid mythic in WoW: it's not really something most players do or would want to. 

I agree. GW2 should have stayed in casual pithole and never try to teach their playerbase how to become efficient at the game. Everybody outside GW2 bubble already sees it that way. They learned that this raids, tried again with DE meta and failed miserably. 

Once you step outside GW2's front, you might notice that in other MMOs the bosses and mechanics are actually harder than raids in GW2. 

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I've lately been just sticking to interactions with the NA raid academy because I find most players too toxic to deal with

It's good that you found a place that suits you. Also you're playing on NA, my condolences. 

And if you truly find "most players too toxic" then the problem lays with you, not them. 

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I have to argue that they should give people more casual methods of legendary armor/ring acquisition that don't require WvW or PVP. 

PvP and WvW are the casual method of acquiring legendary armor. What you want is an easier and faster way to get the shinies than the ones from examples above. They are literally QoL options only. Nothing is better than ascended. 

[Firebeard.1746]

Quote

Your entire comment nicely depicts entitlement. 

Really? because I'm not asking for anything. I already raid. 
 

Quote

Season 4 together with strikes already offers very easy access to exotic and ascended gear, with ascended already being BIS til the end of times. If getting single set of armor is "tons of effort" for you then I have some bad news...

Strikes didn't exist when I started. I was also still learning the game. Based on what I knew that's how long it took me. I'm find now dude, have many geared roles. 

Quote

You got me curious, how many bosses have you killed so far? How vast is this experience of toxicity of yours?

All . I have Coalescence, 1 crafted piece of legendary envoy armor + 100+ extra LI laying around.  You must have missed the part of my post where I explain that I got to raiding later when a nice person actually helped me get into it by training me. 

 

56 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

So raids are bad because... people do not want to spend 1hr before first pull for each raids boss?
Raids were designed to be most challenging encounters in the game. Sorry, but if you are not good enough, you do not deserve to complain if you want to go straight for raids, after boosting to lvl 80. The "band together and work together" - you have open world metas for that. With strikes in place, you should start there not go straight to raids and expect everybody to explain you the basics. 

Did you even read my post? I already explained that I learned roatations too. On one of the harder support roles that doesn't even exist anymore. Is spending hours practicing on a golem not good enough for you? I also used the very same site you linked to learn it. Also I've solo trained a CA by reading guides with a bunch of randos before. Training is still very difficult and nerve racking at the same time. 

Quote

PvP and WvW are the casual method of acquiring legendary armor. What you want is an easier and faster way to get the shinies than the ones from examples above. They are literally QoL options only. Nothing is better than ascended. 

No they aren't. The /played time it takes to get them is WAY slower than raiding. Raiding has a high upfront cost, but once you're exp you get LI progress insanely fast compared to Ascended shards of glory or tickets. Raiders are spoiled. And on top of getting the easier acquisition method, they get a special title and 25 AP to boot if they do the collections. That's not all though: they can get the cool legendary versions of PVP and WvW armors much cheaper by skinning on top of envoy, because they're tied to the ascended set, not the legendary upgrade. I feel that's really cheap and unfar. For context, I got way more LI in terms of legendary progress in less than a year of raiding than I did doing years of other game modes.  

Also Xanblast, a convert to GW2 from WoW has backed me up on her stream saying that Raids in this game approach mythic difficulty in WOW. that's a level 90%+ of WOW players never hit. Raiders and anet shouldn't expect most GW2 players to play on that level. That's another reason they failed. Raiders think they're easy because they're old and they're very used to the content, but technically speaking, GW2 raids are more difficult than WoW Heroic. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[The Boz.2038]

2 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Most players don't want to prepare you.

If you join a clear, it is not the job of the other players to prepare you.

[Firebeard.1746]

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

If you join a clear, it is not the job of the other players to prepare you.

But if all the groups available are clears and you ping in a community or LFG for trainings and no one responds during your play time windows, what are you supposed to do? 

[Krzysztof.5973]

8 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I already explained that I learned roatations too fool.

And you're telling me that "most players are too toxic" ? You became the very thing you swore to destroy Anakin. 

11 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

On one of the harder support roles that doesn't even exist anymore. Is spending hours practicing on a golem not good enough for you?

The amount of hours you spent on the golem doesn't tell me much. Some are good with 1hr, some need days to tackle down single rotation. 

13 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

All . I have Coalescence, 1 crafted piece of legendary envoy armor + 100+ extra LI laying around. 

Which puts you ahead of 99% of the forum posters. You have my respect. 

14 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

No they aren't. The /played time it takes to get them is WAY slower than raiding. Raiding has a high upfront cost, but once you're exp you get LI progress insanely fast compared to Ascended shards of glory or tickets.

That's how the cookie crumbles. Legendary set from raids takes more effort and takes less time ONLY if you are good at consistently clearing raids. WvW set can be acquired by flipping camps for a very gold time but this time, is all you have to invest. I don't see how that's a point of disagreement. 

20 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I feel that's really cheap and unfar.

It is not unfair to get better rewards for more effort. 

23 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Also Xanblast, a convert to GW2 from WoW has backed me up on her stream saying that Raids in this game approach mythic difficulty in WOW. that's a level 90%+ of WOW players never hit.

WHO? You yourself are ahead of 90% of the playerbase. Do you feel like elite?

24 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Raiders and anet shouldn't expect most GW2 players to play on that level. That's another reason they failed.

I agreed to that in my previous post. 

[The Boz.2038]

8 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

But if all the groups available are clears and you ping in a community or LFG for trainings and no one responds during your play time windows, what are you supposed to do? 

If there happens to be a moment in which the in-game LFG doesn't offer the training you need on the exact hour you need it, maybe consider Joining a discord, guild, subreddit, or other group of players that do offer raid training? 

Better than screaming "people that don't want to train me are mean and toxic!" on the forums, I think.