New Ogrewatch is great but now Red is at a big disadvantage in EB.

[Endelon.1042]

First, the new Ogrewatch Tower is great. I'm really glad to see that the giant, rushed rock pillar was actually just a temporary solution (cause it looked awful). But now the Red third of EB is at a pretty big disadvantage. The other two colors have 2 inner towers (Aldons/Jerrifers and Bravost/Langor) that are the better defended towers while Red really only has Veloka tower now.

Mendons tower is now in need of some sort of revamp as well. In its current state Mendons is really hard to defend because almost every defensive siege spot can be very easily countered by player skills from below the tower, etc. While Ogrewatch has now been made into a true outer tower (like it should be) Mendons needs some updating to make it a true inner tower.

[ori.5829]

Yea they should move Mendons closer to the keep, then it would be justified. They just nerfed red on EB without compensation. Its a close tower and cant be defended by the keep as any other.

[Sovereign.1093]

always disliked red in eb because sm can treb keep. that disadvantage is @.@

[Joshhh.2076]

I always felt as though Ogrewatch was the de facto second inner tower, despite the positioning. In fairness, you can still treb the gate and any likely cata spots from the red keep pretty easily, although its easier to treb the tower from the Ogre camp now, too.

I agree that Mendon's could use some love though.

[chronometria.3708]

Red was always balanced by having two distant towers and two that were super close....this change certainly means we should see some alteration of the other towers to compensate.

[Seffen.2875]

They should have let OW stay where it was and instead they should have moved the whole Castle more to the upper left Corner.

[MedievalThings.5417]

I don't think they listen or care. OW was moved cause it gave the last place team an "advantage" (laughable).

1. Blue and green each have 4 well designed towers. Red has 2, one of which is Anz Pass which is so far away and horribly placed that it is undefendable (so red has 1 good tower now - Veloka).
2. Red has the only keep that the inner walls can be trebbed down from an outer tower (OW).
3. Blue and green each have 2 adjacent inner towers, red now has 1 (OW requires far more effort to get to and-you can be killed while gliding there).
4. Red has the only EB keep that can be trebbed from Stonemist (almost always controlled by the strongest server in a tier, yes it flips, but one server consistently has a waypoint in it). This puts red at a huge disadvantage.
5. With the exception of poorly designed walls and 1 Elementalist AoE ability (that for some reason is allowed to hit the stairs INSIDE a tower), high ground wins fights. Red has a giant hill overlooking it's keep so that blue and green can treb the outer and inner keep at the same time. It makes it much easier to hit all defending siege.
6. Red has the desert borderland as it home BL. It's not well designed for defense and it is harder to defend than the Alpine borderlands with more ground to cover.

So, Anet decided that all of the above is OK, but it wasn't OK for the last place team in a matchup be able to glide into a tower to defend it. It is even further complicated by the fact that each week they force 1 up 1 down on us. So the red team may be seriously outnumbered and outclassed the week they are red in a tier they should not be in (just because they "won" the tier below).

If they were that worried about 1 side having a single advantage (not that I agree with that assessment), they had better be addressing the things listed above. But, as usual, I expect no communication on the issue.

[RodOfDeath.5247]

I like the new location and open field a ton. Yet again, the only issue i see is players hiding in the tower and spamming siege right on the exit of orgath uplands when you're working your way towards pang. Most of these servers greatly out number you but yet hide in the tower.

Would be nice to increase the distance between OW tower and the exit of orgath uplands. Force players to come out and play.

[Aeolus.3615]

@chronometria.3708 said:Red was always balanced by having two distant towers and two that were super close....this change certainly means we should see some alteration of the other towers to compensate.

red was initially designed for the 3rd place the server that with less players, on that round, wich also was the server to be ktrained. reason red keep can be trebed from ALOT of places that will hit outter and inner wall as well.

Still if i recall blue side and green also have their own easy siege gimmicks, places that are impossible to defend when against a full stacked sever in1 place.

[Cerby.1069]

All they have to do with mendons is add a portal entrance at the bottom where that door, with the 2 guards, that you can't interact with is. Infact that should be a destroyable gate or something as well.....all of mendons needs a redesign.

[Kirnale.5914]

Also, remove the anza hill and move anza tower a bit closer to the keep. Anza is currently too far away. Anza hill gives enemies a huge advantage, and it is not even a objective that needs to be claimed. Rework mendons, give it more ground to place sieges, and remove the option for the enemy to hit sieges from below. The height needs to be increased. The stairs needs to be place somewhere else, or farther away from the tower. Remove the small hill on mendons, which gives enemies the option to destory even more sieges.

There is just too many hills on the red side.

[XenesisII.1540]

Y'all probably shouldn't be asking for redesign changes on ebg, next thing you know they turn it into a frankenstein of it's former self. That map has the least amount of problems to worry about right now.

[Jeknar.6184]

Give Mendon's the Quentin's treatment... Boom, no more destroying siege from below. Then you can move it closer to the keep and we have a somewhat defensible tower.

[Deli.1302]

The new Ogrewatch has very little options for defensive siege that can't be destroyed by a meteor shower.The supply hut should be moved to be beside the wall.

And yeah, Mendons and the keep should be closer together.

On the plus side, love that there's now more open space around Veloka.

[morrolan.9608]

The change is laughable and puts the last place team at more of a disadvantage in EB. Its a stupidly poor change to a problem that never existed.

[LetoII.3782]

@morrolan.9608 said:Its a stupidly poor change to a problem that never existed.

They really should leave their best map alone.Is EB perfect? NoCan the current team do a better job than what was done pre-launch? xD

[primatos.5413]

One Player hitting red keep so red couldn´t easily wp in it would have fixed the issues too .. can´t remember one single thread where someone complained about OW as ist was before the change so .. why did they do this ? Hope at least they now it ...

[Sovereign.1093]

i like how ogrewatch looks now. but seems way to far from red keep. and red keep can still be trebbed from sm but blue and green can't. i see no logic in that.

[Arcaedus.7290]

@Endelon.1042 said:Mendons tower is now in need of some sort of revamp as well. In its current state Mendons is really hard to defend because almost every defensive siege spot can be very easily countered by player skills from below the tower, etc. While Ogrewatch has now been made into a true outer tower (like it should be) Mendons needs some updating to make it a true inner tower.

I call bullshido on this. Mendons is super easy to defend. It's right next to spawn. A treb on the supply depot + ballista/treb/catapult/AC on the bridge (and maybe an AC/ballista on the western wall) = impossible for you to build siege anywhere that they can't strike. My current guild is comically obsessive with capturing Mendon's. When we're out roaming, Mendon's is like the place to go (if we're not red), kinda like how all the teenagers would go hang out at the peak at night. Anyway, we've noticed that our success rate in capturing Mendon's is extremely low due to how easy it is to counter-siege there, plus receive appropriate response from defenders due to its proximity to spawn.

[LetoII.3782]

Quick question, is the mendons in your match t3 at the moment?

[Kirnale.5914]

ballista/treb/catapult/AC on the bridge ? just bomb it from below the bridge. No need to waste any supply to remove them.

Treb on supply depot? Bomb it from the stairs.

Ac/ballista? Meteor shower it.

Another thing: You expect a roaming troop/guild troop to take over a defensive tower? Why not go to langor or any other close tower. Your success SHOULD be low to take it over, unless you have an army.

[Jeknar.6184]

@LetoII.3782 said:Quick question, is the mendons in your match t3 at the moment?

No... And that's incredible considering it's a NSPPT tower.

[Edu.6984]

1) Bring back the old tower2) Put an invisible wall to prevent flying from keep to tower.

[Aeolus.3615]

@xDudisx.5914 said:1) Bring back the old tower2) Put an invisible wall to prevent flying from keep to tower.

doesnt need, flying from red keep to OW was working cause ktrain dont care about fight and rush to lords, while Anet dont want players denfending structures delayign the ktrain.

All that was needed was players that were taking OW, also building balistas and farm the flyers, Anet moved OW cause its easyer to ktrain, harder for defense to respond.

[Bunter.3795]

Rather than making more changes to EBG and it's map, why not change the server assigned to the red section? Why not make the winner of tier 1 or the 1 down server the red server? This would make it harder on the "stronger" server and change the dynamics in EBG.

People might say well the stronger server will just take SMC to stop their keep from being trebbed, well they do that now and keep it to treb the weaker red server. Make it that they want to keep SMC in order to stop their keep from being trebbed.

A lot of people still hate the desert/red bl. Make it so that the 1 down or "stronger" server has to have it. Why give them the advantage?