The Increasing Toxicity in the Community

[Doctor Hide.6345]

5 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

It's not necessarily a lack of player skill, it's also the visual pollution that Anet keeps adding with every new boss encounter. There's so much different coloured AoEs on the ground, a lot of which overlap, and some of which are beneficial - either from the encounter or from player support - it's kitten difficult to see sometimes where to stand. Add to that boss or other NPCs cluttering up the space, plus 50 players standing in various places, there is too much visual pollution. If it could be a simple as: green is good, white is neutral, and red is bad, that would help a lot.

 

This is why I avoid all metas and most fights in this game. Even with "Best Performance" I find it a pain at times to see stuff because of all the visual noise this game throws at you. GW2 is not the only one of course who does this. There are too many games that think increased visual noise is good because it adds "challenge" when in reality it just kills people because they can't see stuff coming at them.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Labjax.2465]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

This is why I avoid all metas and most fights in this game. Even with "Best Performance" I find it a pain at times to see stuff because of all the visual noise this game throws at you. GW2 is not the only one of course who does this. There are too many games that think increased visual noise is good because it adds "challenge" when in reality it just kills people because they can't see stuff coming at them.

Tbh, in GW2's case, I suspect the visual noise is less about thinking it's a challenge and more about art direction and spectacle. Something like: "throw so much at them, it creates the feeling of being overwhelmed and that will make it seem more important and pivotal a moment in the game." Then again, maybe it's just the assets/tools they are working with from launch that went overboard and that's all there is to it.

I mean, I remember Akylios from way back in the day in Rift (can't believe it's been like 10 years from then). You can go back and watch vids of it, very little visual noise, but still great at spectacle. Also, watching a vid of it doesn't really do it justice. That was one raid experience I won't soon forget.

And to GW2's credit, sometimes I do like what they are doing with spectacle in ways similar to Akylios, I just wish it wasn't such a visually noisy experience.

[Raizel.8175]

5 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Nah, this is a bunch of nonsense. There is nothing toxic about wanting to play the game in a lax way. If you enter into instanced content that is designed to be challenging AND you expect people to carry you and accommodate you screwing up without you having to try, then yes, that would be a messed up thing to do. But the toxicity of late coming from EoD is no such thing. Most open world content does not require much commitment or effort and it is odd for people to be suddenly expected to treat it like a tightly tuned raid.

There is a huge difference between playing lax and not being cooperative and you appear to be conflating the two (plenty of "elite" players are terrible at being cooperative, for example when they go off on other people for making mistakes, which is antithetical to teamwork and cooperation). Lots of people will try to do better if you approach them in a friendly way and help them do it. OTOH, if you do what a lot of elitist players will tend to do and talk down to those who are struggling, or condescend to them under the guise of "helping," then rejection of the so-called "help" should be expected.

It's not a tightly tuned raid though? Again: The issue isn't the average DPS needed - 7k is very, very low -, the issue is the RNG involved with boss mechanics and if you talk about suggestions about how to improve that aspect, all you get are confused faces while people who are just whining that everything is evil and shouldn't exist without contributing any constructive feedback always get happy reactions. The toxicity of late is coming from these players that just don't want to interact with the game. It has nothing to do with "playing lax". "Playing lax" or "playing casual" doesn't equate to "playing bad" now, does it? I also don't get the complaints about the "evil elite" - most organized squads are very friendly and always try to explain mechanics etc. in ordner to succeed. A few bad examples don't lead to the entire "elite" being "evil". That would be conflating.

[Hesione.9412]

1 hour ago, Raizel.8175 said:

It's not a tightly tuned raid though? Again: The issue isn't the average DPS needed - 7k is very, very low -, the issue is the RNG involved with boss mechanics and if you talk about suggestions about how to improve that aspect, all you get are confused faces while people who are just whining that everything is evil and shouldn't exist without contributing any constructive feedback always get happy reactions. The toxicity of late is coming from these players that just don't want to interact with the game. It has nothing to do with "playing lax". "Playing lax" or "playing casual" doesn't equate to "playing bad" now, does it? I also don't get the complaints about the "evil elite" - most organized squads are very friendly and always try to explain mechanics etc. in ordner to succeed. A few bad examples don't lead to the entire "elite" being "evil". That would be conflating.

People aren't hitting 7K. Some people aren't hitting 3K. 

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

It's not a tightly tuned raid though? Again: The issue isn't the average DPS needed - 7k is very, very low -, the issue is the RNG involved with boss mechanics and if you talk about suggestions about how to improve that aspect, all you get are confused faces while people who are just whining that everything is evil and shouldn't exist without contributing any constructive feedback always get happy reactions. The toxicity of late is coming from these players that just don't want to interact with the game. It has nothing to do with "playing lax". "Playing lax" or "playing casual" doesn't equate to "playing bad" now, does it? I also don't get the complaints about the "evil elite" - most organized squads are very friendly and always try to explain mechanics etc. in ordner to succeed. A few bad examples don't lead to the entire "elite" being "evil". That would be conflating.

So the toxicity you're basing this on is emojis? I get trolled all the time on here in that way just making average suggestions for changes or additions to the game, or simply arguing a point on just about anything. That's Anet enabling that garbage and it happens pervasively across different topics to anybody and everybody, that's not on a specific style of player. They should really just disable all but like and thanks, there was a time the Sims 4 Forums went through something where they had a laughing emoji reaction and people were using it to mock others on serious posts (they eventually got rid of it). I don't know why they encourage such a childishly toxic environment. It can't be that hard to disable it in the forum tech.

As far as the raid thing goes, there's a quote I heard about from a streamer (one I'm under the impression is pretty well known) that called it a "nonconsensual raid." I'm not just pulling that term out of nowhere myself.

To address your other point, I never said all skilled players are elitist, much less evil, so you can drop the exaggeration. Elitist and elite/skilled are not the same thing. I probably should have used the term skilled instead of elite anywhere in there, as it's too close to elitist. A skilled player can be elitist or not be elitist. Weirdly enough, even an unskilled player can be elitist. Presumably due to the dunning-kruger effect.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Raizel.8175]

14 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

People aren't hitting 7K. Some people aren't hitting 3K. 

If you aren't even hitting 3k with the boon overload you enjoy there, then you're actively not playing the game. 7k is very easy as long as you aren't playing a full heal build.

13 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

So the toxicity you're basing this on is emojis? I get trolled all the time on here in that way just making average suggestions for changes or additions to the game, or simply arguing a point on just about anything. That's Anet enabling that garbage and it happens pervasively across different topics to anybody and everybody, that's not on a specific style of player. They should really just disable all but like and thanks, there was a time the Sims 4 Forums went through something where they had a laughing emoji reaction and people were using it to mock others on serious posts (they eventually got rid of it). I don't know why they encourage such a childishly toxic environment. It can't be that hard to disable it in the forum tech.

As far as the raid thing goes, there's a quote I heard about from a streamer (one I'm under the impression is pretty well known) that called it a "nonconsensual raid." I'm not just pulling that term out of nowhere myself.

To address your other point, I never said all skilled players are elitist, much less evil, so you can drop the exaggeration. Elitist and elite/skilled are not the same thing. I probably should have used the term skilled instead of elite anywhere in there, as it's too close to elitist. A skilled player can be elitist or not be elitist. Weirdly enough, even an unskilled player can be elitist. Presumably due to the dunning-kruger effect.

I'm basing the toxicity on the sheer unwillingness to play the game several people are displaying during the last few days. If people don't want to understand basic game mechanics to begin with and play for rewards, then they probably don't deserve rewards associated with certain activities.

...and yeah, maybe you aren't saying that people who are doing instanced PvE content are toxic, but some people just love to generalize that way in order to paint a certain bogeyman. The raiding community isn't some monolithic block - there are actually several casuals who are raiding successfully.

[fixit.7189]

On 3/16/2022 at 4:06 PM, Hesione.9412 said:

It's not necessarily a lack of player skill, it's also the visual pollution that Anet keeps adding with every new boss encounter. There's so much different coloured AoEs on the ground, a lot of which overlap, and some of which are beneficial - either from the encounter or from player support - it's kitten difficult to see sometimes where to stand. Add to that boss or other NPCs cluttering up the space, plus 50 players standing in various places, there is too much visual pollution. If it could be a simple as: green is good, white is neutral, and red is bad, that would help a lot

Also there is the fact that the engine can cull ground effects when there is large amounts of players in the area so they become totally invisible. i can't count how many times i been downed by ground aoe that gets culled. it's kinda hard to avoid this stuff when it doesn't even show on my screen, ya know.

Edited March 17, 2022 by fixit.7189

[Cynder.2509]

Having mastered everything and being good at their stuff makes you toxic. Interesting... Go on. ^^
 

[Labjax.2465]

7 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

I'm basing the toxicity on the sheer unwillingness to play the game several people are displaying during the last few days. If people don't want to understand basic game mechanics to begin with and play for rewards, then they probably don't deserve rewards associated with certain activities.

Gonna need examples, cause right now this just sounds like garden variety elitism. "They probably don't deserve rewards associated with certain activities" and you are calling others toxic LOL.

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

22 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

People aren't hitting 7K. Some people aren't hitting 3K. 

Power Mechanist gets ok numbers on granade kit autoattack. Mukluk did a video on that recently 😁

[Raqs.2189]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Gonna need examples, cause right now this just sounds like garden variety elitism. "They probably don't deserve rewards associated with certain activities" and you are calling others toxic LOL.

People don't must be toxic to write something like that, please don't judge people by your assumptions. 
I would like to write something about whole "toxic" thing.
First of all, when ppl was creating an account they checked "i'm 18 years old", so even if some kids lied with that, they must known what can happen. I don't defend the adult ones who's insulting or something, i just want to say "don't cry, you knew what can happen". If someone don't know it's "defending human mechanism", it's not good, but sometimes people while they are angry they do stupid things like that. Please understand and forgive them.
Now about the reasons why it's happening.
Meta events, raids, strikes, fractals, dungeons, pvp, wvw - this contents are based on TEAMWORK, if some people can not play well, they are not experienced enough or just don't know a class what playing and they are going to some hard things, it's obvious that they gonna failing, maybe not on all but for sure on some aspects, and the thing is you ppl must with respect understand - people don't play only for having fun, they playing also for rewards to earn some gold for better or more fancy stuff SO if people goes to some hard meta or something else, they expect good or just acceptable playing skills. Please understand with humility, some squads are demanding, so if you're not yet good enough please learn first how to do something (tutorials, vidoes on yt, streams), and then go and try your your skills. About dragons's end meta event, it is demanding boss to finish it right now, maybe anet will make it more easier, but now it's not. This is role-playing game, so please learn how to do your "job" if you don't yet, and don't make problems to people who wants to do something like they want.

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Raqs.2189

[Raknar.4735]

6 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

Having mastered everything and being good at their stuff makes you toxic. Interesting... Go on. ^^
 

Having mastered and being good at tricking the community so that they leave the map indeed makes people toxic.

Guess i need to train more in the special forces training area to see how high I can get my people per second leaving map counter.

 

[Labjax.2465]

24 minutes ago, Raqs.2189 said:

People don't must be toxic to write something like that, please don't judge people by your assumptions. 
I would like to write something about whole "toxic" thing.
First of all, when ppl was creating an account they checked "i'm 18 years old", so even if some kids lied with that, they must known what can happen. I don't defend the adult ones who's insulting or something, i just want to say "don't cry, you knew what can happen". If someone don't know it's "defending human mechanism", it's not good, but sometimes people while they are angry they do stupid things like that. Please understand and forgive them.
Now about the reasons why it's happening.
Meta events, raids, strikes, fractals, dungeons, pvp, wvw - this contents are based on TEAMWORK, if some people can not play well, they are not experienced enough or just don't know a class what playing and they are going to some hard things, it's obvious that they gonna failing, maybe not on all but for sure on some aspects, and the thing is you ppl must with respect understand - people don't play only for having fun, they playing also for rewards to earn some gold for better or more fancy stuff SO if people goes to some hard meta or something else, they expect good or just acceptable playing skills. Please understand with humility, some squads are demanding, so if you're not yet good enough please learn first how to do something (tutorials, vidoes on yt, streams), and then go and try your your skills. About dragons's end meta event, it is demanding boss to finish it right now, maybe anet will make it more easier, but now it's not. This is role-playing game, so please learn how to do your "job" if you don't yet, and don't make problems to people who wants to do something like they want.

 

If by job, you mean DPS, then that is a reasonable expectation for a raid. It's not a reasonable expectation for an open world map, especially since Anet provides no native DPS tool in open world.

If you mean you should know the mechanics beforehand, that's not a reasonable expectation. Even in raiding, sometimes you need to bring in someone new and teach them the fights.

With regards to judging people, I don't think I've ever said that skilled players or squads with high expectations are inherently toxic or something. For what it's worth, I don't think it's reasonable for someone who didn't put any effort in to expect an organized and serious squad or guild to take them on and carry them. But I doubt that's what is happening here. I imagine what's more likely happening is the open world setup is causing people to end up in situations where they aren't wanted by groups that want to take it more seriously and that is NOT the fault of those players, it's the fault of Anet causing this conflict in open world.

I am judging that particular poster on them using phrasing like: "If people don't want to understand basic game mechanics to begin with and play for rewards, then they probably don't deserve rewards associated with certain activities. "

It would be one thing to say... they don't deserve to get a spot in a squad that is trying to take the content seriously. That's fine. Nobody is obligated to carry another player. When they start talking about what rewards in the game a person "deserves," that sounds a lot like elitist territory. "I am better than these lesser skilled players and they don't deserve to get the rewards I get."

However much we agree or disagree on this, I think we can agree that those who want to take open world very seriously and those who don't want to take it very seriously should not be pushed into this needless conflict because Anet wanted a big finale for its dragons content.

[mikko.4013]

26 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Having mastered and being good at tricking the community so that they leave the map indeed makes people toxic.

This is another matter.

Those Guild leaders' behaviors were unacceptable.

 

But it doesn't change the fact that many players are genuinely bad at playing the game, and they have shown no will to improve themselves. Moreover, those same players demand to win endgame events without efforts. Isn't it another form of toxicity ?

 

Getting wiped because no one knew how to dodge, how to jump over a shockwave, how to cc, or HOW TO READ a chat... and then, whining about the difficulty of the meta event... is very childish.

 

"Casual players" and "bad players" are not the same, even though these 2 populations can overlap.

 

Some ppl's bad deeds don't cancel other ppl's bad deeds.

[Raqs.2189]

20 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

If by job, you mean DPS, then that is a reasonable expectation for a raid. It's not a reasonable expectation for an open world map, especially since Anet provides no native DPS tool in open world.

If you mean you should know the mechanics beforehand, that's not a reasonable expectation. Even in raiding, sometimes you need to bring in someone new and teach them the fights.

With regards to judging people, I don't think I've ever said that skilled players or squads with high expectations are inherently toxic or something. For what it's worth, I don't think it's reasonable for someone who didn't put any effort in to expect an organized and serious squad or guild to take them on and carry them. But I doubt that's what is happening here. I imagine what's more likely happening is the open world setup is causing people to end up in situations where they aren't wanted by groups that want to take it more seriously and that is NOT the fault of those players, it's the fault of Anet causing this conflict in open world.

I am judging that particular poster on them using phrasing like: "If people don't want to understand basic game mechanics to begin with and play for rewards, then they probably don't deserve rewards associated with certain activities. "

It would be one thing to say... they don't deserve to get a spot in a squad that is trying to take the content seriously. That's fine. Nobody is obligated to carry another player. When they start talking about what rewards in the game a person "deserves," that sounds a lot like elitist territory. "I am better than these lesser skilled players and they don't deserve to get the rewards I get."

However much we agree or disagree on this, I think we can agree that those who want to take open world very seriously and those who don't want to take it very seriously should not be pushed into this needless conflict because Anet wanted a big finale for its dragons content.

True, it's not reasonable expectation on open world - in almost all meta events there is no need to know raid rotations, but meta on dragon's end is showing that is more or less nessesary because of time which is not much to finish that boss. 
About mechanics, you're right too but like before i wrote, this boss is showing up that it is nessesary to know that boss to finish it. Of course there will be new ppl on this meta, or even new in the game on this meta, but in that case they must be carried by the others which means it's more mossible to fail that.
About that conflict, true Anet (with respect) made a meta what is very demanding (what i even like, because it's challenging and not boring) as open world content and they contributed to that difficult situation... Maybe they wanted to that meta be demanding or maybe they didn't think over that to the end... I don't know. But if that meta should be that demanging like a raid boss or even more, then Anet should make a possibility to make a private instance (then ppl could demand LI or KP from raids) where people could be more sure about finishing it.

About your judging, well... you was right. I somehow have seen that from different perspective and didn't understand that well, sry. Everyone should get some rewards, even ppl who's doing something with the smallest effort but in case of demanding meta or something else, that attitude is not acceptable by ppl who's trying his best and ppl like that shouldnt be in squad prepared to make something seriously.

[Raknar.4735]

2 hours ago, mikko.4013 said:

This is another matter.

Those Guild leaders' behaviors were unacceptable.

 

But it doesn't change the fact that many players are genuinely bad at playing the game, and they have shown no will to improve themselves. Moreover, those same players demand to win endgame events without efforts. Isn't it another form of toxicity ?

 

Getting wiped because no one knew how to dodge, how to jump over a shockwave, how to cc, or HOW TO READ a chat... and then, whining about the difficulty of the meta event... is very childish.

 

"Casual players" and "bad players" are not the same, even though these 2 populations can overlap.

 

Some ppl's bad deeds don't cancel other ppl's bad deeds.

It‘s not another matter. The same people telling others to get good are actively trying to exclude players by tricking them, not even giving them the possibility to get good.

And yeah, about those genuinely bad people that can‘t get better. Should they just leave the game in your opinion? I‘m pretty sure that‘s how you get a dead game, as there would be barely anyone left, just like what happened to raids, serpent‘s ire, marionette…

Telling people to read chat is ironically funny here, as that‘s how people tricked others into empty maps.

You know what‘s childish? Whining about other people whining & calling any valid sort of criticism „whining“. Do you know why the meta was already nerfed and adjusted? Hint: it wasn‘t the whining. It was actual stats that drove Anet to change things.

Agree, casual players and bad players are not synonymous.
The average player and casual player is also not synonymous. The average player has problems with the event, that is why Anet has already started adjusting it. The casual player just leaves the game, without saying a word.
And most people that think they‘re hardcore, aren‘t. Many are just bad players getting carried by the work truly hardcore players have put in, as in the guidemakers themselves.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Raknar.4735

[SlateSloan.3654]

I dont think community is "toxic".

what in internet language is quickly called "toxic" nowadays is actually just the natural habbit that people dont want to fail because others are completely unprepared and dont contribute properly to the group they play with.

Imagine you are sitting with your friends in a bar. suddenly someone you dont know appears and takes a seat at your table. he tells you that he wants to spend the evening with you guys and he wants to eat and drink. when the waiter asks to pay the bill for the first round that guy ate and drank for 30 dollars but now suddenly wont contribute by paying his share to the bill. What is your reaction to this in that moment?

is the restaurant now "toxic" because of this? is the group that prepared and brought money with them now "toxic" because some scrounger tries to scrounge through the evening on them?

We dont have a "toxcity" problem in community we have a problem with players who dont care what happens around them and dont prepare for anything to properly contribute. And if these are getting told not to scrounge around they quickly put themself into the victim role of being not properly treated... a shame that is!

Its about to bring the share you are supposed to bring and not to await that others "will properly just do what is right and it will work out somehow". everybody is able to prepare before joining somewhere.

you want something you bring something.

[Gibson.4036]

The word “toxicity” is so popular it’s losing its meaning.

People are being labeled “toxic” for using gamer abbreviations in LFG and wanting to play with people with similar goals and experience.

People are getting labeled “toxic” just for expressing on the forums that they don’t like things in the game, no matter their tone.

There is definitely bad behavior going around that could be labeled “toxic”, but then people end up using the word to label any behavior they don’t like.

[Zok.4956]

4 hours ago, Raqs.2189 said:

First of all, when ppl was creating an account they checked "i'm 18 years old", so even if some kids lied with that, they must known what can happen.

The game is PG-12 (in some countries).

[Gibson.4036]

22 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

The game is PG-12 (in some countries).

Indeed.

The ESRB rating is T (Teen), which they define as suitable for ages 13 and up. Though they may want to check out whether that still applies with the recent uptick in swearing in the writing.

[mikko.4013]

1 hour ago, Raknar.4735 said:

It‘s not another matter. The same people telling others to get good are actively trying to exclude players by tricking them, not even giving them the possibility to get good.

Low skilled players who don't want to improve is not the same matter as commanders trying to trick people out of "their" map. Think about it, those 2 phenomenons are related, but they are not the same.

You shouldn't generalize to all commanders, it doesn't serve your point.

 

1 hour ago, Raknar.4735 said:

And yeah, about those genuinely bad people that can‘t get better. Should they just leave the game in your opinion? I‘m pretty sure that‘s how you get a dead game, as there would be barely anyone left, just like what happened to raids, serpent‘s ire, marionette…

First, I NEVER stated that those genuine bad players couldn't get better. Read again. There is a non negligible part of low players that will refuse to make any efforts to improve. You can't deny it.

If people don't want to make that small effort, then yes, imho, they shouldn't complain about how "hard" the meta-event may be.

 

1 hour ago, Raknar.4735 said:

You know what‘s childish? Whining about other people whining & calling any valid sort of criticism „whining“. Do you know why the meta was already nerfed and adjusted? Hint: it wasn‘t the whining. It was actual stats that drove Anet to change things.

Are you taking this criticism personally ? Because it wasn't meant to hurt your feelings.

Moreover, you will have to bring some evidence that those whinings were "valid".

Stating that your point is the right one doesn't make it right, right ?

 

ANet is a commercial company, it was pretty obvious they would nerf it, because the situation would drove some people off the game. But, eventually, even after the "nerf", people keep complaining...

 

My point was that many people don't want to learn, don't want to make any efforts in understanding the meta, don't want to adapt to any challenges, don't want to understand how to play in a squad.

They want their new candy/toy immediately, and are whining when they can't get it easily.

 

Personally, I did get my eggs, both in NA and EU, but I didn't care about the turtle collection. I did the meta for the challenge, not for the reward. I have the egg, but no turtle, and I don't mind.

[mikko.4013]

1 hour ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Telling people to read chat is ironically funny here, as that‘s how people tricked others into empty maps.

Did you get tricked ? Because your reaction amazes me.

 

I was talking about the reading inability of some players, which is a real problem when you want to play a MMORPG.

If they don't want to read what other players tell them, then yeah, they would rather go play a solo RPG.

 

The chat was just a tool that some commanders used to trick people. Do you want to delete the chat function ? Chat is very useful to explain a meta, to explain what a good build is, to assign roles... to play, actually.

Not reading the chat is like trying to ride a bike without using your hands : it is possible, but it is hard. So let's not complain about the difficulty if people don't use a basic tool such as chat.

Some players used LFG and Commander tag to trick people. Maybe we should delete LFG and Commander tags ?

 

Let's go further in the thinking, what do people play gw2 for ? The gameplay ? The challenge ? Or just some virtual reward (aka the infamous putrid turtle) ?

I did fail DE's meta twice or 3 times, but this meta-event still keeps me hyped, because it is genuinely interesting, with a real challenge.

 

I would underline that turtle is by NO MEANS necessary to story completion, nor the gameplay.

100% game completion is not necessary to be able to enjoy the game.

If people want 100% game completion, they should accept to put some efforts in it.

Edited March 18, 2022 by mikko.4013
Additional thoughts

[Raknar.4735]

1 hour ago, mikko.4013 said:

Are you taking this criticism personally ? Because it wasn't meant to hurt your feelings.

Not really, I‘ve got my egg and turtle in the first release week. I don‘t care about the meta, as it isn‘t fun to me in its current state. I‘ll simply continue to ignore it, that‘s the best way to show Anet what my opinion on this matter is.

If rightly pointing out how people are abusing others over the meta makes you this hurt, i‘m not sure who‘s feelings are hurt here though.

This isn‘t me being emotional about it in any way, people are actually turning toxic due to how the meta is constructed, so I‘m pointing it out. The meta actually is making people do toxic things ingame, as seen by the actions of that person I‘ve linked earlier.


Your overblown reaction towards me for stating the obvious, that Anet is already adjusting the meta towards the average player, and will continue to do so if their stats tell them, is also ironically funny.

You‘re very adamant about telling everyone here how others should play. That they should get better. Guess what? It doesn‘t matter what you want others to do.
The masses will still play the way they want.

Most don’t even visit social media and will never read your post. And Anet will accomodate to the stats of the players actually playing. Neither your opinion, nor mine alone matters here.

If the average player deems the meta to be too hard, it will not get played. The stats will show that. And at the current rate, the DE meta seems to be going the same way as raids, marionette, serpent‘s ire etc. if no adjustments are made.
Somehow i doubt Anet is going to let it go that easily, as it is the finale to the ED story.

You however seem to have a problem with all the „whining“ that is going on on the forums and just add to it. It‘s like you‘re on social media for the first time. You can‘t stop the complaining by complaining yourself.

I‘d also like to underline that the turtle 🥚 isn‘t only part of the meta anymore, you can get it without it, so I‘m not sure what you‘re on about. The 🥚 bears no particular relevance in the meta anymore.

In the end this will just go by like a storm. Unhappy complaints from both sides now, Anet will either change the meta or keep it the way it is, more complaints from both sides resulting in an event that either gets played or completely ignored. Complaints will die down until the next thing that gets complained about comes.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Raknar.4735

[mikko.4013]

26 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

If rightly pointing out how people are abusing others over the meta makes you this hurt, i‘m not sure who‘s feelings are hurt here though.

Absolutely not hurt by that. They deserve what they got (public shame).

You don't seem to understand that the inability  to adapt, the lack of basic skills (dodging, jumping, using a special action key, reading a chat) is a different problem from toxic commanders tricking people.

You are getting back to the tricking commander point in every of your posts, I already said I did agree with you.

Don't make me say what I didn't say, it doesn't serve your point, once again.

 

26 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Your overblown reaction towards me for stating the obvious, that Anet is already adjusting the meta towards the average player, and will continue to do so if their stats tell them, is also ironically funny.

There is nothing funny nor strange in ANet's reaction. As I already said, ANet is a commercial company. Customers satisfaction should be their main concern (which I doubt sometimes, RIP Ele).

 

26 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

You‘re very adamant about telling everyone here how they should play. That they should get better. Guess what? It doesn‘t matter what you want others to do.
The masses will still play the way they want.

You didn't understand me. Maybe you have troubles reading, too.

Many average players don't know how to dodge, how to jump, how to cc, how to read a chat. Facts.

If they want to stay that way, fair enough. It's none of my business, but they should know why they failed, and how to overcome this difficulty.

Whining about dying to simple mechanics is kinda sad, especially when there are people who explain it.

 

26 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Most don’t even visit social media and will never read your post.

I don't care / don't mind. It's always a pleasure to debate here, I don't expect to have any effects on "the masses", as you call them.

 

26 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

If the average player deems the meta to be too hard, it will not get played.

And ? DE's meta is not all that EoD has to offer, isn't it ? Not all gw2 players did buy EoD, didn't they ?

 

26 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

You however seem to have a problem with all the „whining“ that is going on on the forums and just add to it. It‘s like you‘re on social media for the first time. You can‘t stop the complaining by complaining yourself.

Yeah yeah sure, very strong argument ^^

I could also say that it is you who is whining about me whining about whining people. Great ^^.

 

Once again, my statement is : "Many bad players don't know the basic mechanics of this game, and don't want to impove. That is one of the reasons why people fail DE's meta. Whining about it is useless, self-improvement is a solution."

Edited March 18, 2022 by mikko.4013

[Hybrid Theory.7361]

Don’t forget, gw2 players seem to be more sensitive than most games, call them a doo doo head and they make forum post about it