The strikes go on far too long and thus have terrible replay value

[Nephalem.8921]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Do you hate heal scrapper too? The only difference is quickness vs alacrity and fury/might. Bulwark gyro with toolbelt (Defense Field)/purge gyro is more or less the same function as barrier burst/barrier signet and crisis zone , a few seconds of aegis is not gamebreaking on 30s base cooldown and there's no cooldown reduction on the heal mech build.

Keep in mind if you are in med kit then you aren't applying alacrity via mace; CC is rather poor for fractal use as well as the mech's boon source being a liability if it dies or is CC-ed.

Anyone who plays WvW already knows heal scrapper has the highest healing when boons are up , compounded by quickness speeding up med kit.

F2 and passive existence are enough for perma alac. no mace aa required. cc is top tier. not sure why you say its rather poor.

200 mace3, 200 shield 5, 150 shield 4, 464 thumper turret: 1014 + soft cc from mortar 3+4.

You compare a 5k barrier for 5 players skill with 35% dmg redirection? the latter would kill the scrapper twice if it redirects the amount of dmg you can absorb with barrier. the barrier even lasts longer. 

the difference is that mech brings 3-4k barrier per sec aswell on top of stronger regen and medkit heal. barrier also bypasses agony in fractals.

[Infusion.7149]

24 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

F2 and passive existence are enough for perma alac. no mace aa required. cc is top tier. not sure why you say its rather poor.

200 mace3, 200 shield 5, 150 shield 4, 464 thumper turret: 1014 + soft cc from mortar 3+4.

You compare a 5k barrier for 5 players skill with 35% dmg redirection? the latter would kill the scrapper twice if it redirects the amount of dmg you can absorb with barrier. the barrier even lasts longer. 

the difference is that mech brings 3-4k barrier per sec aswell on top of stronger regen and medkit heal. barrier also bypasses agony in fractals.

You're overestimating the value of a pulsing (non-instant) ~1K barrier that requires significant healing power and trait investment along with a long cast time; the ~260ish barrier per second (barrier engine has a ICD of 3s) from barrier engine is likewise not anything different than shared soothing mist or virtue of resolve anywhere there isn't agony. I'd expect the passive to be reduced in effectiveness in the future but its effect is overstated. March 15th patch already reduced barrier generation on Barrier burst (f3).

How is F2 any different than using F4 on renegade? You even need the mech to be alive for it to work.

600CC on one skill that is <12s cooldown is far more CC than mechanist mace3 which is the only skill that is <15s cooldown and all those have cast times. You'd run battering ram instead of thumper turret in most cases due to cooldowns if it's a strike and people actually CC.

I've played with mechanists in party before, even if on paper the CC is "1014" that is not what happens typically.

Shiyo is talking about strikes, so the agony bit isn't relevant.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Mechanist is the strongest support in the game. Alacrity mechanist is the best alacrity giver, and it's also the best healer. It's mostly what people ask for now, and you more often than not get people offering to play it when pugging. There's no trade off when your ALACRITY button also gives AEGIS AND STABLITY.

Stop being condescending, all of you.

Ah yes, so there is no trade off that was listed before. 🤦‍♂️  Give it a few weeks and everything will be hammered down to reasonable levels, but also, you're claiming these strikes are too difficult in the same kitten post.  Sounds like you're just either not finding good teams or actually the one underperforming.

But also that skill has a 30s cooldown.  Or 22.5 seconds with 100% alacrity uptime, requires a trait that locks you out of the DPS traits (Condition or Power).  Also you seem to not realize that a heal mechanist doesn't really do damage.

[Shiyo.3578]

39 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

you're claiming these strikes are too difficult in the same kitten post.

Show me where I said that. I have yet to wipe in a EoD strike.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Shiyo.3578

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Show me where I said that. I have yet to wipe in a EoD strike.

Well that's not what I said, so thanks for living up to my signature.

I said

43 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

but also, you're claiming these strikes are too difficult in the same kitten post.  Sounds like you're just either not finding good teams or actually the one underperforming.

  While you said:

On 3/14/2022 at 7:27 PM, Shiyo.3578 said:

The fights are too easy while also requiring full attention or you die. Decide if you want hard fights or easy fights, this in between just feels terrible.

Where you claim they're 'too easy' and then 'require full attention or you die'.  Which is it?  Are they too easy or do they require players to actually pay attention?

[Shiyo.3578]

21 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Where you claim they're 'too easy' and then 'require full attention or you die'.  Which is it?  Are they too easy or do they require players to actually pay attention?

The answer is literally in your quote. They are not interactive enough to be hard, but also interactive enough to require your full attention.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

16 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

The answer is literally in your quote. They are not interactive enough to be hard, but also interactive enough to require your full attention.

Almost like ANet specifically said they're going for a difficulty between open world and raids when they announced strikes or something. 🤔

[Bakeneko.5826]

5 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Almost like ANet specifically said they're going for a difficulty between open world and raids when they announced strikes or something. 🤔

I'd go for more difficulty, but less HP. It gets annoying very fast whacking moving DPS dummy for 20 minutes to repeat same stuff 2 more times (Harvest temple is fun)

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

5 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

I'd go for more difficulty, but less HP. It gets annoying very fast whacking moving DPS dummy for 20 minutes to repeat same stuff 2 more times (Harvest temple is fun)

That's a valid critique, tbh.  More mechanical difficulty, less HP bloat.

[warherox.7943]

On 3/15/2022 at 2:11 AM, Asum.4960 said:

Considering the reward structure of EoD Strikes is designed in a way where you do one Strike per day, each day for maximum rewards - I don't really see how up to 10 minutes of gameplay a day is in any way out of line. 

 

As for why Aegis and Stability still work as intended.. what else are they going to do? The problem of Aegis was that it was too frequent with Mantra of Solace, not that it works as intended. 

If Anet circumvents Aegis and Stability constantly, it just becomes an unintuitive mess about when the game's mechanics work and when they don't. If they are still a problem, Anet needs to reduce availability (or distribute it more equally), not arbitrarily suspend their function. 

Holding key skills with key functions for specific moments is engaging gameplay, just sheer permanent and spammed immunity to disables is boring and problematic.

They did this with the DE meta where the boss's one shot AoEs go through dodge and it's really stupid. 

[Shiyo.3578]

On 3/15/2022 at 2:11 AM, Asum.4960 said:

Considering the reward structure of EoD Strikes is designed in a way where you do one Strike per day, each day for maximum rewards - I don't really see how up to 10 minutes of gameplay a day is in any way out of line. 

You need to find 9 people with the correct builds who are decent and know mechanics for a grand total of 1.5g.

Pretty terrible  reward for the effort required.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Shiyo.3578

[Astralporing.1957]

On 3/19/2022 at 1:20 AM, Shiyo.3578 said:

The answer is literally in your quote. They are not interactive enough to be hard, but also interactive enough to require your full attention.

That would mean being the perfect difficulty - not so easy it might be too boring, but not too hard to actually keep people away.

Frankly, i'd wish the normal strikes were really at such a level.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[morsdood.1987]

Do more DPS

[Nephalem.8921]

On 3/19/2022 at 11:18 PM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

I'd go for more difficulty, but less HP. It gets annoying very fast whacking moving DPS dummy for 20 minutes to repeat same stuff 2 more times (Harvest temple is fun)

have you tried bringing more dps? with decent players you already have sub 1min phases. the first strike boss spends more time in rp transitions than being attackable.

[Asum.4960]

8 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

You need to find 9 people with the correct builds who are decent and know mechanics for a grand total of 1.5g.

Pretty terrible  reward for the effort required.

My response was really just about your complaints concerning their time investment, which with decent DPS imo really isn't that long at all, especially since EoD Strikes are designed to be done one per day (which, just to be clear, is something I don't really agree with either). 

 

I do agree with you though in that they don't feel particularly rewarding. Even if one spends all the weekly Prophet Shards (which are currently far too limited) on MC's and Summoning Stones (which will likely drop much further still), it's not exactly the greatest payout for investment and effort - a problem that endgame content (see Raids, Fractal CM's) has in general, the more organisation and effort (group finding, gameplay) is required, the lower the relative rewards become. 

 

Personally I'm just so glad about any and all content in GW2 that isn't so easy that it makes my brain leak out of my ears and actually allows me to play the game and interact with it's mechanics, buildcraft and combat system somewhat that I take what I can get - and I'm at a point ingame where I can and am valuing Gameplay drastically over Rewards. 

 

But again, while it's not necessarily my focus, I do agree that for the long-term health of the content population wise, it does need better incentives - something it has in common with all longer form, more challenging content that requires grouping and organisation.

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Shiyo.3578]

1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

something it has in common with all longer form, more challenging content that requires grouping and organisation.

legendary armor, yes.

[ardhikaizecson.3697]

Kaineng overlook is the only one that I think where the boss has way too much hp, the highest 5 of dps dealers which deal around 23-27k each has their total damage to bosses 5 millions and below. which is crazy. it was almost 15 minutes during the early days where people are still learning and figuring the mechanic. now it tooks more or less 8 minutes.

[daisyk.4523]

They also don't have a lot of long-term goals/rewards (in the way that Raid CM titles and Fractal Titles) to incentivize casual players (who might later want to join the hardcore/semi-hardcore scene) to invest time into being adept at them.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

The EoD strikes "go on for too long" because your average player's DPS is TRASH. Anything above that and they're not that long. Good DPS and they're hardly that much longer than IBS.

[Luci.7018]

About the rewarding stuff :

How about , an extra button inside the instance , that spawns more mobs and becomes Raid-like for increased rewards ?

Baseline form , offer small  amount , and will be used as a semi-hardcore progression step (hopefully -_- , mehh) where ppl can spent their time dying over and over till the learn the mechanics.

 

Edit: And a Third LFG section , for CM+ Raids (something like a Hub across all the expansions) .

And ...something ... ...like.. that , for the normal Modes

Edited April 18, 2022 by Luci.7018