Castillan.4259 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 9 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said: The issue is that you have an invincible tank while doing 41k dps. You're being overly dramatic. I play a Mech. I promise you that the mech is not invincible, not even in Open World, and the Mech itself is not the main source of DPS. In practise, to be honest, the Minion Master feels more low-energy. Also, NO ONE is doing 41K with a Mechanist without serious keyboard dancing skills, and that's no different to pretty much any other class. Yes, the Mech can hold the aggro of open-world enemies while you wail on them, but that's no different to pretty much every other class with a Rune Of Golemancer, or any other pet-based class. I believe that you're deliberately conflating issues for some personal butt-hurt agenda you have going on. 8 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Wait, @Shiyo.3578, I thought none of the EoD specs were being played because the PoF specs were all too powerful. 5 3 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsilon Indi.2031 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: So, there IS a problem with Mechanist. No build in the game should trivialize content with so little effort. It's astounding to me that anyone would defend what this spec is capable of. The only consolation; Anet's watching. I'm sure lots of people are taking every bit of advantage of the features this build brings as I have. Their data won't lie to them. Bruh, the DPS builds are selfish and provide next to nothing via support. The DPS+Boon builds do less damage than firebrand or renegade, both of which have about the same level of complexity in the rotation. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarius.9285 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 17 hours ago, Tatwi.3562 said: Nerfing it into the ground to satisfy raiders as a raider, I very much enjoy being able to do literally everything on my engineer, so no, please don't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said: Bruh, the DPS builds are selfish and provide next to nothing via support. The DPS+Boon builds do less damage than firebrand or renegade, both of which have about the same level of complexity in the rotation. That's nice ... but that doesn't change what I said. The problem with this spec has nothing to do with not having support or its DPS being less than something else. Edited March 21, 2022 by Obtena.7952 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Asking for mechanist to be nerfed because it makes open world content (which is already trivial) easy and safe is kind of short sighted. A couple of easy classes are needed to appeal to a wider audience. As long as it has competitive weaknesses and requires some effort to point the mech at things, I don't mind it being easy if it means someone's loved one who doesn't play mmos much can jump in and be useful. Not to mention Engie had one of the highest open world pve caps before holosmith. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsilon Indi.2031 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: That's nice ... but that doesn't change what I said. The problem with this spec has nothing to do with not having support or its DPS being less than something else. I guess firebrand and renegade don't trivialize content with little effort then. 🤔 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said: I guess firebrand and renegade don't trivialize content with little effort then. 🤔 It's arguable how much effort those things need to do that and not even relevant to this thread. It's NOT arguable how little effort Mechanist does require to trivialize content though. Edited March 21, 2022 by Obtena.7952 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) Like any damage build (and some non) can get 20k+ dps without any effort on a golem with max buffs. All to say to that is Edited March 21, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsilon Indi.2031 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, Obtena.7952 said: It's arguable how much effort those things need to do that. It's NOT arguable how little Mechanist does. So you do have a sense of humor. Renegade is literally sword auto attacks. Maybe you can slip in a sword 2 and 4 in there if you're feeling bold. Firebrand can generate its own quickness and might for huge burning damage. In fact, a lot of DPS specs can achieve above 20k DPS with recommended buffs & Boons with just auto attacks and AFK. Skill rotations only make up for about a third of the DPS a class can do. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, Sir Alymer.3406 said: So you do have a sense of humor. Renegade is literally sword auto attacks. Maybe you can slip in a sword 2 and 4 in there if you're feeling bold. Firebrand can generate its own quickness and might for huge burning damage. In fact, a lot of DPS specs can achieve above 20k DPS with recommended buffs & Boons with just auto attacks and AFK. Skill rotations only make up for about a third of the DPS a class can do. Again ... if those things are OP'ed, go make a thread about it. It's not relevant here. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chichimec.9364 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Asking for mechanist to be nerfed because it makes open world content (which is already trivial) easy and safe is kind of short sighted. A couple of easy classes are needed to appeal to a wider audience... This. When I first started playing, I had trouble staying alive on the HoT and PoF maps. It wasn't until I started playing a rev and a minion master that I was able to actually to play those maps. Both those classes were durable and easy to play for me, enabling me to stay in Tyria for the 4+ years I've been here. Atm I've been playing the mechanist a lot since EoD dropped and have been enjoying it for the same reason - it's easy and durable to play. There's a place for the complex, high skill builds and a place for easier to play builds. That broadens the appeal of the game, which benefits all players. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: Again ... if those things are OP'ed, go make a thread about it. It's not relevant here. Something can’t be overpowered in isolation. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerus.4350 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: It's arguable how much effort those things need to do that and not even relevant to this thread. It's NOT arguable how little effort Mechanist does require to trivialize content though. You lost me here. Mechanist is a bit OP, I'm an Engi main but I won't lie about that. However there are other builds that trivialize content just fine themselves, Firebrand being one of them. Personally I feel like they could get Mechanist into a good position with 2 changes. Base Mech stat inheritance being reduced from 50% to somewhere in the 30-40% realm would likely make the Mech itself a bit less trivializing in open world. You'd still inherit the Condi Damage/Expertise with that trait, and I'd add the Power stat to the Prec/Fero inheritance trait to make up for this loss. Then for the support side, it's going to have insane sustain simply by design, and getting away from it would cost a LOT. ALL the healing is from Core Engi which shouldn't be nerfed. But, they took that and added more on top through barriers. It is what it is there, but on top of that it's spitting out boons like it's nobodies business. Take some of the duration off of Might/Protection from Barrier Burst. Make us take the Experimental Turrets trait, losing out on Soothing Detonation, and make us take a turret or two, using up 1-2 utility skill slots. Do that and I think it's "fine". Still very powerful, but like a Firebrand "fine" where it's really pretty OP and a perfect example of power creep. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said: Something can’t be overpowered in isolation. OK ... I didn't say it was. Edited March 21, 2022 by Obtena.7952 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails.9372 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: Again ... if those things are OP'ed, go make a thread about it. It's not relevant here. Except it is relevant because if it's not just this class but a more general thing then the questions become "How much should player skill and gameplay complexity be able to influence in-game performance?" and "Is the general skill floor in GW2 currently to low?". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: OK ... no one said it was. Then bringing up other specs is germane to the conversation. Edited March 21, 2022 by Gibson.4036 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said: Except it is relevant because if it's not just this class but a more general thing then the questions become "How much should player skill and gameplay complexity be able to influence in-game performance?" and "Is the general skill floor in GW2 currently to low?". 5 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said: Well, if people can’t bring up other specs performing Then bringing up other specs is germane to the conversation. I didn't say they couldn't. I said it wasn't relevant to the question of Mechanist being too good for what it does for the effort needed. If other specs are too good for what they do for the effort they need ... THAT IS ALSO A PROBLEM. I mean, what is the point you guys are trying to make here? Because we have other specs that trivialize the game for little effort ... then it's OK that Mechanist does to? I'm calling crap on that logic. There shouldn't be ANYTHING that allows people to trivialize content just pressing one. Edited March 21, 2022 by Obtena.7952 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackmonster.2790 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 It's incredible how far players will go to deny and shoot down others in other to cling onto their own overpoweredness and effortless playstyles. Mech clearly is way overpowered in all game modes, on top of that it's a ultra safe pet build with way too much of eerything, teleports, heals, shield, boons, etc. You name it. To let this thing it the game is a massive disrespect to all rangers who wanted a good pet build for example, and everyone else that's gotten nerfed into the ground for years for have a small part of such power. Meawhile all the forumers who want to cling onto the broken are trying to shoot down everyone else and pretend its not really much. LMAO, human nature never change. 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castillan.4259 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: I mean, what is the point you guys are trying to make here? Because we have other specs that trivialize the game for little effort ... then it's OK that Mechanist does to? I'm calling crap on that logic. The point being what is the REAL reason that Mechanist is being called out when there's probably 20+ other specs/builds that do the same? Are we just going to ignore all those too? What is it that the OP is REALLY complaining about here? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Castillan.4259 said: The point being what is the REAL reason that Mechanist is being called out when there's probably 20+ other specs/builds that do the same? Are we just going to ignore all those too? What is it that the OP is REALLY complaining about here? The REAL reason is that isn't not ok for ANY builds to trivialize content so easily (and no, that's completely nonsense to say other builds deliver so much for so little effort ... even Staff Mirage isn't THIS bad). I don't know the OP's reason ... but I have mine. Edited March 21, 2022 by Obtena.7952 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerus.4350 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: even Staff Mirage isn't THIS bad Naw it's Axe Mirage that has the 28k+ AFK DPS. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castillan.4259 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: The REAL reason is that isn't not ok for ANY builds to trivialize content so easily (and no, that's completely nonsense to say other builds deliver so much for so little effort ... even Staff Mirage isn't THIS bad). I don't know the OP's reason ... but I have mine. Seems that you're pretty much playing the elitist card here. "No one has the right to play something that they don't have to work as hard at as another class". I assure you that there are other builds that make the mechanist look second rate, and only require a few more key-presses here and there. The Mech isn't invincible, and it will die quickly in certain scenarios unless the player actively manages it. Does it hold aggro so that the player can focus their rotations? Sure, but that option is also available to literally every other spec if they want it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Castillan.4259 said: Seems that you're pretty much playing the elitist card here. "No one has the right to play something that they don't have to work as hard at as another class". No, that's wrong. If that's how you interpreted my posts, you're just reading into them. My point is clear: Mechanist delivers too much for the effort needed to get it. FULL STOP. Edited March 21, 2022 by Obtena.7952 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castillan.4259 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: No, that's wrong. If that's how you interpreted my posts, you're just reading into them. My point is clear: Mechanist delivers too much for the effort needed to get it. FULL STOP. Now that just looks like gaslighting by saying that something isn't what it clearly is. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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