For the people who don't read the front page - Anet Studio Update

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

see, i don't care if u think it doesn't add up.

 

anet needed think about their nerfings and nerfing policy and how it affects the large scale gameplay on a potential 60v60v60 gamemode maybe before they make fat changes to it.

 

and the complete policy was 95% nerfs, 5% random buffs ... like the dh longbow buff. unnecessary and making it a really busted dps specs. u still need more than one stab load to get out of the cages from it for no real reason.

 

the retaliation removing for a useless boon only created freecaster meta. random eles with meteors... anyone thinking that's really a good change?

[Wrain.6792]

Wont give them another dime.  Purchased this so called "NEW EXPANSION' for the "upcoming Pvp and WvW!".

 

Haven't even logged in since this expansion was released.  Straight lied.  i'm out.

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 3/24/2022 at 1:36 AM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

But what stops those unfun cheap fb, scrapper, scourge boonballs from being kitten all over the place?

 

On 3/24/2022 at 2:15 PM, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

any group of 20 meta class players with a competitive mindset. the good groups dont go ppt-blobbing

 

On 3/24/2022 at 3:43 PM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Your response does not make sense. You don't fight fire with fire.

It makes sense up to the point where he makes the mistake of saying "meta".

Good groups tend not to play the pickup meta. That doesn't mean they don't use the same classes. It simply means that there is more variation. They also guide the meta, in the sense that certain things that makes it into the "meta" (or into spots on the meta sites) were many times played by good groups for a long time while the sheep kept bleeting about it being bad, then it got curated onto a meta site and now those same sheep are being herded towards it while calling out something else.

That's just the way it goes and you can see it in any game and any mode. The gatekeepers who are being toxic about regementation is rarely among the actually good players, they're among the mediocre. Good players play other things, have more flexible and varying views on composition and builds (but also more demanding views). When those players join pickup content they consider it casual stuff where they do as they please. Sometimes that means playing meta stuff for various reasons (usually, they want to help the commander with what is more sorely needed) but many times it means playing things that strictly are not meta or are the fringes of the meta sites. Many times they also form their own parties, because why party with lesser players when you have better friends? Even if they play with public squads. Most of this is only logical and natural, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

[Zyreva.1078]

12 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

the retaliation removing for a useless boon only created freecaster meta. random eles with meteors... anyone thinking that's really a good change?

Oh no, another spec that isn't FB, scourge, scrapper, rev in WvW. How dare they play something different. Needs to be deleted from the game asap.

 

Really?

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@subversiontwo.7501 i have never seen a good group without meta stuff trying to fight at a 20v20 size at least. and even at 15v15s u have a (different) specific meta, as it's not yet largescale there

 

i see a lot of random gankercomps, but they usually don't live up even to their own numbers. only plain ganking lonely pugs. idk, not too impressive. even those who can kill a 15ish cloud with their six people comp... not very impressive. half pugs run no stab, no cleanse and most pug clouds have zero healers/cleanses. then one gets downed and helps that way the six man group even passively by either bating handres or beeing a killable token to rally one of your six guys. not really magic or hard idk

 

@UmbraNoctis.1907 bruh that was one freaking example for all glasscannons. a good played ele is just by far the most effective one against 25+ sized groups. if u need hints, the retal removing gave crazy indirect buffs to things like nade engis, reaper, thieves, rangers, dh as well

[subversiontwo.7501]

39 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 i have never seen a good group without meta stuff trying to fight at a 20v20 size at least. and even at 15v15s u have a (different) specific meta, as it's not yet largescale there

Those two examples are kinda sorta the same thing. Every guild builds rosters with a margin and plays with some ups and downs in numbers. A guild built for 15's often times has 20 on an open map. Similarily, a guild built for 25(ish) sometimes drop down to 20 on a raid. The guilds built for around 25 have traditionally done that because it allows them to create content with equal guilds of equal size, smaller guilds of higher ambition (ie., the 15's) and pickups upwards of full squads (ie., 40-ish zergs at least). The guilds built for 15's obviously do that for the GvG traditions. I know of very few guilds specifically built for 20's.

That also tend to explain why you see meta more prevalent among the 25(ish) guilds because guilds that aim to be "better" or more ambitious tends to drop down towards 15's even if they may not be looking to get into GvG in a strict sense. Guilds that become exceedingly strong at the 25(ish) scale tend to end up like that because they are full of 15's veterans looking to chill. Those players are just so far ahead that the guilds end up a bit too dominant. Those tend to come and go though since they're not really purpose-built to dominate. Most groups tend to have content in mind, not domination (esp. not since there's nothing to dominate, really).

What most guilds tend to have in common though, and this is getting a bit off here, but it feels like the same discussion has been sparked in this thread as well as in Dan's overall balance thread and in Dan's nigh duplicate Ele balance thread that all see simultainous posting now: But almost every comp involve the same fundamental role distribution of a primary support, a secondary support, and primary and/or secondary damage dealers and rippers. Metas then establish for the most common or clean-cut ways to fit into those roles but the discussion of balance (actual balance) is more complex and tend to involve more concerns for things that in the meta (or by the players who look to follow the meta) isn't as valued.

I know this is a bit abstract and vague but the aforementioned Ele discussions provide a good example: To understand the Ele in the meta you have to understand that it fills a secondary support role and not a primary one. You can also see the mistake people make when they compare it to the Engi and the Guard because they tend to only look at the upside of both those classes at once. They then also overlook what else the Ele brings to the table (undervaluing auras, undervaluing the ability to balance pressure and support, undervaluing having a strong role to swap into based on squad needs), so they tend to just look at those other classes and go "I want that, for my Ele, because I am an Ele". That's their conception of balance. Anyway, I digress. This has little to do with the Studio Update, though I guess the studio update has little to talk about that we haven't heard many times before 🤭.

I think the most eye-catching thing in the Studio Update was the admittance that they also pulled the programmers off Alliances to polish EoD so beta 3 was obviously just a bone to the dog. I can't remember where I read it or if it was just me cruising on hopium but I could have sworn that I saw them saying that they wouldn't be doing that sometime in the past few months. Yet here we are. Completely abandoned again, if only for a couple of months.

Edited March 26, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Zyreva.1078]

49 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

i see a lot of random gankercomps, but they usually don't live up even to their own numbers. only plain ganking lonely pugs. idk, not too impressive. even those who can kill a 15ish cloud with their six people comp... not very impressive. half pugs run no stab, no cleanse and most pug clouds have zero healers/cleanses. then one gets downed and helps that way the six man group even passively by either bating handres or beeing a killable token to rally one of your six guys. not really magic or hard idk

Small grp fighting more than twice their number is easy mode, but your 30 player meta boonball farming pugs that barely outnumber you is somehow the epitome of skillful gameplay? Ok ...

 

49 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

 

@UmbraNoctis.1907 bruh that was one freaking example for all glasscannons. a good played ele is just by far the most effective one against 25+ sized groups. if u need hints, the retal removing gave crazy indirect buffs to things like nade engis, reaper, thieves, rangers, dh as well

Earlier you said scrapper, fb, scourge is the only things that keeps those "memebuilds" in check and now those very same memebuilds are suddenly "the most effective" ones at countering them? What?

 

 

[Gorem.8104]

Hey look, they changing defiance bars which does exist a little bit in wvw! a wvw update! 😄

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 3/22/2022 at 3:50 PM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I've been saying this brooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It's def them promising early on so they can somehow keep people around to play or have the incentive to come back. 

I can't think EoD was such a success as to not see anything around it on the week's release....

Also isn't Daddy NCSoft pumping money into another MMO planned rn?

Not to mention that now that EoD is "over" and at some point the must take a look at comp modes, they'll start chewing the gum "our efforts are now directed towards the 4th expansion of the game".

I've worked in the military and for a resort with lots of group building and PR classess so when they say "I'm proud of my team and all our hard work" ok, yeah I would hope so but were you successful? Were all very proud of the effort we do in any profession we're in....

I saw a dev leaving Anet and say they loved learning and being a lead and their team is in good hands....ok, but was EOD successful?

[Riba.3271]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:17 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

As we mentioned last year, once population balance and rewards are addressed, our theory is that WvW gameplay will see a significant shift. At that point, we intend to look very hard at core WvW systems (upgrades, scoring, siege, etc.) and balance them to ensure that the WvW experience is still reflecting our vision.

Main issue is this sentence.

Almost nobody is dueling due to claim buffs and roaming is mostly ganking due to everything being T3, fighting inside objectives is pure garbage, upgrading is just unstoppably fast, shield gens block every defensive siege, small groups can't take anything (unless they actively avoid fights). The gameplay won't see any shift even if you balance the populations or increase the rewards. Because no one is going to look actively to shoot themselves in the foot.

 

These core WvW systems literally have the largest impact in how WvW plays out and take least time to implement. It takes fixing 1 skill, maybe adjusting watchtower tactic and changing some numbers.

 

This is similar case to where you put off helping your kid being bullied in front of you because you are earning money for their college fund. Just not the right order of things.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Threather.9354