Given the Untamed's player reception, can we get some feedback from Anet?

[Redfeather.6401]

5 hours ago, cafard.8953 said:

That said, it's super weird that core ranger weapons don't get an untamed skill set. It's like if Soulbeast was released with a special pet and that was the only one which would give you a merge skill. I hope Anet gets onto the case and develops a full set of untamed weapon skills, that would do wonders.

oh exactly how it feels to me as well. I want to be free to mix things to create builds. Not just use a hammer and CC back and forth with a pet. Guild Wars isn't supposed to be "play THIS way or don't play".

Edited March 26, 2022 by Redfeather.6401

[Gyousa.5609]

Would really appreciate some kind of direct communication about Untamed, similar to how the Catalyst changes got documented.

Hoping for some meaningful changes coming soon, but a lot of problems I have are in the design of the spec which can't be fixed just by tweaking some numbers.

[Ausar.9542]

On 3/23/2022 at 1:00 PM, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Ok I find it incredibly weird that they did not mention WvW when advertising espec with features that feels like designed for zergfights, and then mention wvw on espec that I still fail to see what it is supposed to be bringing to make it a good in any part of wvw that ranger was not good at already (i.e. zergfights).

That's AN for you I suppose.

suppose to be a front-line brawler in zerg fights. but that didnt play out well. 

[Levetty.1279]

On 3/23/2022 at 5:01 PM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

3. These two can do 20~27k damage each  if used proper. Better then what I've seen from pets so far.

How?

[Levetty.1279]

Double post

Edited April 1, 2022 by Levetty.1279

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

How?

By buffing your pet damage. Pet unleashed skills are bit weird in that both ranger and pet own  parts of them.
Pet owns the stats used by these skills. Ranger owns their cooldowns.

So you:

1. pick a pet with high power and precision (Phoenix is best there).
2. Slot beastmastery for all around stat boosts and huge ferocity boost (honed axes + pet's prowess).
3. Blinding Outburst trait in Untamed traitline - works for both 1st and 2nd pet unleashed skills.
4. Get 25 might stacks and give them to pet with "We heal as one!".
5. Sic'em, obviously.
6. Attack of Opportunity with GS maul or interrupt with Moment of Clarity trait.
7. Opening Strike with remorseless trait (guaranteed crit, 25% extra damage) or just predator's onslaught after making sure target suffers movement impairitng condi (though here your pet may fail to crit).
7. Grab popcorn and enjoy the big fat hits.

Ofc it'll take time for you to get it right. You want all the damage boosts stacked and then going for bit fat unleashed pet hit, not watch it waste it on auto (and sic'em will make it auto). You'll need to be able to either recall the pet before it autos or press unleashed skill fast, so it cancels the auto wind up and hits the target first.

[Levetty.1279]

3 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

By buffing your pet damage. Pet unleashed skills are bit weird in that both ranger and pet own  parts of them.
Pet owns the stats used by these skills. Ranger owns their cooldowns.

So you:

1. pick a pet with high power and precision (Phoenix is best there).
2. Slot beastmastery for all around stat boosts and huge ferocity boost (honed axes + pet's prowess).
3. Blinding Outburst trait in Untamed traitline - works for both 1st and 2nd pet unleashed skills.
4. Get 25 might stacks and give them to pet with "We heal as one!".
5. Sic'em, obviously.
6. Attack of Opportunity with GS maul or interrupt with Moment of Clarity trait.
7. Opening Strike with remorseless trait (guaranteed crit, 25% extra damage) or just predator's onslaught after making sure target suffers movement impairitng condi (though here your pet may fail to crit).
7. Grab popcorn and enjoy the big fat hits.

Ofc it'll take time for you to get it right. You want all the damage boosts stacked and then going for bit fat unleashed pet hit, not watch it waste it on auto (and sic'em will make it auto). You'll need to be able to either recall the pet before it autos or press unleashed skill fast, so it cancels the auto wind up and hits the target first.

Its like a little cruise missile.

[Zyreva.1078]

4 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

By buffing your pet damage. Pet unleashed skills are bit weird in that both ranger and pet own  parts of them.
Pet owns the stats used by these skills. Ranger owns their cooldowns.

So you:

1. pick a pet with high power and precision (Phoenix is best there).
2. Slot beastmastery for all around stat boosts and huge ferocity boost (honed axes + pet's prowess).
3. Blinding Outburst trait in Untamed traitline - works for both 1st and 2nd pet unleashed skills.
4. Get 25 might stacks and give them to pet with "We heal as one!".
5. Sic'em, obviously.
6. Attack of Opportunity with GS maul or interrupt with Moment of Clarity trait.
7. Opening Strike with remorseless trait (guaranteed crit, 25% extra damage) or just predator's onslaught after making sure target suffers movement impairitng condi (though here your pet may fail to crit).
7. Grab popcorn and enjoy the big fat hits.

Ofc it'll take time for you to get it right. You want all the damage boosts stacked and then going for bit fat unleashed pet hit, not watch it waste it on auto (and sic'em will make it auto). You'll need to be able to either recall the pet before it autos or press unleashed skill fast, so it cancels the auto wind up and hits the target first.

That's a lot of investment, just to waste it on low dmg skills. What's the point?

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

5 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

That's a lot of investment, just to waste it on low dmg skills.

Strongest hits a pet can do. On pretty sweet cooldowns and fast activation. Would not call that low damage.

 

 

5 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

What's the point?

May be couple of points:

1. for funzies.

2. Ranger's own dps doesn't exactly suffer too greatly from this combo. Beastmastery (especially honed axes) + another dps line is pretty good. Be it marskmanship or skirmishing. I don't see ranger dps builds suffering from having sic'em or signet of the wild on'em.

3. These hits are independant from ranger's own stats, and partially pet's. You can take this to OW, and for example do a combo of a tanky pet with high power but crappy precision as long as you use remorseless trait proper and just bomb mobs that swarm your pet. Heck i got my pet dps hits with my ranger in trailblazer gear. Not optimal, but true.

[Zyreva.1078]

4 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

2. Ranger's own dps doesn't exactly suffer too greatly from this combo.

It does, quite a bit actually. Both bm and sic'em are a dps loss on Untamed (skirm + marks is best for power dps, skirm + ws for condi). It is simply way better to focus on the ranger's own dmg than try to buff pet dmg which is alwas going to be subpar in PvE.

[BadSanta.6527]

well  i think anet has problome with balance of the untame , first i dont think its just a balance issue the  desigen is bad. 

second anet to afraid of buffing pet they are afriad from the pvp communitiy

[Hallow.7368]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:51 PM, cafard.8953 said:

I like hammers, I like ranger, now my ranger can use a big hammer *and* it comes with 10 skills. That's enough to make me happy.

That said, it's super weird that core ranger weapons don't get an untamed skill set. It's like if Soulbeast was released with a special pet and that was the only one which would give you a merge skill. I hope Anet gets onto the case and develops a full set of untamed weapon skills, that would do wonders.

Not a big fan of the green pet goo, and that's from someone who kind of liked the soulbeast green stuff. But eeh, I guess it's visually distinctive at least.

Not really. Core weapons weren't designed with untamed in mind. In order for this to happen core weapons would have to work completely differently so that the pet unleashed versions have utility and the player unleashed heavy damage compared as right now they're all relatively balanced to their niche as a stand alone weapon. Creating 8 new abilities on top of the ambushes for every single weapon is not a realistic expectation. Core weapons are completely usable on untamed as where not being able to merge with your pet is a completely different ball park because merging is pretty much all soul beast is.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

I think anet already addressed the problem with untamed/bladesword in this link:

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-strike-missions-balance-and-rewards/

 

The spirit revamp is going to give more options in terms of boon support for untamed, especially since it has fervant force (boon spam).  This could mean that untamed can have easy access to alacrity or quickness. potentially, depending on how anet revamps spirits, untamed could get easy access to other boons such as might, protection, vigor, fury, stability, etc. 

 

Though the damage is low, untamed in on itself has a lot of group utility in the form of projectile denial, boon removal, and crowd control. 

In combination of revamped spirits and the utility that untamed has, untamed would probably be far more playable and is what anet is doing in response to how useless untamed feels right now.

Besides, if revamped spirits are good but untamed damage is still too low I'm sure anet could up the damage somehow.

 

[Kaenaydar.5631]

They really need to buff untamed as it stands people expect more dps then it can provide. I want to like Untamed given i never liked Soul Beast however it stays on low dps it will mean people wont want in squads. Wvw is great but if it cant function in pve it will be ignored.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Zyreva.1078]

7 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

The spirit revamp is going to give more options in terms of boon support for untamed, especially since it has fervant force (boon spam).  This could mean that untamed can have easy access to alacrity or quickness. potentially, depending on how anet revamps spirits, untamed could get easy access to other boons such as might, protection, vigor, fury, stability, etc.

But spirits are already good in PvE. Probably the main reason why druid is still a thing in raids. So if nobody brings spirit untamed now, why would they do so in the future? Access to boons that other classes can already provide just fine is not going to change anything.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

Hmm, yeah you got a point.

But... spirits are getting revamped. And anet will change the boons that spirits will provide. Which could be a positive for untamed as untamed can't provide much in terms of boons to groups already.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by BumboJumbo.1308

[Levetty.1279]

I hope the spirits rework makes them usable outside of instanced content. Most of the game doesn't really gel well with sitting in one place for a long time.

[Lazze.9870]

On 3/23/2022 at 3:08 PM, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Soulbeast sounds more like wvw spec to me

All three ranger elite spec have qualities that improved ranger in wvw.

None of them delivers a complete package. Soulbeast lacks a new impactful weapon and still has to rely on greatsword, a stationery axe 5 and projectiles weapons.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Ehecatl.9172]

8 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

But spirits are already good in PvE. Probably the main reason why druid is still a thing in raids. So if nobody brings spirit untamed now, why would they do so in the future? Access to boons that other classes can already provide just fine is not going to change anything.

 

That depends on what the changes are like. We might get more unique boons like Frost Spirit, and if we get the same boon support as other classes have that'll be one less reason NOT to bring us at the very least. We'd still need a damage buff, but the group wouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot by giving up perma quickness or whathaveyou like they would be now.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

12 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

But spirits are already good in PvE. Probably the main reason why druid is still a thing in raids. So if nobody brings spirit untamed now, why would they do so in the future? Access to boons that other classes can already provide just fine is not going to change anything.

The main draw of druid is required role compression- druid can deal with most mechanics that aren't forced to being multiple person tasks while also acting as a healer during those (flak kiting/bomb grabbing on sabetha is something you do for the whole fight, but also still heal during), while also having spirits as a nice little bonus and compensation for not having any rare boons.

 

If they make spirits terrible, druid will easily fall out of favor, and untamed won't stand a chance.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

10 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

All three ranger elite spec have qualities that improved ranger in wvw.

None of them delivers a complete package. Soulbeast lacks a new impactful weapon and still has to rely on greatsword, a stationery axe 5 and projectiles weapons.

1. Druid is dogwater in wvw, it brings nothing really useful beyond the occasional burst of healing

2. Soulbeast in wvw doesn't tend to use axes for duelist, ranger greatsword is an amazing weapon, and soulbeast duelists tend to take longbow and greatsword. Axe/axe GS is an offshoot from the typical soulbeast roamer, and soulbeast is the best roamer currently

3. Untamed doesn't give anything that beats out soulbeast for roaming and the pet is useless in zergs.

[Lazze.9870]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:08 AM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

1. Druid is dogwater in wvw, it brings nothing really useful beyond the occasional burst of healing

2. Soulbeast in wvw doesn't tend to use axes for duelist, ranger greatsword is an amazing weapon, and soulbeast duelists tend to take longbow and greatsword. Axe/axe GS is an offshoot from the typical soulbeast roamer, and soulbeast is the best roamer currently

3. Untamed doesn't give anything that beats out soulbeast for roaming and the pet is useless in zergs.

I'm talking about qualities compared to what core ranger brings in a wvw zerg, perhaps you should get the context of what you're replying to before trying to state something as obvious as what weapons a roaming soulbeast defaults to...

1. Druid is better than core ranger for zerging, that doesn't necessarily mean it is particularly good.

2. Again, zerging. GS and double axes are the go to for zergs and GvG (the former being a niche immob role, the latter being an area of the game where soulbeast has been reliably able to countribute in).

On the note of best roamer, it is good, but not a definitive best.

3. Same as druid, untamed brings more to the zerg table than what core does. Again, that doesn't mean it is particularly good at it.

To iterate the point I was making; all three elite specs have brought qualities that makes the class more useful for zerging, but none of them delivered a complete package despite the potential being there. Untamed and druid is held back by the existence of the pet. In my opinion, druid is the spec that should have forgone the AI completely as the pet brings nothing to the support playstyle even in smaller fights. The replacement could have been anything from a new set of skills that act independetly from the avatar, to a more fleshed out avatar mechanic. Soulbeast solves the pet issues and brings some nice shared stances, but it came with a dagger which is useless for zerging and has to rely on the same weapons as core ranger for zerging, which again is not optimal.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Cytoplasma.8216]

back to the matter

 Does anyone have any information as to whether the arena is going to comment on untamed at all?

 

I guess I'm not the only person waiting for some entry about this class.

I'm not even waiting for an entry like "oh yeah. He will already do dmg"

I mean the usual explanation of why they did that.

 

from the information available to me it appears that this is the only so hopeless class that appeared in the new expansion. I find it at least strange about that.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

 

22 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

1. Druid is dogwater in wvw, it brings nothing really useful beyond the occasional burst of healing

2. Soulbeast in wvw doesn't tend to use axes for duelist, ranger greatsword is an amazing weapon, and soulbeast duelists tend to take longbow and greatsword. Axe/axe GS is an offshoot from the typical soulbeast roamer, and soulbeast is the best roamer currently

3. Untamed doesn't give anything that beats out soulbeast for roaming and the pet is useless in zergs.

You should really try an immob/bleed build for Druid.  As a roamer nothing is beating a good one, most you are going to do is vastly outnumber it so they run, stalemate and both leave out of boredom, or lose.  

I run full melee Soulbeast in WvW with great effect (with OH axe); I don't disagree soulbeast still has to rely on GS (almost every ranger variation does) but I do disagree about dagger not being impactful, as you can stack a ton of quickness.  I also don't think Soulbeast is the best roamer, you just don't tend to find good players often for the things that are (i.e. Weaver).

I'd agree on 3, mostly because of all the stat buffs you get with merged Soulbeast and Beastmastery.  

Edited April 4, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Cytoplasma.8216 said:

back to the matter

 Does anyone have any information as to whether the arena is going to comment on untamed at all?

 

I guess I'm not the only person waiting for some entry about this class.

I'm not even waiting for an entry like "oh yeah. He will already do dmg"

I mean the usual explanation of why they did that.

 

from the information available to me it appears that this is the only so hopeless class that appeared in the new expansion. I find it at least strange about that.

 

I'm guessing they are reading the forums for player backlash 'input' and going from there.  Since there is supposedly a bigger rework coming in a few months they most likely will just do everything then.