WvW Problems - Would have it been better to just rework WvW completely?

[Xenesis.6389]

7 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said:

I think instead of having multiple worlds we should have just 3 to pick.

The fights would happen in many instances and the results would be added at the end of the week, without one instance knowing the results of the other.

Its a crazy idea i know, but i believe it would incentivize more players to care about winning and thereso having 24/7 coverage

what happens when everyone picks the same one?

[bluberblasen.9684]

Just make more advertisements to wvw.

* give wvw some shiny  infusion (not tradeable)

* give us super shiny skins for rams, catapults, arrow carts and so on. ( some tradeable some that you get by playing for a ( very)  long time.

* change the ticket system ( diamond chest at the start not at the end) so more people could play for an hour every day instead of never play this game mode.

* make more pve missions that use wvw mechanics, so some people could love that and come to wvw to try it in real mode.

* Increase the rewards for solo / small scale that you no need a big squad for getting baggys / rewards ( let us carry 20 or 25 supplies at low level) and than increase it to 25 or 30 with higher levels. ( and increase the supply of every level 0 camp to 250 and increase it to 500 level 3 camp)

* increase supply generation from every camp.

* give more ways to spend our wvw  rewards. ( you can also buy legendary components for legendary sigill and legendary runes additional to the PvE ones)

 

 

[kleisthenes.6247]

Long time GW1 and GW2 player here, but relatively new to WvW.   Morning and midday, if I can get on then is probably when WvW is most fun. There will be half organized groups, but not over the top organized groups like in the evening (with comps, extreme preparation etc).   The big and very organized zergs is not fun, because most of the time it will just be a stampede against other servers.

 

With that said. How does arenanet fix this?  

 

- They could vary the dailies more, and have more of them available each day.  

       Theorised effect: people won't be forced to do certain objectives.

-  Increase rewards for playing objective.

- Do something about mindless zergs that ignores obj to kill players. 

- Have a roulette for different objectives that give extra rewards, based on who holds what obj on the maps (separate from dailies).

 

[Xenesis.6389]

24 minutes ago, kleisthenes.6247 said:

Long time GW1 and GW2 player here, but relatively new to WvW.   Morning and midday, if I can get on then is probably when WvW is most fun. There will be half organized groups, but not over the top organized groups like in the evening (with comps, extreme preparation etc).   The big and very organized zergs is not fun, because most of the time it will just be a stampede against other servers.

 

With that said. How does arenanet fix this?  

Kill the boon ball meta(this won't happen because anet also supports this game play). The organized groups will always have the advantage with organization, but boon/support stacking on top of that makes those groups much harder to kill and require an equal group to challenge them. Unfortunately those groups also tend to avoid each other a lot, especially if they wiped once or twice, they will move maps.

 

24 minutes ago, kleisthenes.6247 said:

- They could vary the dailies more, and have more of them available each day.  

       Theorised effect: people won't be forced to do certain objectives.

Dailies of capture keep or tower has no affect on those big groups. 

 

24 minutes ago, kleisthenes.6247 said:

-  Increase rewards for playing objective.

- Do something about mindless zergs that ignores obj to kill players. 

- Have a roulette for different objectives that give extra rewards, based on who holds what obj on the maps (separate from dailies).

Playing the objective in what way? In any case those groups that crack keeps to sit in there to farm are not there for the objectives, dailies, challenge, or even wxp, they are there to easily farm bags in one spot.

 

I think adding bonus stuff to objectives would be cool, like every time something flips it gets a new bonus, which is like an extra champ bag, or a random t6 mat, or whatever possible random drop from the thousands available in the game. But that could just lead to everyone just ktrain flipping stuff for the bonuses, not actually caring to defend. Wvw and rewards, a very tricky thing to get together.

[Nymthalas.4019]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:20 PM, Deified.7520 said:

After playing this game for nearly 10 years and seeing multiple iterations of WvW and how its being played, I'm starting to think that in order to fix WvW it will probably need a top down rework. By the way some recent news talked, it made it seem like we're still a good 8-12 months out from the alliance release. Consideirng how long its been now (and going to be) to even get alliances working...I gotta say that I'm not confident it will solve the issues in WvW. And if just reworking it to start with would have been a better use of resources. So the problems I really see (and have seen for years, in some cases since launch).

 

1. Inconsistency - The gamemodes experience for players is so inconsistent mainly because it relies upon variables that are completely out of control of the player. One weekend you can have zergs on multiple maps, people playing, you're putting up some good fights, capturing stuff, etc. Then the next 3 weekends your maps are empty and you're getting decimated. One year your server can be doing really well, then next year most people quit and its dead. One night all the pugs are play together and helping the zergs fight. Next night 50% of your team can be roaming/afk so you can't stand up against some giant zerg the enemy team has.
2. 24/7 Coverage - In order to feel like you're making an impact on the map, you need to figure out a way to have 24/7 coverage. Because you can spend hours defending something, then go to sleep and you're server doesn't have 24/7 coverage. You wake up and everything was lost. It doesn't really feel all that great. Back when my current server had a bunch of "hardcore" WvWers, there was this issue where the servers we kept fighting against had entire aus or asia guilds that were playing on their server on off hours. And it turns out this was because they were getting paid to play on these servers where they had horrible ping so those servers could win the off hour fights. 
3. Objectives - nobody really cares about winning. Probably because of the above issues, so it may be a good thing as I'm sure many players would get frustrated if winning actually mattered. But many times when I play, the guilds or zergs care more about just having a fun fight rather than even caring about the objectives from a "win the game" standpoint. 
4. "Hardcore" vs "Casual" Crowd - Again this is an issue in many games. But how do you manage this relationship. You could have 15% of the playerbase who are hardcore WvWers and don't agree with anything I'm saying. Mainly because they had a bunch of WvW guilds move to their server. They only play with guilds. Etc. Then you have the other portion of the playerbase who aren't hardcore. They just hop into WvW when they feel like. Maybe they're in a PvX guild they go in with. So the issue is who do you cater to, who do you design around. I remember during the tournaments in 2014 seeing how wildly different servers played. You had 70% of the servers significantly worse experience than the rest of the servers. Where they couldn't field zergs, they couldn't fight, etc. 

 

Alliances may help the popluation issue whenever those come, but I think the inconsistent nature of the gamemode to begin with will result in most issues just reappearing. To me I think it wont go as planned. And after that happens, the developers should just bit the bullet and rework the gamemode. I think it should be like a Gw2 version of Alliance Battles of Gw1. You've got something like 25v25 or 30v30. You've got a few capture points. Siege is somehow intertwined into it. Uses the PvE gearing system and consumabmles just as it does now. It's all instanced/queue based instead of being the persistent-not-persistent world that WvW is now. You can take the WvW maps and split them up into smaller fight arenas so you've got maps for the gamemode to be played on already. To me this would be much better from a design perspective.

 

I mean all I know now is that ever week it seems like my WvW games are borderline dead. Barely able to field a zerg during the weekdays and maybe 2 zergs for a few hours on the weekend. Commanders always seem to get super frustrated as is normal in Gw2 and its large group content. And whenever these issues are brought up, everyone just says "Oh the only way to play is with a guild". If the game is at that point + the alliances + skrimishes only lasting like 1.5 hours at a time...it seems like we minus well just make the whole thing instanced. As we're already heading into that direction as the persistent design doesnt' seem to be working. Plus we haven't recieved really any updates to the mode (ignoring balance changes and new reward tracks tied to the living story) in years. I think the last major update was what, the desert borderlands? And that caused a ton of drama in itself. So its been a good 5 years since we've really seen a sufficient update to this mode. If WvW was even close to the population of open world PvE, I highly doubt the update candence would be 5+ years. So this gamemode obviously has a population issue. And I think the issues I spoke about above are a huge factor. 

 

I think the best solution would be making it a pvp mode, but that's not gonna happen. So I'm going to offer some ideas I've had over the time, and some solves problems I see posted here.

 

1. Relinks kills servers but not only because of bandwaggoning, there is also a bigger problem, with the intention of "balancing" there is sometimes linking between servers with SUPER different mentality, by that I don't mean clouding and roaming servers vs fighting server (it could affect but not as much), is placing chill servers with hardcore servers, is a way of making both server be uncomfortable because they can not play the way they like, because anet decided that the balancing on population is more important. I would say stop with that super wrong mentality. If WvW has tiers is for something, if people want to play chill let them fight against other chill players in lower tiers, and hardcore player fight other hardcore players in higher tiers, thats what tiers are for, not for mixing different playstyles and force people to play in a way they don't like.

 

2. Squads of 50 players, that's one of the biggest mistakes in the game for me squads should be 30 player tops. Might not seem like a big deal, but part of why there is much "leeching" is because of this, either we talk about pve or wvw. In pve you have this "difficult" event (triple worm, octovine, chak...) that needs people in each lane, but it usually means 50/50 squad with 10 people around in one lane, and the others asking for people, the way to fix it was nerfing the event, with 30 people squad you kind of force people to distribute, and for events that needs all the people in the same place... what is the problem of having more than one tag going together?.

   In WvW it would change everything, the meta is stale because of having 50 people squad, because the server having a full map squad (50/50 plus random people around) will have it way easier when fighting other server even if the other server has 2 squads of 30 and 20 people. And when you go with a full map you only need stab, cleanse, strips and aoe/spike damage, and with this conditions the meta is limited to a very few classes/builds. Having 30 people squads will introduce more fun as maps won't be 1 HUGE tag , it will give more room for strategy as when to fight when to take objectives, how to fight (do you want to go 2 squads vs 2 squads? 1 squad def and 1 attack?). Also 30 people squads allow huge ammounts of variety that 50 people squads doesn't, why? with 30 people you can run with the actual meta, but 15 people have a chance to fight those 30 but couldn't if they were 50. So it would make 20 people or less squads way more viable, and that opens the meta A LOT, because 20 or less groups in wvw has a lot more options for builds and playstyles.

 

3. I'm going to add a couple of things on pvp, it's absurd that in ranked you can not join with a party. So a game that encourages players to join and play together, to make meta events with a hundred players in the same map, you can not play ranked pvp with 5 friends? EVERY F**** GAME out there allows you to go ranked pvp with full party of friends (Dota, LoL, CSGO, WoW). Again as WvW has tiers, PvP has leagues, so the chill players go lower leagues and fight other chill players and hardcore players go higher tiers. But one way of killing pvp is forcing people to play alone in an mmo, is like "hey! come to gw2 we really want you to play with people and have fun" then you discover it applies only if you are not playing pvp, because if you do you are marginalized, don't get content, and you are forced to almost play alone. You want people play pvp? let people play with friends, at the beggining there will be problems because there is a low population in pvp? yes, but either you take the risk of allowing players playing pvp with friends and try to infuse some life to pvp, or just let it die slowly like is happening right now.

 Also important is why have GvG has to be something player organized? GvG HAS TO BE A PVP MODE , it should have been for a long time, in fact I think 5v5 pvp should be the normal pvp with parties and spectators (with 5 min delay)  and tournaments should be 10v10 or 15v15 or 20v20. And this would make a real reason for guilds to exist, GvG could gives guild a rating in pvp (or something like that based on won tournaments). And again I sense someone will say something like it would close the gamemode to elitist guilds, but for starters you have unranked pvp in case you want to chill, second ranked pvp has leagues so if you play chill you will go to lower leagues with other chill players and will have more fair fights because you are supposed to find less higher league players who can stomp you. For GvG tournaments I would say every guild should get a reward, although the participation reward should be much lower than the winner ofc, but hey let guilds try the tournament and get something that even if its no a super reward makes it worth their time and effort for participating in the GvG tournament.

 

4. (Related to 1 and 3) Competitive PvE vs PvP/WvW: when you talk about instanced content it's clear you kill the boss you get the reward, you don't kill it you don't get the reward, and PvE player can choose with WHO they want to play, if you want to play either chill just for fun, to improve without stress, to help other people or just hardcore you find that people in lfg, discord or guild and just make a parties with them. And it might seem stupid but allowing to choose the party you play with helps to enjoy the game, because mixing for example chill players with hardcore can make really bad situations (and yeah toxicity is both ways not only hardcore elitists can be toxic), so the best is to allow people to choose the party and people they play with so everyone play the same way.

  But when it comes to PvP / WvW things change A LOT, in PvP you are not allowed to choose who you play with so with the actual low pvp population if you are in mid leagues is really easy that you will be placed with people with a very different playstyle than yours, if i'm gonna get stomped at least let me play with people I enjoy playing with.

For WvW there is tiers, and I get the feeling Anet has this mindset of patronizing lower tier servers, like if they should not be lower tier, like its better linking them with a higher tier server, seems a good idea but it is not. The lower tier server players get stomped if they go higher tiers, so they can't fight, but when the linked servers go to lower tiers the higher tier server player start to HATE the gamemode they like to play, because they are forced out of what they like to play. The worst part is that it is not fault of the players, is fault of Anet not realizing they dont have to patronize players, and they just have to let them play, they already have a solution for that and don't realize, but tier system is there.

5. With alliances my fear is that Anet wants to make a lot of atomized alliances go together, and first organizing will be chaos, second if there was some feeling of comunity that was servers, and it will be destroyed because each relink your community will be lots of alliances you don't know about, making it even less community oriented. So I would say allow alliances to get a size to be half server pop, so you don't get 1 dominating alliance, but at the same time you can make a community out of the alliance. In the end small alliances, guilds without alliance and free agents will end up in lower tiers, but if you don't want to make a big alliance or care to join a main WvW guild most surely you are a chill player, and in that case is better that you are placed in t5 so you can play chill and do dailies without getting stomped every half minute, and hardcore players can organize hardcore fights in higher tiers.

 

Btw it might seem i defend that players of different playstyles should never be in the same party, and is completelly the opposite, I think players have to be the ones able to choose how they want to play in every moment, from chill players who want to improve (with the WvW example they would just try to join a mid tier guild to play with that alliance for some time) to hardcore players that for some reason want to relax and chill so they join lower tier guilds and play chill for some weeks. This would solve a lot of the conflicts happening between different playing styles, so it would help the "mixing" of players as they would mix with other playing styles player on their own pace, and not a forced one (which can make playing disgusting for all playing styles)

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Nymthalas.4019

[kleisthenes.6247]

9 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Kill the boon ball meta(this won't happen because anet also supports this game play). The organized groups will always have the advantage with organization, but boon/support stacking on top of that makes those groups much harder to kill and require an equal group to challenge them. Unfortunately those groups also tend to avoid each other a lot, especially if they wiped once or twice, they will move maps.

I didn't want to suggest this as a new WvW player, but now that others have said it, I think I have to agree on that point.  I don't mind zergs being strong for having prepped, but it's very riddicolous when you have the boon ball on top.  

 

9 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Playing the objective in what way? In any case those groups that crack keeps to sit in there to farm are not there for the objectives, dailies, challenge, or even wxp, they are there to easily farm bags in one spot.

 

Have chain objectives; like capturing obj in row. The more you do, the higher the reward will be.  Maybe this could lead to more aggressive obj based gameplay in WvW?

[kleisthenes.6247]

4 hours ago, Nymthalas.4019 said:

2. Squads of 50 players, that's one of the biggest mistakes in the game for me squads should be 30 player tops. Might not seem like a big deal, but part of why there is much "leeching" is because of this, either we talk about pve or wvw. In pve you have this "difficult" event (triple worm, octovine, chak...) that needs people in each lane, but it usually means 50/50 squad with 10 people around in one lane, and the others asking for people, the way to fix it was nerfing the event, with 30 people squad you kind of force people to distribute, and for events that needs all the people in the same place... what is the problem of having more than one tag going together?.

Yeah, I think that making squad size smaller in WvW could do a lot to improve it. 

[Xenesis.6389]

41 minutes ago, kleisthenes.6247 said:

Have chain objectives; like capturing obj in row. The more you do, the higher the reward will be.  Maybe this could lead to more aggressive obj based gameplay in WvW?

As I mentioned at the end of my post, this could lead to potentially degrading wvw play with everyone more focused on ktrain capping stuff for rewards, rather than playing to win(which is suppose to promote defending). This type of behavior would also still be much easier for those boon balls to just run over everything in their path, and then the defenders back capping in their wake. Both sides will get their rewards from this.

 

If we can get winning back to being the priority then it would be much better for expanded rewards. Unfortunately anet seems to think rewards come first and will fix everything going by their to do list... so who knows.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[enkidu.5937]

13 hours ago, kleisthenes.6247 said:

Long time GW1 and GW2 player here, but relatively new to WvW.   Morning and midday, if I can get on then is probably when WvW is most fun. There will be half organized groups, but not over the top organized groups like in the evening (with comps, extreme preparation etc).   The big and very organized zergs is not fun, because most of the time it will just be a stampede against other servers.

 

With that said. How does arenanet fix this? 

They try to "fix" it with alliances. Then we will have a micromanaged private alliance "meta" blob vs. a bunch of totally randoms that play the new content aka EoD non-meta builds.

 

Chooo-Chooo !  🤪

[kleisthenes.6247]

5 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

If we can get winning back to being the priority then it would be much better for expanded rewards. Unfortunately anet seems to think rewards come first and will fix everything going by their to do list... so who knows.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. 

 

2 hours ago, enkidu.5937 said:

They try to "fix" it with alliances. Then we will have a micromanaged private alliance "meta" blob vs. a bunch of totally randoms that play the new content aka EoD non-meta builds.

I guess we will see how that turns out. 

[subversiontwo.7501]

11 hours ago, Nymthalas.4019 said:

2. Squads of 50 players, that's one of the biggest mistakes in the game for me squads should be 30 player tops.

This is actually a pretty interesting suggestion (in the current climate and with the current caps) that could warrant its own thread and discussion.

[Joel.8705]

yeah i agree with many post here the biggest problem is that wvw is cake with to many ingredients in it, its needs a structure its releys on its peapole to teach new players the most efficent ways and not the system its self does nothing to encurage players to get beter. 

1. rewards should be tied to ur preformance 

2. not only ur time spent in wvw but also ur preformance should be the decidding factor in what alaince u should belong in 

3. in game voice should be a an feture ( the diffrence a non voice squad and a voice squad makes is night and day ) and there with there being no in game voice chat there is no way to seperate player that dont want to use voice from the ones that only want to use it.

4. match progress should be enhanced on prime hours im not saying that it should not be posible to play in of hours but the most fair sulution is defently that the biggest chunk of a teams points should come from the most competive hours 

[kleisthenes.6247]

1 hour ago, Joel.8705 said:

4. match progress should be enhanced on prime hours im not saying that it should not be posible to play in of hours but the most fair sulution is defently that the biggest chunk of a teams points should come from the most competive hours 

I disagree with this.  I think that it may be necessary for WvW balance that off hours has the same effect, and I don't think they should punish people who can't play during peak hours by giving them less progress and points. 

[Joel.8705]

12 minutes ago, kleisthenes.6247 said:

I disagree with this.  I think that it may be necessary for WvW balance that off hours has the same effect, and I don't think they should punish people who can't play during peak hours by giving them less progress and points. 

in the end u cant make it fair for evryone but to asume that most peapole have the time to play at night is just ridiculus or that a group can just go and ppt for a whole morning when there is no enemy there and by that mean they are the beter group and deserve to win  i want the game to be fair and by priortizing evnings from 17.00 to 22.00 then is when the most player play and that those players should not make the biggest impact its already punishing for most players that live normal lives that their impact in peak4 to 6  hours dont mean as much as 15 players at night with 12 hours of time to just farm empty maps

and as i said dont make zero impact in of hours just alot less then peak hours 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Joel.8705

[kleisthenes.6247]

1 minute ago, Joel.8705 said:

in the end u cant make it fair for evryone but to asume that most peapole have the time to play at night is just ridiculus or that a group can just go and ppt for a whole morning when there is no enemy there and by that mean they are the beter group and deserve to win  i want the game to be fair and by priortizing evnings from 17.00 to 22.00 then is when the most player play and that those players should not make the biggest impact its already punishing for most players that live normal lives that their impact in peak4 to 6  hours dont mean as much as 15 players at night with 12 hours of time to just farm empty maps

 

There are plenty of groups around at off hours. It's just that there are no super organised zergs (at least I haven't seen one). The blobs come out at prime time, so off hours offers a different playstyle. 

[Joel.8705]

7 minutes ago, kleisthenes.6247 said:

There are plenty of groups around at off hours. It's just that there are no super organised zergs (at least I haven't seen one). The blobs come out at prime time, so off hours offers a different playstyle. 

its called of hours for a reason.... im not saying that they cant get indvdual rewards like lootbags from fighting and stuff like that but that the match progress should not be only tied to time instead of activity 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Joel.8705

[Joel.8705]

11 minutes ago, kleisthenes.6247 said:

There are plenty of groups around at off hours. It's just that there are no super organised zergs (at least I haven't seen one). The blobs come out at prime time, so off hours offers a different playstyle. 

in the end it is what it is just shows what i first said a cake with to many ingridents dont rely makes anyone happy in the end beter to chose a direction a stick with beter to do one thing exlent then to try to do 10 things mediocre

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

The issue with the game mode has always been in it’s most fundamental design.

 

In World vs World, the requirement to T3 your structures is based on your camps. Every base already has two camps, and therefor one of the optimal strategies in the game is for every player to just sit in their base, and wait forever.

 

In war games, and in the real world, the idea behind resources is that: in order to win you need resources that you don’t have, that somebody else does, and you need to take it from them.

 

For example, You have wheat but need oil in order to survive… we have oil but need wheat to survive… Therefor we go to war…because if we do nothing we both die.
 

Everyone is thus forced in a way to venture outside the confines of safety in order to stay alive. WvW fundamentally does not have this. You don’t need to go anywhere in order to T3 your keeps and “win” so to speak.
 

This is why WvW feels empty during off hours. Because the will to go to war is not a necessity, when there are less players around, you have less reason to go attack someone because you realize the more optimal strategy given the number of players you have to make an impact is to just stay and sit in your base. 

[Hesione.9412]

5 hours ago, Joel.8705 said:

its called of hours for a reason.... im not saying that they cant get indvdual rewards like lootbags from fighting and stuff like that but that the match progress should not be only tied to time instead of activity 

 

That would penalise those of us who live in countries outside the USA. 

[kleisthenes.6247]

15 hours ago, Joel.8705 said:

in the end it is what it is just shows what i first said a cake with to many ingridents dont rely makes anyone happy in the end beter to chose a direction a stick with beter to do one thing exlent then to try to do 10 things mediocre

Yeah, that seems to be the conclusion that many WvW players come to. WvW doesn't need patching. It needs a re-work, a simplification. 

[Nymthalas.4019]

On 4/3/2022 at 6:53 PM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

This is why WvW feels empty during off hours. Because the will to go to war is not a necessity, when there are less players around, you have less reason to go attack someone because you realize the more optimal strategy given the number of players you have to make an impact is to just stay and sit in your base. 

 

But there is servers that doesn't fight, and as soon as other servers tag down they start playing, so its pve in wvw. And playing off hours or waiting to play when there is no one, that is not strategy, there is ppt strategy OF COURSE, but waiting enough to just play alone is not strategy and that kills the game mode, because is a massive pvp and that breaks the concept. WvW MUST be a pvp mode, like 1 hour match or something with huge penalties for leavers, and let everyone join queues, and let guilds join together and make a full map by themselves.

[Dawdler.8521]

On 4/3/2022 at 4:11 AM, Nymthalas.4019 said:

2. Squads of 50 players, that's one of the biggest mistakes in the game for me squads should be 30 player tops. Might not seem like a big deal, but part of why there is much "leeching" is because of this, either we talk about pve or wvw. In pve you have this "difficult" event (triple worm, octovine, chak...) that needs people in each lane, but it usually means 50/50 squad with 10 people around in one lane, and the others asking for people, the way to fix it was nerfing the event, with 30 people squad you kind of force people to distribute, and for events that needs all the people in the same place... what is the problem of having more than one tag going together?.

   In WvW it would change everything, the meta is stale because of having 50 people squad, because the server having a full map squad (50/50 plus random people around) will have it way easier when fighting other server even if the other server has 2 squads of 30 and 20 people. And when you go with a full map you only need stab, cleanse, strips and aoe/spike damage, and with this conditions the meta is limited to a very few classes/builds. Having 30 people squads will introduce more fun as maps won't be 1 HUGE tag , it will give more room for strategy as when to fight when to take objectives, how to fight (do you want to go 2 squads vs 2 squads? 1 squad def and 1 attack?). Also 30 people squads allow huge ammounts of variety that 50 people squads doesn't, why? with 30 people you can run with the actual meta, but 15 people have a chance to fight those 30 but couldn't if they were 50. So it would make 20 people or less squads way more viable, and that opens the meta A LOT, because 20 or less groups in wvw has a lot more options for builds and playstyles.

People where running 50+ man groups before squads existed. Just party up with 5 peeps and mark the commander. Even today people run 70+ mans (ie a full zoneblob) because people can stack on com without being in the squad.

What would you suggest to do in order to stop this happening so that your 30 man squad limit actually serve a purpose?

Nothing actually stops commanders today from running 30+20 - god knows they would be faaaaaar more effective at controlling a map if they could multi cap and defend while still being able to bring the full zerg when needed - but thats not really how herd mentality work. If the gameplay is designed so that 70 people can stand on each other for more safety like a pile of sheeps, they will.

[Nymthalas.4019]

2 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

People where running 50+ man groups before squads existed. Just party up with 5 peeps and mark the commander. Even today people run 70+ mans (ie a full zoneblob) because people can stack on com without being in the squad.

What would you suggest to do in order to stop this happening so that your 30 man squad limit actually serve a purpose?

Nothing actually stops commanders today from running 30+20 - god knows they would be faaaaaar more effective at controlling a map if they could multi cap and defend while still being able to bring the full zerg when needed - but thats not really how herd mentality work. If the gameplay is designed so that 70 people can stand on each other for more safety like a pile of sheeps, they will.

 

Usually the side with 2 tags looses, only chance is the one tag side is worse. And of course there could always be some server that will have a 30 people squad with 40 people around not doing anything useful, there is game changes that can help get better WvW fights like reducing squad size to avoid stale meta, but ofc there is people no matter what that will do things badly, even if there were lots of way to avoid like in other mmos.

And because of this and much other things I really believe WvW should be a pvp mode, you could have leagues and chill people just get in team with chill people, and hc guilds placed with hc guilds. A

[kash.9213]

On 4/3/2022 at 7:32 AM, Joel.8705 said:

yeah i agree with many post here the biggest problem is that wvw is cake with to many ingredients in it, its needs a structure its releys on its peapole to teach new players the most efficent ways and not the system its self does nothing to encurage players to get beter. 

1. rewards should be tied to ur preformance 

2. not only ur time spent in wvw but also ur preformance should be the decidding factor in what alaince u should belong in 

3. in game voice should be a an feture ( the diffrence a non voice squad and a voice squad makes is night and day ) and there with there being no in game voice chat there is no way to seperate player that dont want to use voice from the ones that only want to use it.

4. match progress should be enhanced on prime hours im not saying that it should not be posible to play in of hours but the most fair sulution is defently that the biggest chunk of a teams points should come from the most competive hours 

Not everyone can get on voice comms even if they want to. That's also a bad standard to have to be on any voice app to enjoy playing in WvW. That would mean even more strict full map blob play and not much deviation from that and likely not much of an improvement in general. Even players who don't want to be on voice comms normally get on discord because they have to if they want a slot. They'll just probably log out sooner than later because they can only take so much shrill noise. 

[Serephen.3420]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:34 AM, Joel.8705 said:

its called of hours for a reason.... im not saying that they cant get indvdual rewards like lootbags from fighting and stuff like that but that the match progress should not be only tied to time instead of activity 

 

Off hours for you is another region's prime time.