GW2 is not Ready for Steam

[Nazferatwo.1764]

I just created a new character in my veteran account to unlock those Tutorial Achievements.
I noticed that is very hard for a new player to get up to speed with features like mounts and fishing.... most of my guildies ask about this Daily, how do I unlock this and this and that.
And i have to tell them the sad truth. if you don't care about story, go ahead and unlock fishing by starting the EoD campaign to unlock fishing... which totally sucks for a new player.
Same thing with mounts... at least the raptor.

I have a concern, will Anet ever add such features to be expansions locked but not campaign locked like it is today ?
- This will be a big let down when steam players join and realize they cant get this at level two.
- Also the Trial account needs to be reworked, in my opinion its too limited. this will also be a let down for steam players.
+ The addition to Season 1 for free for everyone is a big plus.
- The steam community is very competitive, WvW and Spvp need to be looked at.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Nazferatwo.1764

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, Nazferatwo.1764 said:

I just created a new character in my veteran account to unlock those Tutorial Achievements.
I noticed that is very hard for a new player to get up to speed with features like mounts and fishing.... most of my guildies ask about this Daily, how do I unlock this and this and that.
And i have to tell them the sad truth. if you don't care about story, go ahead and unlock fishing by starting the EoD campaign to unlock fishing... which totally sucks for a new player.
Same thing with mounts... at least the raptor.

I have a concern, will Anet ever add such features to be expansions locked but not campaign locked like it is today ?
- This will be a big let down when steam players join and realize they cant get this at level two.
- Also the Trial account needs to be reworked, in my opinion its too limited. this will also be a let down for steam players.
+ The addition to Season 1 for free for everyone is a big plus.
- The steam community is very competitive, WvW and Spvp need to be looked at.

I completly agree with you about a better trial/tutorial, specially to endgame content, also in looking more to PvP and WvW.

But if you basically give for free mounts, fishing, gliding etc... whats the point of buying the expansions? if you dont care about story, just elite specs? i dont know how that will impact the earnings, but not good i guess.

They maybe could add a new mount to core game that its not the best, but better than going walking.

[aspirine.6852]

New players should be directed to do the base game first. Not to be bothered with fishing or mounts just yet.  Is this really different from other mmos , are there mmos where you can unlock everything on the first day?

[cheri.6941]

25 minutes ago, aspirine.6852 said:

New players should be directed to do the base game first. Not to be bothered with fishing or mounts just yet.  Is this really different from other mmos , are there mmos where you can unlock everything on the first day?

while this should be what happens the average consumer in this market wants the endgame stuff ASAP the moment they see other players with it in game or on youtube especially with stuff like fishing or mounts in other games these are obtained very early on where in gw2 it's not even late game it's end game and two or three expansions in by the time you get them many new players learn that and jump ship it's a lot less the games fault and more the i want it now mentality a lot of new players have which was put in their heads by other games but the truth is if gw2 doesnt bend over for them they will continue to leave personally i fricking hate dealing with new players cause so many will just complain when you tell them to play the game and not expect everything they want to be handed over on a silver platter so the current system making them leave early is good as it lowers the chance ill have to witness one existing in the game but i understand that user counts and player retention are very important from a business side so i would support them giving new players a mile instead of the current inch but like whatever yknow they will prolly buy a skyscale skin for $20 then wonder why the mount tab wont let them use it only to RQ when somebody informs them those pop ups they closed over and over when buying it were telling them they need to own the mount first lol this whole post just comes off as garbage so im gonna stop now and go back and delete my line breaks and punctuation because if im gonna make a horrible post on the internet might  aswell make it read like an atrocity edit: missed a few commas

Edited March 27, 2022 by cheri.6941
missed a few commas

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If these 'new players' went to End of Dragons for fishing, they can unlock Raptor and Springer there, as well.   And take advantage of the tutorial events while there.  If, of course, they have purchased that expansion. 

Not sure what are campaigns (vs. expansions) in Guild Wars 2.

[mythical.6315]

10 hours ago, Nazferatwo.1764 said:

I just created a new character in my veteran account to unlock those Tutorial Achievements.
I noticed that is very hard for a new player to get up to speed with features like mounts and fishing.... most of my guildies ask about this Daily, how do I unlock this and this and that.
And i have to tell them the sad truth. if you don't care about story, go ahead and unlock fishing by starting the EoD campaign to unlock fishing... which totally sucks for a new player.
Same thing with mounts... at least the raptor.

I have a concern, will Anet ever add such features to be expansions locked but not campaign locked like it is today ?
- This will be a big let down when steam players join and realize they cant get this at level two.
- Also the Trial account needs to be reworked, in my opinion its too limited. this will also be a let down for steam players.
+ The addition to Season 1 for free for everyone is a big plus.
- The steam community is very competitive, WvW and Spvp need to be looked at.

 

Other games have features locked behind their story and progression in the game.  This isn't something new to Steam users.

[Ruisen.9471]

Core GW2 maps just wasn't designed for mounts, I think it would be a bad idea to allow mount unlock at level 2.   

There's no reason why you can't just start fishing at level 2 so long as you have the EoD expansion though,

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Danikat.8537]

As other people have said it's normal to have to play a game to unlock all the abilities, this isn't something which is going to confuse Steam players. (I know it's never intended this way but it sometimes feels like there's a weird form of elitism towards Steam gamers on this forum, like they're all very inexperienced, casual players who need a lot of hand-holding and special accomodations to be able to get into a new game.)

Even if their thinking is "my last MMO or RPG gave me a mount at level 10, therefore this one should too" I'd argue that's an important lesson for them to learn early on: MMOs and RPGs are not all the same. You should not go into a new game trying to play it just like your last one or you're going to cause yourself a lot of unnecessary problems.

And if they really can't stand the thought of playing without mounts and fishing they'll get a level 80 boost when they buy EoD so they can go ahead and unlock it early if they want to.

[ArchonWing.9480]

15 hours ago, Nazferatwo.1764 said:

The steam community is very competitive

 

15 hours ago, Nazferatwo.1764 said:

This will be a big let down when steam players join and realize they cant get this at level two.

Uhh....

Also if Gw2 were the new game on the block that would make sense, but the core player base is already established and alienating them would be silly.

Edited March 28, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Boh.4568]

I don't understand this thread, are Steam players a protected category of mentally challenged people that need to have everything unlocked at level 1 in order to enjoy a game?

[mythical.6315]

It’s just people using the Steam release to get what they want. 

[Hollowhisper.1093]

So what's the story with Steam? Do they have special requirements for their games on the store?

[mindcircus.1506]

22 hours ago, Nazferatwo.1764 said:

I just created a new character in my veteran account to unlock those Tutorial Achievements.
I noticed that is very hard for a new player to get up to speed with features like mounts and fishing.... most of my guildies ask about this Daily, how do I unlock this and this and that.
And i have to tell them the sad truth. if you don't care about story, go ahead and unlock fishing by starting the EoD campaign to unlock fishing... which totally sucks for a new player.
Same thing with mounts... at least the raptor.

I have a concern, will Anet ever add such features to be expansions locked but not campaign locked like it is today ?
- This will be a big let down when steam players join and realize they cant get this at level two.
- Also the Trial account needs to be reworked, in my opinion its too limited. this will also be a let down for steam players.
+ The addition to Season 1 for free for everyone is a big plus.
- The steam community is very competitive, WvW and Spvp need to be looked at.

These "GAME WILL FAIL ON STEAM BECAUSE MY PERSONAL PET PEEVE IS NOT ADDRESSED" threads are never going to get old.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

It will fine. Steam people don't like Drama. Anet definitely have marketing team who knows what they are doing. At least, better than forum warrior here.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

1 hour ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

These "GAME WILL FAIL ON STEAM BECAUSE MY PERSONAL PET PEEVE IS NOT ADDRESSED" threads are never going to get old.

They are old, to me, already.

[VPK.1796]

They'll have to polish the core tyria experience for new players or else the steam launch can RIP  🙋🏻‍♀️

[Kichwas.7152]

I'm no longer convinced ANY game is ready for Steam...

 

It seems like it's just a place for games to get review bombed and to have their concurrency numbers micro-analyzed by people looking for either over promote or drag it down.

 

Look at New World, and now Lost Ark.

Both launched on Steam with massive numbers and were immediately declared 'the best MMO ever' - setting too high of expectations. And when the numbers started to fall, the obsessive watching of the fall only accelerates it and people try not to be the last rat off the ship.

That cycle helped kill New World, and it is just beginning to impact Lost Ark.

A month before New World there was another Korean MMO, Bless Unleashed; that was trying it's third attempt to launch under yet another new name... and this time it did it, with massive player numbers, but what did Steam reveal - that at the end of the first month or two when people hit level cap, they moved on. and so the game was more or less killed off by folks watching Steam numbers. Without Steam, it's more likely population would have lowered as people waited for the next content drop, then resumed.

- The same thing happened to Phantasy Star Online's reboot. The game was actually doing better when it was it was being put out through the Microsoft Store with a buggy launcher that needed someone's personal github hack to launch correctly. Once it got on Steam and was easy to get to, it's numbers were also easy to comment on, and at the first content slow-down, it tanked.

 

Steam makes all the numbers more 'extreme' - you can't be doing OK or poorly, you're either a mega-hit or a fiasco. And 20 YouTube channels will pop up to explain it in minute-by-minute detail.

There was a time when players would give a game time to improve. But with Steam, you've got about 1 second past someone seeing it to have your fix in.

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Kichwas.7152

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, Kichwas.7152 said:

I'm no longer convinced ANY game is ready for Steam...

 

It seems like it's just a place for games to get review bombed and to have their concurrency numbers micro-analyzed by people looking for either over promote or drag it down.

 

Look at New World, and now Lost Ark.

Both launched on Steam with massive numbers and were immediately declared 'the best MMO ever' - setting too high of expectations. And when the numbers started to fall, the obsessive watching of the fall only accelerates it and people try not to be the last rat off the ship.

 

Lets be honest, steam is gonna get tons of people interested in Gw2 at start, specially if they do good, and thats it. Your not gonna see the crazy numbers of other new mmos (that are probably only steam exclusive), actually most people will still play by the default launcher, so those numbers will be insignifcant.

[Danikat.8537]

I'm not expecting large numbers on Steam either. Elder Scrolls Online only has a minority of it's PC players on Steam and it launched there just a few years after the game first released. GW2 is almost 10 years old and in my experience it's relatively rare to meet people who are interested in MMOs and don't know it exists, so I can't imagine there's huge numbers of people who simply don't know about it.

I know there are some people who refuse to play PC games which aren't on Steam, and I assume that's who Anet are targeting, but I don't think Steam is ever going to be a big enough share of the playerbase to be representative of the whole.

(More generally I also agree that people fixate on Steam player numbers too much. It even happens with single-player games where it really does not matter if anyone else is playing at the same time you are and it's entirely normal for people to finish a game in a month or two and move on.)

[mindcircus.1506]

1 hour ago, Kichwas.7152 said:

Both launched on Steam with massive numbers and were immediately declared 'the best MMO ever' - setting too high of expectations. And when the numbers started to fall, the obsessive watching of the fall only accelerates it and people try not to be the last rat off the ship.

New World launched in an incomplete buggy and completely exploitable state.
Are "expectations" to blame for it's speedy fall from grace?
Or can we lay blame on developers who released game where I could render myself invulnerable by running in windowed and giving the window's top bar focus? or where I could obscure another players UI by sending them common HTML code?

Lost Art released with a character progression path that didn't include the necessary ingame drops to push forward without whaling to the tune of thousands of dollars.
Are expectations to blame for it's speedy decline?
Or can we blame AGS for unabashedly milking players, cutting off people who didn't swipe from content, and putting BDO to shame for P2W?

At what point do the developers become accountable for their product?

The fall from grace of both titles you mentioned have very little to do with rats abandoning ship, and more to do with a single company releasing substandard and exploitative games and laughing all the way to the bank as they did it.

[Kichwas.7152]

1 hour ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

The fall from grace of both titles you mentioned have very little to do with rats abandoning ship, and more to do with a single company releasing substandard and exploitative games and laughing all the way to the bank as they did it.

 

Yeah I get that. The problem I see is that Steam shortens the time you have to address issues by dramatic amounts.

 

Phantasy Star Online - New Genesis is probably the ideal example for this, as is Bless Unleashed.

Both of these games launched in 'great shape' for fans of their style of game and gameplay (not so much me). They took off quickly with a lot of people playing them - a lot by the standards for smaller MMOs.

 

Their core issue was a lack of a content update. The 'next drop of stuff' patch cycle was about as far out as is typical for many an MMO... but on Steam you've got no time. As soon as the 30-day mark hit for both of these there were people review bombing them for not having the next update out yet.

 

That's an issue GW2 has some history with - slow content updates. And on Steam you're expected to have faster than normal updates.

 

As long as the Steam community remains the noted minority, they won't have much major impact - but you can sure streamers and YouTubers will make click bait out of it.

 

[Jajo.1428]

17 hours ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

Core GW2 maps just wasn't designed for mounts, I think it would be a bad idea to allow mount unlock at level 2.   

There's no reason why you can't just start fishing at level 2 so long as you have the EoD expansion though,

I can see 2 reasons, why currently implemented fishing at level 2 wouldn't work:

• Fishing hole difficulty has no relation to zone difficulty.
• Fishing starts at uselessly low power and is often impossible without mastery and gear.

[mythical.6315]

Fishing is significantly more difficult outside of Cantha so I’m sure it wouldn’t go over well if it became unlocked at level 2. 

[mindcircus.1506]

10 minutes ago, Kichwas.7152 said:

Phantasy Star Online - New Genesis is probably the ideal example for this, as is Bless Unleashed.

I won't comment on PSO I know little about it.
Bless Unleashed though...?

I'm pretty surprised anyone would attempt to position this game's failure as the result of a fickle player base ready to jump ship on games due to the perception issues.
Let's forget the dumpster fire that was Bless Online... sure. Should we fault the tens of thousands of players who felt burned by calling it a expectation issue?
Bless Unleashed released with a static boring world, clunky combat, and felt like a chore to play.
It didn't lose players due to some kind of issue outside itself. It was a rehash of an existing game, presented multiple times across multiple platforms in order to continually milk a portion of the MMO playerbase that is always looking for the new dope.
Bless is the very essence of a cash grab, that is continually recycling itself under new publishers to cash in on the rush, of new players with a "big launch".

That's three of the four games on your list that were not issue of "rats leaving a sinking ship" but of developer and publisher malfeasance/misteps.
It's not the pattern you are trying to claim it is.

[Kichwas.7152]

10 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

I won't comment on PSO I know little about it.
Bless Unleashed though...?

I'm pretty surprised anyone would attempt to position this game's failure as the result of a fickle player base ready to jump ship on games due to the perception issues.
Let's forget the dumpster fire that was Bless Online... sure. Should we fault the tens of thousands of players who felt burned by calling it a expectation issue?

 

Yes, the first few Bless games were absolute disasters. Bless Unleashed came out and did shockingly well and got "good press" from fans of the playstyle. It looked to be the "they finally did it right" game for that franchise. For a very brief moment of about a month and a half it had very strong player concurrency, and a pile of reviewers expressing shock that the Bless team finally did it right.

Then people got to max level and there was no content drop, so they review bombed and left.

Given more time to get to their patch cycle going, things could have been different. Games that used to get a half year or more time to get to that first patch now get a month or less.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Kichwas.7152