Dragon's End Meta is Garbage

[Astralporing.1957]

54 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This is incorrect. You must have missed all the complaints about basic mechanics not being explained.

In the end, the truly problematic mechanics are not problematic due to not being explained. They are being problematic because they impact dps, and because they are random and can fail a perfectly good (up to that point) run.

The other key "mechanic" however is just plain dps. And there's nothing in this game that teaches players how to improve it.

[fsabe.6593]

I don't understand how anyone can defend this design:
- 2h time investment that can fail at any time and not yield proper partial rewards
- within 5 minutes of the march south you can tell if the meta is going to fail, and might as well stop

12 attempts and counting, all failures.

To my newbie self, Drizzlewood Coast is an amazing example of partial rewards.
 

Edited March 30, 2022 by fsabe.6593
formatting

[Erise.5614]

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Could it be because most of the times when we try people just say "I want to play my way" or even call those who want to teach others toxic? 

Always remember. This is an entertainment product they paid for. They are having a good time. You want them to do something different. If it's not a better time they will just avoid it. And if you try to sell them harder on it. Just push them into it. Then the only thing you get is spite. 

A lot of what's happening really is negative. A bad experience for quite a lot of people. Even if meant in a helpful way.

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Whenever something challenging is introduced you just see salt that it's difficult and it shouldn't be. This is one of those threads. 

I guess the turtle wasn't a good enough reason to learn how to do a Strike. 

No reward ever will get people to do something they don't wanna do.

Only a solid progression path and enjoyable overall experience can do that. And none of the approaches so far have been remotely passable at that. They create obstacles, they create rewards and tell players to figure out one of the most complex MMO combat systems on their own.

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

What do you consider the right amount of challenge? Mashing 1 while watching a movie on a second screen? Because so far it seems like that's your idea of the right amount of challenge for players.

The right amount of challenge is, first of all. Offering that in some areas. The lamp map completion is actually genius in that regard. A lot of the new achievements and content are really solid for that.

And then to actually ramp up difficulty you create a smooth path from knowing nothing towards the content you know and like as end game content.

For example. Start with something Like the Aetherblade Hideout strike. We have the story version, but that one is missing several mechanics. The story version is hard requiring CC which is good. And to no ones surprise there's no complaints about that. 

But the next step has the instadeath circles which is not so nice. And it takes a bit too long for a very first introduction into strikes.

Cut the overall duration of the fight in half. Make sure it's always very easy to pick up downed players (e.g. boss attacks deal no damage during down state). Call it strike easy mode and we are in business. 
And then keep escalating difficulty with every mission. Each one can have one gimmick needs to reinforce previous lessons and add a very easy, very forgiving version of a new mechanic. 

This is the standard model used by game design to teach players the game in an entertaining way. Which Guild Wars has never used. 

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You fail Greens on VG, people step into Oil on Deimos, someone stands in the group with a number on Li, here are some essential stuff failed, but the squad isn't wiped.
Failing mechanics doesn't get you thrown out of Raids. 

I mean. Basically no one does greens. Oil usually wipes at least you if not your party. Forcing an increasingly disgruntled reset, if not leaves without saying anything in chat. Numbers on Li are fine, assuming he couldn't kill you seconds later with the dash. That's a bit bs. A recovery mechanic that requires you to position right ahead of time or wipe seconds later is a bit pointless. 

But the key point is. Those raid mechanics are one off gimmicks that are extremely punishing. To not just you but the entire team. 

When really, just being able to see all information is a huge amount of necessary skill. To stop focusing on skill cooldowns / looking at your keyboard you need some time. To then simultaneously dodge and use your character right takes some time. To then also be aware of the edges of your screen or focusing on one of the dozens of overlapping sounds takes a lot of familiarity with the gameplay and content. If you still have to think about anything you're doing, you are not ready for this kind of content. 

That's what the progression loop I mentioned solves. It provides plenty of time to familiarize yourself with mechanics. Get a better grasp on your role within the team. You can repeat the same content a few times until you are comfortable and then move on at your own pace. Within or without a guild. 

And also. Trying to understand how much DPS you do is pathetic. There is no legitimate feedback for that. You have 0 chance to reasonably judge that yourself. After a patch I couldn't tell you whether I deal 8k or 20k. Expecting good DPS output with that kind of feedback is inherently unreasonable. It's even worse for boon supports. The state of the game is really not valid for teaching players what they are doing which is like failing at step 0. Not just isn't it teaching how to improve but players aren't even aware how bad things are. The game never suggests there could be a problem. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Erise.5614

[SinisterSlay.6973]

25 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

In the end, the truly problematic mechanics are not problematic due to not being explained. They are being problematic because they impact dps, and because they are random and can fail a perfectly good (up to that point) run.

The other key "mechanic" however is just plain dps. And there's nothing in this game that teaches players how to improve it.

So in the training story step. Add one for beating a robot by a certain time limit. The limit works out to 7k dps.  When the player fails, the robot tells them to ask around for a build strategy, maybe ask their Guild. Maybe that finally makes players play attention to builds.

Edited March 30, 2022 by SinisterSlay.6973

[Gibson.4036]

Currently 28.9% of GW2Efficiency linked accounts have gotten their fishing rod, which is one of the earliest achievements I could think of to indicate how many of those accounts purchased EoD. 11.2% of GW2Efficiency accounts have had at least one successful run of the DE meta.

So about 39% of GW2Efficiency linked accounts that have EOD have been able to be part of a sucessful DE run.

I know GW2Efficiency isn't representative of the entire player base. If I had to guess, though, it would lean more toward serious players than the average over the whole population.

So far, it doesn't look like ArenaNet has reached their goal of having this meta be something most of the player base has successfuly done. It is, of course, too early to see the impact of yesterday's patch, though.

[Erise.5614]

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You get a sound cue of them being active and an orange border on your screen.

To be fair. It took me a long time until everything else was requiring so little attention of me that I could finally notice the audio cue or the border of the screen.

When you have not internalized all the skill rotations, your enemies attacks, how you should position yourself, etc. 

Then your attention is just elsewhere. With these chrono fields blasting out the speakers the audio cue often remains in the background. You need to know exactly what to listen for.

And  your visual focus and attention too is gonna be on your skills or your character. Not on the edge of the screen. It's the same if people say one just has to read the chat. There's a lot going on and it takes a fair amount of skill to deal with everything while also taking time to read chat.

And on another note, lots of boss mechanics actually stop appearing on low graphics settings in certain situations. Seen it in basically every meta and a fair amount of instanced content where there's a significant number of ads. From Soo Won to raids. Indicators sometimes do not show up at all. Which just makes the above issue worse. As players have to wonder whether they overlooked something or what just happened.

18 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

So in the training story step. Add one for beating a robot by a certain time limit. The limit works out to 7k dps.  When the player fails, the robot tells them to ask around for a build strategy, maybe ask their Guild. Maybe that finally makes players play attention to builds.

Balance it around something more achievable. Like 5k. Maybe 6k. Have a very dominant DPS meter. Displayed as a progress bar filling up. None of those hidden in raids, shows up after a minute of hitting in chat.

Offer yellow gear of any stats temporarily. Maybe even award the set you end up with. And it would be a fantastic learning environment that could encourage a lot more theory crafting and offer inexperienced players a way to experiment and truly appreciate that part of the game.

Just so much yes to this idea. Add a DPS check, dress it up nicely. Make it easy to improve and it could help move the overall community closer together in terms of average DPS output. And reduce issues like DE is facing. 

At least there would have been a serious attempt at teaching players about it. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Nico.9361]

48 minutes ago, fsabe.6593 said:

I don't understand how anyone can defend this design:
- 2h time investment that can fail at any time and not yield proper partial rewards

Why would any1 do the 2h set-up for the event though? You can get 10 stack for the events very easy now. In some cases you get 2 per event and you get a bunch more for the pre (escorts). This should help shorten the time.  I think that's something that came with the latest patch.
Outside of that, less than 30 mins for escorts and about 30 mins for the boss.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

24 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Always remember. This is an entertainment product they paid for. They are having a good time. You want them to do something different. If it's not a better time they will just avoid it. And if you try to sell them harder on it. Just push them into it. Then the only thing you get is spite. 

It would be better if people not liking certain contet would simply avoid it instead of the repeated complaints about it, Kaineng is perfect example on that.

28 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

No reward ever will get people to do something they don't wanna do.

The problem isn't people not wanting to do something, it's them wanting the rewards for it, despite not doing it. 

29 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

The right amount of challenge is, first of all. Offering that in some areas. The lamp map completion is actually genius in that regard. A lot of the new achievements and content are really solid for that.

And then to actually ramp up difficulty you create a smooth path from knowing nothing towards the content you know and like as end game content.

Seitung Monastery is explaining CC, dodging, combo fields to players. The metas utilize them one by one, the story requires you to combo. Many enemies have CC bars. 

31 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

For example. Start with something Like the Aetherblade Hideout strike. We have the story version, but that one is missing several mechanics. The story version is hard requiring CC which is good. And to no ones surprise there's no complaints about that. 

Going on about how this or that is good about this and that Strike is pointless when you see the amount of threads complaining about Strikes with people claiming that they will leave the game because it caters too much to the hardcore players.

33 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

But the next step has the instadeath circles which is not so nice. And it takes a bit too long for a very first introduction into strikes.

That's present in the story version too. The majority of Aetherblade Hideout is the story instance scaled up to 10 players.

34 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Cut the overall duration of the fight in half. Make sure it's always very easy to pick up downed players (e.g. boss attacks deal no damage during down state).

The only place where downed people can easily die is Kaineng Overlook.

36 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Call it strike easy mode and we are in business. 

Strike easy mode is the story. What rewards would you give the easy mode? You can't really go lower on the rewards as they are abysmal already.

37 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

And then keep escalating difficulty with every mission. Each one can have one gimmick needs to reinforce previous lessons and add a very easy, very forgiving version of a new mechanic. 

If you want to add a very easy and forgiving version of a new mechanic you might as well not even add it as it would be pointless. Strikes already have a "training mode", the story version.

40 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

I mean. Basically no one does greens. Oil usually wipes at least you if not your party. Forcing an increasingly disgruntled reset, if not leaves without saying anything in chat. Numbers on Li are fine, assuming he couldn't kill you seconds later with the dash. That's a bit bs. A recovery mechanic that requires you to position right ahead of time or wipe seconds later is a bit pointless. 

You brought up that Raid mechanics are "must be done perfectly or fail", I brought up examples of mechanics that won't wipe even if you fail them. 
If Oil is expanding it's not hard to avoid, you can even dodge inside the oil to not take damage for a short time.
We can add the orbs on Q2 as well, it hurts when it's dropped, can even down you, but you can easily recover, or KC's orb collection, even if you let him gather a lot and get downed you can still recover from there with ease.

44 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

But the key point is. Those raid mechanics are one off gimmicks that are extremely punishing. To not just you but the entire team. 

But there are no Raid mechanics in the meta, there is no instant wipe, there is no mechanic one person can mess up and kill people. 
Considering Raids are the top of instanced content you kind of expect mechanics to be punishing.

46 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

When really, just being able to see all information is a huge amount of necessary skill. To stop focusing on skill cooldowns / looking at your keyboard you need some time. To then simultaneously dodge and use your character right takes some time. To then also be aware of the edges of your screen or focusing on one of the dozens of overlapping sounds takes a lot of familiarity with the gameplay and content. If you still have to think about anything you're doing, you are not ready for this kind of content. 

That's what the progression loop I mentioned solves. It provides plenty of time to familiarize yourself with mechanics. Get a better grasp on your role within the team. You can repeat the same content a few times until you are comfortable and then move on at your own pace. Within or without a guild. 

And as I said, you don't get thrown out of Raids for failing a mechanic once or twice. If you keep failing a mechanic then yes, you are thrown out.
But a pug Raid isn't exactly the place to learn your rotation or the boss or even your profession. If you do that don't expect everyone to be understanding. 

 

[Mike D.3047]

At the very least the META really needs some sort of participation reward(s). It almost feels like spending 1 hour fishing is more worth of your time than this is. I really don't get what happened. Dragonstorm is awesome but this is just meh at best

[Bojjang.1052]

I dislike the event.

 

I cleared it 4 times. and we just went in without any pre event BUT we were on discord and did callouts.

 

Failed it twice after that in pug. The first time I just went in and the team was not that good.

The second time I did all the pre pre events got me dmg up to 10 Stacks, then the pre event before the boss and then the boss. We were a 50 people party all doing pre events and having 9/10 stacks. We failed. What annoyed me most is when she gets low she starts doing her sweeping attack where u can't hit her and the clock is just running.

 

So yes, screw this event. If a random team on discord can slay without buff, but i can't complete the event even when I invested time to get the buffs.... yea, I think people will just call it a day and do something else.

 

PS: I enjoy raiding.

[Gibson.4036]

23 minutes ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

Why would any1 do the 2h set-up for the event though? You can get 10 stack for the events very easy now. In some cases you get 2 per event and you get a bunch more for the pre (escorts). This should help shorten the time.  I think that's something that came with the latest patch.
Outside of that, less than 30 mins for escorts and about 30 mins for the boss.

Except you're going to want to get in at reset, or risk an empty/underperforming map, right? So now you can AFK for a good chunk of the preparation if you really want to, but you'll still need to be in zone.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

6 minutes ago, Mike D.3047 said:

At the very least the META really needs some sort of participation reward(s). It almost feels like spending 1 hour fishing is more worth of your time than this is. I really don't get what happened. Dragonstorm is awesome but this is just meh at best

This is a fair complaint: the rewards.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

In the end, the truly problematic mechanics are not problematic due to not being explained. They are being problematic because they impact dps, and because they are random and can fail a perfectly good (up to that point) run.

Yes, but you understand how the post I've responded to above did nothing to respond to what I previously said?

And of course the mechanics influence the dps. Outside of "all of you instantly fail the whole event/encounter", that's the inherent point of all of them. Otherwise they'd mostly be just fully ignorable as they'd impact, well, nothing.

 

And hey, if now "the trully problematic mechanics" are something else than the mechanics re-explained at eod... then I guess we're moving forward already, since you know (and I know you do, since we've been in the threads talking about it pre-eod). So, even if slowly, apparently the general community is making progress faster than for the past... how many years? 6? And that's also what I said in my initial post: if the last meta event of the expansion requires those mechanics to be used, apparently people will start using them. It doesn't go against anything that this expansion did from the very first zone. And that's exactly what I was saying at the start of this comment chain ~4 posts earlier: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/112337-dragons-end-meta-is-garbage/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-1621758

Quote

The other key "mechanic" however is just plain dps. And there's nothing in this game that teaches players how to improve it.

What do you mean there's nothing in this game that teaches players how to improve it? 🤨 The game explains to the player "what does what" in terms of dealing damage right from the start (or almost?) of the leveling process. All it takes is being able to read pop-ups and trait/skill/stat descriptions (pretty sure in case of stats, it's at least partially covered by "pop-ups" too). Again, if someone doesn't understand that more damage = things die faster, then that's not a problem with the game or tutorials, but rather with absolutely basic understanding of numbers.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

7 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Except you're going to want to get in at reset, or risk an empty/underperforming map, right? So now you can AFK for a good chunk of the preparation if you really want to, but you'll still need to be in zone.

There are squads on LFG you can join so you won't risk the randomness of empty and underperforming maps.

[Gibson.4036]

19 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

There are squads on LFG you can join so you won't risk the randomness of empty and underperforming maps.

 

So far I've seen squads filling up minutes into reset. Though I guess that was before the changes. So maybe more people are making squads closer to the start of the escorts now?

Edited March 30, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Sobx.1758]

40 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Except you're going to want to get in at reset, or risk an empty/underperforming map, right? So now you can AFK for a good chunk of the preparation if you really want to, but you'll still need to be in zone.

I get what you're saying, except if getting in "at reset" is no longer needed, chances are pretty high that the squad leaders will be fully aware of it and they won't feel the need to afk in those instances longer than needed either.

So you won't exactly join more empty/bad instances (might take a day or a few to catch up with the news though), since everyone is able to run the meta in a shorter time.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[TigStripe.2379]

35 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

There are squads on LFG you can join so you won't risk the randomness of empty and underperforming maps.

This depends. A lot.

The past few days, I've tried getting into LFG groups several times each day, and either the map is full across every single LFG group, or there's just no one on LFG as the meta approaches (this happens more at night, but it's no less frustrating). Several times, I just gave up trying to get into a populated map and went to do something else.

 

I keeping reading the discourse on this meta and just shake my head. So many people are approaching it as "get good at the game" when, in my experience, you have everything going right in the OW - commanders doing call outs, food and buff distribution, even some subgroup manipulations in more "organized" pug maps - and the final fight is never even close. It's not just a fail, it's a tragic fail. I've now done the meta 8 times, failing each one at the final fight, and only once among those did the group manage to make it past the second multi-boss phase of the fight. Most of the time, it ends before that phase, or right as it starts.

This isn't a matter of "just have map buffs" because there's still at least 20% health on Soo-Won, and you still have to take out the mini-bosses. That's a considerable chunk of damage. And while I know a legendary weapon or trinket doesn't equate to high skill level, enough of the people participating have them that you have to believe that at least SOME of them know halfway what they're doing.

The fight is not tuned well, but I don't blame the timer or her health. I blame the lack of uptime of being able to target the boss versus the amount of time lost running around for mechanics. The fact that I've seen the second boss phase of this fight only 3 out of 8 times indicates that the fight is stacked against even above average prepared overworld groups. If it weren't, I'd at least have some amount of hope of finishing the fight 50% of the time. As it stands, I do not.

At this point, I go into the meta expecting it to fail regardless of commander presence and preparations, and that's not evidence of a well-tuned experience.

Edit: Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I'm all for participation rewards upon fail. Nothing extravagant. But like...some unidentifieds or something. It feels *awful* playing as hard as you can for half an hour and walking away with literally nothing on TOP of the feeling of failure.

Edited March 30, 2022 by TigStripe.2379

[Mahou.3924]

After a long break, the need to relearn how to play medicore again and my ususal half-baked equipped characters, I did the event by pure chance today. I had the time and thought why not. It failed in the end, but whatever. Funnily, I still got the True Ending achievement, so I probably won't visit the event ever again.

The pre-event hopping is boring and the ususal clutter fiesta. The Suu-Won fight was half of the time a terrible slow-motion stutter show, followed by more visual clutter, even though I managed to see the more obvious orange aoe markers. So yeah, I probably won't miss it.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

8 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

Why should the meta be in the open world if it requires a guild to complete? 

Why isn't it a guild mission, clearly portraying that you are expected to join a guild and finish it with a specific, prepared group? 

The game is literally called "Guild" wars 2. Its a MMORPG not a single player game. 

[TigStripe.2379]

13 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

The game is literally called "Guild" wars 2. Its a MMORPG not a single player game. 

Bad take.

If this game had a history of encouraging and enforcing multiplayer content, I would agree with this.

In overworld content, it does not.

It's marketed as one of the single most casual experiences in the genre. It historically panders to people who only want to play the game once and go do other stuff for a while.

[Gibson.4036]

25 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Its a MMORPG not a single player game. 

False dichotomy.

[Raizel.8175]

Sometimes, reading the forums, I have to ask myself how people exist in real life. Are they also not using those basic soft skills they refuse to use in game? Stuff like basic socialization - even if it's passively joining a squad - is apparently "intimidating" and "scary" for some people. Expecting people to read what their stats and traits do is apparently asking for too much. Basic game mechanics (don't stand in the bad, CC etc.) that have been in the game for years and have been used in previous story episodes is apparently too overwhelming. Does the game need to hold their hand even when they need to go to the toilet? In all honesty, this probably isn't an issue of the game expecting too much from its players, but rather certain players being utterly unwilling to properly interact with the game, is it? The game doesn't have to explain everything and the game also doesn't have to hold its players hands. Some people would feel their intelligence insulted if the game did.

After Arena Net adjusted the event, I always manage to succeed in that event as long as I join squads that also look for support classes. The changes made are sufficient. I also don't understand complaints about the events length. Dragon's Stand also took around 1,5h before the game suffered some massive powercreep through PoF/EoD-specializations and new stat combinations. Dragon's Stand also failed if people were too unwilling to contribute. Seems like those times are long forgotten thanks to powercreep.

What do you want the game to look like in the future? Like some braindead loot-fiesta where every event consists of hitting immobile and unresponsive objects like Dragonfall? In all honesty, the game is in dire need of difficulty variety and progression - especially in open world content. You can only stretch the playerbase that far - you can't just make new map after new map with the same content over and over again.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

17 minutes ago, TigStripe.2379 said:

If this game had a history of encouraging and enforcing multiplayer content, I would agree with this.

In overworld content, it does not.

The overworld content is chalk full of metas based around playing with other people, as well as one off events that require a group of people to do, and are labeled as such.

[TigStripe.2379]

3 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Sometimes, reading the forums, I have to ask myself how people exist in real life. Are they also not using those basic soft skills they refuse to use in game? Stuff like basic socialization - even if it's passively joining a squad - is apparently "intimidating" and "scary" for some people. Expecting people to read what their stats and traits do is apparently asking for too much. Basic game mechanics (don't stand in the bad, CC etc.) that have been in the game for years and have been used in previous story episodes is apparently too overwhelming. Does the game need to hold their hand even when they need to go to the toilet? In all honesty, this probably isn't an issue of the game expecting too much from its players, but rather certain players being utterly unwilling to properly interact with the game, is it? The game doesn't have to explain everything and the game also doesn't have to hold its players hands. Some people would feel their intelligence insulted if the game did.

After Arena Net adjusted the event, I always manage to succeed in that event as long as I join squads that also look for support classes. The changes made are sufficient. I also don't understand complaints about the events length. Dragon's Stand also took around 1,5h before the game suffered some massive powercreep through PoF/EoD-specializations and new stat combinations. Dragon's Stand also failed if people were too unwilling to contribute. Seems like those times are long forgotten thanks to powercreep.

What do you want the game to look like in the future? Like some braindead loot-fiesta where every event consists of hitting immobile and unresponsive objects like Dragonfall? In all honesty, the game is in dire need of difficulty variety and progression - especially in open world content. You can only stretch the playerbase that far - you can't just make new map after new map with the same content over and over again.

 

It is exceedingly rude to assume people aren't reading abilities or doing more than "stand around pressing 1" as has been stated so many time sin these discussions. Also, don't diminish people's social anxieties. Sometimes interacting in video games is the extent of what people find themselves comfortable with, and some people aren't even comfortable with that. GW2 has historically been a great game for people like that.

Based on your personal history with the event as compared to mine, there is a vast variation in success across groups, with or without support builds involved. If you're "always managing to succeed," then the groups I've seen are just vastly inferior to the ones you get into.

[Gorem.8104]

2 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The overworld content is chalk full of metas based around playing with other people, as well as one off events that require a group of people to do, and are labeled as such.

However, you can do them all without ever joining a squad beforehand or spending 3 hours organising for it. 

On that update, I asked someone who usually gets it done in their raid group, and they said all that seems to be increased is a few imperial favours, so increased rewards, as vague as they put it in the patch notes, seems to be a tiny increase that most won't notice. Also that the update has bugged her out and she is swapping sides again more often - though again hard to tell because of the stupid fights RNG. Like how are you supposed to tell anything about a fight with as much RNG as the DE meta has. Good content has no RNG in it, BAD content is RNG riddled. DE is bad content. 
They should at least make the event like Dragon Stand and just have the meta only run during escorts, outside of escorts events should play no role in the meta. That way the time required would be lowered as you would not need to prepare a zone or get 10 stacks before it starts. At least give us something.