Dragon's End Meta is Garbage

[Erise.5614]

2 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

You don’t need the buff

I'd love to see you stream beat Soo Won without prep and without joining a map prior in 1 hour or less.

If you stream that by tomorrow I'll shut up on the forums and donate 20 bucks.

No guild, no raid group, no squad you're part of prior, no coordination with anyone else. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Erise.5614

[mythical.6315]

1 minute ago, Erise.5614 said:

I'd love to see you stream beat Soo Won without prep and without joining a map prior in 1 hour or less.

Id love for you to prove that it’s required since you’re the one making the claim.  You made the initial claim; back it up. 

[Mithrilos.8036]

The whole frustration behind that meta is probably because its difficulty has crossed a specific line ( which isn't a bad thing in itself ) and that there are specific achievement linked to it. There is a lot of frustration that build up I guess when you are trying to join a squad ( if you are lucky ) prepare the meta and ultimatly fail in the end without "rewards".

[Erise.5614]

6 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Id love for you to prove that it’s required since you’re the one making the claim.  You made the initial claim; back it up. 

I mean, you're claiming it's possible. I'm claiming it's impossible. How the hell am I supposed to prove it's impossible? lol

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

16 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Even so, if you only need 9k, siphoning people wasn't necessary. You're completely dodging the main point of why someone was being a toxic jerk to toot your own horn. 

I didn't dodge any point, I expressed my annoyance with Pang's act 12-13 days ago, you know, when it happened. So, back off on that.

18 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Even so, if you only need 9k, siphoning people wasn't necessary. You're completely dodging the main point of why someone was being a toxic jerk to toot your own horn. Also, 9k is a number. It doesn't account for phases where you're not doing DPS. There's a lot of mechanics where you stop DPS on soo won or are just dodging stuff/staying out of bad. 

That's a number that yielded us a success in 16 minutes. 

20 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I have a few answers for echovald: 

1) Confusion procs really hard on the final golem in certain circumstances. I've miralaced on it a lot. Also torment is very effective as well as it's stationary. I'm sure one person can hard carry the DPS req on it if needed
2) I feel like I can get more consistent damage on it
3). The only party-wiping mechanic is no where close to the magnitude of stuff going on in ED. 

 

I brought up Echovald because you said timers should not test DPS, I could use so many more other examples, essentially every meta, because ALL have a timer.

23 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Given maps are completely random and minstrels exists, I wouldn't put a really tough DPS check on ANY OW boss. The moment you tell everyone to start running raid gear and specs everywhere, the build diversity of the game collapses, it becomes unfriendly to anyone who doesn't like those playstyles and quite frankly violates the core DNA of the game. There's no reason for us to ahve that kind of freedom if raiding all the time is what they expect. ANd people didn't fall in love with this game playing raid specs. And quite frankly, I don't like running them all the time either. 
 

If you look up any Raid build you see a benchmark tied to them, DPS builds usually start around 34k, that is a bit above the required DPS here. Noone forces anyone to run a certain gear. You just have to know how to play with what you have. Something some people seem to struggle with.
Noone expects you to be a Raider, people expect you to be able to pull your weight, something not really difficult in this meta.
I doubt the core DNA of the game was handing the rewards to everyone regardless effort.

[mythical.6315]

Just now, Erise.5614 said:

I mean, you're claiming it's possible. I'm claiming it's impossible. How the hell am I supposed to prove it's impossible? lol

The same way someone can prove it’s impossible to drive a car doing the speed limit from one city to another within a specific timeframe.  Different scenarios and circumstances but it’s not impossible to prove that something is impossible. 

[xlion.3065]

If people who know a lot more about the game than me and are better players than me, e. g. WP, do not tackle DE unless they are very well prepared, I'd consider it impossible for me, unless I'm lucky to join a very well prepared/preparing map.

[Mithrilos.8036]

If the meta is too easy, it will just become another ressource farm zone like now the Octopath.

I came back to some of the older meta event, and some were now so easy.

 

But you can't ask the comunity to turn into a wargod. 

 

I understand that we are reaching end game level, it has been long since Zhaïtan stuff, and usually people that reach DE are at least experienced enough ( or they should, unless they skipped everything...which is silly ).

 

I won't say that the average skill level is lacking, I'd blame the visual toxicity of zerg in the game, that hides red circles and obstruct vision.

I'd blame the 80% of boss fight in the game arn't that mobile which lead to less attention. In zerg people feel probably safer and let down their guard.

 

I'm pretty sure that, at some point DE will be easier and easier, because players will be used to all the patterns.

 

EDIT : you can see an issue when you go to the training area in the starting zone at Cantha

Game is bringing a reminder of old mechanics, and you can still see people just aimlessly 1-1-1 the npc until they realise there is something that must be done.

it should ring a bell.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[Parasite.5389]

15 hours ago, BadHealer.3608 said:

That is strange. Here the DE isn't starting when no one did the pre-events. Maybe you are talking about a different game? Here when the clock strikes 0:00 and the pre-events aren't done, than the map resets and you can can try again in 2 hours.

i meant you can do DE without the buffs from the pre-events, i understand why i was getting so many confused emojis now

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 hour ago, xlion.3065 said:

If people who know a lot more about the game than me and are better players than me, e. g. WP, do not tackle DE unless they are very well prepared, I'd consider it impossible for me, unless I'm lucky to join a very well prepared/preparing map.

Isn't WP fairly casual, though?

[Ruisen.9471]

12 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

I'd love to see you stream beat Soo Won without prep and without joining a map prior in 1 hour or less.

If you stream that by tomorrow I'll shut up on the forums and donate 20 bucks.

No guild, no raid group, no squad you're part of prior, no coordination with anyone else. 

 

Its actually doable without the buff, here's the stream, it starts at 11 mins into the stream:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1439800821?filter=archives&sort=time

Now, that said, the "randoms" who join these runs are generally people who like hard content like this and are willing to put in the extra effort (because its not advertised in LFG, they opened up their discord for anyone interested in putting in effort on DE meta).    People with raid gear usually can do 20k+ DPS during burn, and you can see from arc-DPS that top 8-9 people are within that range.   Also, hopefully this gives people an idea of the level of DPS you need to complete the meta, so people who are just relaying second hand information can all stop making wild claims about exactly how much DPS you need.

 

This isn't meant to be proof that the random zerg can do this.   DE meta is hard, it is designed for the smaller minority of players who enjoy hard content, aka the people trying to do Chak Gerent pre-nerf and the people who enjoy doing TT when it first came out.     The meta is not dead, it is attracting the minority of players who enjoy hard content like it was designed to.     

Something they could do is to add 5 minutes to the timer, but gives bonus rewards if its completed with > 5 mins left on the clock.   That way, the DPS check is something people can work towards, not something that hard gatekeeps them from doing the meta.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, titje.2745 said:

I created a post about legendary gear for open world players not long ago. On guildwars 2 forum i got many likes. I then shared it at Reddit and they all downvoted me. I didn’t expect this from a nice community. 

The community doesn't suddenly stop being "nice" just because people understand there's nothing wrong with long-term goals rewarding players aiming at improving at the game (or playing broader content it provides), when that reward doesn't provide any additional power, so you can easly skip it (and stay with ascended gear) if only you choose to do so.

9 hours ago, titje.2745 said:

everyone are able to obtain legendary gear with games modes they like.

True, these modes are: PvE, WvW and PvP. The players are able to acquire legendary gear in all 3 of the modes the game provides.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Erise.5614]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

The same way someone can prove it’s impossible to drive a car doing the speed limit from one city to another within a specific timeframe.  Different scenarios and circumstances but it’s not impossible to prove that something is impossible. 

So, let me get this straight. I try it once and if I can't do it and post a video of it, you'll agree with me?

[Corabelle.3254]

11 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

So, let me get this straight. I try it once and if I can't do it and post a video of it, you'll agree with me?

Well, no. You'd need to prove that any arbitrary group of 1-60 players would fail without prep and without joining a map prior. Obviously you know this to be false.

[mythical.6315]

15 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

So, let me get this straight. I try it once and if I can't do it and post a video of it, you'll agree with me?

No. Simply failing doesn’t prove that it’s impossible without the buff. There are many other factors to account for and a video would likely highlight those.  So your evidence may actually counter your position whether you failed or not. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Different players. This system for example would be completely fine in a game targeted at a small group of hardcores.

Yes, it is and it should. That's unlikely to happen, though.

It isn't and it shouldn't. Creating a semi-coherent build in this game is based on reading traits/skills and picking the ones that do what you want them to do -not even overly specifically, but rather from the broad categories of "deal power damage", "deal condi damage", "help survive". A semi-coherent build is really enough and it's not some big task of trying to compete with theory-crafters comming up with heavily optimized builds. The same goes about stats. Read and pick attack/defense. That's about it, not a huge task for anyone simply sitting down and reading what the game tells them.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[SinisterSlay.6973]

Need a way to teach those that are still just mashing their keyboards to stop doing that and actually pay attention to their skills.

That's the gap to bridge before we even worry about DPS builds. Either that or teach them to use support builds so their mashing isn't useless.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Difficult or not, I'm been told the thing doesn't even give rewards for partial successes. I mean we had phase chests for Teq, HoT metas, and even failed raids  that give you at least something. Partial rewards would at least encourage people to try again. Making people leave empty handed is just not the way.

Why did they forget this?

Edited March 29, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Rotchi.1630]

Type less complains and practice to play your class and build instead, then the meta will be easier... and as a bonus, everything else you do do in game will also become easier. Win-Win

Edited March 29, 2022 by Rotchi.1630

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

4 minutes ago, Rotchi.1630 said:

Type less complains and practice to play your class and build instead, then the meta will be easier... and as a bonus, everything else you do do in game will also become easier. Win-Win

It would indeed seem some folks would prefer to just wipe to a squad of enemies instead of styling on 20 of them at the same time.

Shame, because the combat in this game is really stylish and fluid when mastered.

 

[Erise.5614]

32 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

No. Simply failing doesn’t prove that it’s impossible without the buff. There are many other factors to account for and a video would likely highlight those.  So your evidence may actually counter your position whether you failed or not. 

So in other words. It's impossible to disprove because so long as there is any theoretical possibility it's not actually disproven.

While proving it is possible is very trivially possible. Just do it once. 

[Ragnarox.9601]

HoT dragons stand final area meta is better 25x times, more fun and rewarding.

 

This meta is 1 time only for the turtle and  never ever come back.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Ragnarox.9601

[Peterson.5172]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/112348-game-update-notes-march-29-2022/?do=findComment&comment=1621042

Quote

• End of Dragons event rewards have been improved.
• Improved timing and flow for the bite attack sequence for the final boss in the Battle for the Jade Sea meta-event, which will allow for slightly more uptime on attacking the boss.

new patch today, anyone test these two? havent done DE for a couple of weeks now.

[blambidy.3216]

22 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

How, when this game is supposedly designed to be a good match for casual players?

This game technically was not designed for casuals. Before the game has given expacs. This game was high pvp focused and did actual tournaments where real people earned real cash money. They only cater to casual players because more casual people are more willing to pay more in game. This game tried pvp tournaments. Gave out raid wings 1-3 withing 6 months because Anet wanted players to play this game to a high level. And technically the only reason raids haven’t been up kept because players don’t know how to kill the raid bosses for them to create more wings. That is why strikes have been started so that players could get into harder content to play better and to have a chance to raid like most raiders. But this game truly isn’t a casual game “if” you want to play this game to the fullest. Only reason it’s casual because people give up on the content and stay within open world and then blame Anet to nerf the meta just like every single casual player is doing now. 
 

Omg dragon meta is too hard. Omg why do I need to run a proper build. Omg why Anet why you make me try to play the game with other players.  This right here is the reason why Anet makes easier content. Because the players who beat the content within the first day are overlooked at players who complain about this dragon meta like it’s hard to defeat. However each time Iv done the meta I haven’t wiped at all. Even pre nerf. This game has never been casual. Even the design of open world casuals want it nerfed. Hot open world nerfed. The eater in poF story was nerfed. Mordremoth story instance nerfed. Dragon meta nerfed. Many things Anet starts in the beginning Anet has to change cause casuals whine that they can’t beat it. 

[Erise.5614]

11 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/112348-game-update-notes-march-29-2022/?do=findComment&comment=1621042

new patch today, anyone test these two? havent done DE for a couple of weeks now.

Difference for DPS windows is tiny. No idea about rewards. Did it with a pug that even did subgroups optimizing for quickness / alac. Which still fail. 

 

8 minutes ago, blambidy.3216 said:

This game technically was not designed for casuals. Before the game has given expacs. This game was high pvp focused and did actual tournaments where real people earned real cash money. They only cater to casual players because more casual people are more willing to pay more in game. This game tried pvp tournaments. Gave out raid wings 1-3 withing 6 months because Anet wanted players to play this game to a high level. And technically the only reason raids haven’t been up kept because players don’t know how to kill the raid bosses for them to create more wings. That is why strikes have been started so that players could get into harder content to play better and to have a chance to raid like most raiders. But this game truly isn’t a casual game “if” you want to play this game to the fullest. Only reason it’s casual because people give up on the content and stay within open world and then blame Anet to nerf the meta just like every single casual player is doing now. 
 

Omg dragon meta is too hard. Omg why do I need to run a proper build. Omg why Anet why you make me try to play the game with other players.  This right here is the reason why Anet makes easier content. Because the players who beat the content within the first day are overlooked at players who complain about this dragon meta like it’s hard to defeat. However each time Iv done the meta I haven’t wiped at all. Even pre nerf. This game has never been casual. Even the design of open world casuals want it nerfed. Hot open world nerfed. The eater in poF story was nerfed. Mordremoth story instance nerfed. Dragon meta nerfed. Many things Anet starts in the beginning Anet has to change cause casuals whine that they can’t beat it. 

I mean. I agree with most of this.

But the conclusion to be drawn here is that ANet has been consistently overvaluing hardcore players and neglected a proper progression path and casual experience. Hitting people over their head with content of that kind and then complaining about "whining" seems a bit weird!?