What would you change about Specter? (PvE)

[kash.9213]

43 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

I agree untie the forced shadow stepping form the wells its annoying to me at least i get some people might like it but it makes it annoying for me in raid content when i kept slightly moving while just trying to give alac. Its turned me off so much that i dont really want to continue trying to play it. Literally please make shadow stepping to a well optional or replace that mechanic with something else entirely 

 

Make the shroud skills feel more impactful the shroud feels less active than the weapon skills because its slow... a page taken from necromancer's book no doubt which is fine but specters shroud feels like necro shroud but without any traits backing it up to make it feel effective.  

 

The offensive wells are also a bit lackluster... make the elite well condi based too you may as well do that so we can at least run a full well set for alac builds otherwise its just better to take thieves guild or the venom... 

 

Conder undoing the single target tie and making it a 5 target tie even if you have to make the visual extremely minor to reduce bloat. in EoD you knocked most supports from 10 target down to 5 but specter mostly sits at 1 target its really not going to work out for the standard attempting to be set.

 

 

If they changed the Wells Shadowstep into an option, then it would need to be quick and easy to use, otherwise, leave that alone. Thieves move, that's our thing, and it's nice having that mobility even if the current Wells are a little jankey. Usually a zerg wont start cascading and falling unless most of our floaters have some muscle memory with mobility. Being able to cloud or circle strafe a squad hitting opposing corners or sides with Control to start dismantling their composition is huge, but we need to earn that. If Specter were turned into a static ranged canon that could cause issues and also wouldn't be very fun. 

[ZDragon.3046]

1 minute ago, kash.9213 said:

If they changed the Wells Shadowstep into an option, then it would need to be quick and easy to use, otherwise, leave that alone. Thieves move, that's our thing, and it's nice having that mobility even if the current Wells are a little jankey. Usually a zerg wont start cascading and falling unless most of our floaters have some muscle memory with mobility. Being able to cloud or circle strafe a squad hitting opposing corners or sides with Control to start dismantling their composition is huge, but we need to earn that. If Specter were turned into a static ranged canon that could cause issues and also wouldn't be very fun. 

 

Technically speaking specter is suppose to be the least mobile thief spec so why it has mobility forced on every utility is beyond me. I get it taking a hit to your offensive resource is punishing enough but realistically the shadow step probably shouldn't be there on each well to start with when the wells could just provide additional support or sustain instead of the forced shadow step. Just something to keep in mind as a side note i suppose.

 

I dont care how they do it though remove it for something else or make it optional but easy to use either one is fine with me i just dont want to be force to skip around when im just trying to provide boon support it feels really weird considering no other support is forced to do that. 

[Zacchary.6183]

4 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

 

Technically speaking specter is suppose to be the least mobile thief spec so why it has mobility forced on every utility is beyond me. I get it taking a hit to your offensive resource is punishing enough but realistically the shadow step probably shouldn't be there on each well to start with when the wells could just provide additional support or sustain instead of the forced shadow step. Just something to keep in mind as a side note i suppose.

 

I dont care how they do it though remove it for something else or make it optional but easy to use either one is fine with me i just dont want to be force to skip around when im just trying to provide boon support it feels really weird considering no other support is forced to do that. 

iirc they wanted us to use it in conjunction with shadow savior since it was supposed to be part of the few support traits thief had but never saw any use because of the professions terrible support options.

[ZDragon.3046]

1 minute ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

iirc they wanted us to use it in conjunction with shadow savior since it was supposed to be part of the few support traits thief had but never saw any use because of the professions terrible support options.

Would argue that they would be better off changing that trait to be on blind application or when smoke/ dark fields pulse over shadow step activations. Either way while i understand some people like it i find it very clunky feeling. In some cases going with the simpler route is not always the worst options rather than backing what was already a clunky. 

[kash.9213]

27 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

 

Technically speaking specter is suppose to be the least mobile thief spec so why it has mobility forced on every utility is beyond me. I get it taking a hit to your offensive resource is punishing enough but realistically the shadow step probably shouldn't be there on each well to start with when the wells could just provide additional support or sustain instead of the forced shadow step. Just something to keep in mind as a side note i suppose.

 

I dont care how they do it though remove it for something else or make it optional but easy to use either one is fine with me i just dont want to be force to skip around when im just trying to provide boon support it feels really weird considering no other support is forced to do that. 

I feel like thief players got the support spec that was appropriate for thief players. If you want to stand still and be static with some ranged beams then why thief or specter? Shadowstepping is kind of our signature. I'm not saying you shouldn't ask for what you're asking for. I think it would degrade the spec and would probably see thief players playing other Elites again while people who like static ranged support would just have a lesser version they'll lose interest in and go back to their mains. 

Really the cast times just need to be played by the devs in different fights and adjusted. There's kind of a skill queue and scepter skills and wells really feel that and you can get stalled or tripped up if you don't pace yourself. The cast times on Wells don't slide along with everything else right now but it's not too bad. 

[ZDragon.3046]

3 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I feel like thief players got the support spec that was appropriate for thief players. If you want to stand still and be static with some ranged beams then why thief or specter? Shadowstepping is kind of our signature. I'm not saying you shouldn't ask for what you're asking for. I think it would degrade the spec and would probably see thief players playing other Elites again while people who like static ranged support would just have a lesser version they'll lose interest in and go back to their mains. 

Really the cast times just need to be played by the devs in different fights and adjusted. There's kind of a skill queue and scepter skills and wells really feel that and you can get stalled or tripped up if you don't pace yourself. The cast times on Wells don't slide along with everything else right now but it's not too bad. 

I personally thought the elite specs were all about breaking out of their signature which is why they gave it a shroud which unfortunately is lacking too. I certainly wish it felt more powerful but it lacks the proper boosting traits like necromancer shroud often has and depends on. 

While i certainly understand the need to keep shadow stepping i think there are easier ways to allow better support than the use of shadow stepping alone.  The idea that thief could finally be a proper support is sadly hurt by anets choice to force it mostly into single target based support which is far from the standard they are going for. Specter is just in a weird space i suppose i want to like it more but it needs some fixing to make it more enjoyable for me. Its by far one of the more interesting specs of the bunch too which is the sad part. 

[kash.9213]

2 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

I personally thought the elite specs were all about breaking out of their signature which is why they gave it a shroud which unfortunately is lacking too. I certainly wish it felt more powerful but it lacks the proper boosting traits like necromancer shroud often has and depends on. 

While i certainly understand the need to keep shadow stepping i think there are easier ways to allow better support than the use of shadow stepping alone.  The idea that thief could finally be a proper support is sadly hurt by anets choice to force it mostly into single target based support which is far from the standard they are going for. Specter is just in a weird space i suppose i want to like it more but it needs some fixing to make it more enjoyable for me. Its by far one of the more interesting specs of the bunch too which is the sad part. 

That's fair. I don't agree with the part in bold but I understand your reasoning in general even if I'm not on the same page. I wouldn't mind if it became a flip skill like Shadow Flare with no cast time but keep the Heal and the Shadow Force gain at the the other end of the Shadowstep. 

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

The idea that thief could finally be a proper support is sadly hurt by anets choice to force it mostly into single target based support which is far from the standard they are going for. Specter is just in a weird space i suppose i want to like it more but it needs some fixing to make it more enjoyable for me. Its by far one of the more interesting specs of the bunch too which is the sad part. 

i actually massively disagree with this statement imho.

Heres the thing. Thief has no Core synergy through its traitlines nor its Core utilities to provide for a Straight up support option, it just doesnt. Thief was Never susposed to be a Support and every design choice realistically enforces this that much more.

Spectre. imho HAS to be in a Single target based Support. a Actual Straight up support thief, would be a Absolute joke and actually early on when people tried to fake "Leaks" people straight up said, If Thief got a Actual support specc. Thiefs dead next Expansion, and this is Actually SERIOUSLY TRUE.

Because of how thief is right now, it'd require that Elite to be EXTREMELY bloated. like Firebrand levels of bloated to simply cope, now the stacked issue here is that it'd do too much damage as a healer. because its entire support will be balanced around only using ONE Support traitline. this will generate Nerfs to core Thiefs DPS. which would have Damaged all prior Elites in the process + the core proffession. likely making it completely unable to fill a DPS Role anymore.

Basically what im saying is. a Support thief would Slap the Back end of a Nerf bat harder then Chronomancer orginally did in its Inital Launch.

If we break down why Mesmers so bad, its actually because Anet tried to do this EXACTLY. they tried to make a ASSASSIN styled proffession function as a Support. well its all well and good til you reliese your creating hyper mobile Bunkers capable of One shotting players at the same time as healing a Team. Then suddenly your trying to Weigh these both in to not completely Delete one playstyle and Actually Just outright Damage the intergrity of the Proffessions Fundamental Function at its very core.

DO NOT, repeat the MISTAKES that led to Mesmers becoming Such a Janky up and down proffession Full of Weird Interactions and Fundamental requirements to be just work properly on thief. Thief is a Assassin. its Too mobile and it has too much Damage at its Core level to lift a Actual Support onto it without a Severe Rework.

For thief to have a Level in the support catagory, it needs to be what Spectre is. it Needs to be a Niche Situation you'd carry inside your DPS and spectre does this flawlessly.

34k DPS Personal DPS Keeps its Personal Damage Low enough to not be a Full DPS Or Require nerfing. but they fixed it by adding a 6k Venomshare Mechanic into the specc Lifting it to a Primary DPS in a Unique Method.

It can Trait into a Strong Rezz capability and also into a 5man Barrier burst which can Aid Runs which are done without Healers or less then the Average amount of Healers present to top players off.

It can Tunnel focus Healing into Players who are doing  Mechanics or primarily taking the brunt of the Damage to support the Healers present in the group.

While Providing a Alacrity build and other tid bits of Boons to stack.

Spectre IMHO. has Successful Walked the Fine line of seriously implementing such a thing to this Proffession and IMHO holds ALOT of impactful Strength Naturally. its 110% apart of Every game modes Meta and it manages thsi in a Non-Toxic Way to the game itself. and Shows Anet have Truely grown Capable in managing these sorts of Unique things.

Now they just need to go back and Rectify every failure they've taken Regarding older Elites which tried to be this, but Fell short where the Lessons Learnt have Strengthened Spectre.

[Doggie.3184]

OP's ideas are all great and I support those XD. I would remove all Shadowsteps from Measured Shot though.

Other things I'd add which I've mentioned already is putting a stunbreak on one of the wells and letting me use Siphon for Thrill of the Crime Swiftness without a target or let me trigger it off allies~ along with other traits~ at reduced duration to match lower CD. It's weird how little access to swiftness it has and the casting time+short distance on well teleports don't make up for it, (plus you're wasting them). You can't keep up with allies you Twilight Combo to give them swiftness when you can't get it yourself, especially when it requires mini-pauses for the 2nd swing.

Fix Twilight Combo getting line of sighted by 'allies.' Not sure if that's a bad design choice or a bug, but it makes it completely unreliable for support because the game is designed around stacking on top of everyone forever.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[nopoet.2960]

Initiative.  It's really hard to make other weapons work with specter because of the reduced initiative.

[Elan.7523]

OP nailed the two things that currently annoy me most about Specter.  The forced teleport to wells, as opposed to having it be a flippy skill, and the forced teleport when using Scepter Pistol 3.  It is just... disruptive, and feels like it is disruptive for no good reason.  If there is a reason behind it, it could make the difference in my opinion but I don't see it.

  

Having said that, I feel the Specter is amazing overall.  Weak against groups of mobs, especially when alone, but against a single target when you have allies to support it blooms wonderfully.

[ArcanistSeven.8720]

turn off ally targeting to me spectre is a failed support and will continue to as long as its single target

Edited May 5, 2022 by ArcanistSeven.8720

[Xhieron.2168]

I'm inclined to agree that the single target focus and ally targeting mechanic are both major drawbacks and disincentives to play the spec. Thematically and aesthetically, specter is possibly my favorite spec in the game. It has the GW1 assassin purple with spells and darkness that I've been waiting for for a decade--except its primary weapon is cleave-less, and it wears a support mechanic like an albatross around its neck, meaning that in most content it has features that are essentially wasted. In essence it's a spec that feels like it's designed for a different game. It's great at boss killing, and it does the thing it was designed to do (support)--just not in the way it was intended (healing).

At the risk of making the spec too attractive, if I had my druthers I'd add cleave to the scepter auto-attack--preferably a bounce that goes between allies for healing and enemies for damage, a la Mirror Blade (Mesmer GS 2), but alternatively a splash AOE like Shattershot (Renegade SB 1). At the same time and more importantly, I'd do away with the ally targeting altogether. The game simply isn't designed to support it, and at this point we've done enough testing; it's time to admit it doesn't work. Strangely enough the spec can still function as a healer--it just does it without depending on the single-target mechanic. People who raid can tell us whether it's viable as a healer in high end content, but I have a feeling that even if it is, there aren't many people who wouldn't prefer it just work like every other healer in the game.

 

[Shinzan.2908]

Let Rot Wallow Venom apply to yourself.

[TwiceCookedPorkins.8940]

Wells absolutely need to use the "Snap Ground Target to Current Target" logic. I looooove the class but it's so frustrating because my hands aren't as agile as they used to be.

[Curennos.9307]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:13 PM, Xhieron.2168 said:

I'm inclined to agree that the single target focus and ally targeting mechanic are both major drawbacks and disincentives to play the spec. Thematically and aesthetically, specter is possibly my favorite spec in the game. It has the GW1 assassin purple with spells and darkness that I've been waiting for for a decade--except its primary weapon is cleave-less, and it wears a support mechanic like an albatross around its neck, meaning that in most content it has features that are essentially wasted. In essence it's a spec that feels like it's designed for a different game. It's great at boss killing, and it does the thing it was designed to do (support)--just not in the way it was intended (healing).

At the risk of making the spec too attractive, if I had my druthers I'd add cleave to the scepter auto-attack--preferably a bounce that goes between allies for healing and enemies for damage, a la Mirror Blade (Mesmer GS 2), but alternatively a splash AOE like Shattershot (Renegade SB 1). At the same time and more importantly, I'd do away with the ally targeting altogether. The game simply isn't designed to support it, and at this point we've done enough testing; it's time to admit it doesn't work. Strangely enough the spec can still function as a healer--it just does it without depending on the single-target mechanic. People who raid can tell us whether it's viable as a healer in high end content, but I have a feeling that even if it is, there aren't many people who wouldn't prefer it just work like every other healer in the game.

 

I hadn't noticed until recently, but shortbow AA applies bleed to targets that are poisoned and bounces, forcing synergy with SB4 (I say forcing because imo this 'synergy' is completely unnecessary and the AA should just apply bleed, but eh). I would enjoy some sort of small AoE boom on the scepter AA though, if only to provide some support to allies around the target I'm attacking, because let's be honest nobody is ever going to switch targets just to AA someone supportively.

[Cynz.9437]

Change GW2 UI to support... well support and specter healing being single target. 

[Gibson.4036]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:13 PM, Xhieron.2168 said:

I'm inclined to agree that the single target focus and ally targeting mechanic are both major drawbacks and disincentives to play the spec. Thematically and aesthetically, specter is possibly my favorite spec in the game. It has the GW1 assassin purple with spells and darkness that I've been waiting for for a decade--except its primary weapon is cleave-less, and it wears a support mechanic like an albatross around its neck, meaning that in most content it has features that are essentially wasted. In essence it's a spec that feels like it's designed for a different game. It's great at boss killing, and it does the thing it was designed to do (support)--just not in the way it was intended (healing).

At the risk of making the spec too attractive, if I had my druthers I'd add cleave to the scepter auto-attack--preferably a bounce that goes between allies for healing and enemies for damage, a la Mirror Blade (Mesmer GS 2), but alternatively a splash AOE like Shattershot (Renegade SB 1). At the same time and more importantly, I'd do away with the ally targeting altogether. The game simply isn't designed to support it, and at this point we've done enough testing; it's time to admit it doesn't work. Strangely enough the spec can still function as a healer--it just does it without depending on the single-target mechanic. People who raid can tell us whether it's viable as a healer in high end content, but I have a feeling that even if it is, there aren't many people who wouldn't prefer it just work like every other healer in the game.

 

It’s the lack of cleave that has kept me from playing Specter as well, even though I really like the aesthetic.

[Valisha.8650]

An option to disable targeting allies. Truly, it's all that Specter needs.