Alternative path for PVE Legendary Armor

[mythical.6315]

1 minute ago, Peterson.5172 said:

"punished" is probably too strong a word, but depends how you look at it

i think only 5% of the playerbase plays raids? assuming they account for 5% of the game's playtime/income, you get 95% of the playerbase bankrolling content they never get to enjoy, rewards they never get. is that "punishment"?

What percentage of players do sPvP?  What percentage of players do WvW?  That’s content that a minority of players participate in but has been bankrolled by the majority of players. You will see this in all MMOs. 

[Peterson.5172]

Just now, mythical.6315 said:

What percentage of players do sPvP?  What percentage of players do WvW?  That’s content that a minority of players participate in but has been bankrolled by the majority of players. You will see this in all MMOs. 

those game mode havent gotten any major updates in like 5/6 years? for the most part they just get anet's "balance" patches. their legendary armor are just existing reskins.

raids on the other hand get custom maps, mechanics and enemies.

[Fleabite.7528]

Am just a day or two away from getting my 18th and final piece of legendary PvP armor - which has been several years of grind for me. The same sort of grind needed for the WvW and Raid armor. 

 

And I think it's a great idea to have pve legendary armor too - so long as it's also suitably grindy.

 

Really, nobody should lose sleep over a new route to legendary armor, particularly now we have Armory and the real utility it brings. 

[mythical.6315]

1 minute ago, Peterson.5172 said:

those game mode havent gotten any major updates in like 5/6 years? for the most part they just get anet's "balance" patches. their legendary armor are just existing reskins.

raids on the other hand get custom maps, mechanics and enemies.

And raids hasn’t gotten any major updates in like 2.5 years. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Peterson.5172 said:

raids on the other hand get custom maps, mechanics and enemies.

The last Raid (The Key of Ahdashim) was released almost 3 years ago.

[Rinagal.9235]

4 minutes ago, disco.9302 said:

so you've completely misunderstood the premise here, but don't worry I can help. All players are rewarded for the content they succeed at completing. If that content is simple, the rewards are simple. If the content is more challenging, the rewards reflect this. 

 

It's not how it actually work in the game right now, you can literaly craft legendary armor by fighting.nothing harder than veteran mobs, it's what many players do. And there is reverse examples like doing some actually challenging content have almost zero reward.

[Peterson.5172]

1 minute ago, mythical.6315 said:

And raids hasn’t gotten any major updates in like 2.5 years. 

 

Just now, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

The last Raid (The Key of Ahdashim) was released almost 3 years ago.

even if you ignore everything else raid brings (special legendary skin, exclusive currency items, aerodome)

the last (and only?) new wvw map was back in 2015...

 

[disco.9302]

1 minute ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

 

It's not how it actually work in the game right now, you can literaly craft legendary armor by fighting.nothing harder than veteran mobs, it's what many players do. And there is reverse examples like doing some actually challenging content have almost zero reward.

then you are suggesting we remove any easy way of getting to legendary gear? 

I'll presume you mean taking wvw camps and towers to farm pips for armour is what you're describing there. Thank you for explaining to OP that they can grind pve mobs in wvw and avoid raiding altogether. Perhaps they should be paying attention to your posts.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

4 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

even if you ignore everything else raid brings (special legendary skin, exclusive currency items, aerodome)

The Aerodrome came out around 2015, Envoy armor skins came out in 2016-2017., if Anet didn't add a way to spend Magnetite on MC and Clovers the last addition of Raid currency item would be in 2019.

The last date for exclusive currency items in OW? 2022.

6 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

the last (and only?) new wvw map was back in 2015...

Not like WvW is going to get Alliances or anything. 

[Rinagal.9235]

7 minutes ago, disco.9302 said:

then you are suggesting we remove any easy way of getting to legendary gear? 

Would you be so kind to point out where did i suggest it?

 

7 minutes ago, disco.9302 said:

I'll presume you mean taking wvw camps and towers to farm pips for armour is what you're describing there. Thank you for explaining to OP that they can grind pve mobs in wvw and avoid raiding altogether. Perhaps they should be paying attention to your posts.

Grinding mobs isn't what open world is about, must be shocking, i understand. If it was how you played open world all this time, then you did it wrong.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Rinagal.9235

[AricanaRainbow.7145]

On 4/10/2022 at 3:09 AM, A Hamster.2580 said:

For those that do not WvW or PvP, the only way to get legendary armor is to either start raiding or buy raids from the many sellers advertising in the Raids LFG. Since raid selling seems to be allowed, I believe the following proposal would be more fair for both raiders and nonraiders (at the expense of the raid sellers).

 

I propose there to be an alternate way to unlock the the ability to craft legendary armor without having to get into raids at all. I would guess this new achievement collection would involve performing certain feats in the HoT maps. Legendary Insights would still be required to craft the legendary armor, however they should be tradable. Raiders with no interest in crafting legendary armor (or already have all three sets of legendary armor) can sell these insights on the trading post for nonraiders to buy. This should increase the pitiful weekly gold income for raiders while at the same time be a cheaper way for nonraiders to acquire legendary armor without having to go through raid sellers. Nonraiders can still choose to start raiding if they prefer to earn the Legendary Insights directly or to unlock the ability to craft legendary armor via raiding.

 

This should also clean up the Raid LFG a bit from all the raid selling listings, provide more of a gold sink from making insights tradable due to the 15% taxes, free up inventory space for raiders that have stacks of legendary insights, provide a new long term goal for a large number of nonraiders. I think the only people that would argue against this is raid sellers. Here are some potential cons that I thought about:

[SNIP]

Please let me know your thoughts on this or if there is something I am just not seeing.

I've made all 3 sets, and still have over 3 stacks of LI. I've raided for about 3 years, give or take a few weeks. We're of a similar exp level 🙂 . I've tanked all the tank-able ones, etc. Being able to get rid of my LI would give me an excuse to keep raiding :P. I do like the fights, and the social aspects as well. Raid selling is a grey area, IMO. I don't like it, but I think there's always been a demand for it, from whales wanting a vanity title, for example, but not able/willing/capable of raiding enough to get the experience to get them. Or a myriad of reasons....

As for your question, I agree we need a way to get rid of LI/LD, how, I've only casually thought about.

[mythical.6315]

23 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

 

even if you ignore everything else raid brings (special legendary skin, exclusive currency items, aerodome)

the last (and only?) new wvw map was back in 2015...

 

And? Look at the resources it took to develop sPvP and WvW to its current state.  How about the resources currently being spent for alliances? Look at the resources it took to develop raids to its current state. The timing of when the resources were used isn’t relevant. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, disco.9302 said:

so you've completely misunderstood the premise here, but don't worry I can help. All players are rewarded for the content they succeed at completing. If that content is simple, the rewards are simple. If the content is more challenging, the rewards reflect this. 

The game devs have shown by putting higher value gear in raids, that this is their vision of harder content = better rewards system. I am someone who agrees with that idea. You are inventing some bizarre narrative where non-raiders are punished for being openworld only players. They're not and if somebody thinks this they are clearly deluded beyond help or reasonable discussion.

In addition, there is a completely false idea that raids are somehow impossibly hard. They're not. Granted they take more effort than chopping down some trees in Queensdale, but they are far  from hardcore.

Hm didn't they say explicit  1 month ago in a stream, that Legendary gear is Participation reward (do the content) and not high end reward ?

 

(why i find it funny when people defended EoD meta and where telling the casual to gut good and the casual wanted  the Turtle , and then the first group went  around and called that casuals are toxic and agressive to them :PP

Why we couldnt keep it up old gg ?:PP Makes the forum ,more alive :PP

Whats was the quote from Wonderwoman 1 ,where she danced with that ww2 general?)

Edited April 11, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Astralporing.1957]

16 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Quoted the wrong person? I never said a word about Gifts for Legendary weapons.

Yes, I know what I wrote, no need to quote me, I listed the stuff you need and added you also need gifts and a bunch of materials, that's why I said don't slice that up, because it's a single topic, not two separate topics. However, let me rephrase it for you;

There are people asking for new ways to get PvE Legendary armor not accounting for the fact that just because Legendary armor is cheaper per piece than weapons it's more expensive than a weapon in the end. From this we can go to the following:
We've seen people complaining about certain materials for Legendaries, like A.S.S or certain content for a certain 2-player mount.
And thus making something requiring a lot of gold to make could warrant people complaining about the price. Alternatively making something require certain events and such could warrant people complaining it's too difficult.

Then let me point it out to you that nothing of that sort is happening for already existing OW legendaries. And while A.S.S. is being complained about, it's just something shortterm - in a month or two those complains will mostly start disappearing. In a year noone will even remember they might have considered it a problem once.

(EoD meta remains an issue, but exactly because it is an attempt to push non-OW type of content into OW).

 

16 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I have said it a few times already, with the current amount of people invested into Legendary armor and Trinkets there isn't much reason in developing 3 new sets. If we go with 10% of players finishing the collections for PvE Legendary armor(thus less than 10% actually finishing it) does OW Legendary armor sound like a good investment from Anet's viewpoint?

Depends. Do they consider the investment in Raid armor to be worthwhile?

Notice, how (if we base it on Aurora data) OW armor would bring a better result (even if not that much better), while also requiring far less investment (why is that i explain below). That would make it vastly more wortwhile than a raid set.

16 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

From your viewpoint it may sound like a good investment, but then again more Raids sound good from the viewpoint of Raiders, not so good from any other viewpoint really.

Difference is, that, first, OW legendary does not require introducing more OW content, and, second, more OW content is going to happen regardless. The only real problem is the skin itself - personally i doubt they would be willing to make a new transforming one, but they do introduce a number of decent skins for OW anyway, so reserving one for a new legendary set should not be a major issue

16 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Considering the Aurora II is done by 18% more people than Envoy II and Vision II is done by ~10% less people than Envoy II making it the same way as Aurora was done wouldn't really lead to as much success as you wish.

It would make is still a bigger success than a raid set. And, what is equally important, it would be aiming at a different part of community than is the case for the 3 armor sets we have so far.

[Peterson.5172]

58 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

The Aerodrome came out around 2015, Envoy armor skins came out in 2016-2017., if Anet didn't add a way to spend Magnetite on MC and Clovers the last addition of Raid currency item would be in 2019.

The last date for exclusive currency items in OW? 2022.

Not like WvW is going to get Alliances or anything. 

 

46 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

And? Look at the resources it took to develop sPvP and WvW to its current state.  How about the resources currently being spent for alliances? Look at the resources it took to develop raids to its current state. The timing of when the resources were used isn’t relevant. 

"12. Memes about WvW being dead are just memes, WvW actually has one of the most healthy population numbers in the game." https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alliances, can't say the same about raids

+ it's their first "major" update in 5-6 years vs raid regular update for 5-6 years

+ alliance is just "system" changes? a lot less dev time vs new raid

+ around 2015 wvw was actually quite popular. granted it was mostly eotm playing like pve, it was still wvw. only after pip did eotm die

 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

52 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It would make is still a bigger success than a raid set. And, what is equally important, it would be aiming at a different part of community than is the case for the 3 armor sets we have so far.

So, making a Legendary armor set "just like Aurora" would be a bigger success - despite Aurora II sitting at 13% compared to Envoy II's 11% on GW2Efficiency - because it would be aimed at a different part of the community. What part of the community is Aurora aimed at? It's an OW Legendary trinket.

1 minute ago, Peterson.5172 said:

 

"12. Memes about WvW being dead are just memes, WvW actually has one of the most healthy population numbers in the game." https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alliances, can't say the same about raids

+ it's their first "major" update in 5-6 years vs raid regular update for 5-6 years

+ alliance is just "system" changes? a lot less dev time vs new raid

+ around 2015 wvw was actually quite popular. granted it was mostly eotm playing like pve, it was still wvw. only after pip did eotm die

 

So... WvW has more attention than Raids? Isn't that what I said? Raids getting nothing, WvW getting Alliances.

To lessen the load on Anet let's just not ask them to develop a new Legendary armor set, since, you know, less dev time.

[Peterson.5172]

2 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

So... WvW has more attention than Raids? Isn't that what I said? Raids getting nothing, WvW getting Alliances.

To lessen the load on Anet let's just not ask them to develop a new Legendary armor set, since, you know, less dev time.

i was pointing out to the other guy wvw is getting attention it deseves, comparing it to "punishment", not sure what your point was

and if you read OP's post, he's not asking for new armor set...

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

11 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

and if you read OP's post, he's not asking for new armor set...

I did, and that idea has been shut down.

[Peterson.5172]

Just now, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I did, and that idea has been shut down.

by you yes, but i imagine 95% of the playerbase would welcome the idea

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

by you yes, but i imagine 95% of the playerbase would welcome the idea

I only have on alt account and it's called almost the same as this. I actually said that selling LI would make more sense than fully OW armor.

Actually, first I called it a dumb idea, but after seeing other suggestions I changed my mind.

Edited April 11, 2022 by IAmNotMatthew.1058

[Gibson.4036]

I don't understand why stat-changing and rune swapping is necessary for switching between builds for different roles in raids, but unnecessary to move between builds to solo champs, provide support to the squad in metas, burst in general OW content, and adapt to the swing of the nerfhammer.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I only have on alt account and it's called almost the same as this. I actually said that selling LI would make more sense than fully OW armor.

Actually, first I called it a dumb idea, but after seeing other suggestions I changed my mind.

If people can get  (only) 3x LI per weeks from other sources (open world) , then selling it wont seem as P2W .

Just like the Arbor Stones + Mystic Coins (Anomaly Event)

Then we find a way  to reward training Guild , for the "new zerg wave " that will join at that period.

 

edit:

What about people that don't have HoT , or won't get in the future  ?

Should't we acknowledge that Strikes are part of the Raids  and simply create an extra way to get the Set , if any  expanion has Strike or Raids ?

(like like PoF Strikes , share the same rewards as EoD Strikes)

Edited April 11, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Peterson.5172 said:

 

"12. Memes about WvW being dead are just memes, WvW actually has one of the most healthy population numbers in the game." https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alliances, can't say the same about raids

+ it's their first "major" update in 5-6 years vs raid regular update for 5-6 years

+ alliance is just "system" changes? a lot less dev time vs new raid

+ around 2015 wvw was actually quite popular. granted it was mostly eotm playing like pve, it was still wvw. only after pip did eotm die

 

Please explain how the timing of when resources were allocated to either of these matter?  What if all the resources for WvW and sPvP were allocated across the same timeframe as raids?  The resource costs are still the same.  In all cases, players that don’t play those content still bankrolled them. You arguing as if when the resources were spent makes absolutely no sense. 

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Peterson.5172 said:

i was pointing out to the other guy wvw is getting attention it deseves, comparing it to "punishment", not sure what your point was

And raids doesn’t deserve attention?  So essentially it comes down to what does and doesn’t deserve attention is based on your personal preferences or feeling about them?  

[Peterson.5172]

5 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

And raids doesn’t deserve attention?  So essentially it comes down to what does and doesn’t deserve attention is based on your personal preferences or feeling about them?  

well anet already decided it doesnt deserve attention, the raid team got put onto other things, i didnt make that decision, raiders did.

you see, tradable LI = more people playing raids = more raids from anet. but if you rather hold onto your "prestige"... we had 5 years of trial with raids, enticing people in with a carrot didnt work. you want more raids? get more people playing them.