Elite Speculation for Expac 4

[Logos.3042]

You know the Devs really missed on specs when you are getting this thread nearly on release!!!

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

On 4/13/2022 at 12:22 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

- Ranger: Within the domains the ranger found that he couldn't bring familiars from the outer world and thus had to look for new compagnons native of those realms. He found solace in bonding with animals spirits and became a "shaman". Lose access to the common familiars and gain access to a special family of familiar "whisps". The "whisps" have 90% inate damage reduction to all damage but deal very little damage on hit, to compensate their F2 passively strengthen the "shaman" unless it is used actively and goes on CD.

I like this idea of a shaman.

[Arewn.2368]

I'd actually l love to see them revist the base professions next. Elevate them to elite spec status. 

Of course that would take some pretty big revamps, but i'd like to play just a warrior, or just a mesmer again.

 

[Dawanarth.4601]

Elevating the core aspect of a profession without elevating the Espec even further is basically impossible, since the Espec are built on the shoulder of the core

[Randin.5701]

On 5/6/2022 at 5:18 AM, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Elevating the core aspect of a profession without elevating the Espec even further is basically impossible, since the Espec are built on the shoulder of the core

It's possible, but it needs to be done entirely with the class mechanic (necro's shroud, warrior's burst attack, etc), since that's the one element that doesn't carry over into the especs.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:08 AM, Panda.1967 said:

It is far to early to make speculations on the next batch of elite specs… all we know is that there will be a 4th expansion… that isn’t enough information to form anything from… maybe after the next living world season starts we might have something to speculate on, but right now we know nothing. We don’t know where the 4th expansion will take place, we don’t know what we will be up against, we don’t know what cultural influences we will have to build from. Right now you can only really give your wish list, not speculations…

 

remember every elite spec has been themed based on aspects of the expansion they are from (except reaper… but one exception does not make the rule)

This discussion has been had before, but I wouldn't get too hung up on this. There's been only a couple of elite specialisations per expansion that really have a strong link to the theme of the expansion. Others really come across more as having designed the elite specialisation and then came up with fluff to link it into the expansion after the fact.

Firebrand and weaver are perfect examples of this. ArenaNet told us before HoT released that they wanted to bring tomes back to guardians in a future elite specialisation, and the general design principles of weaver were leaked before tempest was announced. I'm pretty confident that the second expansion could, say, have been set in the Icebrood Saga region and we'd still have had the firebrand and weaver, albeit with different fluff, and people would be pointing to the renegade as something that meshes closely with the expansion's themes (while in the expansion we actually received, renegade was an outlier that they couldn't justify as being Elonian).

If they really cared THAT much about working in themes, there'd have been paragon and dervish themed elite specs in Path of Fire, and ritualist and assassin themes in End of Dragons, and apart from the odd nod to them in the fluff, there really aren't. And it would have been easy to do. For instance, keep the same 'broken weapons repurposed' theme of Spellbreaker, make them throw their daggers instead, and give party support skills. Bam. GW2 paragon.

Instead, we just get to see the odd NPC using these professions.

As a result, I'm pretty confident that the overwhelming majority of elite epecialisation design is decided for gameplay reasons, and then they add links to to expansion theme afterwards. So speculation based on what gameplay elements and themes would enhance the professions is completely valid. Knowing the theme would allow for refinement and the opportunity to guess professions that are closely linked to the theme, but I don't think an expansion theme is needed to speculate at all.

A stronger influence might be the summer profession rework, as that will be an indication of which gaps ArenaNet fills through profession updates, and which gaps are left open for future elite specs.

[Dadnir.5038]

8 hours ago, Randin.5701 said:

It's possible, but it needs to be done entirely with the class mechanic (necro's shroud, warrior's burst attack, etc), since that's the one element that doesn't carry over into the especs.

Just to say that you're only partially right. Yes, sure you can balance core necromancer through it's shroud and you'll probably have enough impact for that to truly matter but for other professions, either the impact won't be high enough to matter or you'll have to deal with the fact that this very mechanism is carried over to some of it's e-specs (Spellbreaker carry over warrior's burst, Mirage carry over mesmer's shatters and elementalist's specs all carry over their attunments.).

[draxynnic.3719]

7 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Just to say that you're only partially right. Yes, sure you can balance core necromancer through it's shroud and you'll probably have enough impact for that to truly matter but for other professions, either the impact won't be high enough to matter or you'll have to deal with the fact that this very mechanism is carried over to some of it's e-specs (Spellbreaker carry over warrior's burst, Mirage carry over mesmer's shatters and elementalist's specs all carry over their attunments.).

That's resolvable, though. Spellbreaker only gets level 1 bursts, so buffing level 2 and 3 bursts would buff core warrior without buffing spellbreaker. Mirage, IMO, really should get its own shatters even if the changes are relatively minor (if Desert Distortion was made baseline but F4 only granted one second of Distortion, then maybe it could get its second dodge back, but 4s distortion AND three mirage mirrors is just too much invulnerability and evade in one package). And core elementalist could do with some sort of bonus like core rev.

[VocalThought.9835]

On 4/27/2022 at 5:40 AM, Mik.3401 said:

To me the most probable combination considering their previous choices is something like this:

 

Warrior - melee staff

Guardian - warhorn

revenant - MH axe

Ranger - shield

thief - OH sword

engineer - greatsword

elementalist - mace

necromancer - OH axe

Mesmer - mace

I hope for the same except, maybe giving Mesmer a Short Bow, Elementalist Long Bow.

[RabbitUp.8294]

On 5/8/2022 at 6:24 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

That's resolvable, though. Spellbreaker only gets level 1 bursts, so buffing level 2 and 3 bursts would buff core warrior without buffing spellbreaker. Mirage, IMO, really should get its own shatters even if the changes are relatively minor (if Desert Distortion was made baseline but F4 only granted one second of Distortion, then maybe it could get its second dodge back, but 4s distortion AND three mirage mirrors is just too much invulnerability and evade in one package). And core elementalist could do with some sort of bonus like core rev.

That still doesn't cover every core profession.

Ranger has nothing its elite specs don't have, it would need a new F5. 

Engineer has an F5 toolbelt skill, but there's only so much you can put on a single button, especially when holosmith gets an entire weaponset for an F5.

Similarly, thief has only one skill. They can't buff stolen skills without also buffing DD, and there's only so much you can do with Steal itself. I guess it could get an F3.

[RabbitUp.8294]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:48 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

The necromancer and it's e-specs are already as vampiric as they can be. There is little to no hope for a "vampiric spec" as such spec wouldn't bring anything new to the picture. (Life leech on hit? Check! Minion leeching life? Check! Weapon skills and utility skills leeching life? Check! Leeching life through %age conditions damage? Check! AoE leech? Check and even double check! Leeching life as %age of strike damage? Check!) If anything reaper is as close of a "vampiric spec" as the necromancer will ever get.

You can do more with the vampire theme than just lifesteal. It's more about the theme of darkness and bats and staff like that and of course the shroud transformation.

The shroud for example would be melee and mobile, with the necro attacking with their bare hands with claw animations. The life force could work similar to adrenaline, you start with 0, but you build it by dealing and taking damage, and you can only enter shroud when you have full life force. The life force doesn't protect your health, but you heal for all the damage you deal while in shroud.

It could have familiars as summons, like bats and ravens, that are more supportive than minions, like ranger spirits, but mobile.

[Dawanarth.4601]

If Necro get more summons I would prefer if it was some sort of ghosts, not animals, maybe like the Orrian ghost weapon (Shield, Swords, hammer and Longbow iirc)

[Lily.1935]

On 5/7/2022 at 6:10 PM, Randin.5701 said:

It's possible, but it needs to be done entirely with the class mechanic (necro's shroud, warrior's burst attack, etc), since that's the one element that doesn't carry over into the especs.

There's a few methods for going about it. Some sloppy some might work fairly well but all of them do add complexity to the game. Which might be fine for us Vets, but the question would be "is this too complicated for newcomers?" Generally I'd say the answer was no, but that's difficult to assess.

 

Here are a few options that could be done. These aren't suggestions just to make sure we're clear.

1. Allow Core specs access to all elite spec weapons and utility skills. One such option for them and it would drastically change how core specs are viewed. This isn't always going to be the best option but it would make a few new and unique builds with core specs for sure. Keeping the elite specs locked out of the skills they don't normally get would make for some unique choices between the two as now elite specializations are actually specializations rather than upgrades. HOWEVER, this option comes with a lot of complex problems and can make specific specs like core guardian way better than some of their elite options. and it could be a balancing nightmare as well with having to balance the same skill 4 times across each elite spec and their core specs. This option sounds enticing to me as a build crafter, but as a skeptic I think it might be better as is now.
2. Empowered Core Specialization. Another option is to allow a more powerful version of a single core specialization if slotted in the elite specialization slot which could make traits more potent and offer new utility to give more focus. Like an example would be an empowered blood magic with Transfusion. Normally it just heals people but perhaps the empowered version grants stab as well. Again, this isn't a suggestion but it is an option they could go. I personally don't really like this idea for a few reasons but mainly because it would kinda just be a bit bloated.
3. Additional traits in each core specialization as long as you don't take the elite. This one I like the most of these. More options for players is great and it also could be used to bring back some old favorites like vampiric ritual or even give Quickness and Alacrity to the core specs without it bleeding into the elite specs.

With this said, I do think that some of the core mechanics, core weapons and core utility skills really need some much needed TLC. Warrior bursts, Death shroud, Turrets, Guardian hammer, elementalist staff all come to mind as examples that need some help.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Lily.1935

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, Lily.1935 said:

There's a few methods for going about it. Some sloppy some might work fairly well but all of them do add complexity to the game. Which might be fine for us Vets, but the question would be "is this too complicated for newcomers?" Generally I'd say the answer was no, but that's difficult to assess.

 

Here are a few options that could be done. These aren't suggestions just to make sure we're clear.

1. Allow Core specs access to all elite spec weapons and utility skills. One such option for them and it would drastically change how core specs are viewed. This isn't always going to be the best option but it would make a few new and unique builds with core specs for sure. Keeping the elite specs locked out of the skills they don't normally get would make for some unique choices between the two as now elite specializations are actually specializations rather than upgrades. HOWEVER, this option comes with a lot of complex problems and can make specific specs like core guardian way better than some of their elite options. and it could be a balancing nightmare as well with having to balance the same skill 4 times across each elite spec and their core specs. This option sounds enticing to me as a build crafter, but as a skeptic I think it might be better as is now.
2. Empowered Core Specialization. Another option is to allow a more powerful version of a single core specialization if slotted in the elite specialization slot which could make traits more potent and offer new utility to give more focus. Like an example would be an empowered blood magic with Transfusion. Normally it just heals people but perhaps the empowered version grants stab as well. Again, this isn't a suggestion but it is an option they could go. I personally don't really like this idea for a few reasons but mainly because it would kinda just be a bit bloated.
3. Additional traits in each core specialization as long as you don't take the elite. This one I like the most of these. More options for players is great and it also could be used to bring back some old favorites like vampiric ritual or even give Quickness and Alacrity to the core specs without it bleeding into the elite specs.

With this said, I do think that some of the core mechanics, core weapons and core utility skills really need some much needed TLC. Warrior bursts, Death shroud, Turrets, Guardian hammer, elementalist staff all come to mind as examples that need some help.

I could see 2 and 3 being combined - the "empowered" core specialisation gets extra traits to choose from.

[Iustitian.9176]

The fourth elite spec should be the last one. Otherwise all the specs would just be in a competiton to each other. There are still a few points where the core classes could be improved. 

 

Warrior

The "Gladiator" is focused on supporting allies and can switch to an stance of pure herorism. He use the shortbow to cripple enemies and do critical shots based on the conditions an enemy has. He uses tricks to confuse and control his enemies. His "Battle cry" can revive allies, break stun and bring boons to them based on the greatmaster trait.  
Improvement: Support mechanic, new range weapon

 

Guardian

The "Zealot" is focused on blinding, light auras and take that role at the battlefield what fits the best. He use a offhand mace to channel strong  area light attacks. He uses glyphs that bring benefits based on the active zealot stance. Virtues change to zealot stances that bring strong benefits, but there can only be one stance active and activating a stance set the other ones on a 10 second cooldown. 
Improvement: Class mechanic focused on one role, more effects for blinding and light aura

 

Revenant

The "Caliph" is focused on using deadly agony magic. He use a scepter and focus to inflict painful magic. He can use strong spells, summon a jade tower to weak enemies and switch to a spectral, invisible form to get new energy from the mists and hide himself for a short duration. The new legend is the leader of the mursaat "Optimus caliph". 
Improvement: More skills to focus on one enemy, one hand range weapon and one hand offhand weapon

 

Ranger

The "Beastmaster" is focused on good prepared, strong attacks with many pets. He use a shield to defend himself and can use wide area consecrations to change the nature or seasons to his own advantage. His new ability is to summon a pack of pets, based on the active pet, to increase the pressure and he get new strong pet buff attacks on 3rd weapon skills for strong combinations.
Improvement: More minions available, new 3rd weapon skills, area control

 

Engineer

The "trickster" is a fast engineer with a shortbow and special ammunition on his toolbelt. He get new gadgets (battle equipment skills) like a magnetic glove or a exo skeleton to improve his combat style. 
Improvement: Fast range weapon, more flexibility in combats

 

Thief

The "viper" is focused on combining conditions and attacks to deal the highest damage possible. He get a axe to whirl over the battlefield and inflict bleeding, poison and other coniditions. The new corruption skills weak enemies to their limits. Stolen skills change to blood elixirs that improve the vipers stats but poisoning it. 3rd weapon skills get an attack chain mechanic for strong combinations 
Improvement: First real condition damage elite, new attack chains

 

Necromancer

The "spirit bender" has changed his own shadow to a demonic minion that live from life energy and hold the enemies where they are. He use a longbow to do strong attacks from far behind. The new binding rituals summon strong spirits to attack or support. 
Improvement: Pet like ranger, long range attacks possible

 

Elementalist

The "mystic" can collect raw energy from the flow of magic and use it to switch to a strong arcane avatar. He uses a offhand mace to channel strong elemental attacks like a avalanche or meteor. The new elemental towers control the battlefield. 
Improvement: short time hard pressure available, area control

 

Mesmer

The "chaos smith" can create powerful chaos weapon bundles to be prepared for every situation. His new weapon is a mainhand pistol to cripple enemies. The new transformation skills bring benefits and are stronger when they can consume boons for a stronger effect.
Improvement: New weapon bundles like from elemenentalist, direct damage range weapon

Edited June 19, 2022 by Iustitian.9176

[Mesket.5728]

Since most espec concept is a class mix, and knowing how Anet has such a hard time nailing a warrior design; I think they'll go safe and do one they are confident they'll do right.. i foresee:

 

Warrior/Mesmer: The Clown

 

A warrior that Anet already knows how to do.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Mesket.5728