This is silly.

[Despond.2174]

It's definitely a good time to be a mesmar. The best pvp dueler, and now 2 very high viable pve builds.

[musu.9205]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Would rather this gets fixed fast, I do not want to see Mes get the scourge treatment

This.

I actually really love how people here react (being serious, not sarcastic) to an overtune.

We finally are top dps spot, with a sort of simple rotation, and even though mesmer has never been in this spot people are suddenly concerned with balance as a whole.

I remember a lot of other class forums going:"No it's fine, leave it" etc. to justify their class being totally broken. Let's hope arenanet sees it the same way and does a small numbers tweak (which it is essentially combined with bugfix) to correct the mistake instead of removing the elite from the game.

EDIT: I do kind of wonder how Robert Gee feels about all of this. I mean he must be sitting there going:"What do they want from me? They've been moaning all this time about how terrible their damage is, now their top dps and they still complain. Damned if you do, damned if you don't." We are a fickle mesmer community aren't we B)

well ele forum :"NO ITS NOT FINE WE ARE ONLY DOING 40K DPS NOW < THE WORLD IS ENDING ANET HATES US " ./s

[Hot Boy.7138]

@"Refia Montes.3205" said:

Even on small

I need help with my stats. Idk how you're getting 2020 condition damage. Excluding the +5 infusions in every slot, I'm short 118 condition damage. Where is it coming from?

[Kas.3509]

Id prefer for it to be worth to use phantasms. I mean.. I believe in PVE mesmer SHOULD be top dmg (as we provide nothing useful outside of dmg really...), but not that higher than others. It should be on par with other builds that provide nothing for the party :P.

On the other hand -> on everyboss that cleaves/does aoe dmg/moves a lot these clones wont live or keep up. So its just good on slow single target with no cleave or aoe attacks.

As for necros... necros will never do much damage on currents specs. The problem is they have too much survivability that allows you to face tank everything due to shrouds/shields (reaper/scourge), shields also bring a lot to party, and they have epi which is a great thing in many places with current condi meta. So they cant have top survivability and top dmg.

[Sojourner.4621]

@Kas.3509 said:Id prefer for it to be worth to use phantasms. I mean.. I believe in PVE mesmer SHOULD be top dmg (as we provide nothing useful outside of dmg really...), but not that higher than others. It should be on par with other builds that provide nothing for the party :P.

On the other hand -> on everyboss that cleaves/does aoe dmg/moves a lot these clones wont live or keep up. So its just good on slow single target with no cleave or aoe attacks.

As for necros... necros will never do much damage on currents specs. The problem is they have too much survivability that allows you to face tank everything due to shrouds/shields (reaper/scourge), shields also bring a lot to party, and they have epi which is a great thing in many places with current condi meta. So they cant have top survivability and top dmg.

Power thief (daredevil and deadeye both) currently does garbage damage now that GotL is gone.

[SuperduperMLGbsns.9345]

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I need help with my stats. Idk how you're getting 2020 condition damage. Excluding the +5 infusions in every slot, I'm short 118 condition damage. Where is it coming from?Berserk/Renegade Runes 5% extra condi dmg are shown in the calculator as well but not ingame. Take off 1 Rune in the calc to see the difference

[Veprovina.4876]

What gear is this person using?

[Mikeskies.1536]

I had someone with the 40k DPS clone build last night on Gorseval only pulling 12k DPS. I was expecting at least 25k, if not 30, based on buff uptime. Not sure if person was bad or if clones were not surviving, or what.

[OriOri.8724]

@musu.9205 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Would rather this gets fixed fast, I do not want to see Mes get the scourge treatment

This.

I actually really love how people here react (being serious, not sarcastic) to an overtune.

We finally are top dps spot, with a sort of simple rotation, and even though mesmer has never been in this spot people are suddenly concerned with balance as a whole.

I remember a lot of other class forums going:"No it's fine, leave it" etc. to justify their class being totally broken. Let's hope arenanet sees it the same way and does a small numbers tweak (which it is essentially combined with bugfix) to correct the mistake instead of removing the elite from the game.

EDIT: I do kind of wonder how Robert Gee feels about all of this. I mean he must be sitting there going:"What do they want from me? They've been moaning all this time about how terrible their damage is, now their top dps and they still complain. Damned if you do, damned if you don't." We are a fickle mesmer community aren't we B)

well ele forum :"NO ITS NOT FINE WE ARE ONLY DOING 40K DPS NOW < THE WORLD IS ENDING ANET HATES US " ./s

Yea the ele forum are some of the worst considering ele has been top DPS pretty much forever, even after any nerf they get, they are still at the top.

[Cwnannwn.7681]

Ele and War are the golden child and cannot bear to go down from the top.

[Hot Boy.7138]

@SuperduperMLGbsns.9345 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I need help with my stats. Idk how you're getting 2020 condition damage. Excluding the +5 infusions in every slot, I'm short 118 condition damage. Where is it coming from?Berserk/Renegade Runes 5% extra condi dmg are shown in the calculator as well but not ingame. Take off 1 Rune in the calc to see the difference

oohh okay thank you

[zealex.9410]

@Cwnannwn.7681 said:Ele and War are the golden child and cannot bear to go down from the top.

Ele was designed as THE dps class. Mesmer not so much and it has good support regardless of what spec they go in. Warrior on the other hand idk if they are top dps material.

[Lighter.5631]

@Cwnannwn.7681 said:Ele and War are the golden child and cannot bear to go down from the top.

?says chrono the gold child himself since HoT? i wouldnt say mightbot a golden child, but yea, enjoy the nerf

[Kas.3509]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cwnannwn.7681 said:Ele and War are the golden child and cannot bear to go down from the top.

Ele was designed as THE dps class. Mesmer not so much and it has good support regardless of what spec they go in. Warrior on the other hand idk if they are top dps material.You really think mirage has good support? Imo not really.

@Mikeskies.1536 said:I had someone with the 40k DPS clone build last night on Gorseval only pulling 12k DPS. I was expecting at least 25k, if not 30, based on buff uptime. Not sure if person was bad or if clones were not surviving, or what.

Yeah I think that might be the case... On golem its easy for clones to survive. But in most of raids its differnt matter. Phantasms may survive but clones? Not so much : <

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@Kas.3509 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cwnannwn.7681 said:Ele and War are the golden child and cannot bear to go down from the top.

Ele was designed as THE dps class. Mesmer not so much and it has good support regardless of what spec they go in. Warrior on the other hand idk if they are top dps material.You really think mirage has good support? Imo not really.

@Mikeskies.1536 said:I had someone with the 40k DPS clone build last night on Gorseval only pulling 12k DPS. I was expecting at least 25k, if not 30, based on buff uptime. Not sure if person was bad or if clones were not surviving, or what.

Yeah I think that might be the case... On golem its easy for clones to survive. But in most of raids its differnt matter. Phantasms may survive but clones? Not so much : <

You seem to be rather misinformed about illusions in PvE. When they are not directly targeted (read: always), they receive 95% reduced damage. Since clones have about 4000 HP, this means that they need to receive about 80000 damage before they die. I'm confident that you can produce clones faster than bosses cleave them with 80000 damage.

[Toeofdoom.6152]

Clones have about 60-70% of the hp of phantasms iirc which isn't that bad, even if they are in melee range. Remember your clones literally dodge with you too if attacks are a problem!

In my experience mirage dps can vary considerably within a squad, even with the phantasm build, as much as it is a simple rotation. Staying on the boss and ambushing regularly is critical and I expect that to get more important with this build. The mirage cloak dodge can really throw people off.

[Amenon.9126]

While this looks good and all feels great, what a lot of you are not taking into account is that this build cant dodge, in order to do all that damage. Now you try playing all your classes without dodging and say "its easy". While every other class doing "good DPS" on the golem can pull it off in a raid, too, its not the same for Mirage, as you HAVE to use dodge in raid scenarios.

[Zenith.7301]

A spec with no aoe or utility worth a damn should be one of the top DPS specs by far, period.

Mirage has no cleave, nor burst, no CC outside a 180 sec cd moa unless you want to send your damage down the drain using signets, and it offers no group boons or damage aura.

People need to get a grip.

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Amenon.9126 said:While this looks good and all feels great, what a lot of you are not taking into account is that this build cant dodge, in order to do all that damage. Now you try playing all your classes without dodging and say "its easy". While every other class doing "good DPS" on the golem can pull it off in a raid, too, its not the same for Mirage, as you HAVE to use dodge in raid scenarios.

No not really. This is Mirage we're talking about. With a longer duration dodge, Axe 3, Sigil of Energy, Mirrors it has enough dodges to cover all attacks.

[Zenith.7301]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Amenon.9126 said:While this looks good and all feels great, what a lot of you are not taking into account is that this build cant dodge, in order to do all that damage. Now you try playing all your classes without dodging and say "its easy". While every other class doing "good DPS" on the golem can pull it off in a raid, too, its not the same for Mirage, as you HAVE to use dodge in raid scenarios.

No not really. This is Mirage we're talking about. With a longer duration dodge, Axe 3, Sigil of Energy, Mirrors it has enough dodges to cover all attacks.

Mirrors are not a reliable reactive defense even remotely. It's all in axe 3 and the dodges.

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Zenith.7301 said:A spec with no aoe or utility worth a kitten should be one of the top DPS specs by far, period.

Mirage has no cleave, nor burst, no CC outside a 180 sec cd moa unless you want to send your damage down the drain using signets, and it offers no group boons or damage aura.

People need to get a grip.

Not exactly, DPS should be toned down a bit, but not that low. As it stands Mirage is a pretty safe class due to having dodges in the rotation and being able to not lose DPS while dodging unlike other classes. It's also relatively not that squishy with a medium healthbar, able to provide Reflects in scenarios where it is needed, strong CC with the help of Moa. Jaunt may help in increasing dps, but the dps loss from it isn't that great.

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Amenon.9126 said:While this looks good and all feels great, what a lot of you are not taking into account is that this build cant dodge, in order to do all that damage. Now you try playing all your classes without dodging and say "its easy". While every other class doing "good DPS" on the golem can pull it off in a raid, too, its not the same for Mirage, as you HAVE to use dodge in raid scenarios.

No not really. This is Mirage we're talking about. With a longer duration dodge, Axe 3, Sigil of Energy, Mirrors it has enough dodges to cover all attacks.

Mirrors are not a reliable reactive defense even remotely. It's all in axe 3 and the dodges.

It isn't but you have more dodges than other classes, except Daredevil due to having Sigil of Energy. Having passive defenses from Mirrors helps out as well.

[Zenith.7301]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:A spec with no aoe or utility worth a kitten should be one of the top DPS specs by far, period.

Mirage has no cleave, nor burst, no CC outside a 180 sec cd moa unless you want to send your damage down the drain using signets, and it offers no group boons or damage aura.

People need to get a grip.

Not exactly, DPS should be toned down a bit, but not that low. As it stands Mirage is a pretty safe class due to having dodges in the rotation and being able to not lose DPS while dodging unlike other classes. It's also relatively not that squishy with a medium healthbar, able to provide Reflects in scenarios where it is needed, strong CC with the help of Moa. Jaunt may help in increasing dps, but the dps loss from it isn't that great.

Survivability is irrelevant in content where weavers have no issue surviving and condi daredevils has as many dodges and evade frames if not more and better group utility via really strong low cd cc bar damage.

Single target condition damage ramp up classes should be doing more damage than classes with frontloaded damage and cleaving capacity, cc, and utility, period.

[Azukas.1426]

Welp time to take up the good fight as I did with Chrono on release.....

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:A spec with no aoe or utility worth a kitten should be one of the top DPS specs by far, period.

Mirage has no cleave, nor burst, no CC outside a 180 sec cd moa unless you want to send your damage down the drain using signets, and it offers no group boons or damage aura.

People need to get a grip.

Not exactly, DPS should be toned down a bit, but not that low. As it stands Mirage is a pretty safe class due to having dodges in the rotation and being able to not lose DPS while dodging unlike other classes. It's also relatively not that squishy with a medium healthbar, able to provide Reflects in scenarios where it is needed, strong CC with the help of Moa. Jaunt may help in increasing dps, but the dps loss from it isn't that great.

Survivability is irrelevant in content where weavers have no issue surviving and condi daredevils has as many dodges and evade frames if not more and better group utility via really strong low cd cc bar damage.

Single target condition damage ramp up classes should be doing more damage than classes with frontloaded damage and cleaving capacity, cc, and utility, period.

As much as I want to agree with that statement at the end, keep in mind this thing is way over the top. I agree with that, just that currently it does need nerfs, as the dps it provides is much more than any class in the game, a 1-3k dps difference should be good enough, but nothing like 7k dps difference.