This is silly.

[Carighan.6758]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

Meh, it was okay when Tempests did that and more for a year. So I'm not overly sold on the idea that immediate action is required.

[Bod.8261]

@Carighan.6758 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

Meh, it was okay when Tempests did that and more for a year. So I'm not overly sold on the idea that immediate action is required.All specs that were overperforming due to a bug or unintended scaling were nerfed pretty quick - Firebrand, Scourge.

Nowhere on Imaginary Axes does it state that the attack pierces or should hit twice, so expect a bugfix in about 2 weeks.

[OriOri.8724]

@Carighan.6758 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

Meh, it was okay when Tempests did that and more for a year. So I'm not overly sold on the idea that immediate action is required.

While I get where you are coming from, I have to disagree. I think that any spec hitting about 35K dps is doing way too much damage. Especially now with the changes to PS and GotL where a lot of raid groups have gotten 1 or 2 more DPS slots, bosses are (I assume, I don't raid myself) melting way faster than they ever were prePoF (I'm going to ignore the stupid DPS burst that weaver was capable of before this patch). No spec needs to be doing anything more than 35K, and personally I would push that top DPS down to around 30-32K and nerf everything else accordingly.

[FaboBabo.3581]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Carighan.6758 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

Meh, it was okay when Tempests did that and more for a year. So I'm not overly sold on the idea that immediate action is required.

While I get where you are coming from, I have to disagree. I think that any spec hitting about 35K dps is doing way too much damage. Especially now with the changes to PS and GotL where a lot of raid groups have gotten 1 or 2 more DPS slots, bosses are (I assume, I don't raid myself) melting way faster than they ever were prePoF (I'm going to ignore the stupid DPS burst that weaver was capable of before this patch). No spec needs to be doing anything more than 35K, and personally I would push that top DPS down to around 30-32K and nerf everything else accordingly.

BUT BUT THEN ALL CLASSES ARE USELESS !!11!!!1!!11!

^^

[ArthurDent.9538]

20k Confusion ticks on a training golem is pretty disgusting, the damage truly becomes absurd on bosses that actually use skills to trigger the extra confusion damage.

[Hitman.5829]

Have you ever wonder why developers always have mesmers, thieves and necros? well now you know why!

[Cyninja.2954]

@Hitman.5829 said:Have you ever wonder why developers always have mesmers, thieves and necros? well now you know why!

Are you serious?

[OriOri.8724]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:Have you ever wonder why developers always have mesmers, thieves and necros? well now you know why!

Are you serious?

He's either a really good troll, or he honestly believes that warriors have always been underpowered and never need any nerfs whatsoever, but every other class is always overperforming in every aspect.

[Refia Montes.3205]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:20k Confusion ticks on a training golem is pretty disgusting, the damage truly becomes absurd on bosses that actually use skills to trigger the extra confusion damage.

It's not that big. Every time they proc confusion it deals about7-8k damage. It does add, but not that much since Raid bosses don't attack as often as players. It adds about 1-3k dps depending on the boss.

[FaboBabo.3581]

when scourge hit 38 k dps while havin barriers for days scourges were ; its ok u just need to learn playing.when mirage hits 42 k dps, while havin nothing else mesmers are ; well thats a bit too much, even if we dont have anything else.

Others ; MIRAGE TOO OP ; TRAITLINE GIVES HUGE SUSTAIN + 42K DPS ; ELE ISNT TOP DPS ; NERF ASAP. MIRAGE SUSTAIN NEEDS NERF TOO

• what is mirage's sustain?

DONT KNOW NEEDS NURF!!!!PERMA STEALTH!!!111!!!111!!!PERMA BLINK!!!PERMA EVADEMIRAGE ONE SHOTED ME WITH TORCH + GS COMBO ; MIRAGE OP

....Whats this community xD ?

and now tbh, i would be happy if mirage traitline actually gets a little bit sustain, even on the cost of some axe nerfs. (because u cant really nerf the dmg of the mirage - traitline ; there is none except riddle....)

[Refia Montes.3205]

@FaboBabo.3581 said:when scourge hit 38 k dps while havin barriers for days scourges were ; its ok u just need to learn playing.when mirage hits 42 k dps, while havin nothing else mesmers are ; well thats a bit too much, even if we dont have anything else.

Others ; MIRAGE TOO OP ; TRAITLINE GIVES HUGE SUSTAIN + 42K DPS ; ELE ISNT TOP DPS ; NERF ASAP. MIRAGE SUSTAIN NEEDS NERF TOO

• what is mirage's sustain?

DONT KNOW NEEDS NURF!!!!PERMA STEALTH!!!111!!!111!!!PERMA BLINK!!!PERMA EVADEMIRAGE ONE SHOTED ME WITH TORCH + GS COMBO ; MIRAGE OP

....Whats this community xD ?

and now tbh, i would be happy if mirage traitline actually gets a little bit sustain, even on the cost of some axe nerfs. (because u cant really nerf the dmg of the mirage - traitline ; there is none except riddle....)

Still needs nerfs, specially considering there's a class wide 10% nerf to everyone with the loss of GoTL that they're now around 30-35k now.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@FaboBabo.3581 said:when scourge hit 38 k dps while havin barriers for days scourges were ; its ok u just need to learn playing.when mirage hits 42 k dps, while havin nothing else mesmers are ; well thats a bit too much, even if we dont have anything else.

Others ; MIRAGE TOO OP ; TRAITLINE GIVES HUGE SUSTAIN + 42K DPS ; ELE ISNT TOP DPS ; NERF ASAP. MIRAGE SUSTAIN NEEDS NERF TOO

• what is mirage's sustain?

DONT KNOW NEEDS NURF!!!!PERMA STEALTH!!!111!!!111!!!PERMA BLINK!!!PERMA EVADEMIRAGE ONE SHOTED ME WITH TORCH + GS COMBO ; MIRAGE OP

....Whats this community xD ?

If this is a surprise you haven't been paying attention since launch. It's basically a side effect of the mesmer mechanics being extremely punishing for bad players. Being bad, their obvious solution is to run to the forums and scream and shout instead of just learning and getting better.

[OriOri.8724]

@FaboBabo.3581 said:when scourge hit 38 k dps while havin barriers for days scourges were ; its ok u just need to learn playing.when mirage hits 42 k dps, while havin nothing else mesmers are ; well thats a bit too much, even if we dont have anything else.

Others ; MIRAGE TOO OP ; TRAITLINE GIVES HUGE SUSTAIN + 42K DPS ; ELE ISNT TOP DPS ; NERF ASAP. MIRAGE SUSTAIN NEEDS NERF TOO

• what is mirage's sustain?

DONT KNOW NEEDS NURF!!!!PERMA STEALTH!!!111!!!111!!!PERMA BLINK!!!PERMA EVADEMIRAGE ONE SHOTED ME WITH TORCH + GS COMBO ; MIRAGE OP

....Whats this community xD ?

and now tbh, i would be happy if mirage traitline actually gets a little bit sustain, even on the cost of some axe nerfs. (because u cant really nerf the dmg of the mirage - traitline ; there is none except riddle....)

Mirage's sustain comes from dodges that last 33% longer and from mirage mirrors. Its just that the only ways to get mirrors are tied up in a few deception skills and 1 trait that affects distortion. But the sustain is there if you want it

[Solori.6025]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@takatsu.9416 said:After 5 years, mesmer finally has a viable DPS spot? Lol I think it's a reason to celebrate even if you don't play mesmer loll something new after all!

The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

No where is it a written rule Weavers should be the top DPS in all scenerio'sFaulty logic.

And Why are people still making a big deal out of a bug?

[Amineo.8951]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@takatsu.9416 said:After 5 years, mesmer finally has a viable DPS spot? Lol I think it's a reason to celebrate even if you don't play mesmer loll something new after all!

The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

No where is it a written rule Weavers should be the top DPS in all scenerio'sFaulty logic.

And Why are people still making a big deal out of a bug?

Weaver still has the AOEs and Fire fields which makes it better than Mirage in most scenarios, and they don't need to change their gear to play Tempest. I think Mirage maybe needs to be toned down a bit, but it surely deserves to deal a lot of DPS because it's more dangerous to play than everything else unlike Soulbeast for example.

Stuff that needs adjustements atm:-Firebrand Support-Power Reaper and Condi Scourge-Power Daredevil and Deadeye-Spellbreaker-Herald

[zealex.9410]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:20k Confusion ticks on a training golem is pretty disgusting, the damage truly becomes absurd on bosses that actually use skills to trigger the extra confusion damage.

It's not that big. Every time they proc confusion it deals about7-8k damage. It does add, but not that much since Raid bosses don't attack as often as players. It adds about 1-3k dps depending on the boss.

Bubut base confusion and torment ticks hit for the same value as bleed. So 20k isnt that crazy but the whole package is over the top.

[zealex.9410]

@Amineo.8951 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@takatsu.9416 said:After 5 years, mesmer finally has a viable DPS spot? Lol I think it's a reason to celebrate even if you don't play mesmer loll something new after all!

The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

No where is it a written rule Weavers should be the top DPS in all scenerio'sFaulty logic.

And Why are people still making a big deal out of a bug?

Weaver still has the AOEs and Fire fields which makes it better than Mirage in most scenarios, and they don't need to change their gear to play Tempest. I think Mirage maybe needs to be toned down a bit, but it surely deserves to deal a lot of DPS because it's more dangerous to play than everything else unlike Soulbeast for example.

Stuff that needs adjustements atm:-Firebrand Support-Power Reaper and Condi Scourge-Power Daredevil and Deadeye-Spellbreaker-Herald

Reaper was around 27k dps how much does it do now?

[Amineo.8951]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@takatsu.9416 said:After 5 years, mesmer finally has a viable DPS spot? Lol I think it's a reason to celebrate even if you don't play mesmer loll something new after all!

The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

No where is it a written rule Weavers should be the top DPS in all scenerio'sFaulty logic.

And Why are people still making a big deal out of a bug?

Weaver still has the AOEs and Fire fields which makes it better than Mirage in most scenarios, and they don't need to change their gear to play Tempest. I think Mirage maybe needs to be toned down a bit, but it surely deserves to deal a lot of DPS because it's more dangerous to play than everything else unlike Soulbeast for example.

Stuff that needs adjustements atm:-Firebrand Support-Power Reaper and Condi Scourge-Power Daredevil and Deadeye-Spellbreaker-Herald

Reaper was around 27k dps how much does it do now?

I don't know now, I didn't see any benchmark for Reaper post-patch, but it should be between 30-34k at least.

[Zenith.7301]

lmao no it isn't.

Reaper pre-patch was 24-25k realistic.

After patch it's around 28k DPS. Nowhere near 34k WTF are you people smoking.

Necromancer is bar none the worst class in PvE.

[Solori.6025]

@Amineo.8951 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@takatsu.9416 said:After 5 years, mesmer finally has a viable DPS spot? Lol I think it's a reason to celebrate even if you don't play mesmer loll something new after all!

The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

No where is it a written rule Weavers should be the top DPS in all scenerio'sFaulty logic.

And Why are people still making a big deal out of a bug?

Weaver still has the AOEs and Fire fields which makes it better than Mirage in most scenarios, and they don't need to change their gear to play Tempest. I think Mirage maybe needs to be toned down a bit, but it surely deserves to deal a lot of DPS because it's more dangerous to play than everything else unlike Soulbeast for example.

Stuff that needs adjustements atm:-Firebrand Support-Power Reaper and Condi Scourge-Power Daredevil and Deadeye-Spellbreaker-Herald

Not a tone down, a bug fix, bug fix puts it in line with everything else..

except weaver

and I'm betting not a single person wanting mes to get nerfed to the ground is even going to care about weaver being Top of the class again

[zealex.9410]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@takatsu.9416 said:After 5 years, mesmer finally has a viable DPS spot? Lol I think it's a reason to celebrate even if you don't play mesmer loll something new after all!

The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

No where is it a written rule Weavers should be the top DPS in all scenerio'sFaulty logic.

And Why are people still making a big deal out of a bug?

Weaver still has the AOEs and Fire fields which makes it better than Mirage in most scenarios, and they don't need to change their gear to play Tempest. I think Mirage maybe needs to be toned down a bit, but it surely deserves to deal a lot of DPS because it's more dangerous to play than everything else unlike Soulbeast for example.

Stuff that needs adjustements atm:-Firebrand Support-Power Reaper and Condi Scourge-Power Daredevil and Deadeye-Spellbreaker-Herald

Not a tone down, a bug fix, bug fix puts it in line with everything else..

except weaver

and I'm betting not a single person wanting mes to get nerfed to the ground is even going to care about weaver being Top of the class again

Nah i want to see them both nerfed. But ele should be higher still since it has no utility. Unlike mesmer which has a tone of it.

[Garr.1823]

Mesmer is imba atm.Long ago mesmer had ~4 working builds

Silly but OP 1v1 phantasm build - but mediocre in team fights and totally useless in zergs.Shatter build - default build that is still ok and even more dangerous in fact with +30% dmg trait and elite spec. Nice in 1 v 1 and team fights, useless in zergs.Confusion build - it was so OP that confusion was nerfed hard (still it will come back with new confusion passive damage and sets like trailbalzer/viper)Just heavy greatsword range DPS build with mantras. Poor 1 v 1, ok for team, great for zergs.

And - mesmer never had a really good DPS. Spike damage, invis, blinks, etc - but never DPS.At the current state of a game mesmer has good DPS, even better survivability than before, insane condition damage (that's not class mechanic fault - it's the problem of conditions in general), great spike damage.

...when I wrote all of this I realized that it's a game mechanic fault, not profession mechanic. It's just TOO MUCH DAMAGE in this game, it should be tuned down for all to the level when phantasms will become a good option, like it was before.

[OriOri.8724]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@takatsu.9416 said:After 5 years, mesmer finally has a viable DPS spot? Lol I think it's a reason to celebrate even if you don't play mesmer loll something new after all!

The issue is that it is doing too much damage. I had a Mirage outdpsing Weavers on Samarog. The DPS needs to be toned down by 5-8k.

No where is it a written rule Weavers should be the top DPS in all scenerio'sFaulty logic.

And Why are people still making a big deal out of a bug?

Weaver still has the AOEs and Fire fields which makes it better than Mirage in most scenarios, and they don't need to change their gear to play Tempest. I think Mirage maybe needs to be toned down a bit, but it surely deserves to deal a lot of DPS because it's more dangerous to play than everything else unlike Soulbeast for example.

Stuff that needs adjustements atm:-Firebrand Support-Power Reaper and Condi Scourge-Power Daredevil and Deadeye-Spellbreaker-Herald

Not a tone down, a bug fix, bug fix puts it in line with everything else..

except weaver

and I'm betting not a single person wanting mes to get nerfed to the ground is even going to care about weaver being Top of the class again

Nah i want to see them both nerfed. But ele should be higher still since it has no utility. Unlike mesmer which has a tone of it.

The DPS build on mirage brings no group utility

[Funky.4861]

@Kas.3509 said:Id prefer for it to be worth to use phantasms. I mean.. I believe in PVE mesmer SHOULD be top dmg (as we provide nothing useful outside of dmg really...), but not that higher than others. It should be on par with other builds that provide nothing for the party :P.

On the other hand -> on everyboss that cleaves/does aoe dmg/moves a lot these clones wont live or keep up. So its just good on slow single target with no cleave or aoe attacks.

As for necros... necros will never do much damage on currents specs. The problem is they have too much survivability that allows you to face tank everything due to shrouds/shields (reaper/scourge), shields also bring a lot to party, and they have epi which is a great thing in many places with current condi meta. So they cant have top survivability and top dmg.

Necros have nowhere near the survivability of other classes, esp since last patch nerf to RS (and the previous patchs' vital persistance and speed of shadows nerfs to DS/SS which also affect RS). By 'shield' i'm assuming u mean barrier, which is not wanted in most raid groups, epidemic is only useful if there are adds (more so if the adds last long enough for an epi bounce). So they don't have top survivabilty and at best mediocre damage (apart from a few niche situations). Necros bring no real utility to a group and even if their dps was buffed by a flat 50% it still wouldn't be as high as an ele, which also has utility.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Funky.4861 said:

@Kas.3509 said:Id prefer for it to be worth to use phantasms. I mean.. I believe in PVE mesmer SHOULD be top dmg (as we provide nothing useful outside of dmg really...), but not that higher than others. It should be on par with other builds that provide nothing for the party :P.

On the other hand -> on everyboss that cleaves/does aoe dmg/moves a lot these clones wont live or keep up. So its just good on slow single target with no cleave or aoe attacks.

As for necros... necros will never do much damage on currents specs. The problem is they have too much survivability that allows you to face tank everything due to shrouds/shields (reaper/scourge), shields also bring a lot to party, and they have epi which is a great thing in many places with current condi meta. So they cant have top survivability and top dmg.

Necros have nowhere near the survivability of other classes, esp since last patch nerf to RS (and the previous patchs' vital persistance and speed of shadows nerfs to DS/SS which also affect RS). By 'shield' i'm assuming u mean barrier, which is not wanted in most raid groups, epidemic is only useful if there are adds (more so if the adds last long enough for an epi bounce). So they don't have top survivabilty and at best mediocre damage (apart from a few niche situations). Necros bring no real utility to a group and even if their dps was buffed by a flat 50% it still wouldn't be as high as an ele, which also has utility.

Yes after having to get toned down from Scrouge overpoweredness at PoF launch. The 1 class which beat Spellbreaker in how overpowered it was when PoF hit, so much that arenanet actually nerfed it even befor the balance patch released.

Also glasscanon necro is more durable than most other classes even with reduced shroud unless in a group enviroment where people cover each other. There is a reason why many people still run 4 necro comps in T4 fractals even though they are far FAR away from performing as efficiently as a meta group. The 2 main reasons being, shroud and epidemic share.

Do necros need love? Yes, but don't come here being all sad and moppy 1 week after a balance patch changed the classes survivability. This is double true for pre PoF.