Boons in Gw2 and the slow removal of class specific purposes

[NumNums.7935]

Watched mightytpots video on the subreddit posts on warrior and druid changes and this part that he is discussing boons purpose and balance has me really thinking about pve and pvp to an extent.

 

@10:25 mobile won't let me copy with timestamp.

 

 

 

Due to most instanced content being coordinated around maxing offensive and sometimes defensive boons, the balance has to be made to that spec.

 

The issue is this makes the boons feel less beneficial and more as just a necessity. Which has me thinking 🤔 well whats the point. 

 

Imagine you removed or dramatically decreased the application of normal boons and balanced dps/hps requirements (remember there is a dodge key so really good groups may need less party healing). Then when you get a class that applies a beneficial bonus it actually feels like a plus instead of just meeting standard.

 

Yes I know a lot of content is still power creeped badly so all of this convo is kinda hard to have with current meta in mind since many of the current strikes and raids can be done 5 man.

[Veprovina.4876]

The problem with boons is that most of them directly or indirectly affect DPS in this game. 

And DPS in GW2 is the only way to pass content.

 

Might, fury directly improve your DPS.

Quickness and Alacrity indirectly. 

 

The rest might not even exist if it wasn't for WvW where they're useful as opposed to PvE. Like... Resolution in PvE? Did you ever really applied this to yourself or your group with purpose? Or did you all just go for the dodge key and direct healing, right?

 

Like, sure, some are good for survivability, but that's about it.

 

And what can Anet really do about it? For a lot of encounters, DPS will let you skip mechanics. More DPS = less time the monster has to get you = less dodging, less dangerous. You're actually in more danger with toughness and vitality stats in PvE because you can't DPS as much, and being tanky means nothing in this game, you're still gonna get killed, just a bit later, but you won't be able to kill a mob (of nondescript variety). 

 

So what do you do? More DPS.

 

So what does Anet do?

Design awful encounters where more DPS is needed to offset the power creep - instead of addressing the power creep.

 

It's like they "wrote themselves in a corner" with how essential 4 boons are to the game, and now they're giving it to everyone cause they don't know what else to do. 

Old encounters are made too easy, and newer encounters are made to be damage sponges because DPS...

 

It's how they made the system, but i'm not sure what they can do to it other than drastically change how the game works... 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

14 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

The problem with boons is that most of them directly or indirectly affect DPS in this game. 

And DPS in GW2 is the only way to pass content.

 

Might, fury directly improve your DPS.

Quickness and Alacrity indirectly. 

 

The rest might not even exist if it wasn't for WvW where they're useful as opposed to PvE. Like... Resolution in PvE? Did you ever really applied this to yourself or your group with purpose? Or did you all just go for the dodge key and direct healing, right?

 

Like, sure, some are good for survivability, but that's about it.

 

And what can Anet really do about it? For a lot of encounters, DPS will let you skip mechanics. More DPS = less time the monster has to get you = less dodging, less dangerous. You're actually in more danger with toughness and vitality stats in PvE because you can't DPS as much, and being tanky means nothing in this game, you're still gonna get killed, just a bit later, but you won't be able to kill a mob (of nondescript variety). 

 

So what do you do? More DPS.

 

So what does Anet do?

Design awful encounters where more DPS is needed to offset the power creep - instead of addressing the power creep.

 

It's like they "wrote themselves in a corner" with how essential 4 boons are to the game, and now they're giving it to everyone cause they don't know what else to do. 

Old encounters are made too easy, and newer encounters are made to be damage sponges because DPS...

 

It's how they made the system, but i'm not sure what they can do to it other than drastically change how the game works... 

 

There is a big misconception that defensive boons like Aegis, protection, regen and to an extent resolution and stability doesnt affect DPS. Those boons allows you to reduce the amount of time you spend healing while also reducing the chance of dying, which indirectly increase your damage. 

 

Putting aside one shots mecanic, giving your sub group perma protection for instance allows the healer to spend less time healing and do some DPS. Yeah it's not a lot but if you stack on multiple encounter, that's how you end up with good time result. 

[Sarius.9285]

2 hours ago, NumNums.7935 said:

Imagine you removed or dramatically decreased the application of normal boons and balanced dps/hps requirements (remember there is a dodge key so really good groups may need less party healing). Then when you get a class that applies a beneficial bonus it actually feels like a plus instead of just meeting standard.

the problem is, that wouldn't change anything. People would still require them because they're a big PLUS, even if you nerf might by 50%, its still a damage increase 

[Gripz.5683]

I think we should keep in mind that defensive boons along with healing dramatically increase dps as it allows a stacked group to just keep standing and apply max dps where if you'd strip all the stab, prot, regen etc. We'd have a much harder time actualy applying damage AND offensive boons such a qyuckness and alac. Its kinda hard to apply these with a low radius.

 

People dramatically underestimate the value of these boons imo. Resolution just plain sucks in pve unless your a guardian who relies on it for increased crit %.

[Erise.5614]

There's really a lot of stuff in this topic and I have some opinions about it that are conflicting in some way or another.

TLDR: More strongly defined roles allow for easier group management and improving existing systems (e.g. LFG). But take away freedom and reduce variety. Less efficient boons can contribute to lower skill and efficiency gaps. Fostering community education, especially in PUGs. A larger revamp would be even better. But it would wreck balance and has serious potential to harm the game.

To start out. The focus on boon supports has some very positive attributes. Specifically now that they seem to tone it down a lot and focus it on a limited set of mandatory boons and some utility / situational boons. Especially for group management and possibly to eventually bring LFG updates. Just the ability for the commander to color code or otherwise label players would be huge. Just displaying that in LFG would make a huge difference. And by standardizing support roles and moving towards a more rigid set of primary roles it also smooths out the learning curve and makes it easier to understand and do well. But that very thing is also holding back other things. You have less freedom. The "play what you want" definitely gets the short end of the stick here. I mean, yeah. Technically you can play what you want. But practically you play different flavors of the same thing. It certainly comes at the cost of variety.

Then there is the DPS gap topic. Some of those boons are fine. They add a certain amount of damage to your output. Might like fury. By playing in a specific group you can min/max a little. But then there's quickness and alacrity. Both making everything you do better by a percentage. After all modifiers and existing multipliers. They up your DPS by somewhere around 25%-33% each. (25% = you don't maximize efficiency)

Assuming 25% and assuming you deal 5k DPS by default, you gain ~2.8k DPS. Assuming you deal 10k DPS, you gain 5.6k DPS.

In other words, your output scales up exponentially. The better you are, the more, more better your output is. This creates a huge efficiency gap that makes it harder to understand how to improve your build or rotation and widens the gap between excellent players and players who still learn. A problem because content can not be balanced for both. One side might find certain content hilariously easy while the other will find it impossible. So whenever new content is created, ANet has to very deliberately choose a point on the skill range to balance for. Which ends up underserving experienced players while small increases in challenge still overextend learning players. Decreasing this gap would help the game and future content in a lot of ways. And just to clarify. I am not talking about removing skill from the game. But by reducing multiplicative effectiveness and shrinking the DPS difference from 10x to maybe 3x, it would be less punishing to take newer players with you and explain things along the way. It would make it more convenient to get inexperienced players (who are willing to learn) into a position where they are taught by example. 

But can that actually happen? It would be the single biggest shift this game has ever seen. Quite likely the single biggest shift in a released (and seriously played) game's combat system ever. It would completely wreck the meta and balance of literally all content and take forever to fix across the entire game. 

So yeah. I do think boons as they exist right now are a problem. The original chrono quickness was explicitly for bursting during exposed. But ended up power creeping the game a lot while also widening the skill gap. Further detaching different parts of the  PvE community from one another. But there is no easy or even just a clear solution to it either. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Erise.5614

[SlayerXX.7138]

8 hours ago, Gripz.5683 said:

I think we should keep in mind that defensive boons along with healing dramatically increase dps as it allows a stacked group to just keep standing and apply max dps where if you'd strip all the stab, prot, regen etc. We'd have a much harder time actualy applying damage AND offensive boons such a qyuckness and alac. Its kinda hard to apply these with a low radius.

Case in Point: Boneskinner Strike.

I think movement orientated mechanics is they way to combat power creep. People still fail in whisper of jormag <with max boons> because they don't keep an eye on chains. People are so used to boons being the answer for everything it is hysterical. I joined LFGS where people standing in chains asked for more alac uptime after the wipe.

 

The problem right now is that almost every mechanic in endgame content can be made significant more easy by max boons. Even kiting something is easier with Protection, Regen and superspeed. 

 

 

[Veprovina.4876]

12 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

There is a big misconception that defensive boons like Aegis, protection, regen and to an extent resolution and stability doesnt affect DPS. Those boons allows you to reduce the amount of time you spend healing while also reducing the chance of dying, which indirectly increase your damage. 

 

Putting aside one shots mecanic, giving your sub group perma protection for instance allows the healer to spend less time healing and do some DPS. Yeah it's not a lot but if you stack on multiple encounter, that's how you end up with good time result. 

True. This is apparent on Raid bosses like Gorseval. Most of the mechanics there are meant to daze/stun you so you lose dps.

But that just kinda makes it worse, doesn't it? That the only thing that matters in this game is DPS?

I don't know...

 

Stilll. No one asks for "resolution/aegis/regen" in groups, most of what those provide can be offset by dodging, moving out of the aoe, or the DPS loss from not having them isn't as significant.

 

Anyway, the system is too hard coded to change now, and one thing pulls the other. Anet gives more boons, more people do more DPS, Anet has to design DPSsponge encounters, people can't do them, anet gives more boons, etc.

 

At least things are different in WvW. So there's that. You can't solve all your problems with DPS in WvW.

[Markus.6415]

I also didn't understand why they had to reduce the open world solo difficulty, since your Jade-Bot is giving you all the boons when you enter combat? Theres not even a mastery that is tied to that, it just does it automatically. So i somehow get used to having alac and quickness in solo content too, and a bunch of other boons of course.

[phandaria.4891]

17 hours ago, NumNums.7935 said:

The issue is this makes the boons feel less beneficial and more as just a necessity. Which has me thinking 🤔 well whats the point. 

 

Imagine you removed or dramatically decreased the application of normal boons and balanced dps/hps requirements (remember there is a dodge key so really good groups may need less party healing). Then when you get a class that applies a beneficial bonus it actually feels like a plus instead of just meeting standard.

 

Yes I know a lot of content is still power creeped badly so all of this convo is kinda hard to have with current meta in mind since many of the current strikes and raids can be done 5 man.

This is quite unfair. The one who create the "Meta" are the players, not Anet. Obviously the path of least resistance is what the players will gravitate towards and DPS is always and will always be the key component for any game period.

Even if the game is balanced without counting these boons, the players will almost always will choose it over no boons. And as you said, competent players can finish strikes and raids 5 man, meaning offensive boons are not a hard DPS check for 10 man group.

 

2 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Stilll. No one asks for "resolution/aegis/regen" in groups, most of what those provide can be offset by dodging, moving out of the aoe, or the DPS loss from not having them isn't as significant.

 

I think you don't get what Meta is. People want to get the highest possible chance of success, but at the same time minimize the hassle of organization. Quickness/Alac are meta because they give the highest plus that people bothered to spend time looking and organize them. Might/Fury also add significant amount, but they are so abundant that people don't bother searching. 

People also look for Heal/Barrier and Ress (e.g. Heal Scourge) because they give the biggest safety net.

Overall situation is a good thing as different specs can apply Quickness/Alac/Healing. It would be better as the roles spread to wider specs.

 

13 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

TLDR: More strongly defined roles allow for easier group management and improving existing systems (e.g. LFG). But take away freedom and reduce variety. Less efficient boons can contribute to lower skill and efficiency gaps. Fostering community education, especially in PUGs. A larger revamp would be even better. But it would wreck balance and has serious potential to harm the game.

...

But by reducing multiplicative effectiveness and shrinking the DPS difference from 10x to maybe 3x, it would be less punishing to take newer players with you and explain things along the way. It would make it more convenient to get inexperienced players (who are willing to learn) into a position where they are taught by example. 

Defined roles will only take away freedom if it only available to specific spec/class, but at the moment Quickness/Alac are quite well spread among different spec.

You don't bring up inexperienced/newer player skill by dumbing down all content. It is done by differentiation and progression from easy to difficult content. I believe Anet has done well here with the strikes and upcoming challenge mode.

A more positive way to encourage this is matchmaking of veteran and new/inexperienced player, as well as rewarding successful training, not by balancing every content to new player standard. For example, many guilds have run raid training to help new/inexperienced players; how can this be spread further, how can inexperienced player find training group and vice versa.

 

TLDR; Like it or not, there will always be a Meta. The wider the roles are spread the better for Meta.

Edited April 18, 2022 by phandaria.4891

[NumNums.7935]

5 hours ago, phandaria.4891 said:

This is quite unfair. The one who create the "Meta" are the players, not Anet. Obviously the path of least resistance is what the players will gravitate towards and DPS is always and will always be the key component for any game period.

I think I wasn't clear enough with my opinion. I think the issue is boon duration being to long. I understand groups will go for boons but max might, fury, quick and alac should only be available during small burst window making boon application more strategic and rewarding instead of just always being applied 100% of the time.

 

It will open users up to understanding fights better booning right before break bars to maximize damage at appropriate times 

[NumNums.7935]

19 hours ago, Sarius.9285 said:

the problem is, that wouldn't change anything. People would still require them because they're a big PLUS, even if you nerf might by 50%, its still a damage increase 

I think intensity is less of an issue to me, its more about duration. Similar to cc boons should have very low duration and supports would have to learn mechanics to understand best time to apply boons.

 

I main a celebrand and 100% quick, fury and might is a joke/easy to maintain while i spend most of my time in time 1 and are unless players start forgetting they can evade or I need to give Stab resolve and vigor or top up heals.

 

It would feel better if there was a cool down on my quick/might providing skills and reduced fury time on symbol so that I had to plan my offensive for boons for the right moment.

 

 

[phandaria.4891]

18 minutes ago, NumNums.7935 said:

I think I wasn't clear enough with my opinion. I think the issue is boon duration being to long. I understand groups will go for boons but max might, fury, quick and alac should only be available during small burst window making boon application more strategic and rewarding instead of just always being applied 100% of the time.

 

It will open users up to understanding fights better booning right before break bars to maximize damage at appropriate times 

Fair point, but if the duration is simply limited, people will just add more quick/alac/might/fury role slots in the party, provided they increase the party DPS as a whole.

Even if this idea works out, it will just eliminate concentration/boon duration stat out of the window. The meta will return to full condi/zerk + heals, further reducing diversity.

 

[NumNums.7935]

Just now, phandaria.4891 said:

Fair point, but if the duration is simply limited, people will just add more quick/alac/might/fury role slots in the party, provided they increase the party DPS as a whole.

Even if this idea works out, it will just eliminate concentration/boon duration stat out of the window. The meta will return to full condi/zerk + heals, further reducing diversity.

 

Tbh i don't see that as a bad thing if it makes the gameplay more engaging. What's the point of diversity if its all just boon spamming and sustained dps.

 

I think condi/expertise needs to be discussed aswell because its a big contributer to this spam support/ off cooldown gameplay that is happening.

[phandaria.4891]

2 minutes ago, NumNums.7935 said:

I think intensity is less of an issue to me, its more about duration. Similar to cc boons should have very low duration and supports would have to learn mechanics to understand best time to apply boons.

 

I main a celebrand and 100% quick, fury and might is a joke/easy to maintain while i spend most of my time in time 1 and are unless players start forgetting they can evade or I need to give Stab resolve and vigor or top up heals.

 

It would feel better if there was a cool down on my quick/might providing skills and reduced fury time on symbol so that I had to plan my offensive for boons for the right moment.

The issue with Firebrand, is that mantras are super OP at the moment, and Guardian core kit gives them access to many beneficial boon. It is more on class/skill balance, instead of Boon issue.

If you compare with like Alac Spectre, which needs to use 3-4 Utility skill (Wells) to provide 100% alacrity.

[NumNums.7935]

14 minutes ago, phandaria.4891 said:

The issue with Firebrand, is that mantras are super OP at the moment, and Guardian core kit gives them access to many beneficial boon. It is more on class/skill balance, instead of Boon issue.

If you compare with like Alac Spectre, which needs to use 3-4 Utility skill (Wells) to provide 100% alacrity.

I agree but also disagree to an extent. Fb should be reworked to have to pay in dps for the amount of utility it gets OOTB.

That being said I am not apposed to players having access to boon variety and feel some specs need to be looked at to have a little more boon variety added to their kits.

I just feel that the application of them should be significantly reduced fb should only be able to apply quickness in 3-6 sec intervals every 20-30 secs that would make the player have to think when should I apply this to maximize the benefit.

 

All specs should be like that.

 

Edit: a good idea for fb would be if you enter tome 2 or 3 you get a cleric stance that reduces dps by x% and increases incoming heals by ×%. (That is heals to self only and a trait rework could share that out)

 

Then if you enter tome 1 you get the opposite effect.

Edited April 19, 2022 by NumNums.7935
Fb ideas

[NumNums.7935]

6 minutes ago, NumNums.7935 said:

I agree but also disagree to an extent. Fb should be reworked to have to pay in dps for the amount of utility it gets OOTB.

That being said I am not apposed to players having access to boon variety and feel some specs need to be looked at to have a little more boon variety added to their kits.

I just feel that the application of them should be significantly reduced fb should only be able to apply quickness in 3-6 sec intervals every 20-30 secs that would make the player have to think when should I apply this to maximize the benefit.

 

All specs should be like that.

 

Edit: a good idea for fb would be if you enter tome 2 or 3 you get a cleric stance that reduces dps by x% and increases incoming heals by ×%. (That is heals to self only and a trait rework could share that out)

 

Then if you enter tome 1 you get a zealot stance which has the opposite effect.

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

17 minutes ago, NumNums.7935 said:

I agree but also disagree to an extent. Fb should be reworked to have to pay in dps for the amount of utility it gets OOTB.

That being said I am not apposed to players having access to boon variety and feel some specs need to be looked at to have a little more boon variety added to their kits.

I just feel that the application of them should be significantly reduced fb should only be able to apply quickness in 3-6 sec intervals every 20-30 secs that would make the player have to think when should I apply this to maximize the benefit.

 

All specs should be like that.

 

Edit: a good idea for fb would be if you enter tome 2 or 3 you get a cleric stance that reduces dps by x% and increases incoming heals by ×%. (That is heals to self only and a trait rework could share that out)

 

Then if you enter tome 1 you get the opposite effect.

 

Too role defined for GW2.  A DPS can heal and a healer can DPS, it all comes down to skill.

At least in competitive; raid everything is a rotation and I think that's where a lot of these takes come from.  You can hardline classes to roles in raids, you can't or really shouldn't in competitive.  

So yes, don't need a 15 minute vid to tell you what they told you in blog and on reddit--they want all classes to do all things.  

[NumNums.7935]

2 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Too role defined for GW2.  A DPS can heal and a healer can DPS, it all comes down to skill.

At least in competitive; raid everything is a rotation and I think that's where a lot of these takes come from.  You can hardline classes to roles in raids, you can't or really shouldn't in competitive.  

So yes, don't need a 15 minute vid to tell you what they told you in blog and on reddit--they want all classes to do all things.  

If you read my other comments you'll see i want pve to play more like pvp.  I think pvp is where this game shines and the boon balance there is exactly what pve needs. More time focused and purposeful application. 

 

 

[HowlKamui.5120]

It's par for the course given how the combat system is in the game. It'd be very hard to change it. IMO it's not that bad. 

[Erise.5614]

10 hours ago, phandaria.4891 said:

This is quite unfair. The one who create the "Meta" are the players, not Anet. Obviously the path of least resistance is what the players will gravitate towards and DPS is always and will always be the key component for any game period.

Even if the game is balanced without counting these boons, the players will almost always will choose it over no boons. And as you said, competent players can finish strikes and raids 5 man, meaning offensive boons are not a hard DPS check for 10 man group.

 

 

I think you don't get what Meta is. People want to get the highest possible chance of success, but at the same time minimize the hassle of organization. Quickness/Alac are meta because they give the highest plus that people bothered to spend time looking and organize them. Might/Fury also add significant amount, but they are so abundant that people don't bother searching. 

People also look for Heal/Barrier and Ress (e.g. Heal Scourge) because they give the biggest safety net.

Overall situation is a good thing as different specs can apply Quickness/Alac/Healing. It would be better as the roles spread to wider specs.

 

Defined roles will only take away freedom if it only available to specific spec/class, but at the moment Quickness/Alac are quite well spread among different spec.

You don't bring up inexperienced/newer player skill by dumbing down all content. It is done by differentiation and progression from easy to difficult content. I believe Anet has done well here with the strikes and upcoming challenge mode.

A more positive way to encourage this is matchmaking of veteran and new/inexperienced player, as well as rewarding successful training, not by balancing every content to new player standard. For example, many guilds have run raid training to help new/inexperienced players; how can this be spread further, how can inexperienced player find training group and vice versa.

 

TLDR; Like it or not, there will always be a Meta. The wider the roles are spread the better for Meta.

My point is rather the opposite. Streamlining boons into few primary ones reduces how wide roles are spread. Dudu -> Alac, Warrior -> Quickness has to come with nerfs or removal of some of their class specific features.

ANet is standardizing roles that need to be filled to make the overall combat experience more similar across the board. 

Basically, we are moving from the Dota style meta, where roles are more split into what they bring to the team. Where they play and how they actually pull it off can be different though (e.g. duo jungle is totally viable)

Whereas league of legends was always proud of it's strong meta. Having 5 players fill 5 very specific roles that differ a bit in how they do it but never in what they do. 

That's what I meant. It's great for stability and making it easier for players to learn one specific role and get good at it. There's less need to understand the whole combat system. But it also limits the possible diversity. 

It's streamlining combat. With all the positive aspects. But also all its downsides. 

[Luci.7018]

The good part , is that if  they release a LFG systems , like other major mmos , then there wouldn't be a need for roles .

Tanks/healers wont be needed because the boss one-shots  anyway , while each person when focused by an exploding aoe must run away from the zerg   and Boon duration would be fully available to all classes .

 

Less tank and spank , where few players can carry the group , and more mobility fights /personal responsibility / coping  interesting mechanics from other games

Edited April 19, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Taclism.2406]

I'll say it again : Game would be better without alacrity

- Most sought after boon, but its available to the least classes, making group templates fairly restricting 
- Unlike defensive boons that have a meaningful impact on the incoming fight (eg : stand your grounds when people struggle on HT mordremoth, or reflect projectiles vs Boneskinner), which only ask you to change one or two skills and lets you do your thing ; being "alac dps" implies sacrifice your own input for a passive effect. No one wants to play that role for the role itself, but because it makes it much easier to group since its wanted everywhere and few are willing to do it for long

- Changing cooldowns has to be the worst possibility when it comes to learning/practicing : Now you dont only need to learn your rotation with alac, but also how to adapt anywhere you dont have it

Imo, alacrity only bring elitism for elitism's sake. And while I'm all for the best players to have tools to race for fastests kills and such (even if thats kittened provided the old chrono dps), the fact this buff is seen as a requirement for kitten as basic as the 3IBS easy is a testament its gone way too far.

[draxynnic.3719]

Need to go back to the Manifesto before release. "All professions can fill all roles" was always the intent. It's just taking them a while, in part because the roles have changed from "DPS, support, control" to "DPS, damage mitigation, quickness, alacrity" as it turned out that control wasn't really a role in itself, while not all forms of support were equal. The distinction between professions is less in what you do, and more in how you do it. Don't like how Chronomancer gives out quickness? Maybe Firebrand will be more to your liking. Or Scrapper. Or perhaps Harbinger, Catalyst, or Warrior in the summer.
 

On 4/19/2022 at 2:10 PM, phandaria.4891 said:

Fair point, but if the duration is simply limited, people will just add more quick/alac/might/fury role slots in the party, provided they increase the party DPS as a whole.

Even if this idea works out, it will just eliminate concentration/boon duration stat out of the window. The meta will return to full condi/zerk + heals, further reducing diversity.

 

This. Thiiiiiiis.

I'm pretty sure it was even tried during the chronomancer monopoly days. They nerfed chronomancer down so that one would no longer do the job. People brought more chronomancers and kept going, just adding more squeeze on DPS slots. If you nerf them down so far that people can't make them permanent in group content, you'll make them irrelevant outside of group content.

One could potentially nerf the effect, but that'd just mean rescaling of the bosses, people would still want to have it.

[phandaria.4891]

18 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Imo, alacrity only bring elitism for elitism's sake. And while I'm all for the best players to have tools to race for fastests kills and such (even if thats kittened provided the old chrono dps), the fact this buff is seen as a requirement for kitten as basic as the 3IBS easy is a testament its gone way too far.

IMO, don't join any group that ask for roles in IBS easy 3. I don't think they know what they are doing. I've seen more random group without requirement for IBS easy 3.

 

18 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

I'll say it again : Game would be better without alacrity

- Most sought after boon, but its available to the least classes, making group templates fairly restricting 
- Unlike defensive boons that have a meaningful impact on the incoming fight (eg : stand your grounds when people struggle on HT mordremoth, or reflect projectiles vs Boneskinner), which only ask you to change one or two skills and lets you do your thing ; being "alac dps" implies sacrifice your own input for a passive effect. No one wants to play that role for the role itself, but because it makes it much easier to group since its wanted everywhere and few are willing to do it for long

- Changing cooldowns has to be the worst possibility when it comes to learning/practicing : Now you dont only need to learn your rotation with alac, but also how to adapt anywhere you dont have it

Point 1. Agree, much much better if Arenanet can add these boons to more class/spec. Warrior and Ranger are going to be updated soon.

Point 2. I actually like doing support better than DPS. Even just being Quick/Alac DPS helps me scratch that healers itch. You know, holy trinity exists in other games because healing/support bring enjoyment to some people.  

Point 3. Arguably, it also shows progression of the player's skill, able to adapt to Alac/non-Alac rotation. Skill progression brings enjoyment for the player. But I admit it can result in barrier of entry.

 

 

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

This. Thiiiiiiis.

I'm pretty sure it was even tried during the chronomancer monopoly days. They nerfed chronomancer down so that one would no longer do the job. People brought more chronomancers and kept going, just adding more squeeze on DPS slots. If you nerf them down so far that people can't make them permanent in group content, you'll make them irrelevant outside of group content.

One could potentially nerf the effect, but that'd just mean rescaling of the bosses, people would still want to have it.

Totally agreed, let's not go back to 4 Warrior and 1 Mesmer (Time Warp) CoF Meta. It was the worst time ever.

Edited April 20, 2022 by phandaria.4891