Say goodbye to my last warrior

[Arklite.4013]

11 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Exactly. Evades, blocks, reflects, full invulns/distortion, stealths. Not counting traits, just weapon skills, profession mechanics, and utilities.

Evades. Land only.
Rev: 6. 7 if you include Vindi dodge.
Guard: 2
Engi: 1
Ranger: 10
Necro: 1
Thief: 9, 10 if you include daredevil dodge.
Ele: 12
Mesmer: 4, 5 if you count Mirage dodge.
Warrior: 5

Blocks/Aegis:

Rev: 2
Guard: 13
Engi: 5
Ranger: 3
Necro: 1
Thief: 5
Ele: 2
Mesmer: 8
Warrior: 6

Reflects/projectile block/projectile destruction:
Rev: 3
Guard: 8
Engi: 8
Ranger: 4
Necro: 2
Thief: 5
Ele: 9
Mesmer: 4
Warrior: 5

Distortion (obviously Mesmer only)
7

Shroud based Mechanic:
Necro: 2
Thief: 1

Full Invuln:
Guard: 1
Engi: 1
Ele: 3

I am not counting Psuedo Invulns like EP or Signet of Stone as condi still works on them.

Blind:
Rev: 2
Guard: 6
Engi: 9
Ranger: 8
Necro: 9
Thief: 14
Ele: 12
Mesmer: 7
Warrior: 2

Stealth, not counting blasting smoke fields or traits:
Engi: 2
Thief: 17
Ranger: 1
Mesmer: 5 ("Hide-In-Shadows")

Totals:
Rev: 14 <- Rev is able to stack high amounts of total damage reduction via traits for high/perma durations.
Guard: 30 <- Blue child that is favored by Anet.
Engi: 26 <- Not including Flashbang FYI. Not including the barrier spam either.
Ranger: 24 <- can also perma immob you and stand where you cant hit back.
Necro: 15, but two of those are shrouds which are the single best defense in the game that allow you to do offense at the same time making this misleading. Also can barrier spam and just not take damage.
Thief: 50, one of which is a shroud. See above comment. 
Ele: 38. Can also barrier spam and just not take damage.
Mesmer: 36
Warrior: 18 <- Does not have a mode that completely covers HP while going on full offense. Cannot stack high durations of high damage reduction. Does get some barrier. Had high resustain until Feb2020, that got nerfed. Now BSW is the only spec than has High resustain and barely can reach the adult table.

The three lowest are Rev, Necro and Warrior. As I note above Rev can build very high damage reduction for long periods of time. Shroud lets necro face tank damage while their HP bar is protected as well as getting large barrier access. Both of those are more powerful than warrior's 4 channeled blocks/evade that deny them the ability to attack during the duration.

Not to disparage your work here, but I believe this information would be easier to put in perspective if you only included the amount of damage mitigation tools used on the most common builds for these specs. Ranger has access to 10 evades, but realistically you aren't going to fight a Ranger in ranked running upwards of 5.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Arklite.4013

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, Arklite.4013 said:

Not to disparage your work here, but I believe this information would be easier to put in perspective if you only included the amount damage mitigation tools used on the most common builds for these specs. Ranger has 10 evades but you aren't going to fight a Ranger in ranked running upwards of 5.

I know, and that is a valid consideration, but it does show how many tools Anet provides each of the classes to mitigate damage rather than relying on vitality, toughness, and healing.

In that same vein, Warrior would have at most 4 evades/blocks, but 2 of which are channels that don't damage during the channel, unlike 4 of those 5 ranger evades/blocks. Warrior has great re-sustain in PvE, and mediocre re-sustain in competitive outside of BSW, which is just on par with other classes rather than being OP. Warrior's version of 'evading/blocking while still doing damage' was their hard CCs, but now they do no damage in competitive. This is one of the main reasons in competitive that Warrior is having such a hard time.

@SoulGuardian.6203, kind of taking your thread off course at this point. Sorry about that, but it has turned to a good discussion. Please try some of those builds I posted for you before giving up on your warrior. If you are on NA, then give me a whisper/mail sometime and I'm more than willing to talk you through some pointers.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@SoulGuardian.6203, kind of taking your thread off course at this point. Sorry about that, but it has turned to a good discussion. Please try some of those builds I posted for you before giving up on your warrior. If you are on NA, then give me a whisper/mail sometime and I'm more than willing to talk you through some pointers.

Thanks bud. That's fine.

Post what you wish,. It is getting interesting reading people's comments and experience with warrior.

 

I am giving Spellbreaker another go.

Switched to sword dagger. Might replace dagger with axe.

Changed runes and sigils too.

It seems to be performing a lot better now.

There was something about GS that I'm kinda not getting what it is... that, it's not inflicting high damage.

GS stats are good.

Power, precision, condition damage, expertise. 

So that's not it. Maybe if I use a sigil of force in it?

 

I wanna keep some sort of blade, because blade is my character's first name.

I know. Just petty stuff, but Hey...

 

[JunkJunk.8971]

Use axe then..   bladed and all..   I run axe/axe with bladesworn and doing well in pvp...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Thanks bud. That's fine.

Post what you wish,. It is getting interesting reading people's comments and experience with warrior.

 

I am giving Spellbreaker another go.

Switched to sword dagger. Might replace dagger with axe.

Changed runes and sigils too.

It seems to be performing a lot better now.

There was something about GS that I'm kinda not getting what it is... that, it's not inflicting high damage.

GS stats are good.

Power, precision, condition damage, expertise. 

So that's not it. Maybe if I use a sigil of force in it?

 

I wanna keep some sort of blade, because blade is my character's first name.

I know. Just petty stuff, but Hey...

 

Power, precision, condition damage, expertise.  <- That right there is your problem.

Power, Precision, Ferocity is what you need to be running with GS. Axe/Axe is the main power DPS set on Warrior. GS is the second best power set, but it also brings an evade, and strong AoE F1 that does not depend on Adrenaline level, and 100B in PvE will kill mobs fast if you bring some quickness with it.

Torch, swords, LB are all hybrid weapons where Sinister, Grieving, or Vipers will work best for damage.

Axes, Hammer, Maces, Daggers, Rifle, Pistol, and GS are all power weapons that will work best with Dragon, Berserker, or Marauder gear for damage. If you are running Viper gear, which is what you posted above, then your GS is not going to be doing good damage. That is like running Necro scepter with Berserker gear and complaining that it does too little damage.

You can run Cele, and still have high damage, but that some high level build crafting to maximize.

Try something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAExflJwGZXMMGKOSXuvcA-zRJYiR9fpEWEEYCERB0aI43so/rF-e

Has high HP, ~100% crit fully buffed, +200% crit damage, and each crit on GS will heal you and give endurance. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Lan Deathrider.5910
typo

[The Boz.2038]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:54 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Blocks/Aegis:

Necro: 1

Sorry, what? 
You talking about projectile block here, or..?

(please don't tell me that you're basing this off Feed From Corruption, lol)

Edited May 2, 2022 by The Boz.2038

[Myror.7521]

@The Boz.2038 pretty sure it meant to be harbringer elite skill thst could give ya every Single boon at Max stack xd

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@The Boz.2038 pretty sure it meant to be harbringer elite skill thst could give ya every Single boon at Max stack xd

Ah.
Okay, yeah, that counts, I suppose.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Ah.
Okay, yeah, that counts, I suppose.

Yep, tricky since it isn't listed on the aegis page. Easy to miss.

[IrishPotato.6327]

On 4/30/2022 at 6:30 AM, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Thanks bud. That's fine.

Post what you wish,. It is getting interesting reading people's comments and experience with warrior.

 

I am giving Spellbreaker another go.

Switched to sword dagger. Might replace dagger with axe.

Changed runes and sigils too.

It seems to be performing a lot better now.

There was something about GS that I'm kinda not getting what it is... that, it's not inflicting high damage.

GS stats are good.

Power, precision, condition damage, expertise. 

So that's not it. Maybe if I use a sigil of force in it?

 

I wanna keep some sort of blade, because blade is my character's first name.

I know. Just petty stuff, but Hey...

 

Greatsword is a power based weapon, and running Power, Precision, Condi and Expertise will not do anything for you.

[The Boz.2038]

21 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yep, tricky since it isn't listed on the aegis page. Easy to miss.

I discounted it because 90 seconds of cooldown is really long, and the skill won't be used for the aegistab it provides, considering the importance of everything else it brings.

14 hours ago, IrishPotato.6327 said:

Greatsword is a power based weapon, and running Power, Precision, Condi and Expertise will not do anything for you.

It will make the GS cripple and vuln last extra long! 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I discounted it because 90 seconds of cooldown is really long, and the skill won't be used for the aegistab it provides, considering the importance of everything else it brings.

The tally in no way took into account durations versus cool downs and was merely a summation of active defenses available. If you want to take into account durations versus cooldowns, then Necro Shrouds and Scourge Barrier/shade damage reductions would show up as some of the biggest offenders.

 

[The Boz.2038]

I mean, yeah, sure, as literal padding. The attacks still go through, along with any conditions or crowd control associated with them.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I mean, yeah, sure, as literal padding. The attacks still go through, along with any conditions or crowd control associated with them.

Shroud is still 100% HP defense while it is up. Excluding Harb shroud of course.

[Lighter.5631]

Yes, berserker is bad in open world specially with blood reckoning.

spellbreaker and bladesworn are better.

but still slow in comparison, when play optimally.

slow at clearing content, lack of ability to tag targets and lacks good aoe.

lacks basically anything that make a good, fun open world spec.

[Valisha.8650]

Deleting a character just before it gets a buff to boons it provides. Well played, sugar.

[IrishPotato.6327]

11 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It will make the GS cripple and vuln last extra long! 

GS Condi Warrior new Gorseval spirit meta?

[Hotride.2187]

5 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Deleting a character just before it gets a buff to boons it provides. Well played, sugar.

Is it really a buff though? It goes from unique buffs (clunky design, sure, but still a reason to bring 1 in a group) to being replaced by qfb.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Deleting a character just before it gets a buff to boons it provides. Well played, sugar.

You're too optimistic. 

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Is it really a buff though? It goes from unique buffs (clunky design, sure, but still a reason to bring 1 in a group) to being replaced by qfb.

Fair ... so let's reword:

Deleting a character because you speculate it won't be a buff to boons it provides.

That's probably worse IMO. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Fair ... so let's reword:

Deleting a character because you speculate it won't be a buff to boons it provides.

That's probably worse IMO. 

Strawman quoting another strawman?

OP was considering war deletion because it is difficult to succeed with, which is objectively true. There's things he can do to make his pve experience better though. 

There's no need to speculate about other reasons you'd delete warrior, even though there are quite a few of them. The fact that

OP wanted to delete his warrior right before what would potentially be a class buff (even though right now it's languishing and has been for years), 

or that

[deleting a warrior because you don't feel a potential buff would fix its problems] is worse than [deleting it right before a potential buff]

Have nothing to do with the fact that warrior needs substantial fixes and its current iterations cause player frustration across the board. 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Obtena.7952]

11 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

OP was considering war deletion because it is difficult to succeed with, which is objectively true. 

Except that has MUCH more to do with the player than the class. Incidentally, that's objectively true for every class where the player lacks the skill to play it.  

Of course everyone applauds threads like this because they believe ANY noise about how bad warrior is somehow fixes the problem it has; that's simply absurd. Frankly, I don't care what the OP does but I DO care about people making threads that simply add to the noise that continue to diminish the value of the subforum for providing good feedback. 

I mean, maybe you like threads about warriors getting tutu's and deleting the class because someone doesn't know how to play it ... but they don't help. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except that has MUCH more to do with the player than the class. Incidentally, that's objectively true for every class where the player lacks the skill to play it.  

So what we have in this thread is an example where the player mistakes lack of success with a failure in the class design. The dig is that he just jumps on the bandwagon of 'warrior sucks' instead of asking people where he can improve his play. Frankly, I don't care if he deletes his warrior, but I DO care about people making threads that make sense to maintain SOME value to the feedback being created here. 

The fact that they failed in adequate build craft and the fact that warrior also lacks in comparison to other classes are not mutually exclusive. They can both be true at the same time.

In fact, one just reinforces the other. If they built their warrior like that, then it stands to reason that their build crafting on the other professions followed a similar nature, i.e. that they were also built inefficiently, but because of how those other classes are built, the lack of proper build crafting did not inhibit their gameplay.

So said player uses the same type of build crafting on warrior, a much less forgiving class, and has problems. Yes, part of that is the fact that they built their warrior poorly. Yes, asking for help rather than giving up would have been better, we're a helpful sort over here on the warrior sub forum despite the occasional bickering. But, if warrior were as forgiving as the other specs would they have even come to this point?

No.

If warrior had as many blocks as Guardian? As many blinds as a Thief? As many evasions as a Ranger? as many invulns as a Mesmer? Stealth? Teleports? Shroud? Heck, even decent Protection access that doesn't rely on a gimmick? Pretty sure if Warrior ranked BIS is any of the active defenses then OP would not have had the experience that they did.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The fact that they failed in adequate build craft and the fact that warrior also lacks in comparison to other classes are not mutually exclusive. They can both be true at the same time.

In fact, one just reinforces the other. If they built their warrior like that, then it stands to reason that their build crafting on the other professions followed a similar nature, i.e. that they were also built inefficiently, but because of how those other classes are built, the lack of proper build crafting did not inhibit their gameplay.

So said player uses the same type of build crafting on warrior, a much less forgiving class, and has problems. Yes, part of that is the fact that they built their warrior poorly. Yes, asking for help rather than giving up would have been better, we're a helpful sort over here on the warrior sub forum despite the occasional bickering. But, if warrior were as forgiving as the other specs would they have even come to this point?

No.

If warrior had as many blocks as Guardian? As many blinds as a Thief? As many evasions as a Ranger? as many invulns as a Mesmer? Stealth? Teleports? Shroud? Heck, even decent Protection access that doesn't rely on a gimmick? Pretty sure if Warrior ranked BIS is any of the active defenses then OP would not have had the experience that they did.

True ... but that doesn't excuse the fact that the failure here was not the class and yet, people have no problem using that to illustrate things they think are deficient about the class. So you are right, they aren't mutually exclusive ... but when it comes to complaining about warrior deficiencies, that seems to go right out the window ...because any thread where someone complains gots to be great for warrior AMIRITE?

Again, what you are saying is reinforcing my point ... failure and success with the class is highly player dependent, regardless of it's level of difficulty to do so. Whether warrior is deficient or not is irrelevant here. 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

True ... but that doesn't excuse the fact that the failure here was not the class. Again, what you are saying is reinforcing my point ... failure and success with the class is highly player dependent, regardless of it's level of difficulty to do so.

 

It is skill dependent, but that does not mean that each class has the same skill floor/ceiling. Some of the floors are so low that a half thought out build would still work. See: Necromancer. Seriously, you can play that class one handed while half asleep and still steamroll PvE. I know I did it with a newborn asleep in one arm at 2am most mornings.