[Suggestions ] Just listen to this guy

[Rasimir.6239]

14 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Getting into strikes has a bunch of hurdles. Putting on the right gear and traits, finding a group and interacting with strangers on the internet. Its a Game so some(apparently many) people don't want to "struggle" at all while playing a game in their free time. I get that.

Sorry, but no. You don't get anything. You've already put a ton of (wrong) assumptions into these few sentences alone.

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 minute ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I know it's not the majority, but something changed over the years. Even I haven't dared to try the new strikes yet, due to not having any aquaintances I'd dare run them with right now, and I used to be very much into instanced content some years back. Those of my friends who never did much instanced content to begin with pretty much avoid that kind of content like the plague by now 😞 .

It's not that they don't want to (or can't) cooperate with others. They very much do so all the time, in open world, guild activities, (smallscale) wvw and the like, but the steps to get (back?) into fractals/strikes/raids feel like they've grown over the years. If you're not the kind of person that easily learns (or enjoys to learn) from youtube videos and don't have friends you trust to be ok with giving you the room to make errors while learning, then it isn't nearly as easy a gamemode to get into as it might look from the inside 😞 .

And the content? Was that fun for him?
I can understand that he didnt want to do it again, because it just wasnt fun for him. People have different taste.

But to say, because of one bad encounter with a person to ditch the complete content is somewhat exergated in my eyes. If all people would handle things like this, OW would be a wasteland because toxi people are everywhere. And to badmouth content and the community around this content bcause of one person, makes you not really a better person.

Don't get me wrong, i had encounters where my fingernails rolled up and i wanted to punch trough my monitor and that in all gamemodes. I sometimes want to punch trough my monitor from some froum-posts here, lmao. People can be so irritating and i bet other people did think this also about you and your'e friend and of me and of everyone.

And to sum something up. What people always say in other threads when someone tells a story about "bad people", we don't know the full story. What you consider bad, is for other just a normal tipp. When he insulted your'e friend, he can report him and block him and move on.
But to ditch complete content because of a few dickheads ... dont do this. Don't ruin your'e fun and play into these trolls hands.

[Erise.5614]

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

While I completely emphasize and understand the desire to not engage with the content after, it's also pretty unfair in my opinion. 

 

The majority of players don't behave that way, and I honestly have no idea how such misconceptions can be broken. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Getting into strikes has a bunch of hurdles. Putting on the right gear and traits, finding a group and interacting with strangers on the internet. Its a Game so some(apparently many) people don't want to "struggle" at all while playing a game in their free time. I get that.

 

But there is no solution to that problem. No real solution anyway.

You can ignore group content that has people relying on other people(current solution).

Anet can make all Strikes so easy you don´t have rely on other people at all. Basically removing that type of content.

Make muted groups were you cant kick other players? That would be more or less public strikes and nobody does that for a reason.

 

Difficulty cant be the problem. Capturing a camp in WvW solo is certainly more difficult then hitting the shiverpeak golem. You could probably do shiverpeaks duo with your friend for the lols.

 

If a no requirement group deemed his Dps to low for easy strikes i can only imagined he did show up with WvW traits and full trailblazer or something. Or there was a requirement in squad chat you guys didn't catch. No requirement still means you have to fulfil a role. In that case dps. But that does go without saying(i hope).

Sure they could have been nicer but if one mildly bad interaction with internet strangers is to much of a hurdle... There is no cure for that.

 

 

I wanna point out a curios observation I just made. Not sure what to make of it.

You are mostly expected to interact as little as necessary and share all information in the standardized format in as few words as possible. 

Asking questions will usually gets you a passive aggressive response involving a mention of the wiki or a straight up kick. Depending on what the group expects of you and how difficult the content is (e.g. a kick is obviously less likely in Shiverpeaks than for CM Quadim). Not saying anything but performing poorly is has a decent chance of negative responses. Be it passive aggressive, a kick or others leaving the group without a comment. 

And I fully understand this. You are there to finish the content in a somewhat efficient manner. That's why all the LFG gatekeeping is a thing too.
But that experience is, on average, not particularly good for new players. It's not all that social either for that matter. Unless explicitly labeled training, it is expected you know everything there is to know. To complete it quickly, efficiently and split ways as soon as possible. 

Not sure what the solution for that could be. But I find that observation interesting.

That incentives are set in such a way that a (initially) poor and confusing dynamic is encouraged. Which makes it easy to blame inexperienced players while also making it hard to enter and exaggerating the impact of negative behavior towards them (because very negative experiences are more memorable than just playing. So a single kitten can mess up perception very easily despite 99% of players just minding their own business).

Edited May 9, 2022 by Erise.5614
Grammar

[Shikaru.7618]

8 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

 

I wanna point out a curios observation I just made. Not sure what to make of it.

You are mostly expected to interact as little as necessary and share all information in the standardized format in as few words as possible. 

Asking questions will usually gets you a passive aggressive response involving a mention of the wiki or a straight up kick. Depending on what the group expects of you and how difficult the content is (e.g. a kick is obviously less likely in Shiverpeaks than for CM Quadim). Not saying anything but performing poorly is has a decent chance of negative responses. Be it passive aggressive, a kick or leaving the group without a comment. 

And I fully understand this. You are there to finish the content in a somewhat efficient manner. That's why all the LFG gatekeeping is a thing too.

But that experience is, on average, not particularly good for new players. It's not all that social either for that matter. Unless explicitly labeled training, it is expected you know everything there is to know. 

Not sure what the solution for that could be. But I find that observation interesting.

That incentives are set in such a way that a poor and (initially) confusing dynamic is encouraged. Which makes it easy to blame inexperienced players while also making it hard to enter and exaggerating the impact of negative behavior towards them (because very negative experiences are more memorable than just playing. So a single kitten can mess up perception very easily despite 99% of players just minding their own business).

As a hardcore raider, I can say for me, the main drawback to taking new people is that the knowledge and skill gap I would need to close seems insurmountable in the 2 min I have before ready check happens. Someone fresh from open world likely won't have proper stats, don't know what most of their traits do, don't know what cc is, don't understand how to position/stack, and don't know how to break bars. This is on top of also not knowing the mechanics of the fight. I could handle just explaining mechanics if I had confidence that when I said "there's a fat break bar so bring big cc" they know to bring and use sanctuary/maces,wildblow/rev staff 5/basi venom etc.

 

Other games minimize this problem a lot because they don't let the player mess up their setup this badly without immediate feedback from the game. Some games are designed in such a way where you cannot even mess up certain build setups because they don't even give you the option to pick the wrong stats. Wish gw2 did this so the baseline new player has something I can feasibly work with.

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

30 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

You are mostly expected to interact as little as necessary and share all information in the standardized format in as few words as possible

That is just the normal progression of a collective that conveys the same information repeatedly.
Looking at your post:
CM?
LFG?
Also the Looking for Group textbox is realllllyyyyyy small.

30 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Unless explicitly labeled training, it is expected you know everything there is to know. To complete it quickly, efficiently and split ways as soon as possible.

In my limited experience "Training" raid groups are just no requirement groups in disguise. But for the simpler stuff people should not forget it is an MMO. The game counts on you either to have at least 1 friend or the internet.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Erise.5614]

1 minute ago, Albi.7250 said:

That is just the normal progression of a collective that conveys the same information repeatedly.

 

Looking at your post:

CM?

LFG?

 

Also the LFG textbox is realllllyyyyyy small.

Three very good points!

I really wasn't trying to attack anyone. I do see some of those things in myself. There's times where I spend time deliberately helping someone new. But I clear for myself as well and understand those conventions just fine.

It's just an observation that it feels worse than in other games.

8 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

In my limited experience "Training" raid groups are just no requirement groups in disguise.

Also very true point. Even training communities often have runs where no one is new. They just can't find groups they can be part off outside of it. 

10 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

But for the simpler stuff people should not forget it is an MMO. The game counts on you either to have at least 1 friend or the internet.

This is a fairly moot point.

On one side, it's meaningless semantics mostly meaning that you think others play the game wrong. With exactly the same argument I could make the point that all instanced content is out of place. It's "massively multiplayer online" after all. Nothing massive about 10 players. Which is a terrible argument. The game should adapt to how players actually play and, as it aims to be a mainstream title, it should also adhere to common genre conventions. Which very much includes instanced content that tests your understanding of and ability to execute the combat system. 

Just like it should be possible to play without friends. And I don't even mean this as pure solo experience. A lot of people I know enjoy MMOs because they can drop in, start doing stuff, see when their friends drop in, complete something together and hop off again. Not having to schedule around friends to play at all. To still be able to play while grouping up as convenient for everyone. 

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I know it's not the majority, but something changed over the years. Even I haven't dared to try the new strikes yet, due to not having any aquaintances I'd dare run them with right now, and I used to be very much into instanced content some years back.

Do you mean your perception, or did some event occur that made it more difficult to get into?

1 hour ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Those of my friends who never did much instanced content to begin with pretty much avoid that kind of content like the plague by now 😞 .

Do they have had a bad experience, or something else.

1 hour ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

It's not that they don't want to (or can't) cooperate with others. They very much do so all the time, in open world, guild activities, (smallscale) wvw and the like, but the steps to get (back?) into fractals/strikes/raids feel like they've grown over the years. If you're not the kind of person that easily learns (or enjoys to learn) from youtube videos and don't have friends you trust to be ok with giving you the room to make errors while learning, then it isn't nearly as easy a gamemode to get into as it might look from the inside 😞 .

That i agree with, but then enjoying learning is something i personally consider fundamental to enjoying any form of harder content. I also dont think you have to enjoy instanced content, i was moreso lamenting how it was sad that a few bad apples give such a disproprionate amount of bad rep. 🙂

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

The game should adapt to how players actually play and, as it aims to be a mainstream title, it should also adhere to common genre conventions. Which very much includes instanced content that tests your understanding of and ability to execute the combat system. 

I does that. Just bad. All Strikes are story content you have to play to even join Strikes. It could need some WoW like dungeon journal, but Anet seemly hates to put money on polishing content(wiki works for free after all).WoW dungeon journal is an in game feature that list the abilities and basic mechanics of the encounter. The other problem is inherent. With all content being relevant noobs are grouped up with veterans. I never did a fractal slow because everyone in LFG is speed running.

When i say the game expects you to get information by yourself i mean simple stuff. Things that can be asked and answered in map chat if need be.

"i want to do damage" "Berserker!" "Viper!"

"where are Strikes?" "Eyes of the north"

 

Like someone did already say raids are so convoluted you can´t explain a pug all relevant mechanics in a reasonable timeframe. Shortest guide on youtube i know of is mukluk with 4 mins. That is still 16 minutes of dense Information for one wing. And you have to tab out of the game for that.

Raids would be so more popular if anet hat put the effort into an toned down "lfg mode" were mechanics don´t one shot you. Right now learning raids is like going to dance class to learn the waltz. Just the teacher is throwing rocks at you. And when steve in row 2 doesn´t duck fast enough, the teacher breaks your kneecaps while telling you, you have to start over. Fuccking steve.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Albi.7250

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

I wanna point out a curios observation I just made. Not sure what to make of it.

You are mostly expected to interact as little as necessary and share all information in the standardized format in as few words as possible. 

That is a consequence of experience, slightly annoying, but i dont think its possible to change. 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

Asking questions will usually gets you a passive aggressive response involving a mention of the wiki or a straight up kick. Depending on what the group expects of you and how difficult the content is (e.g. a kick is obviously less likely in Shiverpeaks than for CM Quadim). Not saying anything but performing poorly is has a decent chance of negative responses. Be it passive aggressive, a kick or others leaving the group without a comment. 

I would contest with this, i dont think you will get negative responses for the most part unless you specificly enter high req groups without knowing what the reqs are. 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

And I fully understand this. You are there to finish the content in a somewhat efficient manner. That's why all the LFG gatekeeping is a thing too.

 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

But that experience is, on average, not particularly good for new players. It's not all that social either for that matter. Unless explicitly labeled training, it is expected you know everything there is to know. To complete it quickly, efficiently and split ways as soon as possible. 

I would agree, if this was the norm. But i dont think it is really. Now i will agree that the lfg is really strange if you are not familiar with the language.

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

Not sure what the solution for that could be. But I find that observation interesting.

This is a bieautifull example of a case where nobody is really wrong and conflict still arises.

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

That incentives are set in such a way that a (initially) poor and confusing dynamic is encouraged. Which makes it easy to blame inexperienced players while also making it hard to enter and exaggerating the impact of negative behavior towards them (because very negative experiences are more memorable than just playing. So a single kitten can mess up perception very easily despite 99% of players just minding their own business).

I am curious why the perception does not rear its head as much in open world content. Because trolling happens there to. Maybe its because its not directed to the person directly?

[Erise.5614]

1 minute ago, Albi.7250 said:

When i say the game expects you to get information by yourself i mean simple stuff. Things that can be asked and answered in map chat if need be.

"i want to do damage" "Berserker!" "Viper!"

"where are Strikes?" "Eyes of the north"

These are actually excellent examples. Because neither are intuitive questions to ask.

Only if you know exactly what knowledge you are missing can you ask those.

8 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Like someone did already say raids are so convoluted you cant explain a pug all relevant mechanics in a reasonable timeframe. Shortest guide on youtube i know of is mukluk with 4 mins. That is still 16 minutes of dense Information for one wing. And you have to tab out of the game for that.

 

Raids would be so more popular if anet hat put the effort into an toned down "lfg mode" were mechanics don´t one shot you. Right now learning raids is like going to dance class to learn the waltz. Just the teacher is throwing rocks at you. And when steve in row 2 got hit, the teacher breaks your kneecaps while telling you, you have to start over. Fuccking steve.

And even without calling out steve, he's probably not gonna be happy about messing up for everyone either.

Fully agree with everything here.

[SlayerXX.7138]

9 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I would agree, if this was the norm. But i dont think it is really. Now i will agree that the lfg is really strange if you are not familiar with the language.

Its is. In Eu at least. 2 times i got kicked out of my OWN All welcome Whisper of jormag group for explaining mechanics and "slowing the group down". Once by popular demand and the other time by the tyranny of the commander tag. Which is funny because 4 mins explaining mechanics is still faster then wiping after 6 minutes and trying again. I am pretty sure both groups failed hard after kicking me.

There is a reason people don´t speak up even if i make it clear multiple times i am willing to explain.

 

To reiterate a previous point. All Strikes till WoJ is doable by random in exotics. They  just need to know mechanics and get a try or 2. Only Boneskinner is "hard" in IBS and that is 50% the fault of the players for breaking the encounter and sticking to it and 50% the fault of anet for letting them.

[Erise.5614]

42 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I would contest with this, i dont think you will get negative responses for the most part unless you specificly enter high req groups without knowing what the reqs are. 

As far as I can tell it happens in any group with requirements. Even if it doesn't ask for any KP. Like, even if the requirement is just "alac/quick".

The only "safe" ones I've experience (aka, quite consistently friendly towards inexperience) were the ones that add "chill", "anyone welcome", "training" or similar to the LFG description. 

42 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

This is a bieautifull example of a case where nobody is really wrong and conflict still arises.

Yep! And it's also why I consider it a challenge ANet needs to solve. No community effort or discussion can really change much about it exactly because no one is at fault. But it's still not good.

ANet can change incentives and streamline experiences for everyone. In theory at least. It's not easy at all and everything has associated risks. But they at least have the possibility to approach it. 

42 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I would agree, if this was the norm. But i dont think it is really. Now i will agree that the lfg is really strange if you are not familiar with the language.

It is the norm for inexperienced players. You just don't see them often if you self select into certain kinds of groups. The one you or I naturally gravitate towards. Like, not every time. But if 10% of players are behaving like kitten, they can cover 100% of the runs (if split up evenly). That's why it's called toxicity. It needs incredibly few to spread incredibly far. To affect a lot of people. 

42 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I am curious why the perception does not rear its head as much in open world content. Because trolling happens there to. Maybe its because its not directed to the person directly?

Honestly. I believe because it can be experienced much more passively. So yes, not tied to a person. You can observe for quite a while and learn over time. Without annoying anyone, without feeling out of place, without pressure.

People still get annoyed when a meta fails. But (excluding DE) I've experienced that as less severe than failing a T4 a couple of times or getting stuck in other high level content. 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

I am curious why the perception does not rear its head as much in open world content. Because trolling happens there to. Maybe its because its not directed to the person directly?

A fixed group of 5-10 players in an instance is quite different than ad-hoc grouping in open-world events where one player usually has not that big of an impact.

And Anet did change some events in the past where a few players did troll/grief events, after this trolling/griefing was disussed in the forum.

And maybe it is because aggressive and toxic behaviour happens more often when events fail and open world content events (with the exception of the DE meta) rarely fail.

 

[Zok.4956]

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

But that experience is, on average, not particularly good for new players. It's not all that social either for that matter. Unless explicitly labeled training, it is expected you know everything there is to know. To complete it quickly, efficiently and split ways as soon as possible. 

Not sure what the solution for that could be. But I find that observation interesting.

A solution (not "the" solution) for some players could be to play such content not with PUGs but only with guild mates where, if you found a good guild with nice people, inexperienced players are more tolerated and accepted because they are your guild friends and you do other stuff together and help each other.

But joining a guild is not an universal solution because this itself can lead to some form of "social drama" and bad experience that some players try to avoid. 

Another solution could be that the game systems become better at handling the training and explanation and guidance of inexperienced players and that the game does not outsource this guidance/gatekeeping to other players.

 

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

Its is. In Eu at least. 2 times i got kicked out of my OWN All welcome Whisper of jormag group for explaining mechanics and "slowing the group down". Once by popular demand and the other time by the tyranny of the commander tag. Which is funny because 4 mins explaining mechanics is still faster then wiping after 6 minutes and trying again. I am pretty sure both groups failed hard after kicking me.

There is a reason people don´t speak up even if i make it clear multiple times i am willing to explain.

I will try to join some more groups next week and see if this happens to me to, how many groups have you played in total? 

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

To reiterate a previous point. All Strikes till WoJ is doable by random in exotics. They  just need to know mechanics and get a try or 2. Only Boneskinner is "hard" in IBS and that is 50% the fault of the players for breaking the encounter and sticking to it and 50% the fault of anet for letting them.

 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

As far as I can tell it happens in any group with requirements. Even if it doesn't ask for any KP. Like, even if the requirement is just "alac/quick".

The only "safe" ones I've experience (aka, quite consistently friendly towards inexperience) were the ones that add "chill", "anyone welcome", "training" or similar to the LFG description. 

I'll test this out then. I do think a person when met with reqs they don't understand probably should ask people around but not join the group to ask. 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

Yep! And it's also why I consider it a challenge ANet needs to solve. No community effort or discussion can really change much about it exactly because no one is at fault. But it's still not good.

True, there are community discussions who I do think cause harm though. 

A) people posting about how instanced content is filled with toxic elitists who expect perfect execution every time. 

B) people calling everyone who has gripes lazy. 

Among others. 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

ANet can change incentives and streamline experiences for everyone. In theory at least. It's not easy at all and everything has associated risks. But they at least have the possibility to approach it. 

Yes, the question is how much and how and if they should. 

(apparently some people are in favor of complete segregation on this issue) 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

It is the norm for inexperienced players. You just don't see them often if you self select into certain kinds of groups.

The one you or I naturally gravitate towards.

If joined both no reqs groups and 250li ones. I can just say that I've not seen it happen. Even if I died really soon I still wasn't cussed out. (maybe I should play really bad on purpose a few times?) 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

Like, not every time. But if 10% of players are behaving like kitten, they can cover 100% of the runs (if split up evenly). That's why it's called toxicity. It needs incredibly few to spread incredibly far. To affect a lot of people.

Sure, but then it does not represent the community as a whole, and this is one of the main ways prejudice starts. It is important to keep people informed on that. 🙂

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

 

Honestly. I believe because it can be experienced much more passively. So yes, not tied to a person. You can observe for quite a while and learn over time. Without annoying anyone, without feeling out of place, without pressure.

People still get annoyed when a meta fails. But (excluding DE) I've experienced that as less severe than failing a T4 a couple of times or getting stuck in other high level content. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

A fixed group of 5-10 players in an instance is quite different than ad-hoc grouping in open-world events where one player usually has not that big of an impact.

And Anet did change some events in the past where a few players did troll/grief events, after this trolling/griefing was disussed in the forum.

And maybe it is because aggressive and toxic behaviour happens more often when events fail and open world content events (with the exception of the DE meta) rarely fail.

 

Possibly, these are all good reasons. 

[Raizel.8175]

5 hours ago, Rauderi.8706 said:

Right? I've no room for a fair-weather "friend" like that. Especially one that's not even a good person. 

Is he a bad person then, an evil person even? Why so? Are you not able to reason and discuss his arguments? Or are you just able to use ad hominems?

It always baffles me how people get away with directly insulting people whereas I always get warnings for asking people if they think that their imaginary average player is mentally challenged - adult people should have a certain amount of self-sufficiency and personal responsibility and the soft skills to get by is this game without the games holding their hands.

5 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Point is it only takes one bad apple (or one stupid experience) to sour somebody on that type of content for good. He's a grown man in his 50s and doesn't appreciate being treated like some middle-schooler that doesn't measure up to the expectations of those that think they're the cool kids.

If he's that old, he should be mature enough to know that you won't get through life without conflict. There are always bad apples. Being miffed that severely after a single bad experience is kinda childish to be honest - especially since there are a lot of friendly squads out there who will explain mechanics and won't mind having one or two weaker players on board.

7 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I suspect that one of the biggest disconnects that I see between the players in this game comes from a basic age difference. Younger gamers (and "young" for me easily includes people in their 20s and 30s) seem to be more focussed on efficiency and rewards, while I see a lot of "older" players looking for enjoyable activities with a lot less focus on "gold per hour".

I agree that younger players think more economically since society raised them that way through stuff like precarious employment etc. Rewards are a major driving force for fun nonetheless. Gold is very powerful in GW2 since you can almost buy everthing with it. There aren't that many exclusive rewards and even legendaries can be bought with gold too. That's why - contrary to most other MMORPGs - gold per hour has such a high importance in GW2.

7 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Video gaming, especially in a game like this that tries to focus on cooperative over competitive gameplay, attracts plenty of people that want to have a great time. I may have different goals and different ideas of what is fun to me and what I want to do to get to said fun than a person half my age, but that doesn't make my way of playing less valid.

That's the problem with GW2 - open world content simply isn't cooperative. The game only starts getting cooperative in instanced PvE or sPvP or WvW. The cooperative aspect of open world PvE has almost been entirely killed off through shared participation meaning proper cooperation in open world content doesn't matter to begin with - apart from a select few events. That's also why people don't learn to properly interact with other players in GW2 which is a problem in itself.

[Rauderi.8706]

2 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

 i got kicked out of my OWN ... group for explaining mechanics

This is why I don't bother with trying to engage with the gatekeeper community. 

I can't even make my own group without the risk of someone hijacking or trolling it. 

[battledrone.8315]

22 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well your fighting a dragon an chiping away at its toe nail do you expect the bar to move much?

i expect to have fun in my game, and this is the exact opposite of fun.

and it is also painfully unrealistic, since the dragon could easily stomp you, or just fly away

blizzard knows how to make a good dragon fight. much smaller dragons, and put them in a cave.

 

[Zok.4956]

8 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

That's the problem with GW2 - open world content simply isn't cooperative. The game only starts getting cooperative in instanced PvE or sPvP or WvW.

That is plain wrong. Openworld in GW2 is designed from its core to be cooperative. And the GW2 devs were even proud about, that you do not have to form fixed groups to play cooperative content in open world and you can just play ad-hoc with other players.

 

9 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

The game only starts getting cooperative in instanced PvE or sPvP or WvW.

sPVP and WVW are not cooperative but competitive game modes.

 

9 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

The cooperative aspect of open world PvE has almost been entirely killed off through shared participation meaning proper cooperation in open world content doesn't matter to begin with

The shared participation ("no kill stealing") is an important aspect of the cooperative play in openworld. Even, if it does not matter to you.

 

[Raizel.8175]

33 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

sPVP and WVW are not cooperative but competitive game modes.

Big Oof. Semantics, really? You aren't cooperating with your team mates in sPvP and WvW?

33 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

The shared participation ("no kill stealing") is an important aspect of the cooperative play in openworld. Even, if it does not matter to you.

Shared participation als has negative aspects: it kills the need for proper socialization in GW2, which brings us to the following:

34 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

That is plain wrong. Openworld in GW2 is designed from its core to be cooperative. And the GW2 devs were even proud about, that you do not have to form fixed groups to play cooperative content in open world and you can just play ad-hoc with other players.

The degree of cooperation in GW2s open world content is very, very low - apart from some events like Triple Trouble or DE. 99% of GW2 consists of - even if it may sound weird - people playing "alone together" with other people because the content is - design-wise - too easy to force more involved cooperative gameplay. That's also why there's next to zero community building in open world content. If you really want cooperative gameplay in GW2, you probably want to look at organized zerging in WvW.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

People "Playing alone together" is a thing in every MMO nowadays, its anything but something that only GW2 has.

[kharmin.7683]

5 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

 

Shared participation als has negative aspects: it kills the need for proper socialization in GW2

 

Who determines what is "proper socialization" in GW2 and the necessity for it?  You? 

[Turial.1293]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:20 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Teapot thinks he's funny.

Mukluk actually is.

And this is from a Brit.

 

There's just something about Teapot's "personality" that rubs me up the wrong way.

 

I've watched enough of him to know he has some good points, but at the same time, he's very focused on the sweaty-palmed side of the game, and any suggestions he makes are going to benefit those types of players first and foremost.

Pretty much this. Teapot screams like a youtuber aimed at kids most of the time which is very grating. Not only that but he openly talks about exploiting the game and yet Anet does not use this information in any way. He is proud of how much he can exploit the game and screw the economy of it, not his problem.
Mukluk o nthe other hand always does videos to help players. His videos are centred around makign the game better, not how much players can break it. Plus he is way more chill too, nice to listen to.

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:43 PM, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

No way in hell does a marketing guy say "Lets shove bunny thumper in the Cantha expansion" but ignore actual marketable Especs from GW1

Edit: Also if a marketing person decided Warrior needed a gunblade ripoff and though it would be well recieved, they should be fired.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-the-future-of-guild-wars-2/

"Josh “Grouch” Davis is taking on the role of Game Director. He’s responsible for the “what” and “why” of Guild Wars 2 development. He started as a Guild Wars community content creator and joined the dev team in 2013<as global brand manager>, allowing us to continue a long tradition of recruiting team members from our passionate player community."

So my suspicion was right a marketing person is calling the shots.

Edit: I don't know this josh but that does read like a teapot kinda guy got in the driver seat @ Anet.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Zok.4956]

6 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

The degree of cooperation in GW2s open world content is very, very low - apart from some events like Triple Trouble or DE. (...) the content is - design-wise - too easy to force more involved cooperative gameplay. That's also why there's next to zero community building in open world content.

I get it, you don't like it, because there is no challenge for you because it does not force you (and other players) into "community building". And from a streamers point of view "community building" (growing their own community) is a big and important thing.

But it does not mean that non-streamer-open-world-players want to build their own community or that they want to be forced into someones community or that it even is good/needed for the game.

Ad-hoc cooperation in openworld content without the need to create pre-made/permanent communities/parties is not a bug, but a feature:

"With traditional MMOs you can choose to solo or you can find a good guild or party to play with. With GW2 there's a third option too: you can just naturally play with all the people around you. I personally spend a big chunk of my time in traditional MMOs soloing, but when I play GW2 I always find myself naturally working with everyone around me to accomplish world objectives, and before long we find ourselves saying, "Hey, there's a bunch of us here; let's see if we can take down the swamp boss together," without ever having bothered to form a party." - Mike O'Brien