I don't quite understand Untamed

[Arklite.4013]

So, I'm supposed to keep myself unleashed to do the most damage. But if I want to use my ambush skill, I have to swap the unleash to my pet and then back to myself? Should I just keep myself unleashed 90% of the time and just use it on my pet and mash F1-3 real quick? I hate to repeat what is already being said but this mechanic with this spec does not feel intuitive.

[InsaneQR.7412]

1. I agree. Its clunky and tedious to use. They need to improve upon it.

2. This is how i play it: Buff myself up, teleport it (pet is unleashed), teleport pet in with unleashed skills, CC a ton and unleash myself & Ambush. Then use 1-2 damage skills & AA, unleash back to pet and CC a ton then unleash myself again and repeat from their. In between some buffs and stunbreaks if applicable.

Edited May 13, 2022 by InsaneQR.7412

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

So, I'm supposed to keep myself unleashed to do the most damage. But if I want to use my ambush skill, I have to swap the unleash to my pet and then back to myself? Should I just keep myself unleashed 90% of the time and just use it on my pet and mash F1-3 real quick? I hate to repeat what is already being said but this mechanic with this spec does not feel intuitive.

For PvE yes this is how you play it. Honestly the Untamed is confusing but if you main Ranger it is nice since you have access to things like super speed utilities or Perilous Gift a 3 second immunity to damage.

Its kind of just another flavor of core, if you played Soulbeast for the burst you will hate Untamed since it completely the opposite.

[Beddo.1907]

This is what happens when you dump way too many mechanics onto a state button.

-Hammer skill sets
-Pet normal/unleashed skills
-Ambush skills
-Player DMG/DR buffs
-"On Unleash" traits

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I wouldn't worry too much about the damage modifier, if you want that you are playing the wrong spec.  

What's more important is what you want to do during the state you are in.  If you need pet skill access, then unleash ranger; if you need a quick ambush then unleash pet then unleash ranger.  If you need instant blind, boon rip, projectile bubble, etc. then just stay with pet unleashed.  

That's basically it outside of taking more cantrips for extra CC or the boons they give.  Mostly the defensive ones like resistance help out quite a bit with not being immobed, etc.  

[mikexg.7329]

I tend to stay with pet unleashed state and then unleash ranger, use ambush, and treat it like a burst rotation, then back to unleashed pet as default state.  I am playing more of a condi build though so unleashing ranger doesn’t yield me much dmg increase just access to the ambush skill.

[pninak.1069]

I personally never unsleash ranger although it would make sense to use it when the breakbar is broken. I play a more tanky version with focus on cc to upkeep the dome against projectiles and healing spring. as an asura player you can use stuff like technobabble to cheese freverent force. and due to pet skill 1 tping to the enemy it feels like a SaO-chain. my other build is dmg focussed with the on-attack buffs. I wanted to use quickdraw for it, but quickdraw is used on the ambush skill iirc so you'd be wasting it with autoattack on. I doubt you can have the ambush skill long enough to finish casting whirling defense. I have played against bunnythumpers in gw1, but untamed doesn't really come close. I am even surprised the game doesn't have necrobombers yet. propably got yolosmith for that.

[trunks.5249]

20 minutes ago, pninak.1069 said:

I personally never unsleash ranger although it would make sense to use it when the breakbar is broken. I play a more tanky version with focus on cc to upkeep the dome against projectiles and healing spring. as an asura player you can use stuff like technobabble to cheese freverent force. and due to pet skill 1 tping to the enemy it feels like a SaO-chain. my other build is dmg focussed with the on-attack buffs. I wanted to use quickdraw for it, but quickdraw is used on the ambush skill iirc so you'd be wasting it with autoattack on. I doubt you can have the ambush skill long enough to finish casting whirling defense. I have played against bunnythumpers in gw1, but untamed doesn't really come close. I am even surprised the game doesn't have necrobombers yet. propably got yolosmith for that.

mind if you share your build?

[pninak.1069]

26 minutes ago, trunks.5249 said:

mind if you share your build?

here:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?POkAINlVwUZU0BmLW2XexrB0A-zxQYBFD5tVqGUwY0sqikqKGA-e

 

rune of air for targets that are out of range, short cd for traps. the dodge trait is for quickness only.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by pninak.1069

[pninak.1069]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POkAINlVwUZU0BGJW2TeRrB0A-zxIYdlqH6rMSqqiIV9dA-e

 

that would be a healing variant. due to lowering cd you can use more revives from the spirit aswell as recast it way earlier. what's weird is that beastmastery doesn't reduce the cd of untamed pet skills.  and with nature magic your pet gets passive healing all the time making the other trait obsulete. regarding the upkeep of the dome you'd need a very static target and in zerg situations I usually have alac on me so that might have changed the outcome a bit.

[Popel.1468]

Am I missing something, or untamed have more skills than ele? 

[pninak.1069]

2 hours ago, Zerthi.5493 said:

Am I missing something, or untamed have more skills than ele? 

no it has not:

 

ele has 4*5(weapon skills)+4(jadesphere/overload)-6(dual for weaver)= 24-26

untamed has 2*5(assuming not using hammer)+9(pet skills)+2(ambush)=21 with hammer 26 so same.

[Ashantara.8731]

Don't bother with the technical details. The DPS is so bad it's a spec that's not even worth to have its rotation learnt.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Popel.1468]

So if untamed have same amount of skills, people complain about it because it require quicker fingers to properly use? 

No offence to any rangers, but >majority< of rangers play like majority of minion masters.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Zerthi.5493

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

11 hours ago, Zerthi.5493 said:

So if untamed have same amount of skills, people complain about it because it require quicker fingers to properly use? 

No offence to any rangers, but >majority< of rangers play like majority of minion masters.

It's not even the number of skills that's the problem. It's that core ranger is stuck in 2012 whereas the other professions aged at least a little more gracefully. Untamed is core+, but when core is pretty bad from an identity and role filling standpoint like a modern MMO likely needs (and GW2 does for a lot of modern content, healers, boon supports, DPS, and the occasional tank), it suffers a lot.

 

I don't get where this 'number of skills helps the class" thing comes from. Sometimes it very much so does help the class, sometimes it doesn't. With untamed, I'd argue it doesn't, since it's primary intended playstyle (a hard CCing brawler in PvP) doesn't work well due to how CC skills are handled in PvP, but that's more of a complaint with the 'leashed' hammer than with the number of skills.

[pninak.1069]

I think untamed is the most petcentric spec we have. it also combines two pretty good gw1 builds in it together the bunnythumper and the packhunter. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Beast_master

I think the problem is in that if you play the first you can't play the second making it very hard to create a hybrid between the two thus making the ambush and unsleash skills useless. I can imagine that for gw2 packhunter you gonna permanently stay in unleashed ranger state. we also got the additional ambush skills only, because ppl complained about being stuck to hammer. I don't really mind as hammer is a weapon hardly used and was one of the strongest knockdown weapon in the predecessor with a 4 second knockdown(backbreaker).  lots of raid bosses also are immobile allowing untamed to consistently do cc dmg and keeping up different skills. heard for pvp it is also pretty strong. I think the spec is underrestimated and ppl are overwhelmed by the number of additional buttons to press.

 

I assume the "number of skills"- argument comes from the fact that more skills means more options. It is a way of thinking I can get behind as it is the same thing in gw1. and the same thing slowly seems to apply to gw2 build variety. and due to number of skills some e-specs are more appealing than others. like holo having photonforge for different situations, fb got the tomes. but usually the builds with less skills balance it out with having different single skills available to them while others give up on them or are stuck to certain versions(zerker's different primal bursts vs bladesworn's fixed dragonslashes+gunsaber).

 

Each e-spec with highest amount of direct skills available are: Firebrand(tomes), Bladesworn(dragonslashes), Holosmith(toolbelt+photonforge), weaver(dual),mirage(ambush+shatter),necromancer(doesn't matter, but reaper if you go by weapon skills), vindicator(alliance stance) and deadeye(second set of rifle skills/ specter if you go by extra skills like shroud not linked to a weapon).

[Avatar.3568]

Best Ranger spec for PvP right now, can't comment for pve

The Teleport in Combination With CC and now perfectly timeable pet skills alles Very strong bursts that come "Out of nowhere"

 

 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Best Ranger spec for PvP right now, can't comment for pve

The Teleport in Combination With CC and now perfectly timeable pet skills alles Very strong bursts that come "Out of nowhere"

 

 

Not anymore. Drake tail swipe kinda carried it, soulbeast is back on top for ranger as far as I'm aware. We don't have much pet burst anymore.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Not anymore. Drake tail swipe kinda carried it, soulbeast is back on top for ranger as far as I'm aware. We don't have much pet burst anymore.

 

Which is sad...as CMC and whoever else designed untamed for PvP and seemingly around Tail Swipe, nerfed it what 2-3 months after release, and now...nothing.  

Let that sink in...they designed an entire e-spec around one pet skill.  If you don't believe me, look at the EoD pets and how they still don't function properly after nearly four friggin' months. 

Much like Bladesworn, Untamed was designed around a literal meme.  Well two, if you count 'bunny thumper' in addition to 'tail swipe lulz', but it doesn't even do bunny thumper properly.  

As for number of skills, it should translate to power; that is more skills = higher skill ceiling = more powerful.  It doesn't though, it literally is more skills for less power. 

[Avatar.3568]

7 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Not anymore. Drake tail swipe kinda carried it, soulbeast is back on top for ranger as far as I'm aware. We don't have much pet burst anymore.

I disagree, untamed is Still the better roamer (as a Guy that Likes more to Play slb, ESP sic em slb), Take raven or Wolf instead of Drake, even tho the Drake DMG ist still high, you also krit With 9k mauls while still Teleport ccing them. 

The teleports in Combination With the advanced (and in my opinion on every Ranger spec needed) pet controll Makes it rly strong. 

You are cc's? Don't worry Press the CC Button and your pet helps you Out.

You See that your enemy is Starring an fast and you want to Maul him, use the CC, get the marksman modifiers and krit him to death.

[Popel.1468]

I didn't mean that more skills is better or worst. I just always thought that is ele/engi gimmick - pressing more buttons to have same impact like other classes with less press.

Untamed is much different then Sick'em [core/druid/SB] as it require more gimmicks to have similar effect.

By that I believe is a reason of some sort of confusion, which may lead ppl to think that untamed may be underrated, meanwhile is not. As a bonus they have absolutely amazing trait: Fervent Force - which is not only for weapons, but also Heal, Utility and Ult (right? :D)

All of that increase APM meanwhile I have seen many cores which just press buttons with queue'ing(?) rotation (which look bizzare)

Edited May 28, 2022 by Zerthi.5493

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 hours ago, Zerthi.5493 said:

I didn't mean that more skills is better or worst. I just always thought that is ele/engi gimmick - pressing more buttons to have same impact like other classes with less press.

Untamed is much different then Sick'em [core/druid/SB] as it require more gimmicks to have similar effect.

By that I believe is a reason of some sort of confusion, which may lead ppl to think that untamed may be underrated, meanwhile is not. As a bonus they have absolutely amazing trait: Fervent Force - which is not only for weapons, but also Heal, Utility and Ult (right? :D)

All of that increase APM meanwhile I have seen many cores which just press buttons with queue'ing(?) rotation (which look bizzare)

While I don't have any experience with engineer (because when I tried it, I HATED it), Ele doesn't typically use more skills with the same impact. For damaging specs, it often barely dips into more than 2 elements, which effectively gives it 2.25 weapon sets. When it does dip into the others (i.e. power weaver goes from fire/air to water/fire for exactly 1 skill and then immediately leaves water into air/air, thanks fresh air for the free attunement swap). Support variants do, but often only use 1 or 2 skills (i.e. tempest barely dips into earth or air, but it uses them for some boons and switches ASAP to water or fire deoending on whats needed). Same buttons, same impact, at least in PvE.

 

Untamed, in nearly all aspects, is undertuned or broken. In untamed's defense, this does partially come from core (i.e. some pets not functioning properly with specific boons), but still. A few of the big issues are non-hammer weapons not having a flip, unleash skills being either too weak or too long of skills to be typically useful, and CC skills in PvP are too weak to justify trying to use untamed even with Fervent Force.

[Popel.1468]

Ah yea, that true - about lack of flips.

I was nearly disappointed seeing that there is only hammer completed, meanwhile rest of weapons are rendering thoughts like this:

Junior dev: what about rest of weapon
Senior dev: fuh them 

But I might be wrong on that.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Zerthi.5493