I DO NOT want this to happen to GW2 PvP

[greedywholesome.9081]

Arena of Kings - Steam Charts

 

Played this free pvp game on Steam for a week then it just fizzled overnight despite getting coverage by "influencers"

Come one devs, get your game up. Ask your game designers to work on PvP during their lunch breaks. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Somehow i've heard of this game. I saw Forsaaaaan playing it.

 

Wouldn't worry too much. Gw2 is going to Steam with the benefit of having existed for a long time prior. If it lost 80% of its players in the first month that would be very surprising.

More people just know what Gw2 is, despite the advertising being a bit lack. Judging by the steam reviews this game seems to be best known for being "scuffed league of leggings" which is wrong to say. I mean, its a little funny, but its immoral.

 

[greedywholesome.9081]

Upon release the reviews for GW2 was very high. I'm certain there were internal conflicts within management but yeah, hoping the high ratings and current management will carry the game on Steam despite it being the scuffed league of leggings. 

[Luthan.5236]

Only thing that could revive PvP would be fundamental changes to the game mode. Meaning more game modes ... (different than conquest and death match) - and other maps/team sizes. (Which will not happen cause people fear it might split the low playerbase ... at the beginning.)

For GW2 the PvE is keeping the game alive and some people might try out PvP - but it never will be a game purely played by people that just want to play PvP and buy it for PvP only. Only strategy can be to get player from PvE into PvP. (Not new players to GW2 that only want PvP.)

An issue - that is created by the setting/lore: All races are frienly to each other. So we can't have stuff like in WoW and where you actually get pulled into it by some good lore/story telling having the feeling that you want to fight for your faction/realm. This doesn't even exist anymore in WvW where we only had "worlds" and they moved to linking and now in the future to alliances.

So yeah, ... imo it needs fun and creativity in the game design - regardin the game mode. Only skills and 1 vs. 1 fighting or group fighting  - you have other games for that. And shooters.

The thing with the secondary map objectives is nice. I'd still love to see a game mode with teams like 10-20 vs. 10-20 where you would not get points by capture and holding and killing (like now in death match) but win by other objcetives. (Like destroying the enemy spawn or something like that. Capture the flag. But everything moved away from this and secondary mechanics got nerfed and Spirit Watch moved out of ranked.)

WvW unfortunately completely fails with regards to bigger team sizes. Too big. (Only zerging.) And no real objectives besides capturing and losing to recap again - for rewards.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Luna.6203]

Until all people get their legendary armour. Spvp in gw2 won't die.

[Ashantara.8731]

PvP is already dead. It's the worst game mode this game has. It is so imbalanced and toxic that it sucks the joy of competition out of you.

I'd recommend the devs take a look at GW1's Alliance Battles (and possibly GvG) to give GW2's PvP a proper overhaul, at least in the "fun department" regarding good PvP design (doubt anything can be done about the imbalance and toxicity at this point).
 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Lunia.2736]

18 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

PvP is already dead. It's the worst game mode this game has. It is so imbalanced and toxic that it sucks the joy of competition out of you.

I'd recommend the devs take a look at GW1's Alliance Battles (and possibly GvG) to give GW2's PvP a proper overhaul, at least in the "fun department" regarding good PvP design (doubt anything can be done about the imbalance and toxicity at this point).
 

This, the game needs more casual modes. 10v10, 15v15 (think WoW battlegrounds and please with good rewards unlike Stronghold)

Proper 2v2/3v3 arena (think WoW arena, current maps are pretty bad in the off-season mode)

Unranked/Ranked should probably be merged to just "Conquest" (just make PvP badge, win/loss and rating hidden by default)

Also tournaments need divisions, doesn't make sense to put a Bronze player team trying a tournament against Rank 55 Dragons, there's a reason every sport in the universe has different divisions and leagues. Just have tiered rewards.

PvP Population numbers are currently so low that the matchmaking algorithm doesn't even work anymore. You'll get games against 1800+ players when you're like 1400 lol

Balance patches alone aren't gonna cut it, they're great and all but they don't bring fresh blood to the game since they mostly just affect people already playing the mode or taking a small break from it. If you've never played League of Legends and it's receiving a balance patch you're not gonna suddenly be like "oh boy, time to try!" because of it

This game probably has the best combat system out of any MMORPG. It's a shame it's not being utilized to it's full potential... But a lot of people in this community sadly would rather whine about how new modes would "split the population" and continue to let the game bleed out....

Also an additional side effect to having PvP be good is that it attracts a lot of Twitch and YouTube content creators and viewers, most of the Twitch viewers on WoW for example are arena PvP streams. GW2 section is basically dead at this point but even then most of the top viewed streams are of people who are good at PvP (Boyce etc.). And yes, those platforms are a bigger deal than you might think.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Lunia.2736

[Nymthalas.4019]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:46 AM, Luthan.5236 said:

Only thing that could revive PvP would be fundamental changes to the game mode. Meaning more game modes ... (different than conquest and death match) - and other maps/team sizes. (Which will not happen cause people fear it might split the low playerbase ... at the beginning.)

For GW2 the PvE is keeping the game alive and some people might try out PvP - but it never will be a game purely played by people that just want to play PvP and buy it for PvP only. Only strategy can be to get player from PvE into PvP. (Not new players to GW2 that only want PvP.)

 

 

It's alive because of pve because anet wanted it that way. PvPers and WvWers are still in the game in part because for the combat system is one of the best, but they have made the game modes (PvP and WvW) to punish competitive people in a competitive game mode, and make it super casual, then when casual doesnt play much those game modes and people that likes them leave the game is all suprises "Who could have imagined?". 5 people party should be brought back, if you like pvp you will find party, if you just go in for the daily but you don't care... well game should prioritise placing unpartied ppl against also unpartied ppl, but pvp should be thought for ppl that likes pvp.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Nymthalas.4019

[Hotride.2187]

Your best bet is all the steam players get matched with each other and never set foot in wvw. I think in a noob-only environment competitive can feel OK (on every OK build).

But if you get p2+ players in unranked games of new players... just lol.

This saturday I had an unranked game where the opponent team had a duke of the arena, a ruthless legend and a baron of the arena. On willbender, harbringer and condi weaver (don't remember who was on what). My team didn't give up and did reasonably well, we lost 500-300.

Personally I play unranked to not have to deal with garbage like this coming from ranked... but I can live with 1-2 games being like that every 10 games. A player who doesn't have 100s of hours in spvp/wvw roaming? Lol. And as soon as they enter ranked also lol.

And this is even if balancing was perfect  (which, ta ta, cannot be further from the truth). You have players with thousands of hours (some even 10k+ hours) playing in the games of players with 10s of hours. That cant ever work in pvp.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[ShowKuyMaiKub.3762]

seriously need more pvp stuff 😞

[DoomNexus.5324]

On 5/15/2022 at 12:18 AM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Wouldn't worry too much. Gw2 is going to Steam with the benefit of having existed for a long time prior. If it lost 80% of its players in the first month that would be very surprising.

I think launching GW2 on steam with the current sPvP would be a death sentence for the game mode.
It's abysmal and it will not only have abysmal player retention, it will leave players very sour after their initial experience.
Most people from my old guild (like, ~2013-ish) left the game and never came back due to bad experiences created by Anet.
Anet has only one shot for creating a good first experience and this ain't it.

Sure, a lot of PvE players and probably WvW players will stick to the game so gw2 as a whole (and therefore in the steam charts) will probably have a pretty good player retention but not PvP.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

7 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

I think launching GW2 on steam with the current sPvP would be a death sentence for the game mode.
It's abysmal and it will not only have abysmal player retention, it will leave players very sour after their initial experience.
Most people from my old guild (like, ~2013-ish) left the game and never came back due to bad experiences created by Anet.
Anet has only one shot for creating a good first experience and this ain't it.

2013? That's surprisingly early to quit in all honesty. Like @greedywholesome.9081 said Gw2 came out with hella praise, good reviews, and general positivity. 

 

And most people with  their rose-tinted glasses on and fedoras at full tilt will actually site that time before HoT as "the good times." Even though on the PvP side; fights took forever, and PvP lacked many of the basic functionalities it has now.

Ah, hotjoins 😌 I remember when they first invented hotjoins. Sweet, scuffed hotjoins. I always hated them! 😡

7 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Sure, a lot of PvE players and probably WvW players will stick to the game so gw2 as a whole (and therefore in the steam charts) will probably have a pretty good player retention but not PvP.

Reckon that's right. For 0% of the attention, we give 0% of our attention.

Unless profession balance gets talked about in any capacity. Then for 0% we give 100%, naturally.

[Arklite.4013]

On 5/14/2022 at 2:49 PM, greedywholesome.9081 said:

Arena of Kings - Steam Charts

 

Played this free pvp game on Steam for a week then it just fizzled overnight despite getting coverage by "influencers"

Come one devs, get your game up. Ask your game designers to work on PvP during their lunch breaks. 

This kind of game has never worked. Battlerite, Bloodline Champions, this new game, etc. The presence of influencers is a non-factor when the game is doomed to fail regardless.

[greedywholesome.9081]

3 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

2013? That's surprisingly early to quit in all honesty. Like @greedywholesome.9081 said Gw2 came out with hella praise, good reviews, and general positivity. 

 

And most people with  their rose-tinted glasses on and fedoras at full tilt will actually site that time before HoT as "the good times." Even though on the PvP side; fights took forever, and PvP lacked many of the basic functionalities it has now.

Ah, hotjoins 😌 I remember when they first invented hotjoins. Sweet, scuffed hotjoins. I always hated them! 😡

Reckon that's right. For 0% of the attention, we give 0% of our attention.

Unless profession balance gets talked about in any capacity. Then for 0% we give 100%, naturally.

 

It's still a great game and I support it despite its imperfections. I hella like GW2. I don't PVE much but gosh darn most of the ppl in the open world are hella pleasant. Without asking, they'd fight help fight mobs for you, give advice. The PVE community of this game is such a good selling point. 

 

PvP game mechanics are the best even if the game is a decade old. Some classes need a bit of TLC though. 

 

I'll be friendly to the Steam ppl in hopes they stay 

[greedywholesome.9081]

1 hour ago, Arklite.4013 said:

This kind of game has never worked. Battlerite, Bloodline Champions, this new game, etc. The presence of influencers is a non-factor when the game is doomed to fail regardless.

 

Player base fell off a cliff, I guess I've never seen anything like it. Usually the decline is slow but going from a peak of 3000+ in Dec to 2 players in March kinda shocked me a bit. And yes after playing it for a while, it made love GW2 pvp even more...even if on maintenance mode for now

[DoomNexus.5324]

3 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

2013? That's surprisingly early to quit in all honesty. Like @greedywholesome.9081 said Gw2 came out with hella praise, good reviews, and general positivity. 

Yea those who permanently left farmed fractals to death, already had at least one legendary weapon for their main char (some even 2 or 3) and just didn't really know what they're supposed to do anymore in the game. Some really disliked the introduction of ascended gear and that Anet didn't stay true to not introducing a gear treadmill - which, admittedly, they haven't done since then but yea.. wasn't the best sign to just throw out your promises a couple months after release.
There just hasn't been very grindable PvE content back then because even the fractals were... not that great.

3 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

And most people with  their rose-tinted glasses on and fedoras at full tilt will actually site that time before HoT as "the good times." Even though on the PvP side; fights took forever, and PvP lacked many of the basic functionalities it has now.

I don't know, I honestly wasn't interested in sPvP that much back then. Just did some casual matches and only started to get invested in sPvP between HoT and PoF when I started watching Jawgeous.
Frost and Flame really disappointed me and the second half of LS1 as well as just LS as a concept was a huge letdown for me and most of my friends. I quit after the LS1 finale (all my friends quit way before I did) until well after HoT was released, so I obviously don't know how the balance was prior to that but I'd definitely say that it's been pretty much on a constant decline since then.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

8 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Yea those who permanently left farmed fractals to death, already had at least one legendary weapon for their main char (some even 2 or 3) and just didn't really know what they're supposed to do anymore in the game. Some really disliked the introduction of ascended gear and that Anet didn't stay true to not introducing a gear treadmill - which, admittedly, they haven't done since then but yea.. wasn't the best sign to just throw out your promises a couple months after release.
There just hasn't been very grindable PvE content back then because even the fractals were... not that great.

True, i've never really been a fan of them either really. Too repetitive, too predictable, and too taxing on my ADD warrior brain.

But that's what PvP is meant to make up for, no? 

8 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

I don't know, I honestly wasn't interested in sPvP that much back then. Just did some casual matches and only started to get invested in sPvP between HoT and PoF when I started watching Jawgeous.
Frost and Flame really disappointed me and the second half of LS1 as well as just LS as a concept was a huge letdown for me and most of my friends. I quit after the LS1 finale (all my friends quit way before I did) until well after HoT was released, so I obviously don't know how the balance was prior to that but I'd definitely say that it's been pretty much on a constant decline since then.

I'm in the same boat, but I wouldn't really call it a straight decline.

I think the core pre-HoT are highly overrated. Like I said the fights took too long back then and we didn't have a lot of basic QOL thingamajigs or even Ranked/Unranked arenas. 

Since then things have gotten better then worse. That's usually how profession balance goes in this game. New shiny elite specs come out with an expansion and gradually the older elite specs are nerfed down to the point of unplayability. Then occasionally Arenanet will rework something about these older specs and give birth to things like immortal chronobunker for a whole season.

It was especially terrible before EoD released because CmC; praise be, was a tad carefree with those nerfs if you ask me.

[Nymthalas.4019]

I think i like GW2 combat the most, but anet has killed PvP for me.

The big reason is the not being able to go with a 5 people party, not because im gonna stomp, im not close to be that good. But for me the fun of WvW and PvP is the challenge, trying to adapt your strategy, reading enemy strategy, learning together. In GW2 is the only game that in PvP you are forcing the play alone, in a F***** MMO. Ok, I can improve by myself, but not being able to improve as a group sucks the fun out of the game mode in which you have to play with a group, and the fun is precisely playing with a group. Also you dont get the feeling to play with them like a group, just like randoms we dont know each other (which is WAAAAAAY less fun).

Although there is players that like PvP and don't like to search for party (but I dont think that people that like pvp would be that bothered if they have to find/search party for themselves if that means more fun), I have the feeling that anet cancelled the  join to pvp as party mainly because of the pve players who just play 1 or 2 games for the dailies and forget(and those doesnt help much to keep the game mode up, most of them will mean low player rettention and not enough matches to keep the mode healthy), so my guess is that most PvP players got tired of playing alone because of that kitten and left, and thats why you have a dying game mode.

 

And might sound crazy but at this point tbh i think they should try to put together pvp pips and reward tracks with WvW, use WvW combat system, make pvp a 5 v 5 deatmatch (the actual mode of holding a node makes balancing combat numbers and mobility almost impossible between all game modes, i really think it should be better to make a 5 v 5 deathmatch mode and try to balance that with WvW mechanics and lets see if that also helps with WvW balancing), and doing pvp keeps your WvW participation good, and gives you bags or something, and also give ppk and maybe something else for your server.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Nymthalas.4019

[Testa.3675]

On 5/15/2022 at 1:53 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

PvP is already dead. It's the worst game mode this game has. It is so imbalanced and toxic that it sucks the joy of competition out of you.

I'd recommend the devs take a look at GW1's Alliance Battles (and possibly GvG) to give GW2's PvP a proper overhaul, at least in the "fun department" regarding good PvP design (doubt anything can be done about the imbalance and toxicity at this point).
 

 I returned a month ago after a 3 year absence but since im still rusty I didnt played PvP yet, but I hope they dont let it die(including the players). It would be really sad because this game is one of the best I've seen because it requires skill to be really good its not just "playing a piano" of skills.

 Also its normal that players get angry because many take it seriously and lets face it if you join ranked you should be really considerate of others and not waste anyone's time.

[voltaicbore.8012]

6 minutes ago, Testa.3675 said:

 I returned a month ago after a 3 year absence but since im still rusty I didnt played PvP yet, but I hope they dont let it die(including the players). It would be really sad because this game is one of the best I've seen because it requires skill to be really good its not just "playing a piano" of skills.

It's not fully dead yet, but many feel like it's about to go. Population really has bottomed out - as someone else already mentioned, gold 3 players (i.e. not particularly good players) are now seeing top 10 ranked players in their matches on a fairly regular basis. I personally experienced this 2 seasons ago.

1550 mmr used to just barely get you into the top 250. Now that's closer to a top 100 score - at least it was, when I last played ranked. I finally got my 3rd set of legendary spvp armor, and have officially quit ranked. I'll never touch it again unless they put some new legendary reward behind it, and I suspect I'm far from alone in this.

[Gundam Style.8495]

The leaderboard for NA has had the 250s dip into gold 3 for the first few weeks as people wait out their games to save rating, but yesterday the 250 ranked person was at 1288.

1288 to be on the leader board at 45 games in the season, I'm positive it has never been that low. Undoubtedly, this is evidence that the claims of facing top 10 as gold may be unquestionable now. It also means that the population has dropped significantly. 

 

It really isn't about balance as much as it is about viable options. Sad thing is the players that are using the strongest classes right now are complaining about trash tier classes that can situationallly annoy them....

 

1288 to be on the NA leader board, is it not a dead game mode?

Edited May 18, 2022 by Gundam Style.8495

[greedywholesome.9081]

 

Geez, either NA plays more unranked or it has really low population. It's probably and sadly the latter. In EU 250th place was around 1445