Tbh, what really sucks

[Puck.3697]

I actually really enjoy untamed. I think the ambush skills are neat, having the extra micromanagement with the pet is pretty cool. I like the utilities and the elites interesting. 

Yet untamed is only decent in one game mode and sucks in both pve and wvwvw content. And Hammer still sucks in every content. 

- Catalyst went south you fixed it. 

- willbender went south you fixed it. 

You've even launched several balance patches, one touching on rangers tail swipe (valid nerf I ain't defending it) but where are the pve buffs. Where is the hammer buffs.

And before someone says "oh well we getting alacrity. That must be why". No, untamed doesn't need to be garbage to update a core feature! It's going to equally suck if soulbeast can bring the Same utility with higher damage. 

And even then soubeast a 34k dps specc with the new specs doing 41k dps. 

Does it rly cost that much to get some buffs to hammers kit. Or atleast have soulbeast put on par with other power options? So it doesn't feel like we've been left a expansion behind other options. 

Druid isn't even that amazing anymore. So we can't even tie ourselves up in Druid jail to needed in Raids anymore. 

Feels like half of us are hoping the reason we aren't seeing changes yet is in hope we are getting larger ones come June. And the other half just stopped posting because mech delivered a better pet specc. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Beddo.1907]

Looking at the last nerf and following the Soulbeasts past PvP experience, there is a chance Untamed won't be very usable in PvP either. (Until there is a major patch)

So far there wasn't nearly enough time for them to fix Untamed in any way that isn't just dumping raw numbers into the kit, so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt with the Untamed changes.

The entire spec feels like the main idea just failed, so they added as many bandaids as they could giving us the following issues:
-No team synergy.
-CC focus which is absolutely useless in a good team.
-DPS doesn't reach the last DMG spec while also giving nothing to compensate for it or even something to match the stance value. 
-Hammer is annoying to use thanks to the skillset effect swap and long animations.
-Pet performance is now tied to the player which sounds nice on paper but in reality takes way too much focus since you don't control the pet location.
-Ambush skills are tied to Unleash which controls pet skills and hammer skills. (Seriously who approved multiple skill sets being tied to one state button)

I'd be amazed if they fixed it enough before fall tbh.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Tbh i am pretty sure that untamed will gain the scrapper treatment and will be the main choice for boon support.

They will probably change traits to give untamed better ways to distribute alac such that they will have a niche for PvE that can compete with druid or SLB for end game content. Otherwise i cannot see any other way this spec will find use for PvE outside of oPvE.

[mikexg.7329]

9 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

Tbh i am pretty sure that untamed will gain the scrapper treatment and will be the main choice for boon support.

They will probably change traits to give untamed better ways to distribute alac such that they will have a niche for PvE that can compete with druid or SLB for end game content. Otherwise i cannot see any other way this spec will find use for PvE outside of oPvE.

I'd be okay with that change, but I'll be  anxious about it until it happens.

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by mikexg.7329

[Krispera.5087]

What ranger needs is a complete rehaul. Just look at the skills and traits, they are so old. My hopium is that, the changes to Ranger and its especs are so big, that they can't just change something right now. It has to be a whole package. 

 

But let's be real here, Guardian gonna have more lines at the balancing patch in June. 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Krispera.5087

[Puck.3697]

14 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

Tbh i am pretty sure that untamed will gain the scrapper treatment and will be the main choice for boon support.

They will probably change traits to give untamed better ways to distribute alac such that they will have a niche for PvE that can compete with druid or SLB for end game content. Otherwise i cannot see any other way this spec will find use for PvE outside of oPvE.

 

Im not sure about this.

By doing this, we are condemning Druid realistically, Alacritys arrival is the only thing thats keeping druid looking to become alive again after the June patch.. and Soulbeast is Already filling a "Boon role" by Stance share builds.

Do u really beleive. Untamed being a Low Power DPS With alacrity will become the option above Mechanist?

It really wouldnt, Untamed would bring litterally NOTHING barring Alacrity. Alac Mirage would 10 fold this build and not even that is a Meta option.

Druid needs to become the Alacrity build. Because Druid has the 25 might, the Fury and the Healing to provide along side it to make it a Option against Mechanist.

Untamed can find a place.

Virtuoso Did, and they didnt need to tie any last minute buffs onto it, Willbender did and again its not even its Alacrity variant which did either.

Both these Speccs Brought a DPS Specc Ontop of ones already existing and they nailed it. the issue is they made both Soulbeast and Untamed POWER based DPS Speccs!

If One of the 2 became the Power Option and the other became the Condi option. they'd both see Play based on Team Comp and what they're fighting.

 

 

 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

By doing this, we are condemning Druid realistically, Alacritys arrival is the only thing thats keeping druid looking to become alive again after the June patch.. and Soulbeast is Already filling a "Boon role" by Stance share builds.

Virtuoso Did, and they didnt need to tie any last minute buffs onto it, Willbender did and again its not even its Alacrity variant which did either.

Both these Speccs Brought a DPS Specc Ontop of ones already existing and they nailed it. the issue is they made both Soulbeast and Untamed POWER based DPS Speccs!

 

 

 

By doing what? Reworking ranger to make its outdated profession mechanic and outdated skills (I don't think anyone has ever seriously used the skill Guard)? What are we condemning Druid to? Druid is already in need of a rework.

 

Soulbeast isn't a boon DPS. At best it's a very niche wvw boon support, or a power DPS/power burster in pvp modes.

 

Soulbeast is both power and condi. It's entire thing is flexibility with pet merging.

 

Untamed isn't good enough to justify taking right now, and alacrity probably won't make it good enough as a DPS due to being forced into the 'leashed' hammer.

 

Virtuoso brought back something mesmer needed- a worthwhile power DPS spec, after they nerfed chrono for being pretty insane

Willbender is scuffed and doesn't function well as an alac or a DPS.

[Puck.3697]

46 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

By doing what? Reworking ranger to make its outdated profession mechanic and outdated skills (I don't think anyone has ever seriously used the skill Guard)? What are we condemning Druid to? Druid is already in need of a rework.

i dont think u read my context.

If u change spirits. to giving alacrity, then Award Untamed the Traits which synergise with it specifically, your condeming our Support specc by Reducing the Spirits Power using it. by quite litterally REMOVING Support options to it.

to add to this, Ur Saying Druid is In need of a Rework, yet why exactly?... It was quite Litterally a Meta Support specc For a EXTREMELY long time prior the 10 man nerfs, It just needs Compensating for the fact it just got Halved in Power with the 5 man cut.

 

46 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Soulbeast isn't a boon DPS. At best it's a very niche wvw boon support, or a power DPS/power burster in pvp modes.

Soulbeast has builds which use Spirits (In replacement of Druid) and Run Stance Share, which does provide boons, far more then untamed does atleast.

46 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Untamed isn't good enough to justify taking right now, and alacrity probably won't make it good enough as a DPS due to being forced into the 'leashed' hammer.

I didnt say it was good enough. i said a way to make both SLB and untamed viable would be to drive them into condi and Power options rather then oboth being power.

 

46 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Virtuoso brought back something mesmer needed- a worthwhile power DPS spec, after they nerfed chrono for being pretty insane

Yes. Just like if untamed was a 40k DPS Power Specc it'd also be a Worthwhile Power DPS Lol.

46 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Willbender is scuffed and doesn't function well as an alac or a DPS.

what?

Willbender is Guardians Strongest Condi DPS Option right now? Lmao. What do u mean it doesnt function well as a DPS? XDDD

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Realistically, Alacrity should come through Celestial Avatar and we should just get a Druid rework apart from whatever they plan to do with spirits.  Give some meaning back to it and make the original support spec into a support spec again.

Just a blatant sprit rework is going to be disappointing as it won't fix anything.  Highly doubt any comps will change because of it, and I can't see taking spirits over boonbeast or immob druid. 

I also don't see the point of spirits on untamed unless they specifically buff the pet to be more resilient.  So, something like pet is unkillable while in range of an active spirit or something, but not sure they'd go that far at least not in competitive.  

As for topic, I agree Untamed is in a less than ideal spot, and we won't see any changes to it as they simply have no idea what to do with it, or any care to.  

[Puck.3697]

8 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Realistically, Alacrity should come through Celestial Avatar and we should just get a Druid rework apart from whatever they plan to do with spirits.  Give some meaning back to it and make the original support spec into a support spec again.

Just a blatant sprit rework is going to be disappointing as it won't fix anything.  Highly doubt any comps will change because of it, and I can't see taking spirits over boonbeast or immob druid. 

I also don't see the point of spirits on untamed unless they specifically buff the pet to be more resilient.  So, something like pet is unkillable while in range of an active spirit or something, but not sure they'd go that far at least not in competitive.  

As for topic, I agree Untamed is in a less than ideal spot, and we won't see any changes to it as they simply have no idea what to do with it, or any care to.  

well Yes if we were to go for what we absolutely want. but im not banking on a Druid Rework.

I'd like to see Druid get a Grandmaster trait, which turns Avatar into a Condi DPS Transform. and see Condi DPS Druids be a thing also, every other Healer seems capable of being a Pure DPS (Scourge, mechanist, Spectre Even tempest to quite a degree) but Druid absolutely sucks at it.

Untamed is currently a SPVP Choice effectively... i just wanna See hammer get buffed realistically.. even if its just to make it good in SPVP.

[Aeolus.3615]

19 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

well Yes if we were to go for what we absolutely want. but im not banking on a Druid Rework.

I'd like to see Druid get a Grandmaster trait, which turns Avatar into a Condi DPS Transform. and see Condi DPS Druids be a thing also, every other Healer seems capable of being a Pure DPS (Scourge, mechanist, Spectre Even tempest to quite a degree) but Druid absolutely sucks at it.

Untamed is currently a SPVP Choice effectively... i just wanna See hammer get buffed realistically.. even if its just to make it good in SPVP.

Rev can also heal/dps under some circunstances but will very squishy compared as most condi tankers that do way more dps,  about druid actually Druid lost its theme long time ago and IMO its the class in more worsen state in this game.

Druid is a cc bot mostly, staff is mostly a self heal and its skills are very poor imo, they should be more DPS orient with seconday support effects.

In wvw theres only 2 typed of druids, condi/expertise tanks and minstrells tanks....

Edited May 18, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Daddy.8125

Yeah thats a fair point. Druid would get shafted even more. All things considered rangers needs some major improvements outside of soulbeast to make the class itself more diverse and viable.

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Rev can also heal/dps under some circunstances but will very squishy compared as most condi tankers that do way more dps,  about druid actually Druid lost its theme long time ago and IMO its the class in more worsen state in this game.

Druid is a cc bot mostly, staff is mostly a self heal and its skills are very poor imo, they should be more DPS orient with seconday support effects.

In wvw theres only 2 typed of druids, condi/expertise tanks and minstrells tanks....

Pretty much druid feels incredibly shallow. Was anets first attempt at a support role and they never went back to reiterate on it. 

Druid has such huge amount of lore and depth to it aswell. 

I primarily hope my scepticism gets proved wrong and we do see druid reworked in June. But I struggle to hold onto that faith really. 

I'd love to see druid get other options in playstyle. 

[mikexg.7329]

12 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Pretty much druid feels incredibly shallow. Was anets first attempt at a support role and they never went back to reiterate on it. 

Druid has such huge amount of lore and depth to it aswell. 

I primarily hope my scepticism gets proved wrong and we do see druid reworked in June. But I struggle to hold onto that faith really. 

I'd love to see druid get other options in playstyle. 

I was very excited when they announced druid - I thought having a dedicated support class would really open up doors for ranger and change the game for the better.  Seems druid is pigeon holed into being a healer but they can't do it as well as others.  I would love to see druid changed to a support focused role instead of healing.  Maybe even a full rework of Astral Form, maybe steal some inspiration from Specter spec (emphasis on "some").

[Aeolus.3615]

22 hours ago, mikexg.7329 said:

I was very excited when they announced druid - I thought having a dedicated support class would really open up doors for ranger and change the game for the better.  Seems druid is pigeon holed into being a healer but they can't do it as well as others.  I would love to see druid changed to a support focused role instead of healing.  Maybe even a full rework of Astral Form, maybe steal some inspiration from Specter spec (emphasis on "some").

Druid could even be balanced with some DPS while being heal and support, balance its all about base quoficients and how they scale... One class can have strong base value but its quoficient scale is minimal, others  have a basic value and scale better, sometimes even awfull base value(CC skills im pointing at u) can have very good quoficient scale and imo this is how hammer warrior should work.. a trait where expertise would increase damage for the CC skills...trade offs.

IMO the main issue on druid its the staff skills that are a bit weird they tend to be a controller with some heals but even on that Anet fails to understand their own game(in a sense of having a pleassent balance experience), it simple doesnt work for very minimalist mistakes.

IMO this is how staff should work, its where ic that is killing the Druid into a good role.

Solar Beam: need to work on strait line hiting several targets in strait line like the balista, also self healing needs to be swaped by the outgoing heal, more for others than itself (1st rule of a suporter or a class thats ment to at least fill the healer role).

Astral Wisp: needs to become a weapon ammo skill (3 ammunition), would be amazing if could get the Septer class mechanic where it could be atached to enemies and allies.

Ancestral grace:  seams ok, it has a decent heal, maybe add a soff cc while dashing with the skill effect. 

Vine Surge: seams ok

Sublime conversion,: Increase healing by double at minimal(but remove the regen and replace it by heal on removing soft cc condis), that punish non dps player range, increase its duration from 5sec to 6sec, add 1sec imob (0,5 iif possible just to break flow of movement) to enemies that pass trough it.

Glyph on Avatar form should reward well,  staff skills on avatar form are amazing but glyps imo should become 10 targets since  Druid needs time to reach Avatar form and wont stay on it for a long period of time.

It is sad to see Anet buffing boon spam skills and adding more low effort boon stacking... and  utils that have no boon at all are temporary gameplay locked in some bar, and Anet even removed the 10 ally effect...al that avatar form glyps can offer is migh...and that need a trait wich competes  with Lingering Light wich makes Staff Avatar skills real dope!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Cytoplasma.8216]

imo

Unfortunately, the arena has not been heard for a long time.

unfortunately what the author wrote is true.

 

Nowadays -

 the druid is in the bin - no alacrity

soulbeast - it's okay but the new classes have much better dps

untamed - is trash

 

what arena doing with it?

Thread .

We've been playing this way since February and we don't actually play because you won't play a druid anymore - unless someone wants to push something on the raid, but that's it.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 hours ago, Cytoplasma.8216 said:

imo

Unfortunately, the arena has not been heard for a long time.

unfortunately what the author wrote is true.

 

Nowadays -

 the druid is in the bin - no alacrity

soulbeast - it's okay but the new classes have much better dps

untamed - is trash

 

what arena doing with it?

Thread .

We've been playing this way since February and we don't actually play because you won't play a druid anymore - unless someone wants to push something on the raid, but that's it.

Druid is still pretty popular- it's healing, boon application, and spirits have kept it afloat. June 28th, the next pve balance patch, we will be getting alacrity on spirits, while losing the unique effects, so I think it'll fit the mold better but be a little worse off than before.

 

Soulbeast isn't taken for its DPS bench alone, it's taken for its burst DPS. It hits a pretty insane 80k on the power build.

 

Untamed is indeed trash.

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Soulbeast isn't taken for its DPS bench alone, it's taken for its burst DPS. It hits a pretty insane 80k on the power build.

While i do agree, Soulbeast has its strength.

its Kinda lame we have a Core proffession + 3 elites.. and we can only currently write 1 thing positive about it.

6 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Druid is still pretty popular- it's healing, boon application, and spirits have kept it afloat. June 28th, the next pve balance patch, we will be getting alacrity on spirits, while losing the unique effects, so I think it'll fit the mold better but be a little worse off than before.

Druid is also called "Druid Jail" among raiders because No one wants to play it aswell realistically, even when it was Meta it was a case of telling ur Ranger "no choice buddy". not someone saying i WANT To be the druid.

its so shallow. it was the starting point for Support speccs. they just never went back and fixed it.

Look at firebrand. Look at Mech.. Look at Spectre. Multi role. Druid Never got modernised.

[Lazze.9870]

On 5/22/2022 at 1:55 AM, Daddy.8125 said:

its so shallow. it was the starting point for Support speccs. they just never went back and fixed it.

Anet's way of balancing druid while at the same time not fixing any of the clunkiness of it or buffing/reworking the bads has left it in its current state. At the same time they have done changes to the spirits as if they were meant to be used with druid, further pigeonholing it to the spirit bot build.

Druid used to be decent at multi roles. Zerker druid was a thing in fractals for various reasons, having decent healing with no healing power investements, being able to continue doing damage while casting Rejuvenating Tides and apply Grace of the Land instead of having to complete the cast. Pets also had the same damage potential as on core. Condi druid was widely used in raids. At the time, core ranger compared much better to other damage builds, which allowed picking a third traitline focused on support without falling way behind.

With better balance and fixes to the bad aspects of druid which has remained bad since day 1, it would have been in a much better place in regards of more varied builds. Core ranger also needs to be brought up to par to allow for a multi role to be viable, its power dps potential in pve is already lackluster before adding a support traitline to the mix. Untamed suffers from the same in pve, hence the ridiculous 25 % modifier which is basically a bandaid attempt to make up for some of the damage gap between the core baseline and the potential soulbeast has.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

39 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Anet's way of balancing druid while at the same time not fixing any of the clunkiness of it or buffing/reworking the bads has left it in its current state. At the same time they have done changes to the spirits as if they were meant to be used with druid, further pigeonholing it to the spirit bot build.

Druid used to be decent at multi roles. Zerker druid was a thing in fractals for various reasons, having decent healing with no healing power investements, being able to continue doing damage while casting Rejuvenating Tides and apply Grace of the Land instead of having to complete the cast. Pets also had the same damage potential as on core. Condi druid was widely used in raids. At the time, core ranger compared much better to other damage builds, which allowed picking a third traitline focused on support without falling way behind.

With better balance and fixes to the bad aspects of druid which has remained bad since day 1, it would have been in a much better place in regards of more varied builds. Core ranger also needs to be brought up to par to allow for a multi role to be viable, its power dps potential in pve is already lackluster before adding a support traitline to the mix.

Honestly, with glyphs, it feels like there's no hope. They need a massive rework to be useful, and druid is not going to get that.

[Cytoplasma.8216]

Druid is still pretty popular- it's healing, boon application, and spirits have kept it afloat. June 28th, the next pve balance patch, we will be getting alacrity on spirits, while losing the unique effects, so I think it'll fit the mold better but be a little worse off than before.

 

Yes - but look at heal mech
He's giving out more boons with much less effort. Plus it gives you barriers.

For example - mighty. Druid needs a special trait.
Mech Deals mighty away so clicking other spells.
Plus aegis, stability and much more.

[Dadnir.5038]

What really suck? The Pet mechanism really suck.

Having the pet as the main mechanism is equivalent to having no main mechanic at all in large scale PvP where the pet is dead meat.

In PvE, as your damage and ability to support are shared with the pet, leading to lower potential effectiveness since the pet cannot be specialized in a specific role (you could say, unlike mechanist's mech).

In small scale PvP, the pet have proven to be a source of hate that the devs are more than willing to tone down to oblivion whenever one of them stand out.

The pet die easily, eat up at a part of your potential when as a main mechanism it should push this potential further and the ranger is encouraged to perform as much interaction with it's pet as possible despite a poor control over the pet itself.

All in all, the ranger's core mechanism is the source of the issue that hurt all e-specs down the line.

 

Why do core suck? The pet is poorly designed, full of flaws. It cannot specialize, it's heavily suceptible to damage, you can barely control it, it eat up a part of the damage/support potential of the ranger and, all in all, it's poor utility wise.

Why do druid suck? While the avatar is nice as a mechanic, you're supposed to make the most out of the pet when the avatar is in down time, yet the pet isn't designed well enough to support the druid gameplay.

Why do Soulbeast suck? Theoretically the soulbeast shouldn't camp the beast mode and, instead, dance in and out of this mode and make the most out of it's interactions with it's pet, yet leaving beastmode to play along with your pet is unattractive due to how poorly designed the pet is.

Why do Untamed suck? Untamed was designed to focus on the poorly designed pet, trying to soothe some of it's flaws through increased complexity. Yet where we would expect the pet to contribute to the Untamed gameplay in a holistic way, it's doesn't. It remain an hindrance, a dead weight dragging down it's master. Funnily enough, ambushes let the Untamed distance itself from the pet, ignore it but it doesn't mean that it's enough to bridge the handicap/dead weight that the pet is.

 

I get that there is an ideal gameplay involving the pet around which the ranger is designed. Switching it, providing it with temporary effect, commanding it, letting it share incoming effects and making use of it's "beast skill". However, it's an unreliable AI suceptible to damage, the control of the ranger over it is poor and the pet skillsets are a mess with long CD and cast time. No matter what e-spec they make, as long as the spec is supposed to interact even a bit with such poorly designed pet, it's going to show unsatisfying result.

[Puck.3697]

8 hours ago, Cytoplasma.8216 said:

Druid is still pretty popular- it's healing, boon application, and spirits have kept it afloat. June 28th, the next pve balance patch, we will be getting alacrity on spirits, while losing the unique effects, so I think it'll fit the mold better but be a little worse off than before.

 

Yes - but look at heal mech
He's giving out more boons with much less effort. Plus it gives you barriers.

For example - mighty. Druid needs a special trait.
Mech Deals mighty away so clicking other spells.
Plus aegis, stability and much more.

It's popular because people force rangers to play it, not because rangers want to play it. I'm sorry. But it's considered actually very boring to play by most players. 

The reason it got played was because it was meta it was considered "jail" for rangers. 

Something being meta doesn't make it popular. It means it's played for results. 

It's extremely shallow in concept, it offers 0 variation in playstyle and is just not very fun. 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 5/21/2022 at 6:11 PM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Druid is still pretty popular- it's healing, boon application, and spirits have kept it afloat. June 28th, the next pve balance patch, we will be getting alacrity on spirits, while losing the unique effects, so I think it'll fit the mold better but be a little worse off than before.

 

Soulbeast isn't taken for its DPS bench alone, it's taken for its burst DPS. It hits a pretty insane 80k on the power build.

 

Untamed is indeed trash.

its quikness not alacrity based on https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Quickening_Zephyr

Warrio banners will  get alacrity

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

its quikness not alacrity based on https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Quickening_Zephyr

Warrio banners will  get alacrity

1. Why did you reply with the GW1 quickening zephyr, and 2. Anet has already confirmed who's getting what.