The ugly truth about alliance timeline.

[jul.7602]

I think it's time that we reset expectations again. Alliances is not going to be completed this year. At the absolute earliest, expect it be done by Q1 of 2023. Realistically, looking at the pace of this project (reportedly started back up in 2021) I'd say maybe Q2 of 2023 for a complete project. However, what I don't think people should be ruling out is that we may never actually get alliances at all. Yes, that's correct it is possible that work on Alliances will be canceled or put on indefinite hold, just like in 2019 when NCSOFT laid off a bunch of employees during a restructure of their company. Without turning this into an economic forecasting discussion, lets consider that the chances of a global recession in 2023 (if not earlier by end of 2022) is quite high. That means slowing growth and revenues for NCSOFT, which will almost certainly lead to another company restructure. The last time NCSOFT restructured was in 2019, but was implied much earlier in the 2018 Q4 conference call (fast forward to 16:30 through about 18:00), after a reporting a less than stellar earnings report. What entailed in this restructure was a rather widespread staff reduction in their overseas subsidiaries, namely ANET and Iron Tiger Studios. Given the direction the world economy is going, it's certainly possible that NCSOFT does another mass layoffs again, which will probably means somewhere in ANET, which usually means something like this would get put on hold.

 

[Xenesis.6389]

I don't know what you're on about, alliances is scheduled to release in 2021 as per their message

https://i.imgur.com/VbUO6ma.jpg

It's still marked on their calenders in the offices for 2021 release.

 

🤡

[Dawdler.8521]

First we heard of alliances in 2018 when a dev laid out how the system would work from a top down level.

But tbh, we are more likely to get alliances before Anet fix the broken DBL garri wall corner.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Zok.4956]

8 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

I don't know what you're on about, alliances is scheduled to release in 2021 as per their message

https://i.imgur.com/VbUO6ma.jpg

It's still marked on their calenders in the offices for 2021 release.

 

🤡

The wording "this year" in 2021 meant, that they really will start (have started) working on this topic in 2021.  It's the "start of work" year, not the "end of work" year. 😎

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

I don't know what you're on about, alliances is scheduled to release in 2021 as per their message

https://i.imgur.com/VbUO6ma.jpg

It's still marked on their calenders in the offices for 2021 release.

 

🤡

They really found a lot of hot air to rest their hype on. No game mode is the cornerstone of anything if it only has like one or two hours of prime time activity a day (sometimes no one is doing anything at all) that the game mode was actually designed for. The loud portion of the WvW players that wants Alliances, "balance", and flat open ground with "no pve gimmicks" pretty much have everything they wanted at this point so I don't expect any renewed urgency. 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

Wait..  How is anything you’ve posted new info?  
 

We’ve expected for years that we’d be strung along and likely not have a working system (or even a broken system they wanted to pass off as alliances) anytime in the near, or far future.  #allianceswhen is a meme.  
 

I hope I am proven wrong but if you actually have your hopes up for improvements in this ‘cornerstone mode’ when they can’t even replace an ACTUAL cornerstone WITHIN the mode, then I pity you…. 😥

Edited June 7, 2022 by Strider Pj.2193

[CrimsonRise.7650]

Obviously, WvW has not been high priority for at least 4 years since PoF, besides the Elite Spec balance nerfs, wvw mount and pip change. Especially  since Alliances was abandoned, shortly after they 'announced' they were working on a big overhaul.

The Balance Changes to the Elite Specs was much needed, but it was always going to happen seeing as how broken some things were after PoF's launch anyway, the rest not so important, with the Linking System being permanently implemented, especially since it's the pretty much same flawed System they've used for the past 4 years.

Alliances will come eventually, but you can imagine it's still a small dev team.

Edited June 9, 2022 by CrimsonNeonite.1048

[Sahne.6950]

With all due respect... They announced it back in 2018! it is 2022 by now....

Durig this time:

-I have finished school, started a Jobtraining, finished that aswell and i am working in my job for 2 years now.

-i have met my wife and married her.

-We have build a new house just with 4 people working on the weekends.

-we have seen the rise and fall of Trump.

-#Blackpower happened.

-Brexit happened.

-Covid happened.

-Games started their development, went thru multiple betas, released, and died (Newworld; had 1 million players on launch, currently playing 9562 players)

-CoD has dropped 6 Full games, with 5-6 expansions each.

-yada,yada

-basicly just think about how much has changd in your life since 2018....

 

 

meanwhile Guildwars2 players: #Alliancewhen?

Seriously! When they first annouced alliances, i could have started my jobtraining as a programmer, finish it, let Anet hire me and develop it. And even then it should be done by now, if they were actually making it somewhat of a priority.

anyone that actually thinks that developing such a feature takes anything close to 4 years, is delusional. The ammount of time it takes them to implement this, shows how much they neglect this "Cornerstone".

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 6/7/2022 at 9:58 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

First we heard of alliances in 2018

 

17 hours ago, CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:

Obviously, WvW has not been high priority for ar least 4 years

 

7 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

With all due respect... They announced it back in 2018!

2013-2018 🤡

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

 

 

2013-2018 🤡

Except they where talking about EoTM in 2013/2014 and the skirmish/linking/1-up-1-down matchup systems in 2016. EoTM as kitten as it is does exist, the skirmish system is VASTLY better than what we had before, the links where the only way to try to balance populations and the matchup system at least isnt glicko.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[subversiontwo.7501]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Except they where talking about EoTM in 2013/2014 and the skirmish/linking/1-up-1-down matchup systems in 2016. EoTM as kitten as it is does exist, the skirmish system is VASTLY better than what we had before, the links where the only way to try to balance populations and the matchup system at least isnt glicko.

Friend, you can keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel any better.

However, the reality is that all these things were first meant to deal with the same things: Population imbalance between servers and friends split across servers (transfering). Nore do they refer to the things you describe, even if the information was released together with those various incomplete or temporary changes.

If one is to nitpick, the 2013 qoute refers to what essentially later became the EotM-color beta, all the qoutes between 2014 and 2016 all refer to a cancelled first-iteration project of alliances, the 2016 qoute from the relink thread refers to alliances (the more elaborate system) as later announced in 2018.

Here are some of the comments that confirmed the project scrapped (a keen observer will also see it ring very close to what they said about shipping alliances in pieces last year):

As per this thread we also know what happened 2016-2018:

Some things in Anet's communication about this just keeps repeating themselves: We need to fix populations, the projects are large and will take time (so bear with us), we need to ship in pieces or with placeholders, we have a different cadence than expansions (so you got nothing from HoT/PoF/EoD), we have not forgotten, we forgot/we are sorry, resources got shifted away, we will communicate better, WvW is important to us. So it loops.

So you take what you learnt here and you apply it to this thread:

Does it seem familiar? That's why I'm clowning Grouch a bit. Not because he's a bad guy or to shoot the messenger. Simply because it's still the same stuff. He should know better and so should you.

Edited June 9, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[subversiontwo.7501]

Since I'm already wasting my time here I might as well add this too:

Because if you go to the most recent exchange with Grouch you can see the community still behave like this. Not just some random players either, but representatives for broader community projects with expressed intent to mend fences and better the game. Now, most exchanges are rather benign and more tongue-in-cheek than anything to be upset about. However, the context is problematic because quite alot of players in this thread (from 2016) have already quit this game over these issues and WvW players keep getting tarred as demanding, unthankful or just negative. When that isn't necessarily the truth and most feedback ranges between concerned and constructive, negative but still constructive or at worst uninvested and cheeky.

Grouch, like anyone else, can listen to the people who speak the truth or those that pat him on the back. Ultimately, those things have implications for the game and his studio.

Edited June 9, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Gorem.8104]

On 6/8/2022 at 5:57 AM, Xenesis.6389 said:

I don't know what you're on about, alliances is scheduled to release in 2021 as per their message

https://i.imgur.com/VbUO6ma.jpg

It's still marked on their calenders in the offices for 2021 release.

 

🤡

I love how we had the one single update over half a year ago now that changes the pip system and removed Outnumbered pips on the basis that "Well, outnumbered won't be a thing anymore with alliances" as they removed participation from Siege attack use and wall repair. 
And then just... Silence. I'd hate honestly to have been on an outnumbered server all this time, to have had your one advantage taken away and then told it'll be ok, only for it to not be ok for over 8 months. 

[Zok.4956]

14 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Does it seem familiar? That's why I'm clowning Grouch a bit. Not because he's a bad guy or to shoot the messenger. Simply because it's still the same stuff.

(my comment from another thread about this topic):

I welcome his open communication, but Josh Davies is just confirming the obvious that no work has been done on it since it was announced in 2018 until last year.

I believe him that he wants to move the project forward now, but he's only one person and the studio has a tradition of quietly shelving projects.

[Svarty.8019]

I think nobody has any hope for WvW improving anymore. That #CornerStoneMeme turned out to be Fake News. We have zero faith in Arenanet, they've almost entirely ignored WvW since HoT. 

 

In return, we'll be leaving as soon as something decent becomes a viable alternative. I know there's a lot of people in a similar situation - so don't be surprised if one day WvW suddenly dies. The blame lies squarely at the door of Arenanet.

[Dawdler.8521]

7 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

In return, we'll be leaving as soon as something decent becomes a viable alternative. I know there's a lot of people in a similar situation - so don't be surprised if one day WvW suddenly dies. The blame lies squarely at the door of Arenanet.

Suddenly? But WvW died when Camelot Unchained was released, back before HoT was even released. That's what the forum declared.

[Mabi black.1824]

11 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

I know there's a lot of people in a similar situation - so don't be surprised if one day WvW suddenly dies. The blame lies squarely at the door of Arenanet.

it is true that there are really many people who have passion for this game mode, just like me or like you svarty.

also arenanet told us that it has seen an increase in flows in pve with EOD and I do not exclude that in its time we will be able to see these new players arrive in wvw once all the various adventures are over or when only out of curiosity they will also try this game mode.

also here on the forum you find many players who put their passion / fun in this game and consequently want, desire, I myself probably often ask for very complicated things if not impossible for arenanet.

after many years of gaming and fun in gw2 I entered the forum practically with the first beta or just before, when they explained alliances to me when they told me that they would delete my server. deleted my server? after all the blood he shed for my server?

who is that fool who made this decision? let's see if I can be a small bee in the big hive and be of help in some way. and so I entered the forum. I discovered that behind alliance there is a great expectation, a lot of reasoning, that there is an arenanet company that has gone through difficult times, but that in fact there has done a great job with EOD and also in wvw is working / modifying parameters for balancing in addition to the new specializations that we have seen.

what I miss the most since I entered the forum is a comparison / dialogue with any developer. I have to be honest I thought I could find it here, but it was not, probably a business choice. which I would gladly question.

[Zok.4956]

2 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

what I miss the most since I entered the forum is a comparison / dialogue with any developer. I have to be honest I thought I could find it here, but it was not, probably a business choice. which I would gladly question.

If you want a dialogue with the devs there are two choices that have a much bigger chance of success than writing here on the official game forum:

1. Sign up on Reddit. Anet Devs read and write and respond on Reddit but seem to dislike the official GW2 forum.

2. Create a Youtube and/or Twitch account, start streaming, become a content creator, don't criticise the game too much, create your own fan community, let some fanboys regularly post links to your Youtube videos on this forum and get Anet partner status. This will give you sometimes internal heads ups and it seems that Anet developers will listen a lot more to your feedback.

 

[Justine.6351]

Yeah the recession is here. Its supposed to be the busy time of year for my company but the guys were told "no overtime". Already talking small layoffs as early as next week.

[bigmouse.2163]

I find the neglect of WvW (and spvp for that matter) especially frustrating because I really do think this game has the best combat of any MMO right now. After I left GW2 last time I went to Archeage, which is a cool game in many ways, but it doesn't have GW2's combat - nothing else does. My only other options are old MMO's, super-grindy P2W stuff, Camelot Unreleased, and watching Ashes of Creation videos on youtube.

[Gorem.8104]

2 hours ago, bigmouse.2163 said:

I find the neglect of WvW (and spvp for that matter) especially frustrating because I really do think this game has the best combat of any MMO right now. After I left GW2 last time I went to Archeage, which is a cool game in many ways, but it doesn't have GW2's combat - nothing else does. My only other options are old MMO's, super-grindy P2W stuff, Camelot Unreleased, and watching Ashes of Creation videos on youtube.

Ya know, if Ashes of Creation works and turns out to be a good game, I could see that being one of the reasons wvw dies completely. Its essentially the true next level. Purely because Anet seems to want to ignore that this gamemode even exists and appears to just pretend to care as they do updates that go against what people are asking for. 
Was there even a single "Nerf Spell breaker" thread here over the past year?.... 

Ashes of Creation on the other hand, I truly hope it does work, but at the same time, could be very costly for gw2 as I could see a lot of players moving from here to there, not just the wvw players. Lost Ark was too different (and has 1,000% more bots then actual players) and New world failed at launch, so we've not really seen an impact of a new good mmo yet. 
GW2 could easily stand the test of time, if Anet puts in the effort and stops ignoring these forums entirely. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Dawdler.8521]

 

56 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Ya know, if Ashes of Creation works and turns out to be a good game, I could see that being one of the reasons wvw dies completely. Its essentially the true next level.

Subscription based, with a supposedly pretty high one at that. Quick read of course shows it employing the same tactics as Archeage did (despite specifically mentioning they dislike what Archeage did) with an ingame pyramid scheme for subscriptions and preying on peoples fear of loosing things like housing if they ever stop paying the subscriptions.

Failure out of the gate.

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Ya know, if Ashes of Creation works and turns out to be a good game, I could see that being one of the reasons wvw dies completely. Its essentially the true next level. Purely because Anet seems to want to ignore that this gamemode even exists and appears to just pretend to care as they do updates that go against what people are asking for. 
Was there even a single "Nerf Spell breaker" thread here over the past year?.... 

Ashes of Creation on the other hand, I truly hope it does work, but at the same time, could be very costly for gw2 as I could see a lot of players moving from here to there, not just the wvw players. Lost Ark was too different (and has 1,000% more bots then actual players) and New world failed at launch, so we've not really seen an impact of a new good mmo yet. 
GW2 could easily stand the test of time, if Anet puts in the effort and stops ignoring these forums entirely. 

Even if they lose a good number of WvW players, it won’t impact their bottom line significantly.  Or at least that is my suspicion at this point as if there was a fear of losing us, they’d update it more.  
 

It would appear that what sells this game is the crappy story and the PvE.

[Xenesis.6389]

Yeah I dunno where the hype for AoC is coming from, other than desperation for another mmo. Haven't looked into it deeply but doesn't look anything special, just giving off the same vibes as black desert or archeage. Plus a b2p, sub, AND cash shop? lol yeah, no, I don't agree with double dipping, you do one or the other.

Bottom line, no amount of "competition" is going to scare anet into anything, whatever grand plans they had for wvw is long gone, they, do, not, care.

[Gorem.8104]

17 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Yeah I dunno where the hype for AoC is coming from, other than desperation for another mmo. Haven't looked into it deeply but doesn't look anything special, just giving off the same vibes as black desert or archeage. Plus a b2p, sub, AND cash shop? lol yeah, no, I don't agree with double dipping, you do one or the other.

Bottom line, no amount of "competition" is going to scare anet into anything, whatever grand plans they had for wvw is long gone, they, do, not, care.

 

Well I mean its a world where your actions directly effect the game world itself, where you can lay siege to entire towns that guilds own and build up defences for, using actual siege warefare. True guild verse guild fashion, where raid bosses are determined by what is done from server to server as they change dramatically depending on what players actions are. Though I wonder if that will play on peoples fear of missing out, as of course, if you left for a year there your server would be extremely different depending on how towns and cities have been developed or if others have come a long to destroy them and re-build them as they see fit. 

Like, if AoC is successful and is done well, it could be next generation gaming. Maybe that is why it has so much hype around it. The true future of mmo's ect. Something that will essentially replace all current mmo's.