Harmbringers & Willblenders is overtuned please nerf

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:23 AM, Gibson.4036 said:

Aw, one of the best matches I played last night was 14:26. Not because people couldn't kill each other, but because both teams were anticipating each other well in rotation. It was edge of the seat stuff. Everybody was so happy in chat at the end, congratulating each other on a great game.

I'd much rather matches like those than "Why does it feel the last 50 points are taking forever at 450-72".

.

.

EDIT: I'm in no way advocating a bunker meta. Just that a long, tense match can be kinda awesome.

Ah yes, this is what we call GGs. Unfortunately they are far and in between nowadays.

This is mainly because of mobility creep making targeted chase potential much stronger than general rotational mobility or disengage. It has resulted in a snowball meta where a team who goes on full wipe cannot respawn and get back to nodes without being immediately ganked by the chasers with no realistic way to avoid them to get back to nodes. It makes games that once looked like 500 to 300 loss now look like 500 to 30.

EOD specs brought waaaaaay too much mobility creep. Willblender being the biggest culprit who in no way needed to have DP Daredevil level mobility.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[JunkJunk.8971]

Amen..  This is one of the main reasons PVP stinks right now..   I can hop across maps asnd just stay 

far even after I wipe.. Takes me 2 rocket boots and f1 superspeed.  I give up nothing to do that..   

 

WB are worse.. 

 

They need to nerf mobility

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

26 minutes ago, JunkJunk.8971 said:

Amen..  This is one of the main reasons PVP stinks right now..   I can hop across maps asnd just stay 

far even after I wipe.. Takes me 2 rocket boots and f1 superspeed.  I give up nothing to do that..   

 

They need to nerf mobility

 

No. We don't need this to be more boring and point centered than it already is. 

 

They need to keep some classes mobile, but the ones that are less mobile should hit like a truck to compensate for being outrun, so "go far brr" is humbled by "will get deleted again by the glass cannon already there"

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Or just make these super mobile classes have 1 or no dodges instead of 2.

Willbender for sure needs to be hit with some sustain nerfs or just unbloat some of its skills.

Blinds + Blocks + Aegis + Teleports + 2 dodges all in one build ontop of high damage and mobility is just someone who doesnt know how to design a class.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Or just make these super mobile classes have 1 or no dodges instead of 2.

Willbender for sure needs to be hit with some sustain nerfs or just unbloat some of its skills.

Blinds + Blocks + Aegis + Teleports + 2 dodges all in one build ontop of high damage and mobility is just someone who doesnt know how to design a class.

I almost agree with you here.

If WB went down to 1 dodge roll, I wouldn't be opposed to that approach.

Harb though, it really needs a great deal of increased CD times.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Kuma.1503]

🍔 just needs to be squishy. It was marketed as a high risk high reward spec, but in reality it's a low-risk high reward spec. 

Perfect example is Alchemic Vigor. They're supposed to be low hp glass canons if they go into shroud, but they have a free 240 vitality buffer to work with on top of the free sustain blight gives. It's heat therapy+ on Necro. 

I wouldn't mind 🍔 being able to melt hp bars as much as it can if you could easily melt them back. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Kuma.1503
:hamburger:

[Ghos.1326]

Y'all remember playing full defensive Scrapper and still being less tanky than a high risk/high reward build? Ah, I 'member....

We know Anet is going to buff the Kitten out of Guard and Necro.

No hope and no cope for Anet, folks.

[Ziegrif.5964]

On 6/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

Misread title as Hamburgers and Willblenders. 

Cannot unsee. Will be calling Necros Hamburgers from this point onward. 🍔

Call me the hamburglar cuz I came in and stole your point. 

[Hotride.2187]

7 minutes ago, Ziegrif.5964 said:

Call me the hamburglar cuz I came in and stole your point. 

And you had a pistol. And looked shady.

[Ragnar.4257]

22 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Or just make these super mobile classes have 1 or no dodges instead of 2.

Willbender for sure needs to be hit with some sustain nerfs or just unbloat some of its skills.

Blinds + Blocks + Aegis + Teleports + 2 dodges all in one build ontop of high damage and mobility is just someone who doesnt know how to design a class.

1. What blocks does WB have (on the meta build)? Since you list Aegis separately from Block..... what Block are you referring to?

2. WB had the exact same list of capabilities on EoD release, but on EoD release it was considered a joke spec which nobody wanted on their team and labelled "Feedbender". A month after release it got some numerical buffs and CD reductions, but none of its actual capabilities changed, and this moved it up to S-tier. So are you really sure that's it's WB's intrinsic capabilities which are an issue, or just the numeric values? And if you do think its the intrinsic capabilities, then please explain why it was so useless on EoD release.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Crab Fear.8623]

1 hour ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

1. What blocks does WB have (on the meta build)? Since you list Aegis separately from Block..... what Block are you referring to?

2. WB had the exact same list of capabilities on EoD release, but on EoD release it was considered a joke spec which nobody wanted on their team and labelled "Feedbender". A month after release it got some numerical buffs and CD reductions, but none of its actual capabilities changed, and this moved it up to S-tier. So are you really sure that's it's WB's intrinsic capabilities which are an issue, or just the numeric values? And if you do think its the intrinsic capabilities, then please explain why it was so useless on EoD release.

It wasn't useless though

[Ragnar.4257]

22 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

It wasn't useless though

It was. 

That's not my opinion. That's the opinion of basically every top player/streamer at the time of EoD release.

Here is first MAT 1 month after EoD release. Not a single WB in sight, people still taking Herald in that slot:

I swear to god people have such goldfish memories. Can't remember what happened 3 months ago.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Crab Fear.8623]

48 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

It was. 

That's not my opinion. That's the opinion of basically every top player/streamer at the time of EoD release.

Here is first MAT 1 month after EoD release. Not a single WB in sight, people still taking Herald in that slot:

I swear to god people have such goldfish memories. Can't remember what happened 3 months ago.

Delusional top players, it wasn't trash.

Most "TOP" players are incredibly inept at theory crafting, nothing wrong with their mechanical skill, but I've never seen them with insightful commentary.

Their input is usually self serving.

Willbender is about to get dumpstered hopefully, even more than it was before the buffs, and then you can actually see what useless is.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Crab Fear.8623

[Sindrener.1592]

3 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

Delusional top players, it wasn't trash.

Most "TOP" players are incredibly inept at theory crafting, nothing wrong with their mechanical skill, but I've never seen them with insightful commentary.

Their input is usually self serving.

Willbender is about to get dumpstered hopefully, even more than it was before the buffs, and then you can actually see what useless is.

Agree they all potato at theorycrafting 

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

So are you really sure that's it's WB's intrinsic capabilities which are an issue, or just the numeric values?

Capabilities are defined by numbers ...

[Ragnar.4257]

1 minute ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Capabilities are defined by numbers ...

Fine, "mechanics", Captain Semantics. You know what I meant.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Zyreva.1078]

5 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Fine, "mechanics", Captain Semantics. You know what I meant.

Not really, since it's mostly numbers that are complained about when it comes to willbender (and rightfully so), not mechanics.

Edited June 24, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Ragnar.4257]

3 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Not really, since it's mostly numbers that are complained about when it comes to willbender (and rightfully so), not mechanics.

Have you read this thread? What I originally replied to was a statement that WB is mechanically broken, not numerically.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Zyreva.1078]

1 minute ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Have you read this thread? What I originally replied to was a statement that WB is mechanically broken, not just numerically.

It was a complaint about the amount of survivability, damage and mobility all in one. All those things are ultimatively defined by numbers.

[Ragnar.4257]

Just now, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

It was a complaint about the amount of survivability, damage and mobility all in one. All those things are ultimatively defined by numbers.

No, it was a complaint about, and I quote: "Blinds + Blocks + Aegis + Teleports + 2 dodges". These are the same regardless of numbers. These are mechanics.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

2 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

1. What blocks does WB have (on the meta build)? Since you list Aegis separately from Block..... what Block are you referring to?

2. WB had the exact same list of capabilities on EoD release, but on EoD release it was considered a joke spec which nobody wanted on their team and labelled "Feedbender". A month after release it got some numerical buffs and CD reductions, but none of its actual capabilities changed, and this moved it up to S-tier. So are you really sure that's it's WB's intrinsic capabilities which are an issue, or just the numeric values? And if you do think its the intrinsic capabilities, then please explain why it was so useless on EoD release.

1) Focus block. Idk what's used in "meta".

2) Cant speak for people's opinions months ago, many were probably inexperienced with what they were talking about. Focusing on the now though.

[Ragnar.4257]

17 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

1) Focus block. Idk what's used in "meta".

2) Cant speak for people's opinions months ago, many were probably inexperienced with what they were talking about. Focusing on the now though.

Focus is not used in the meta build. The meta build infact has ZERO blocks. I don't know why you would complain about off-meta builds that nobody plays, or suggest that weapons nobody uses are what makes it OP. Infact I don't know on what basis you can even form any opinion of what is/isn't strong while not being aware of the meta.

Its not just about experience. WB has been buffed SINCE release. I am comparing its state on release to its state now. Mechanically, nothing has changed on WB since release. Only numbers were buffed. This implies that it is not mechanically broken, as you suggest, but simply numerically broken.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Zyreva.1078]

11 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

No, it was a complaint about, and I quote: "Blinds + Blocks + Aegis + Teleports + 2 dodges". These are the same regardless of numbers. These are mechanics.

Every guard spec has access to those mechanics. Heck mesmers too. Yet those are not what's getting complained about, so maybe, just maybe, that's because of the numbers associated with those mechanics.

Edited June 24, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Ragnar.4257]

5 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Every guard spec has access to those mechanics. Heck mesmers too. Yet those are not what's getting complained about, so maybe, just maybe, that's because of the numbers behind those mechanics.

I AGREE IT IS THE NUMBERS

Jesus Christ, how are you not getting this? I am pushing back on the people who are saying it is MECHANICALLY broken, of which there are examples you can read in this very thread.

YOU are not complaining about mechanics, but other people are. Those are the people I'm speaking to.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Zyreva.1078]

I get what you are trying to say, i just don't see complaints about mechanics specifically. Like yes, players mention mechanics, but since those mechanics on their own are not what's differentiating willbender from other specs, how can it be not about the numbers? It's like if i say, "harbingers healing is a problem" do you also interpret that as "healing as a mechanic is the  problem and it should be removed from said spec"? It could still be healed by others after all, now also in shround!

Edited June 24, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907