Do you like playing with Engineering Kits?

[santenal.1054]

With the recent revelations of an anet dev thinking that most engineers dont like playing with engineering kits, voice your opinion. 

[DarkReaver.8437]

I always use the mortar kit on my main build and am traited to make full use of them. Are they the best? No, but I love it anyway. From time to time I switch to others and use them too because I feel they're a core part of the Engineer.

Edited September 6, 2022 by DarkReaver.8437
Spelling correction

[bethekey.8314]

Kits and the toolbelt are literally why Engineer doesn't have a weapon swap. They're integral to the class design.

Imagine not using any kits and not having a toolbelt (looking at you Mechanist). You'll have ~1/3rd less abilities to press than other classes and the disparity grows compared to Elementalist and Shroud/Form classes. Is your smaller set of skills more powerful to compensate?

No. Engineer not only has the fewest weapons in the game, it also has some of the weakest (maybe not anymore with Rifle changes?). So while every other class has equally strong, if not stronger abilities, they have more of them to use/save for the appropriate situation while kitless Engineer is stuck auto-attacking.

The complexity and fun of Engineer, for me, comes in the flow between many unique kits and skills. It's rewarding gameplay. It's embarrassing that the lead Skills & Balance developer doesn't understand this fundamental aspect of a whole class.

P.S. To those who would then suggest Engineer receive a weapon swap (saw this suggested a few times in the Discord, maybe by Angeels): Engineer doesn't benefit from a weapon swap as much as other classes with more diverse weapons. Engineer's weapons are largely power OR condi. Not both. Why would I run pistol on my power build? Hammer on my condi build? Etc.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon#Weapon_usability_by_professions

Just look at how far Engineer is behind in weapon diversity / weapon skills compared to other classes. For weapon swap to be equal value for Engineer, Anet would have to create AT LEAST 2 new weapons for it right off the bat.

Edited June 25, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[Grand Marshal.4098]

You know what I always wanted to see? An actual full elixir build support engi. Always felt like elixirs on engi were fun and unique *cough unlike necro cough*.

[Rhingeim.3974]

No. I always feel that there are quite a lot of discrepancy between overall QoL moments among the kits. Taking into account trait lines that supports them, engineer always looks quite bloated for me. Like that mechanist simplified this. 

[santenal.1054]

Not wanting to influence the votes or anything, but IMHO people who vote NO are filthy casuals who should go play an other class. 😠

[wasss.1208]

Having kitless builds is nice. I started playing Engineer, because kitless Scrapper was a nice, beginner friendly stepping stone into the profession. But in the end, I started maining Engineer, because I found the kit playstlye incredibly fun. Whenever I am forced to play a non-Engineer spec, I always ask: okay, where are the rest of my skills? (Also, how do you guys can live without superspeed?)

If the devs want to bring our other utilities up to the level, of kits, to make more kitless builds, be my guest. But they'll be fighting an uphill battle. Enginner has less utility types, than others, and a lot of our utilities need a rework, for years. And then, we would end up with a bunch of powercrept skills, like Shift Signet. Teleport, boonshare, conditioncleanse, stunbreak, on one button.

And if they decide to nerf kits, to force in the kitless playstyle, then we become an <insert any other non-Elemenetalist profession here>, without a weapon swap. Why would we keep playing Engineer then, when there is <insert any other non-Elemenetalist profession here> out there?

tl;dr: having kitless builds is nice, buffing utilities to be on par with kits will lead to problems, nerfing kits would lead to engi losing its charm.

[Quench.7091]

I love kits. They should revisit them. One issue that I see is that most of the kits are jack-of-all trades and master-of-none. It's why we see so many of the same kits across a wide variety of builds. They all have around two things that people want to use, but then the rest of the buttons are kind of useless until they equip a different stat set. I believe that if kits were specialized into either condi or power, not both, that we could see people enjoying kits a little more.

[santenal.1054]

3 hours ago, Quench.7091 said:

I love kits. They should revisit them. One issue that I see is that most of the kits are jack-of-all trades and master-of-none. It's why we see so many of the same kits across a wide variety of builds. They all have around two things that people want to use, but then the rest of the buttons are kind of useless until they equip a different stat set. I believe that if kits were specialized into either condi or power, not both, that we could see people enjoying kits a little more.

I disagree, a kit should be  usefull to both power and condi builds, this results in the most amount of viable builds (currently only grenade kit is (damage wise)(edit: with shrapnel) good for both power, hybrid and condi builds) all other kits need to be buffed in one or both of the damage types. if  done right, power damage can benefit condi builds and condi damage can benefit power builds. (think of mace #2 and grenade kit#2)

Edited June 26, 2022 by santenal.1054

[Matoro.9708]

Yes, but I think mortar kit in particular needs a cosmetic revamp. It's cosmetic, but it's also why I don't play mechanist. The golem looks awful.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

4 hours ago, santenal.1054 said:

With the recent revelations of an anet dev thinking that most engineers dont like playing with engineering kits, voice your opinion. 

 

Can I have a link for that claim ? Not that I dont trust you but that is quite a bold statement considering kits along with tool belt skill, are what makes the identity of the class

 

As for my preferences, I should tell a bit of story.

 

When I first started playing this game, I didnt know what class to play.,people told me guardian which I picked and played but it didnt really suit me and it was slow. I could pick warrior or any other mage but they didnt felt good enough for me as a main. But then I looked at engineer which is a bit of a strange class when I compare it to other class. And my friend told me the engineer has a flamethrower and that is when I knew engineer would be my main. For some people it would sound quite dumb to be attracted by mere flamethrower and grenade in a game where Elementalist can do just that but stronger (lore wise ofc) but that's why I picked the class, because it is able to stand his ground using his own creation .

 

Now gameplay wise, kits allow the engineer to have access to more than just 3 land weapon (on core) and more than 1 weapon underwater. Some kit can be a bit of a pain to use it (looking at you grenade kit) but they are definitely good and I dont want Anet to mess with that considering this is arguably the only reliable tool for an engineer to deal some form of consistent damage.

Elixir are good at buffing yourself but that's it. Turret are trash and should definitely get a rework but it wont happens because Anet fear all those AFK turret only player will return (even though Necro pet master is still unchanged and those that work just fine as well). Tools are situationnal but I dont think this is a bad think. Engineer weapons arent enough to deal serious damage. Which leaves us with kits.

 

I am not sorry to say all player who plays engineer but hates kits or want kits to be removed should play something else. I know a lot of players got interested in engineer after EoD because Mechanist and I should be happy to see more people playing the "dead class" I like, however people have to understand this is a part of what makes an engineer and engineer. What if someone says "I like playing elementalist but I hate  switching betweens elements" ? what if someone says "I like playing ranger but I dont like the pet" . 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869

[draxynnic.3719]

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that engineer should be balanced in favour of kit-based playstyles, but it certainly shouldn't be intentionally balanced away from them. Engineer is largely designed around kits, having at least one or two should always be a solid choice. I'm not sure that the playstyle of having three or four kits and only using a couple of skills from each kit is ideal, but there are better ways to approach that. Kitless should be viable, to be sure, but if they're intentionally making kits obsolete... well, there are plenty of professions without kits.

That said, I'm not going to turn down buffs to core weapons, although pistol probably needed it more...

[Quench.7091]

1 hour ago, santenal.1054 said:

I disagree, a kit should be  usefull to both power and condi builds, this results in the most amount of viable builds (currently only grenade kit is (damage wise) good for both power, hybrid and condi builds) all other kits need to be buffed in one or both of the damage types. if  done right, power damage can benefit condi builds and condi damage can benefit power builds. (think of mace #2 and grenade kit#2)

Flamethrower, bomb, and grenade kits all have this hybrid setup going for them. This reduces the maximum number of viable abilities at our disposal at a given time, by filling skill slots with unnecessary wrong choices, and increases the frequency of when we change between kits. A lot of complaints about the profession seem to be tied to those last two. I'm a bit curious what a specialized power or condition kit would feel like.

[santenal.1054]

19 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

Flamethrower, bomb, and grenade kits all have this hybrid setup going for them. This reduces the maximum number of viable abilities at our disposal at a given time, by filling skill slots with unnecessary wrong choices, and increases the frequency of when we change between kits. A lot of complaints about the profession seem to be tied to those last two. I'm a bit curious what a specialized power or condition kit would feel like.

Im always talking about WVW so forgive me for not making this clear.

I forgot bomb kit has power damage on big ol'bomb in PVE, it doesn't in WVW (the 3 sec fuse makes it pretty useless anyway) and the melee range auto attack with 1 sec fuse time isn't going to kill many enemies, Flamethrower has no apply and forget power damage so I dont consider that a power engineering kit (flamejet spammer builds are a niche and require a heavy investment of traits/utilities) I know many players consider this a power kit, I consider this a condi focused kit (not going to argue about it, untraited it is useless for power builds against enemies that fight back).

Edited June 26, 2022 by santenal.1054

[santenal.1054]

2 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

Can I have a link for that claim ? Not that I dont trust you but that is quite a bold statement considering kits along with tool belt skill, are what makes the identity of the class

 

Currently there is alot of censorship going on. 😉

Edited June 26, 2022 by santenal.1054

[lovemghool.7613]

yes I like having at least one kit. 
gives me the roleplay and fantasy feel of the class I guess

[pninak.1069]

I like kits and the way they can combo. I usually run with up to 3 kits. mech also has up to 3 kits for support, but don't have experience with it. condi mech hardly uses kits and to me it felt like smth was missing to I switched back to holo. as for wvw I enjoyed the long range mortar kit, but usually just play pve with option for wvw for daily achievements only.

[Gajex.2386]

Had a really hard time getting used to one kit only and signets at first. So few buttons to press for just the same results? Weird feeling.

But now I'm somewhat okay with it, even if I still miss my flamethrower occasionally. Successfully devolved, I guess.

[Coolster.2536]

I like kits and usually run at least one in my Engineer builds; however, I don't like how much better they are than almost every other utility skill. In fact, they feel so mandatory to use that I would rather Kits be our Profession Mechanic rather than the Toolbelt skills. Turrets, Gadgets, and Elixirs are practically dead in PvE, and only select ones are used in PvP or WvW. 

 

I will say that the animations for a lot of the kits are boring, which make them feel boring to play. Med Kit, Elixir Gun, and Tool Kit have okay animations for their skills, but Bomb Kit, Grenade Kit, and Mortar Kit use the exact same animation for all their skills and those animations are not particularly fun to look at either (Mortar Kit is probably fine using the same animation, but that doesn't make it not boring). I don't care for Flamethrower's animations either, but I know some people like feeling like a pyromaniac with Flamethrower autos, so I guess it's fine. An important aspect of every weapon is the spectacle (animation, VFX, SFX) of using the weapon, and the spectacle of some of the kits isn't very compelling IMO.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Coolster.2536
a word

[Xerxir.1574]

Engi main since 2013 and i love the weaponkit-playstyle.

I played core power engi during the dungeon meta with 2-4 kits,  condi core-engi during HoT-raids with  4 kits.

And i love and play my rifle power holo with 2-3 kits since PoF-beta in fractals(during the power-meta) and all raidwings.

Just to name some builds with multiple kits. ( My pvp/wvw build tend to less kits)

 

I enjoy the access to so many skills at the same time and the possible combinations kits and the toolbelt provide .

Would i like an updated look of mortar and co. ? YES 100%.

[Ausar.9542]

I like kits

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Playing Engineer without kits is about as interesting as playing Warrior (until that patch obviously) and ignoring the existence of banners or playing FB without mantras. You can do it, does work somehow. But you lose versatility, damage and one of the main selling points of the Engineer class in general.

Not really happy about that data reveal. I feel screwed and do not really want to write anything class related anymore on these boards, because they literally do not care. They do as they please and believe in what ever they want, no matter how far their expectations reach from reality. If that developer in charge has never seen an Engineer who enjoys using kits, they have never set foot into any real map. I mean, the Flame Thrower is basically the iconic GW2 experience most people connect with the Engineer. 

EDIT: removed the rant about mechanist. I know you guys love it so much. No matter how broken it is.

The game turns more and more into the opposite of what GW2 used to be. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[mov.1246]

I love to play engi because of kits. everytime i play my nec or guard i am relatively fast bored by the playstyle. I love to use 3 or 4 kits in a build and rotating.

Everybody who voted "no" in this poll, go play other classes. Sorry to say that but kits are a major role in all engineer builds and everytime i read something like "i want to play engi, but i dont want to use kits" my heart is bleeding.

Have you ever seen somebody ask "i want to play necro, but i dont want to use shroud" or "i want to play ele, but i dont want to use attunements" or "i want to play guard, but i dont want to use virtues".... could extend such an absurdity to all classes, kits are just a major mechanic or engineer playstyle.

Edited June 26, 2022 by mov.1246

[Alcatraznc.3869]

9 hours ago, santenal.1054 said:

Currently there is alot of censorship going on. 😉

 

This is something from last year(at least regarding our topic), I dont know if they changed their mind in between. Reading some of the discussion, I do agree with making other skill more relevant so that you have alternative to kits but....hum.....I have to wonder if the person asking the question ever met an engineer ingame ? With the clear lack of weapon I am pretty sure he must have met players using at least one kit. 

 

I will not repeat myself, I've made it clear that kit can be improved but shouldnt be removed or nerf. But if Anet offers alternative to kits in form of strong DPS / utility skill, I will not be against either.

 

Thanks for the link 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, mov.1246 said:

Have you ever seen somebody ask "i want to play necro, but i dont want to use shroud" or "i want to play ele, but i dont want to use attunements" or "i want to play guard, but i dont want to use virtues".... could extend such an absurdity to all classes, kits are just a major mechanic or engineer playstyle.

Unironically, yes. Scourge basically is a necro that doesn't use shroud in the traditional sense (sure, one of the scourge abilities is called a shroud, but it doesn't replace your bar like the others do). There are commonly complaints about elementalist being forced to play piano - tempest is partially an answer to this by rewarding a slower rate of attunement-swapping, and trading a couple of attunement swaps for a weaponswap is a common request for an elementalist elite specialisation. While just ignoring the virtues and benefiting from the passives has been a viable way to play some guardian builds since release - somebody even recently came up with a build operating on that principle with firebrand.

I'd also note that people might well be attracted to engineer for reasons other than being attracted to the playstyle that has become the "proper" way to play engineer.

However, this sort of thing can be catered for by elite specialisations and builds focusing on other playstyles, rather than by deliberately pushing the playstyle enjoyed by current players into obsolescence.