Why not Give Quickness to Berserker and Alacrity to Bladesworn?

[Bunny.9834]

Give the Quickness to Berserker and give Alacrity to Bladesworn. How? Here's a suggestion. 

 

Berserker: PVE

Fatal Frenzy

- Now grants 1 quickness to allies when you critically hit. Interval 2 seconds. Radius 360. 

Blood Roar

- While in Berserk Mode, Fatal Frenzy Quickness duration is doubled.  

 

Bladesworn: PVE 

Immortal Dragon -> Auspicious Dragon 

- Now converts ammo into alacrity to nearby allies. Healing or giving allies barrier grants alacrity. 

- Ammo into alacrity duration = 2s. 

- Healing/Barrier Alacrity Duration: 2s. 

- Healing/Barrier Alacrity Interval: 2s. 

- Target: 5, Radius: 360

- This would also synergize well shouts. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ferus.3165]

almost a good idea but e.g. for berserker the quickness should not come from a minor trait. You should have to pick a grandmaster trait for that. Simply replace this with the eternal champion trait (useless trait anyway) and that way you can pick power/condi dps or support. That way dps zerker could still be buffed to reasonable levels and support berserker would still deal mediocre dps while giving party quickness. Too bad anet devs don't read these forum posts.

[Kodama.6453]

7 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

Now grants 1 quickness to allies when you critically hit. Interval 2 seconds. Radius 360. 

They specifically nerfed catalyst, because 3 of them were able to provide quickness for their subsquad with no investion into it like bonus boon duration, utility skills, etc.

And now you are suggesting here that 2 berserkers should be able to provide perma quickness for their subsquad, just for taking berserker. No utility skill investment needed, you can run full berserker, you need 0 boon duration, no trait investment needed either.

This doesn't work. It is just repeating the same thing catalyst was already nerfed for. Anet wants you to have to invest into quickness by using specific weapons/utility skills/traits.

I don't disagree with the general idea to spread quickness and alacrity over different elite specs. The fact that core warrior currently gets quickness means that the class will never be able to share alacrity, which I see as an issue. Putting quickness on an elite spec would help here, so another elite spec is allowed to give alacrity. But this is definitely the wrong way to do it, people have to think of another way.

Maybe quickness share could get tied to rage skills through a grandmaster trait, for example.

[Kayberz.5346]

Or, why not give either or both to spellbreaker so that spellbreaker actually has an identity in pve

[Mesket.5728]

Why not give dps specs very good dps and keep support for the time they actually decides to make a support spec?

This chimera they built with quickness, might, heal but nothing working well with each other is terrible. Very rookie gsme design and it shows a desperate attempt to comply with an angry audience.

[oscuro.9720]

Good ideas. I’m going to focus on Berserker rn.

People are nitpicking over numbers, but the general ideas are pretty interesting. As far as minor vs major trait, minor traits are what really define trait lines. I don’t think fatal frenzy being on a minor is a problem personally (though I do agree OPs numbers+concept could be pretty busted).

 

To further refine the idea, I would restructure it to something like this;

 

Fatal Frenzy; when in berserker mode, grant 1s of quickness to nearby allies when critically striking a foe (3s ICD)

 

Eternal Champion; Fatal Frenzy’s effect now applies outside of berserker mode. 
 

This creates an appropriate trade off between added damage vs quick uptime (may not be relevant in pve but would be more relevant in pvp/wvw), limits the base quickness access to berserker mode, and doesn’t provide for the same 100% uptime from 1 berserker problem you could quickly run into. 
 

How do you feel about this?

Edited July 1, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[Puck.3697]

 

- Imho. banners need to be merged into shouts. the concept in 2022 we're still manually moving a Post to different places Instead of actually playing the game is insane, Outdated. Clunky and Entirely beneath Design standards of today.

- Berserker should have atleast the ability to give itself Quickness. its built on the concept of Flurries of attacks.. it seems weird, a Ability that makes u Attack faster wouldnt be something inherit to the proffession.

- If we're looking at boon Speccs.. i dunno why u'd target bladesworn and berserker... given Spellbreaker has 0 role in PvE Content, and wouldnt be a brilliant move to introduce one. simply via making Meditations Apply alacrity + Might.

- Banners, if going to remain in concept, should be made a Elite Kit skill. Which Replaces your utility slots with Banners. which u can actively Put down to give Barrier, ur F1 ability changes while in Banner Kit to Intervene, Which allows u to Zoom to a Banner providing Stability and protection to 5 man. no pulse. Just flat Barrier quantity. put it on a Balanced CD so the Warrior can just cast the ability again to put it in a different spot.

- Shoutsworn needs to die in SPVP and Spellbreaker needs to become the focused SPVP Specc again. Im sorry, but its More fun and Tbh the amount of people that either refuse to use bladesworn or actively want SPB back kinda proves the community wants it to be this way. I dont understand why  its So important to push so hard on this.. even when the proffessions community Wants something completely different.

- Berserker and bladesworn, filling the exact same roles, and both being Intended as Power roles again is incredibly weird, maybe we should see some buffs and changes surrounding berserkes Condi options ( Not deleting its Power options ) and we could maybe see some changes and buffs to longbow to Support a Condi Berserker build? could be cool to see a Sword+Torch / Longbow Warrior condi build.

- Giving Warrior core Quickness. isnt great it should likely be moved to a Elite (Spellbreaker being the ideal one) its going to cause larger issues down the line.. and prolly double down on this entire "No warrior elite gets Support. cuz banner already accessible" Nonsense.

blade sworn warrior. can already nail down 37k DPS While outputting 37% Quickness (i think its somewhere around there).. ur Already repeating the same thing u just nerfed on catalyst with a different proffession.

 

[Ferus.3165]

7 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

They specifically nerfed catalyst, because 3 of them were able to provide quickness for their subsquad with no investion into it like bonus boon duration, utility skills, etc.

And now you are suggesting here that 2 berserkers should be able to provide perma quickness for their subsquad, just for taking berserker. No utility skill investment needed, you can run full berserker, you need 0 boon duration, no trait investment needed either.

This doesn't work. It is just repeating the same thing catalyst was already nerfed for. Anet wants you to have to invest into quickness by using specific weapons/utility skills/traits.

I don't disagree with the general idea to spread quickness and alacrity over different elite specs. The fact that core warrior currently gets quickness means that the class will never be able to share alacrity, which I see as an issue. Putting quickness on an elite spec would help here, so another elite spec is allowed to give alacrity. But this is definitely the wrong way to do it, people have to think of another way.

Maybe quickness share could get tied to rage skills through a grandmaster trait, for example.

catalyst was nerfed because it was able to deal 46k+ dps and provide quickness aswell. Neither berserker would be capable of such dps nor is any other quickness providing class. Also there would be an easy fix to berserker dealing to much dmg as a quickness provider. Just read my post above yours.

[Bunny.9834]

7 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Or, why not give either or both to spellbreaker so that spellbreaker actually has an identity in pve

So the reason why I chose the two over Spellbreaker is it kinda makes more sense thematically. 

Berserker is the QDPS option because of the playstyle. It's somewhat similar to Harbinger (except Harbinger, you just enter Shroud and you simply just pulsate quickness.) The goal of the conditional quickness using critical chance gives you flexibility of how you wanna play the Quickness Berserker. This goes for both picking the other different GM traits for either power dps, condi dps. This also is more forgiving gear wise because you don't have to just pick Diviner in order to maintain quickness. You can do Assassin or Rampager to boost your crit chance and still maintain quickness uptime. Or you can just do Berserker or Grieving stat  and use signet of fury and food/utility to boost your precision. 

Bladesworn makes sense to me to use for Alacrity because of the mechanical synergy it has with shouts and what my vision is for the alacrity generation. You have your dragon trigger as the main alacrity generator and you have the heals as your minor alacrity generator in between dragon trigger. You do this through shouts or warhorn. OR If they rework Banners to also give Barrier when traited. 

Spellbreaker doesn't have a lot of mechanics to play with for generating boons. Full Counter just doesn't lend itself as good boon generator because it's so situational. 

 

[Arewn.2368]

Idk spellbreaker makes a lot more sense as a quickness support spec to me. Both thematically and mechanically.

Plus it's really missing a role.

The theme of Berserker is overwhelmingly damage focused. I think it makes the most sense for it to simply have a condi and a power dps build. No support.

Alacrity is a whole new discussion that I'm not even going to touch.

 

Spellbreaker could have a trait which applies quickness to allies when they apply slow to an enemy. And maybe add quickness to a meditation as well.

[Loboling.5293]

I think spellbreaker with alacrity (and slows) and bladesworn with quickness makes more sense (with a trait that makes charging gunsaber faster with quickness). Berserker should be the damage spec, both condi and power. As far as I can tell, it needs to be doing about 37-40kdps to be viable, and the support options should be doing between 30-35kdps. 

[Suyheuti.1732]

On 7/1/2022 at 4:29 PM, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

Give the Quickness to Berserker and give Alacrity to Bladesworn. 

 

 

 

 

You forgot to add something. 

"Erase spellbreaker from the game completely. It has no identity after all, anet doesnt care, why would I?" 

 

Now it is done

[Xaylin.1860]

While I understand the sentiment, Warrior is rather unlikely to get (group) Alacrity on any e-Spec because Quickness was added to core. ANet doesn't want a spec to provide both to the group.

However, I could see +x% Quickness duration somewhere in Berserker to complement core and flatten the stat slope a bit. 

Now, Spellbreaker on the other hand will probably remain PvP focussed unless ANet does a more thorough trait rework. The only low hanging fruit would be pDPS with Might but that's not really a role in high demand.

[Kayberz.5346]

For me personally without getting into the specifics i would want a general rework of berserker and spellbreaker to give them a more defined identity and purpose.

 

I think bladesworn works perfectly fine as is being the power dps elite spec.

 

For berserker i think they should just double down on the condi aspect of it, the weapon they get is torch and the entire theme of the spec is a raging flaming warrior. They reworked a lot of berserker in the past to accommodate power builds back in HoT but with there now being 3(with more to come) elite specs i think they should solidify berserkers identity as THE condi warrior spec. Add burning to every primal burst, make some traits that proc burn/bleeding on crits, keep the same general playstyle as power berserker allowing you to use things like axe/axe  and greatsword if you want but make the main source of damage come from primal burst and trait proced conditions. Similar to condi virtuoso 

 

Spellbreaker should be reworked to be an offensive power support spec, rework meditations to add quickness and or alacrity and possibly make grandmaster traits that change fullcounter to give quick/alac on proc. Possibly having the ability to prematurely "trigger" full counter without being hit to reliably apply these boons without needing to be hit but then adding more damage/cc to fullcounter if you trigger it by blocking an attack the way it works now. Basically working like other blocks you can cancel early for a lesser effect or get a stronger effect if you actually block attacks.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Bunny.9834]

3 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

While I understand the sentiment, Warrior is rather unlikely to get (group) Alacrity on any e-Spec because Quickness was added to core. ANet doesn't want a spec to provide both to the group.

However, I could see +x% Quickness duration somewhere in Berserker to complement core and flatten the stat slope a bit. 

 

Adding quickness to core was a big mistake and also I feel like it's lazy design. (This also goes for Ranger Spirits). 

Right now the direction their trying to do is all over the place with roles and incredible imbalance. 

Bladesworn and Berserker have always been damage dealers but lacks utilities.  

 

As for Spellbreaker... this problem child needs something else. A great suggestion would something that goes the line of what @kroof.5468 suggest with Taunt and Tanking. A proper tank for hard encounters would totally give a lot of tank specs a role. 
Especially those encounters that randomly picks a target (purple orb on your head). I know it's a whole different topic but GW2 has always been missing this component. 

[oscuro.9720]

1 hour ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

Adding quickness to core was a big mistake and also I feel like it's lazy design. (This also goes for Ranger Spirits). 

Right now the direction their trying to do is all over the place with roles and incredible imbalance. 

Bladesworn and Berserker have always been damage dealers but lacks utilities.  

 

As for Spellbreaker... this problem child needs something else. A great suggestion would something that goes the line of what @kroof.5468 suggest with Taunt and Tanking. A proper tank for hard encounters would totally give a lot of tank specs a role. 
Especially those encounters that randomly picks a target (purple orb on your head). I know it's a whole different topic but GW2 has always been missing this component. 

I would argue that spell shouldn’t be balanced/altered for high end pve. While it’s focus on boon strip and flexibility may not be great in PvE, it’s potential (and previous ability) in competitive modes is extremely high. I don’t think forcing every spec to have a place in high level pve is necessary provided the spec is useful elsewhere. 

[Kayberz.5346]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I would argue that spell shouldn’t be balanced/altered for high end pve. While it’s focus on boon strip and flexibility may not be great in PvE, it’s potential (and previous ability) in competitive modes is extremely high. I don’t think forcing every spec to have a place in high level pve is necessary provided the spec is useful elsewhere. 

Try making that argument to ranger players about untamed and see how they respond 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[oscuro.9720]

4 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Try making that argument to ranger players about untamed and see how they respond 

I would if I understood anything about untamed, but seeing as I’ve seen maybe 2 isn’t he last 4 months, and out of my 15 characters none are rangers, I literally could not make that argument 😅

 

But I will stand by that argument considering I play FAR more in competitive modes than I do in pve, and spell breaker is SO close to being viable, it just needs some baby tweaks to be a solid C to B tier class imo. (Specifically; revenge counter transfer conditions and does a raw damage value instead of condi copy and damage % mod, 100 blades does half way respectable damage, MBT 2 might stacks, and rework of top GM trait). God I love spell breaker. No other class or spec comes close to the level of enjoyment of gameplay in competitive modes 🙂 

[Xaylin.1860]

15 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

Adding quickness to core was a big mistake and also I feel like it's lazy design. (This also goes for Ranger Spirits). 

Right now the direction their trying to do is all over the place with roles and incredible imbalance. 

Banner changes were lazy. Adding Quickness and Alacrity to core not necessarily. If it is a design decision that Rangers will never gain group Quickness via e-spec and vice versa for Warrior, this is perfectly fine. If this is not their intent, then it is indeed a total mess.

 

 

15 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

As for Spellbreaker... this problem child needs something else. A great suggestion would something that goes the line of what @kroof.5468 suggest with Taunt and Tanking. A proper tank for hard encounters would totally give a lot of tank specs a role. 

I like Kroofs general thoughts regarding Taunts and tanking. I also think that this is something Defense could generally play into. Tanking aside, the other roles of Spellbreaker are clearly pDamage and Boon hate. The damage part probably needs a buff. But people will have make their peace with the latter just being unappealing in PvE. The same applies to Untamed. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Xaylin.1860

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Hey,  can I have resistance instead of quickness on berserker? Thanks. 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 7/2/2022 at 3:53 PM, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

 

Spellbreaker doesn't have a lot of mechanics to play with for generating boons. Full Counter just doesn't lend itself as good boon generator because it's so situational. 

 

Then don't link it to Full Counter. Meditations are barely if ever used in any mode apart from the elite, maybe they could be the basis of a boon support build.

 

On 7/3/2022 at 5:24 AM, oscuro.9720 said:

I would argue that spell shouldn’t be balanced/altered for high end pve. While it’s focus on boon strip and flexibility may not be great in PvE, it’s potential (and previous ability) in competitive modes is extremely high. I don’t think forcing every spec to have a place in high level pve is necessary provided the spec is useful elsewhere. 

In a game where competitive and PvE balance is split, there's no reason they can't buff up spellbreaker (and untamed) to something that has a place in high end PvE.

Especially since 'designed for PvP' specs generally get nerfed down to the same level as everyone else (or below) anyway.