Rifle and Longbow Rework..

[Dante.1508]

Please give Warriors a viable ranged option.. I don't care how you do it but please do it anet.. Every other class has a somewhat passable ranged option.. Warriors do not. At least make them in line with Engi rifle and Ranger Longbow.. Not this slow useless design they have now.

 

Why did they even give Warriors these weapons if they didn't want anyone using them.

[Super Hayes.6890]

My gunflame build is still somewhat viable in PvE. Even I am forced to admit, however, I prefer other classes for range now *dismounts horse, takes off white armor and drops his now useless banner* Not gonna white knight this one lol.

[oscuro.9720]

Bow rework: 

 

Auto Attack: Increase projectile speed, increase separation of timing between arrows. First arrow applies bleed, second arrow applies torment. If both arrows hit, gain swiftness (2s)

 

Fan of Fire: Double the number of arrows launched (6 instead of 3, cone size remains the same)

 

Arcing Arrow: 4 stacks of burn for 7 seconds on impact. Increase projectile speed by 20%.

 

Skill 4: This ones fine.

 

Skill 5: Heavy Bolt: Fire an arrow that knocks back foes and applies bleed (line based aoe, pierces). 
 

Burst skill: Applies fear on impact based on adrenaline level (1s per bar of adrenaline). 
 

Thoughts? 
 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[bhaldor.9837]

The crappy after cast and pre-cast delay on longbow make it feel horrible. compare it to ranger longbow which feels snappy. 

A simple QOL change even would be great

[Logos.3042]

We do not need this balance team touching Longbow.

[oscuro.9720]

29 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

We do not need this balance team touching Longbow.

I am a masochist and want this balance teams hands to touch warrior all over. I want to see what it would be like. Team chaos, ride or die.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The main thing Core weapons suffer from across many classes is not having any identity. In the Elite Specs, all weapons have a very specific purpose, and the skills are all designed consistently, but for example with Core Warrior Longbow it tries to be a power weapon when its really a condition weapon, so it has this mixed identity.

 

What this causes is intense inefficiency: Some skills do conditions, others don't. So you can't "really" use it as a condi weapon except as a backup for when you absolutely need ranged.

 

Until they go back and update all Core weapons to be more consistent, nothing will change. If you look at the Ranger weapons their only real problem was lack of damage (now fixed for mainhands), because they mostly have a consistent identity, which is what Warrior weapons lack.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Mungrul.9358]

5 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The main thing Core weapons suffer from across many classes is not having any identity. In the Elite Specs, all weapons have a very specific purpose, and the skills are all designed consistently, but for example with Core Warrior Longbow it tries to be a power weapon when its really a condition weapon, so it has this mixed identity.

I think this comes from the fact that on release, ANet wanted players to spec a little bit of everything instead of specialising into traditional MMO roles.

That also explains the hodge-podge that is the Arms trait line, and to some extent, why ANet dropped the extra 5% crit in to that line.

 

To be honest, there's part of me that thinks that's not such a bad decision after all when considered solely inside the bubble that is Warrior.

 

The problem comes when you take other professions into account, who get the same benefits with no trade off.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@Jzaku.9765's 

Has some great rifle ideas imo and would work great! 

As for longbow, between regular brainstorming people do in the forums, it has been discussed that perhaps going for a more condition (cover condis) route may benefit the weapon more! 

I sure don't mind it's piwer damage, but rifle out to fill that gap if reworked. 

[captrowdy.9561]

This is the the thing that bothers me most about warrior. WVW has turned into range bombs so I have to just sit there waiting for a chance to go in. Everyone else is getting bags. Not to mention being able to tag in pve events. Turn rifle into a rocket launcher. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

5 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

This is the the thing that bothers me most about warrior. WVW has turned into range bombs so I have to just sit there waiting for a chance to go in. Everyone else is getting bags. Not to mention being able to tag in pve events. Turn rifle into a rocket launcher. 

Or the BFG from Doom! 

[oscuro.9720]

10 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

This is the the thing that bothers me most about warrior. WVW has turned into range bombs so I have to just sit there waiting for a chance to go in. Everyone else is getting bags. Not to mention being able to tag in pve events. Turn rifle into a rocket launcher. 

Oooh, rocket launcher, me like. Actually, I like the idea of the warrior shooting a howitzer instead of a normal rifle. Something like;

 

Auto attack: Artillery Shell:

Fire a large explosive shell that deals damage and explodes on impact 

Secondary damage: 50% initial damage, initial damage is the same as current rifle AA.

explosion radius: 150

Explosion applies vulnerability

 

Volley:

now fires stupid large artillery shells that pierce and explode on impact with target. Explosions apply vulnerability. If this skills strikes a vulnerable foe, gain might.

Remains an ammo skill

Explosion damage: 50% of strike damage, strike damage remains the same per bullet.

Now fires 3 shots instead of 5, cast time reduced from 2 1/2 seconds to 1 second.

 

Explosive shell becomes Precision Strike:

Fire a high speed artillery shell that deals very high single target damage.

Damage: same as a 1 bar kill shot

Slows movement speed 

Cast time: 3/4s

Applies Cripple

Remains an ammo skill

 

Brutal Shot becomes Controlled Recoil:

Fire a shell into the ground in front of you, causing an explosion that immobilizes foes and launches you backwards.

Range: 450 cone AoE.

Evade happens on key press.

Self knock back: 450 range

 

Rifle Butt becomes Point Blank:

Detonate a shell immediately in front of you, knocking back foes in range. Knocking back a foe grants quickness (2s)

Range: 300 range cone AoE

Cast time: 1/2s

 

Burst skill: Danger Close

Fire a barrage of artillery shells into the air that descend in a quick, high damage area bombardment. (They land all at once rather than being staggered like ele’s meteor storm) 

Strikes grant might and apply vulnerability to foes. 

Number of shells fired per bar of adrenaline: 5

Radius: 240

 

Thoughts?

Edit: then have warrior fire everything as a hip shot like engi did before, except for precision shot. I feel like it would fit thematically with firing a giant howitzer cannon 🙂 

Edited July 4, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[Dante.1508]

On 7/3/2022 at 11:32 AM, oscuro.9720 said:

Bow rework: 

 

Auto Attack: Increase projectile speed, increase separation of timing between arrows. First arrow applies bleed, second arrow applies torment. If both arrows hit, gain swiftness (2s)

 

Fan of Fire: Double the number of arrows launched (6 instead of 3, cone size remains the same)

 

Arcing Arrow: 4 stacks of burn for 7 seconds on impact. Increase projectile speed by 20%.

 

Skill 4: This ones fine.

 

Skill 5: Heavy Bolt: Fire an arrow that knocks back foes and applies bleed (line based aoe, pierces). 
 

Burst skill: Applies fear on impact based on adrenaline level (1s per bar of adrenaline). 
 

Thoughts? 
 

 

  

17 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Jzaku.9765's 

Has some great rifle ideas imo and would work great! 

As for longbow, between regular brainstorming people do in the forums, it has been discussed that perhaps going for a more condition (cover condis) route may benefit the weapon more! 

I sure don't mind it's piwer damage, but rifle out to fill that gap if reworked. 

• See this is why i believe players should be helping in line with the devs.. great ideas.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Logos.3042]

9 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

  

• See this is why i believe players should be helping in line with the devs.. great ideas.

Since when has Anet ever implimented any written out player suggestions?  At best they say "Players want a banner rework" then they DO change it, but make it worse because they dont put in the effort required to make it fun, only fast for a fix.

 

Yes, these ideas are certainly improvements; No, this balance team will never impliment anything like this.

***

What I think is reasonable but that they will never invest the time to do:

Longbow should go with a fire-archer theme, as it distinguishes itself from Ranger longbow this way.  Warrior longbow is more of a seige-mentality archer using fire to destroy enemies.  Damaging Conditions should be kept to bleeding and burning, but a better mix.  

LB 1 = burning applied on auto by default (ie, remove Discipline trait b/c it's in the wrong trait line for condi anyway). 

LB 2 = as mentioned by Oscuro, just increase the number of projectiles in the same cone... match it to Ranger Shortbow poison spread shot... I think it is 5.

LB 3 = This needs to be faster!!! and ground targetted aoe that should give a smoke/dark combo field.  I would roll LB 4 into this and apply aoe pulsing blind.  This would be better to be more of a CC instead of a damage skill, so reduce coefficient if needed when considering teh whole LB kit.  4 or 5 second Smoke/Dark field and 2 charges.  Adjust CD upwards if needed.  

LB 4 = I'd love to see a ground targeted burning shot, but not a aoe fire field.  ie, Make this targeted like Great Sword 3 [whirlwind attack].  Have it do a line shot effect, sort of like Mace 5 [Tremor] that applies 2 stacks of burning

LB 5 = I'd leave this alone.  I like the immobilize.  Would like to see it do more break-bar damage.

LB finisher = I actually love Combustive Shot.  It is my favorite skill in the game.  The animation is stellar; The combo field is good.  Everything about it is really nice.  May need to be faster on animation & / or speed of projectile, but I would not change the mechanics of this.  

[captrowdy.9561]

I just tried the engi rifle. Dear lord. If they just put half the effort into warrior rifle we would be fine 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

15 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

Since when has Anet ever implimented any written out player suggestions?  At best they say "Players want a banner rework" then they DO change it, but make it worse because they dont put in the effort required to make it fun, only fast for a fix.

 

Yes, these ideas are certainly improvements; No, this balance team will never impliment anything like this.

***

What I think is reasonable but that they will never invest the time to do:

Longbow should go with a fire-archer theme, as it distinguishes itself from Ranger longbow this way.  Warrior longbow is more of a seige-mentality archer using fire to destroy enemies.  Damaging Conditions should be kept to bleeding and burning, but a better mix.  

LB 1 = burning applied on auto by default (ie, remove Discipline trait b/c it's in the wrong trait line for condi anyway). 

LB 2 = as mentioned by Oscuro, just increase the number of projectiles in the same cone... match it to Ranger Shortbow poison spread shot... I think it is 5.

LB 3 = This needs to be faster!!! and ground targetted aoe that should give a smoke/dark combo field.  I would roll LB 4 into this and apply aoe pulsing blind.  This would be better to be more of a CC instead of a damage skill, so reduce coefficient if needed when considering teh whole LB kit.  4 or 5 second Smoke/Dark field and 2 charges.  Adjust CD upwards if needed.  

LB 4 = I'd love to see a ground targeted burning shot, but not a aoe fire field.  ie, Make this targeted like Great Sword 3 [whirlwind attack].  Have it do a line shot effect, sort of like Mace 5 [Tremor] that applies 2 stacks of burning

LB 5 = I'd leave this alone.  I like the immobilize.  Would like to see it do more break-bar damage.

LB finisher = I actually love Combustive Shot.  It is my favorite skill in the game.  The animation is stellar; The combo field is good.  Everything about it is really nice.  May need to be faster on animation & / or speed of projectile, but I would not change the mechanics of this. 

Some good ideas here.

 

Personally, I think simply adding burning to LB autos at baseline (let crack shot double the burning duration) would go a long way toward improving viability.

 

Combustive shot NEEDS to pulse every second (like virtually every other field in the game....) rather than every 3s.

 

LB3 is fine mechanically (altho I wish the projectile were faster), but it needs to apply condis of some kind, preferably cover condis like weakness, vuln, and cripple. The blast finisher is otherwise a good compliment to combustive shot/scorched earth. 

[Logos.3042]

46 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Some good ideas here.

 

Personally, I think simply adding burning to LB autos at baseline (let crack shot double the burning duration) would go a long way toward improving viability.

 

Combustive shot NEEDS to pulse every second (like virtually every other field in the game....) rather than every 3s.

 

LB3 is fine mechanically (altho I wish the projectile were faster), but it needs to apply condis of some kind, preferably cover condis like weakness, vuln, and cripple. The blast finisher is otherwise a good compliment to combustive shot/scorched earth. 

You are correct on the Pulsing... this is an issue that would improve it without make any crazy mechanical changes.

[Infinity.2876]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:32 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

Bow rework: 

 

Auto Attack: Increase projectile speed, increase separation of timing between arrows. First arrow applies bleed, second arrow applies torment. If both arrows hit, gain swiftness (2s)

 

Fan of Fire: Double the number of arrows launched (6 instead of 3, cone size remains the same)

 

Arcing Arrow: 4 stacks of burn for 7 seconds on impact. Increase projectile speed by 20%.

 

Skill 4: This ones fine.

 

Skill 5: Heavy Bolt: Fire an arrow that knocks back foes and applies bleed (line based aoe, pierces). 
 

Burst skill: Applies fear on impact based on adrenaline level (1s per bar of adrenaline). 
 

Thoughts? 
 

 

Great ideas.

 

I'd prefer more damage on burst instead of cc

[Infinity.2876]

19 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Oooh, rocket launcher, me like. Actually, I like the idea of the warrior shooting a howitzer instead of a normal rifle. Something like;

 

Auto attack: Artillery Shell:

Fire a large explosive shell that deals damage and explodes on impact 

Secondary damage: 50% initial damage, initial damage is the same as current rifle AA.

explosion radius: 150

Explosion applies vulnerability

 

Volley:

now fires stupid large artillery shells that pierce and explode on impact with target. Explosions apply vulnerability. If this skills strikes a vulnerable foe, gain might.

Remains an ammo skill

Explosion damage: 50% of strike damage, strike damage remains the same per bullet.

Now fires 3 shots instead of 5, cast time reduced from 2 1/2 seconds to 1 second.

 

Explosive shell becomes Precision Strike:

Fire a high speed artillery shell that deals very high single target damage.

Damage: same as a 1 bar kill shot

Slows movement speed 

Cast time: 3/4s

Applies Cripple

Remains an ammo skill

 

Brutal Shot becomes Controlled Recoil:

Fire a shell into the ground in front of you, causing an explosion that immobilizes foes and launches you backwards.

Range: 450 cone AoE.

Evade happens on key press.

Self knock back: 450 range

 

Rifle Butt becomes Point Blank:

Detonate a shell immediately in front of you, knocking back foes in range. Knocking back a foe grants quickness (2s)

Range: 300 range cone AoE

Cast time: 1/2s

 

Burst skill: Danger Close

Fire a barrage of artillery shells into the air that descend in a quick, high damage area bombardment. (They land all at once rather than being staggered like ele’s meteor storm) 

Strikes grant might and apply vulnerability to foes. 

Number of shells fired per bar of adrenaline: 5

Radius: 240

 

Thoughts?

Edit: then have warrior fire everything as a hip shot like engi did before, except for precision shot. I feel like it would fit thematically with firing a giant howitzer cannon 🙂 

I would switch volley with artillery shell

[oscuro.9720]

3 hours ago, Infinity.2876 said:

I would switch volley with artillery shell

Artillery shell is the auto attack. You want the auto to be a 3 round burst? Just clarifying. 🙂

 

If this is the case, I would disagree personally. The  concept of this volley is to fire the same projectile as the auto attack (has explosions), but in a 3 round piercing burst that still explodes when hitting the target. It’s an augmented version of the auto attack basically, which is why I would personally keep the AA how it is. Also volley is a 2 ammo charge skill, so it can be fired in succession.

[Dante.1508]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:52 PM, Logos.3042 said:

Since when has Anet ever implimented any written out player suggestions?  At best they say "Players want a banner rework" then they DO change it, but make it worse because they dont put in the effort required to make it fun, only fast for a fix.

 

Yes, these ideas are certainly improvements; No, this balance team will never impliment anything like this.

***

What I think is reasonable but that they will never invest the time to do:

Longbow should go with a fire-archer theme, as it distinguishes itself from Ranger longbow this way.  Warrior longbow is more of a seige-mentality archer using fire to destroy enemies.  Damaging Conditions should be kept to bleeding and burning, but a better mix.  

LB 1 = burning applied on auto by default (ie, remove Discipline trait b/c it's in the wrong trait line for condi anyway). 

LB 2 = as mentioned by Oscuro, just increase the number of projectiles in the same cone... match it to Ranger Shortbow poison spread shot... I think it is 5.

LB 3 = This needs to be faster!!! and ground targetted aoe that should give a smoke/dark combo field.  I would roll LB 4 into this and apply aoe pulsing blind.  This would be better to be more of a CC instead of a damage skill, so reduce coefficient if needed when considering teh whole LB kit.  4 or 5 second Smoke/Dark field and 2 charges.  Adjust CD upwards if needed.  

LB 4 = I'd love to see a ground targeted burning shot, but not a aoe fire field.  ie, Make this targeted like Great Sword 3 [whirlwind attack].  Have it do a line shot effect, sort of like Mace 5 [Tremor] that applies 2 stacks of burning

LB 5 = I'd leave this alone.  I like the immobilize.  Would like to see it do more break-bar damage.

LB finisher = I actually love Combustive Shot.  It is my favorite skill in the game.  The animation is stellar; The combo field is good.  Everything about it is really nice.  May need to be faster on animation & / or speed of projectile, but I would not change the mechanics of this.  

Which is why warriors and rangers are in the state they are now..

On 7/5/2022 at 12:18 AM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Some good ideas here.

 

Personally, I think simply adding burning to LB autos at baseline (let crack shot double the burning duration) would go a long way toward improving viability.

 

Combustive shot NEEDS to pulse every second (like virtually every other field in the game....) rather than every 3s.

 

LB3 is fine mechanically (altho I wish the projectile were faster), but it needs to apply condis of some kind, preferably cover condis like weakness, vuln, and cripple. The blast finisher is otherwise a good compliment to combustive shot/scorched earth. 

I like these ideas as well. it would make LB far better, i agree on the speed up of fire rate they are warriors they can pull a bow string back.. i'd have felt better if Warrior Long bow ranged had been a crossbow. seems more warrior style.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Grand Marshal.4098]

9 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Which is why warriors and rangers are in the state they are now..

I like these ideas as well. it would make LB far better, i agree on the speed up of fire rate they are warriors they can pull a bow string back.. i'd have felt better if Warrior Long bow ranged had been a crossbow. seems more warrior style.

You know, I'd take a Shotbow/Crossbow condi spec focused on rapid fire shots and some cover condis. Odds are they will screw up expac 4 if it ever comes out and I will laugh that I no longer play the game. 

[Dante.1508]

Just now, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

You know, I'd take a Shotbow/Crossbow condi spec focused on rapid fire shots and some cover condis. Odds are they will screw up expac 4 if it ever comes out and I will laugh that I no longer play the game. 

I have that feeling myself, honestly after EoD and these last "balance" changes my fun in game is waning..