Anet u want Bladesworn to be played?

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 7/11/2022 at 7:52 AM, nderim.7463 said:

Then pls let it be kittening moveable in Dragon Trigger State finally, literally NO ONE cares about the damage/support u deliver if u can't use your dodges nor ur movement properly.
At least let us able to dodge without break DTS because as it is right now, it will stay extremly disengaging to play it especially in harder content.
In my opinion we just arrived a point where u gotta accept that is not about "getting the hang on it" anymore, it is a MAJOR design Failure because movement and dodges are a MAJOR selling point for many Players since the very beginning untill now (who came from wow know what I mean).

Theres a second solution which should look like this explained in short terms: "meanwhile ur in Dragonstate, u become an unmove/break/stopable object." along with Protection and maybe some taunt mecanics which were recently discussed in the Warrior section (REALLY huge  and nice ideas there btw).

This goes of course with the expectation that u bring the Banner mess back alright, otherwise its all nonsense.

With this being said, have nice start into the week 😎

Right you are, OP. I expect the "getting the hang of it" excuse to fall away as the months go by. If people still can't "get the hang of it", guess what? It's a design problem.

[nderim.7463]

On 7/14/2022 at 7:41 PM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Right you are, OP. I expect the "getting the hang of it" excuse to fall away as the months go by. If people still can't "get the hang of it", guess what? It's a design problem.

yea I wrote a proper answer 2 days ago but it got deleted/reported or so, however man all I can say is that I just can't wait for the steam release.. lets kittening go 🤡

[Grand Marshal.4098]

35 minutes ago, nderim.7463 said:

yea I wrote a proper answer 2 days ago but it got deleted/reported or so, however man all I can say is that I just can't wait for the steam release.. lets kittening go 🤡

*Cracks knuckles*

*Firmly places hands on keyboard on steam reviews*

"Here. We. Go." 

😂😎

[Lonecap.4105]

Unfortunately Bladesworn is gonna cause issues now because of shoutsworn, for some annoying reason the devs keep buffing shout coefficients and making this disgusting build even more broken. So right now, Bladesworn sustain needs nerfed, but every other Warrior spec needs sustain buffed. My hope that they can achieve this is nonexistent.

 

EDIT: PvP context

Edited July 17, 2022 by ProverbsofHell.2307

[Jzaku.9765]

10 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Unfortunately Bladesworn is gonna cause issues now because of shoutsworn, for some annoying reason the devs keep buffing shout coefficients and making this disgusting build even more broken. So right now, Bladesworn sustain needs nerfed, but every other Warrior spec needs sustain buffed. My hope that they can achieve this is nonexistent.

 

EDIT: PvP context

It's Tactical Reload creating this toxic balance environment in Warrior where Bladesworn makes Shouts usable, and since Shouts are Warrior's current meta sustain option - all Warrior builds without access to TR has garbage Shouts. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

10 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

It's Tactical Reload creating this toxic balance environment in Warrior where Bladesworn makes Shouts usable, and since Shouts are Warrior's current meta sustain option - all Warrior builds without access to TR has garbage Shouts. 

I sure hope they tweak defense at some point. The reward for heal on burdt landing via Adrenal Health is a very healthy interaction and needs to be revisited. 

We can't seriously rely on the support line for self-sustain and not the proper solo line. 

I'd say the same issue is now appearing with the awful interaction Salvation seems to have on Vindi. And how Retribution was the way to go but as all EoD broken sustain specs, they somehow end up abusing these support lines somehow to their benefit while maintaining respectable damage. 

Defense needs a rework NOW and Tactical Reload needs it's functionality revisited. Not more shout ammo recharge. 

 

[Lonecap.4105]

11 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

It's Tactical Reload creating this toxic balance environment in Warrior where Bladesworn makes Shouts usable, and since Shouts are Warrior's current meta sustain option - all Warrior builds without access to TR has garbage Shouts. 

 

Even without Tactical Reload, shouts are stronger personal sustain than defense tree, it's pretty dumb.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

28 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

 

Even without Tactical Reload, shouts are stronger personal sustain than defense tree, it's pretty dumb.

Ehhh... Sometimes. On bladesworn, shouts >defense absolutely. But the key interaction there is the synergy of FGJ with both MMR and Vigorous Shouts. Vigorous Shouts by itself is merely OK sustain. Defense isn't great, either, but some builds, like condizerker, get a ton of value from the reflects from shield master, passive healing with adrenal healing, and condi cleanse/adrenaline gained of cleansing ire. 

 

Edit: to be clear, I am NOT saying Defense is in a good spot; everything sucks apart from the traits I mentioned, especially the 2 300s CD traits. It's just that a few of it's traits really are pretty good and they can be leveraged well in certain circumstances. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

If adrenal health and cleansing ire were granted on burst use rather than hit Defense would be much better than it is, especially if cleansing ire prioritizes blind and weakness.

 

Defy Pain and Last Stand still need reworks though.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

43 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If adrenal health and cleansing ire were granted on burst use rather than hit Defense would be much better than it is, especially if cleansing ire prioritizes blind and weakness.

 

Defy Pain and Last Stand still need reworks though.

Agreed. 

 

Rousing resilience, armored attack, dogged March, and cull the weak all underperform as well and need to be buffed so there is more than one viable way to use the trait line 

[Logos.3042]

On 7/11/2022 at 9:35 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

This does not change anything about his post ... What he said was true; BsW requires a TON more thought and engagement to play it successfully. That's why it's NOT played by the masses. 

I think that is very speculative to say that is the reason why it is not played by the masses.  Another equally good answer would be because it isnt fun.  A third answer would be because warriors have changed to professions with support specs, because they were hoping for that.  There are many other answers than "it is more thought requiring".  

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Logos.3042 said:

I think that is very speculative to say that is the reason why it is not played by the masses.  Another equally good answer would be because it isnt fun.  A third answer would be because warriors have changed to professions with support specs, because they were hoping for that.  There are many other answers than "it is more thought requiring".  

Except I'm not saying it's THE reason. I'm saying it's likely a significant reason. 

... and BTW, your reason it's 'not fun' is ALSO as speculative as 'it's hard to play effectively' ... so check yourself there.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[JTGuevara.9018]

11 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I sure hope they tweak defense at some point. The reward for heal on burdt landing via Adrenal Health is a very healthy interaction and needs to be revisited. 

We can't seriously rely on the support line for self-sustain and not the proper solo line. 

I'd say the same issue is now appearing with the awful interaction Salvation seems to have on Vindi. And how Retribution was the way to go but as all EoD broken sustain specs, they somehow end up abusing these support lines somehow to their benefit while maintaining respectable damage. 

Defense needs a rework NOW and Tactical Reload needs it's functionality revisited. Not more shout ammo recharge. 

 

And yet some people called it "overpowered"! I, unfortunately, was leaning in that direction back then when Adrenal Health was running roughshod over players. Turns out, it was fair all along.

...and thus it was nerfed...

But no...us warriors can never have nice things, can we?

Edited July 18, 2022 by JTGuevara.9018
add

[Logos.3042]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except I'm not saying it's THE reason. I'm saying it's likely a significant reason. 

... and BTW, your reason it's 'not fun' is ALSO as speculative as 'it's hard to play effectively' ... so check yourself there.

Any are equally plausible... my point is yours is a guess... just like the ones I listed...

[Obtena.7952]

24 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

Any are equally plausible... my point is yours is a guess... just like the ones I listed...

The bottomline here is that you post doesn't really change what I'm saying in this thread. I mean, if you want to call it a guess, OK. It's not a guess to say that people don't choose BsW because of it's effectiveness as a DPS spec, especially if performance is their criteria for that choice. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[nderim.7463]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The bottomline here is that you post doesn't really change what I'm saying in this thread. I mean, if you want to call it a guess, OK. It's not a guess to say that people don't choose BsW because of it's effectiveness as a DPS spec, especially if performance is their criteria for that choice. 

Ok, my last try to make this Problem as visual as possible for you. Maybe it was a bad timing for a post like this because this is legit a problem outside of the whole core warrior problem bubble, which deserves a own treatment.

Bladesworn isn't used in "many" circumstances and this for "diverse" reasons without even guessing, because their literal facts. Let's imagine we havent had the disastrous patch and Banners etc. still function, what was the world looking like pre patch.

Q: Is Warrior good ?

A: Warrior= Banners= GOOD 

Q: Which spec is usable? or what does anyspec do ?

A: Spellbreaker= KEKW
     Bladesworn=  High Damage but really static, bad cc, so it can't be used in "many" areas as efficent as
     Berzerk       =  Good Damage, less then above but way more "diverse", better CC aswell

A: Is this a guess?

Q: NO because their facts proven by players over time.

A: Are there still players playing rather BsW than Bzk in certain areas, and if so doing even good or better ?

Q: Yes, maybe, we have some stats but we can only guess whats fun for who.

So the only serious problem Bladesworn has before 28th June was that he struggles being as efficent as he possibly could be, just because he can't keep up with the Boss/Mechanic and have for e.g. to Dragon Trigger: Boost instead of DT: Force, or maybe even missed it completly. Boost doing btw 20% less dmg then Force, and since DT doing about 50-60% of your whole dmg, you arent allowed to do "many" failures". 

With this in mind, we can arguably SAY, not guessing here, BsW isn't as "diverse" as Bzk is right now



Diverse, Many, why hes marking those 2 words the whole post ?

Because thats the whole POINT of this thread. All of the 3 Warrior Specs doing the same kitten (mediocre dmg mostly) and have such niche abilities that they cant be used anywhere. And since Spellbreaker didn't get touched since pretty much release we can't even count it as a whole usable Spec so whats left is talking about real solutions, EASY solutions.


Now the main Question, What would be a solution for BsW?

Take away some of the contras like the staticness e.g and keep letting him dish out the dmg hes already doing, with that change it should look like this:

BsW = High Dmg, low CC
Bzk   = Good Dmg, good CC


Warriors have had to play Berzerk for waaaaayyyyyy to long, got already dissapointed with Spellbreaker, and now this ? a Spec that u pull out every now and then as if it were a super special old timer Ferrari, or better a F1 Racer, being nuts on a bench and specific roads but cant do kitten offroads. Like cmon, what we REALLY need is getting rid of this pingeonholded thinking. 

When u smell kitten but u cant see it, well guess what, theres probably kitten around u, YOUR GUESS gonna be maybe right, even tho ur only guessing so please for the sake of all warriors, WARRIOR is not ok now NO MATTER the spec, dont let anet think that WARRIOR is in a HEALTHY state even for a second. They have to focus this right now.
 

Edited July 18, 2022 by nderim.7463
delete some spacebars

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, nderim.7463 said:

Ok, my last try to make this Problem as visual as possible for you. Maybe it was a bad timing for a post like this because this is legit a problem outside of the whole core warrior problem bubble, which deserves a own treatment.

Bladesworn isn't used in "many" circumstances and this for "diverse" reasons without even guessing, because their literal facts. 
 

I don't need this mansplained to me so you can go patronize someone else. I never said the reasons people don't play BsW were a guess (in fact, I said they WEREN'T a guess in the post you JUST quoted) ... so you're quoting the WRONG person here. 

As I told you already, we already know that Anet will make changes to the spec if they want people to play it more. At this point, the warrior class in general is in a greater crisis for being in a team role that whatever the problem is with BsW. This BsW issue is low priority until the general warrior teaming issue is addressed.  

Edited July 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

This is getting good. Obtena lost her cool.

[GoguSpatzialu.7948]

On 7/11/2022 at 4:00 PM, Kayberz.5346 said:

I full cleared wings 1-4 in different pugs

Well there's your problem. Friend had tried rifle mech in the first week in pugs, and was consistently number 1 dps (most of the time twice or more damage than next one behind him) with just auto attack and rifle 2. Pugs are a horrible benchmark. And that's not even considering how that DPS figure was reached on snowcrows - with overkill, inflating its actual dps by around 2k.

You are right that a certain kind of player that has good knowledge about the encounter and class will put out good damage. It's also true that other classes will put out the same or better for significantly less effort. That's the real problem. There's no reward for the risk. A power virtuoso or mech can do the similar damage in most situations, with far less risk and effort.

[GoguSpatzialu.7948]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:28 PM, Jzaku.9765 said:

It's Tactical Reload creating this toxic balance environment in Warrior where Bladesworn makes Shouts usable, and since Shouts are Warrior's current meta sustain option - all Warrior builds without access to TR has garbage Shouts. 

Well, clearly, what we need is a nerf to shouts. /s

[Kayberz.5346]

1 hour ago, GoguSpatzialu.7948 said:

Well there's your problem. Friend had tried rifle mech in the first week in pugs, and was consistently number 1 dps (most of the time twice or more damage than next one behind him) with just auto attack and rifle 2. Pugs are a horrible benchmark. And that's not even considering how that DPS figure was reached on snowcrows - with overkill, inflating its actual dps by around 2k.

You are right that a certain kind of player that has good knowledge about the encounter and class will put out good damage. It's also true that other classes will put out the same or better for significantly less effort. That's the real problem. There's no reward for the risk. A power virtuoso or mech can do the similar damage in most situations, with far less risk and effort.

Its not "my" problem. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[wipeout.3205]

If you could just move in blade stance, even if it was at 25% move speed, it would feel way better to play. Also more in line with a samurai slowly strafing around his opponent before striking. With that change alone I think I would main bladesworn for a long time. Also, let us sheathe the blade, that would be awesome.

[eXruina.4956]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:29 AM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

And yet some people called it "overpowered"! I, unfortunately, was leaning in that direction back then when Adrenal Health was running roughshod over players. Turns out, it was fair all along.

...and thus it was nerfed...

But no...us warriors can never have nice things, can we?

adrenal health was nerfed together with all the healing over time because they were forcibly pushing us towards using the might heal they introduced at the time, as few people were actually using it and majority prefered the old system honestly.

 

then they nerfed might heal and split it between 2 traitlines to force people into both str and tac because they wanted to force people to stop using discipline, they also low-key gutted discipline here and there.

 

what they don't get is warriors need discipline not just for fast hands, warriors need warriors sprint. they hard locked majority of warrior design into melee, power and sustain. and literally were taking all those away giving back very little every time they took something.

 

and the reason why they're buffing shout heals now is because as it was, even combined with the nerfed might heal traits from two traitlines it wasn't enough to put bladesworn on the map in competitive.

 

the changes they introduced to warrior were half baked and they quite literally broke warrior by messing with all the warrior essentials, when in fact all warrior really needed back in the day was a bit of polish.

 

it makes me scratch my head honestly. you don't just up and change a class' gameplay, characters are chosen built made and invested on over years, introducing new enemies and new gameplay mechanics i get, but to break class fundamentals, thats just wrong.

 

if only i was choosing what to play now, or actually no, mid-late PoF, i would never have chosen to play and invest on warrior. the feel is completely different from what it was, in that regard they succeeded, but not in a good way.

Edited September 12, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 7/11/2022 at 12:32 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

If you're having fun in pve that's great and all, but I don't want to have to take bladesworn, struggle against mechanics tailored for raiding, compensate for those mechanics with shout healing, and play an overall more boring rotation just to compete (in pvp/wvw), or have its presence be used as a substitute for balancing the other 75% of the class/ used as a cudgel to silence people who have been asking for QoL for Warrior for years. 

 

I'm no stranger to "limitations make the class fun" but yknow.. maybe let's not bite that bullet too hard this time.  

No. Reject thinking game devs can't be wrong. If a friend/chef/etc asks you "what would you like to eat" and you say "Idk but I sure don't want the bannerslave combo again", there are a bunch of underlying implications about them delivering hot garbage that make it several things, but none of them are solutions. 

 

Dont mind me I'm just admiring my own consistency. 

 

Yes. Good. Like fine wine. 

[Eponet.4829]

On 7/12/2022 at 1:40 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

All good but aren't you losing dps either way? Cause the melee charge attack looked like an important part of the rotation (I saw only 1 benchmark video, maybe I misinterpret). If you reposition with 2 or use the ranged attack, I assume you lost a chunk of dmg by not fully charging and landing 1. And if you delay charging 1 cause you had to dodge, you also lost some dps.

 

You do, but it also has a higher perfect scenario damage than other builds, so it also has a little more extra slack where it can lose a bit while still being competitive.